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#1221 Poison_In_Your_Coffee

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

QUOTE (Dαrkrєrsŧ @ Dec 29 2012, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To hinata that holding his hand was something she desired and how Naruto grab his hand does not mean romantic feelings suddenly popping up on Naruto, only Hinata wanted it.
Chose he could chose?
there was only those two there, and he was going to enter on kyuubi complete mode he would be a troll if he didnt restore hinata's chakra.
It's the same thing with Sai carrying Killer bee, or sakura healing darui.

Kishi chose to have Hinata be there by Naruto's side and he did it for a reason. He also chose her as someone to give Naruto strength. Why not choose to have it be someone else, Sakura, Sai? Kishi was also the one to write Naruto to choose Hinata.
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#1222 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:31 PM

QUOTE (sushi. @ Dec 29 2012, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just found this on tumblr, lol it's just good stuff XD

"Kishimoto has shown us how Naruto behaves around someone he is in love with (goofy gentleman, always asking for dates, blushing, using the fix chan to show his affection) and Naruto does not act that way around Hinata. Yes, unlike girls’ his feelings haven’t been confirmed recently but as the main character of a shounen manga he has many other things that he needs to focus on. He still loves Sakura and doesn’t need to keep bringing up his feelings, the reader already knows that they are there."

I stated this before but i did a more complete.

QUOTE (lololol)
I didn't compare them. Kishi did. In the chapter. Reread it.

Hinata is a Tsundere?
So how about a no.
Hinata loved Naruto since the begining he didnt had to make any effort.

Minato earned Kushina's love by recognition.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 December 2012 - 11:32 PM.

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#1223 PhenixElite

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

QUOTE (MoonStar @ Dec 30 2012, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't compare them. Kishi did. In the chapter. Reread it.

No he didnt!

Pls comapare sakura to kushina and then hinata. OMG. Just look at the recent movie. It cant be more obvious.
I dont know what manga youre reading, but i see no use debating something like that with you.

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#1224 Poison_In_Your_Coffee

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

What is with the Tsundere argument? What does that mean and why it matters?
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#1225 T XD

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

QUOTE (sushi. @ Dec 30 2012, 02:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just found this on tumblr, lol it's just good stuff XD

"Kishimoto has shown us how Naruto behaves around someone he is in love with (goofy gentleman, always asking for dates, blushing, using the fix chan to show his affection) and Naruto does not act that way around Hinata. Yes, unlike girls’ his feelings haven’t been confirmed recently but as the main character of a shounen manga he has many other things that he needs to focus on. He still loves Sakura and doesn’t need to keep bringing up his feelings, the reader already knows that they are there."

Exactly. Naruto doesn't need to sing it all the way through the series. It's just enough how many times he have said and showed already.

Edited by T XD, 29 December 2012 - 11:37 PM.


#1226 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:36 PM

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 29 2012, 08:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What is with the Tsundere argument? What does that mean and why it matters?


Battleshounen?
Hero always end with the tsundere, always end up with the girl he loves since the begining on battleshounens?
Naruto's personality who does not fit with shy girls, his mother and kishimoto's model of family with the female lead being a tsundere.

Even shikamaru's mom is a tsundere.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 December 2012 - 11:37 PM.

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#1227 Destiny

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

Also: I just want to see Sakura do something, fight someone, attempt to bring Neji back.... ANYTHING to show her worth. She is supposed to be our lead heroine and we just kind of see her on the sidelines... Kishi makes me so mad when this happens...

Love is everything.

#1228 Poison_In_Your_Coffee

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE (Dαrkrєrsŧ @ Dec 30 2012, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Battleshounen?
Hero always end with the tsundere, always end up with the girl he loves since the begining on battleshounens?

If Naruto ends up with Hinata: rule broken. I understand looking at the tropes of the genre for clues but Kishi is not bound by the tropes and is free to break model with this.
The stars are fire.

#1229 MoonStar

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:39 PM

Are you guys misunderstanding me or something? Kishi did a direct comparison with Kushina and Hinata here. I don't agree with it but that's what he did. I always saw Kushina and Sakura as similar.

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#1230 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:39 PM

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 29 2012, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Naruto ends up with Hinata: rule broken. I understand looking at the tropes of the genre for clues but Kishi is not bound by the tropes and is free to break model with this.

Not bound by tropes.

Take HxH, Dragon ball Z and so many other shounens, even the "naruto friendship love" comes from other shounens you must be kidding right?
Even kishimoto interviewed the author of HxH.

All the Naruto concept character is a copy of goku and so many other shounen heroes, you must be innocent if you think that Naruto is a original shounen that innovates.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 December 2012 - 11:40 PM.

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#1231 Poison_In_Your_Coffee

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:40 PM

QUOTE (MoonStar @ Dec 29 2012, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are you guys misunderstanding me or something? Kishi did a direct comparison with Kushina and Hinata here. I don't agree with it but that's what he did. I always saw Kushina and Sakura as similar.

This has been pointed out earlier in this very thread. You can see the results of that. tongue.gif

QUOTE (Dαrkrєrsŧ @ Dec 29 2012, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not bound by tropes.

Take HxH, Dragon ball Z and so many other shounens, even the "naruto friendship love" comes from other shounens you must be kidding right?
Even kishimoto interviewed the author of HxH.

All the Naruto concept character is a copy of goku and so many other shounen heroes, you must be innocent if you think that Naruto is a original shounen that innovates.

I must be noticing that Kishi has taken the opportunity to bring Naruto and Hinata closer, and that he writes Naruto, not Dragon Ball Z. You know what would be an innovating thing to do? SasuNaru romance. That would be radical. The guy ending up with less shout-y girl is not radical change by any means.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 29 December 2012 - 11:43 PM.

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#1232 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 29 2012, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This has been pointed out earlier in this very thread. You can see the results of that. tongue.gif


I must be noticing that Kishi has taken the opportunity to bring Naruto and Hinata closer, and that he writes Naruto, not Dragon Ball Z.


Hinata's development?




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#1233 Qia

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (sushi. @ Dec 29 2012, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just found this on tumblr, lol it's just good stuff XD

"Kishimoto has shown us how Naruto behaves around someone he is in love with (goofy gentleman, always asking for dates, blushing, using the fix chan to show his affection) and Naruto does not act that way around Hinata. Yes, unlike girls’ his feelings haven’t been confirmed recently but as the main character of a shounen manga he has many other things that he needs to focus on. He still loves Sakura and doesn’t need to keep bringing up his feelings, the reader already knows that they are there."


This face also doesn't come across as "omg I like her" to me: http://img.mangastre...cd41d0670ef.png

So yea it makes sense xD

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#1234 六道仙人

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:43 PM

QUOTE (MoonStar @ Dec 30 2012, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are you guys misunderstanding me or something? Kishi did a direct comparison with Kushina and Hinata here. I don't agree with it but that's what he did. I always saw Kushina and Sakura as similar.


direct comparison how? Through flashback's panel mentioned by Kurama? Because honestly I don't see any comparison with Kushina. If Hinata is Kushina, so Minato is Neji? Forced, too much.

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#1235 T XD

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:44 PM

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 30 2012, 02:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Naruto ends up with Hinata: rule broken. I understand looking at the tropes of the genre for clues but Kishi is not bound by the tropes and is free to break model with this.

?!
It's a manga, he can't make things from the way he wants without taking into consideration its principles. If it were that way, he wouldn't be a mangaka writing a manga !!!

Edited by T XD, 29 December 2012 - 11:47 PM.


#1236 Poison_In_Your_Coffee

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:46 PM

Part One Hinata: *faint*, *is too shy to speak*
Part Two, post-ch 615 Hinata: "Pull yourself together, man!" *slap*
The stars are fire.

#1237 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

QUOTE (Qia @ Dec 29 2012, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This face also doesn't come across as "omg I like her" to me: http://img.mangastre...cd41d0670ef.png

So yea it makes sense xD

The way he holds her hand does not seem a romantic one like.
on the next page.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 December 2012 - 11:48 PM.

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#1238 KnS

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:48 PM

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 29 2012, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't wish to distract with the HP stuff, either, so I won't comment on it. I would recommend, though, reading this page, for instance: http://harrypotter.w...ki/Draco_Malfoy. I know it's a wiki but that article does seem to have at least couple sources to Rowling's interviews and sums up the moments from the books. Draco, well, I don't like him all that much, he is no favourite like Sasuke. I just felt that your characterisations on his character were wrong, or at least very different from mine.

I much prefer to source Rowling herself. For interested parties:

JKR's thoughts on Draco.... --Click here to view--
QUOTE (JK Rowling)
People have been waxing lyrical [in letters] about Draco Malfoy, and I think that's the only time when it stopped amusing me and started almost worrying me. I'm trying to clearly distinguish between Tom Felton, who is a good looking young boy, and Draco, who, whatever he looks like, is not a nice man. It’s a romantic, but unhealthy, and unfortunately all too common delusion of — delusion, there you go — of girls, and you [nods to Melissa] will know this, that they are going to change someone. And that persists through many women's lives, till their death bed, and it is uncomfortable and unhealthy and it actually worried me a little bit, to see young girls swearing undying devotion to this really imperfect character, because there must be an element in there, that "I'd be the one who [changes him]." I mean, I understand the psychology of it, but it is pretty unhealthy. So, a couple of times I have written back, possibly quite sharply, saying [Laughter], "You want to rethink your priorities here."

She could easily have been talking about Sasuke there. This is what makes Sakura and Karin's (and Ino's, for that matter) interest in Sasuke so disturbing. It's unhealthy. As I said, Karin is the only one who has a realistic clue what he's like to live with, and that's why I give her the edge. In my opinion, Sakura understands Sasuke's unsuitability with her mind, but her heart has been unable (so far) to completely connect the dots -- and she desperately needs to elevate herself beyond settling for Sasuke's disinterest.


QUOTE (JK Rowling)
But I thought of Draco as someone who is very capable of compartmentalizing his life and his emotions, and always has done. So he's shut down his pity, enabling him to bully effectively. He's shut down compassion — how else would you become a Death Eater? So he suppresses virtually all of the good side of himself. But then he's playing with the big boys, as the phrase has it, and suddenly, having talked the talk he's asked to walk it for the first time and it is absolutely terrifying. And I think that that is an accurate depiction of how some people fall into that kind of way of life and they realize what they're in for. I felt sorry for Draco. Well, I’ve always known this was coming for Draco, obviously, however nasty he was.

Harry is correct in believing that Draco would not have killed Dumbledore, which I think is clear when he starts to lower his wand, when the matter is taken out of his hands.

This makes it pretty clear -- to me, at least -- that Rowling herself believed Draco to be nasty, and that whatever good qualities he might have had he purposely chose to suppress. My interpretation of her final sentence is that Draco didn't have what it took to kill Dumbledore, not that he resisted out of goodness, and that his inability to do the job meant it fell to Snape to get it done. It left room for Draco to be pitied and slightly less tarnished than if he'd killed Dumbledore.

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 29 2012, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe I should clarify something:

I like morally gray and dark characters. That's why I like Sasuke. I don't like him because he is a sweet misunderstood angel. I like him because he is not. Good guys bore me to death or at best I just don't care. I especially like characters who have serious flaws, yet are not completely evil. Sasuke (or Draco) are not wholly good, but neither is wholly evil. That is interesting, for me. I have no interest in pretending that Sasuke is fluffy-hearted sweetpea who has never wronged anyone; why should I do that when perfect goodness bores me silly? I also like Sakura because she is not perfect. She can be shallow, mean. She has insecurities. Yet, she is a good person at heart. Not perfect in any way, still a gorgeous character.

I get that. Lots of people love the dark and dangerous, morally ambiguous characters. Back to HP for a second, one of my favorite characters was Sirius Black, so yeah, I get it. Likewise, Kakashi is one of my favorites, and he is a clear parallel to Sasuke.

The thing is, I'm really talking about Sasuke's unsuitability for Sakura. He may be an interesting character if you like the brooding, murderous, self-centered, morally challenged types, but I personally don't want that for Sakura. I like her too much. I agree she is imperfect, but in the normal ways that young girls are imperfect. Her imperfections are not on the same planet as Sasuke's.

In my opinion, Naruto is so much better for her in every way, and I think he would spend the rest of his life making her happy. And everything we have been explicitly shown in terms of Naruto's feelings so far suggests that's precisely what he would do if he got the chance. There's been zero evidence that Sasuke has the slightest interest in Sakura's feelings, much less in making her happy. Sakura and Naruto in a healthy, safe, happy relationship would make them both happy, and I won't stop hoping that's exactly what happens.




#1239 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:54 PM

QUOTE (KnS @ Dec 29 2012, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In my opinion, Naruto is so much better for her in every way, and I think he would spend the rest of his life making her happy. And everything we have been explicitly shown in terms of Naruto's feelings so far suggests that's precisely what he would do if he got the chance. There's been zero evidence that Sasuke has the slightest interest in Sakura's feelings, much less in making her happy. Sakura and Naruto in a healthy, safe, happy relationship would make them both happy, and I won't stop hoping that's exactly what happens.


It's better for her because she needs development for it, and her development comes from understanding Naruto which is different than hinata because she was about his Ninja Way, Sakura has her own Ninja Way, she's not someome who grow under the shadow of the main character and neither sasuke she developed based on her own experiences.
And plus the fact she didnt love Naruto since the begining who make things more interesting, the term prize is suitable for NH but not for NS because there's no prize, it's about two people who fully understand each another.

The argument of NH died in the moment that Naruto loves Sakura there's no better ending for the main hero to end up with the girl he loves.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 December 2012 - 11:55 PM.

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#1240 T XD

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:55 PM

QUOTE (Poison_In_Your_Coffee @ Dec 30 2012, 02:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Part One Hinata: *faint*, *is too shy to speak*
Part Two, post-ch 615 Hinata: "Pull yourself together, man!" *slap*

Hinata as a character isn't a tsundere at all. Slapping him for him to wake up is a way for her to begin talking of what she wanted to say.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< A tsundere is the girl you see in my avatar beating the crap out of that guy.




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