3406 replies to this topic

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

He was honest with his brothers he asked for pardon.
And asked for pardon obviously the village and worked his way out to become hokage with his own effort, it's nothing like he accepting Sakura's love this is not being honest

What Gaara did was go from murdering monster to this:

I think Sasuke will be redeemed somehow, but what exactly is that likely to mean? That he will suddenly be sweet and cuddly? That his chakra will suddenly be warm and bright like Naruto's, as opposed to dark, cold, and cruel? That he'll have a song in his heart, a spring in his step, and a kind word for all?

I am going to start to ignore your posts in the future, if this is the level of your comprehension. That lost will surely sting, no?

JK Rowling disagrees with you there. the Malfoys were oportunists who had not so much a change of heart as a realization "their" side was not going to win and that Voldamort was in fact just another evil bastard.

they remain as morally bankrupt as they began

There is no way I'm going to get pulled into correcting your readings of another series as well. One is quite enough, thank you.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 29 December 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

What Gaara did was go from murdering monster to this:

But Gaara didnt had a clear objective he was just letting the things go becoming a monster and losing himself.

Sasuke wants revenge but now after knowing the truth he will might pursue power and wants to change the world but with another beliefs his hatred for the village is still there.
What i'm trying to say is that Sasuke and Gaara were on different levels, Gaara still had his father and his brothers he still had a family his grudge was about the village not accepting him, then he find on Naruto the path he wanted to take.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 December 2012 - 10:36 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

But Gaara didnt had a clear objective he was just letting the things go becoming a monster and losing himself.

Sasuke wants revenge but now after knowing the truth he will might pursue power and wants to change the world but with another beliefs his hatred for the village is still there.
What i'm trying to say is that Sasuke and Gaara were on different levels, Gaara still had his father and his brothers he still had a family his grudge was about the village not accepting him.

Gaara was killing people. For fun. His father pretended to want to kill him, and his siblings feared him because he went about offing people. Gaara is not made into an angel by your excuses. Gaara himself has noted on the similarity between himself and Sasuke.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 29 December 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[luffyq1]

This discussion isn't going anywhere. Who wants pizza?

[KnS]

Kakashi's example is better, Kakashi didnt loved anyone but Obito was special to him, and it didnt prevent him from killing rin, Obito even in that situation would never be capable of killing her, Kakashi didnt hesitated at any moment but he still cried because she was a teammate but it was no sign of true love.
He seemed rin a part of the team and his best friend love interest.

I get your point, and I agree with the purpose of the parallel. The thing at play here is my long-admitted bias toward Kakashi. I consider him a far better person than Sasuke, and one who chose the right path much earlier than Sasuke is going to -- assuming he does.

Well, that's exactly what Gaara did.

Gaara turned toward the light, certainly, but I would hardly describe him as having "a song in his heart, a spring in his step, and a kind word for all." Gaara remains aloof and reticent, even if his heart has been transformed. His focus has changed, but not every element of his personality or the experiences that shaped him.

However, I understand the point you're making. I agree that if/when Sasuke is redeemed, his attitude and behavior will be improved by his change of heart. But as it is with Gaara, I don't expect fundamental aspects of Sasuke's personality to ever change, including those that make him a poor match for Sakura. Just my opinion.

Draco was a good person at heart, though. He had been twisted by his parents' ideologue. This made him both elitistic a**hole who looked down on the poor Weasley family, and a racist. But when Draco was given the chance to act out his hatred for muggleborn and team Harry, he could not do it. He talked the talk but the walk he never walked. Draco was mostly talk. When Sasuke was given the opportunity to act out his hatred, he walked the walk. This, I think, is the key difference in Draco and Sasuke. Sasuke was a good guy too, once upon a time, but he has completely different level on bad guy stuff than Draco. It is also my understanding that Draco and Harry made a sort of peace by the end of the books. The Malfoys also flipped sides and redeemed themselves. They weren't that morally vacant to me.

I don't want to commandeer this thread with HP stuff, but I disagree. More than anything, Draco failed because he lacked courage and conviction, not because he was "a good person at heart." Same with his family. They displayed some contrition at the clutch moment because Narcissa loved her son more than anything, and their side was losing. She gambled to assist Harry, but not because she had an epiphany about Right vs. Wrong. In the end, the Malfoys had no option but to switch sides if they were going to continue on in wizard society.

I'm not surprised in the least that someone who sees the best in Sasuke and champions him would have the same opinion of Draco Malfoy. That's exactly why I used Draco as an example. We'll have to just agree to disagree, and that's cool. I will always, always, ALWAYS choose Naruto over Sasuke, and absolutely when it comes down to who is best for Sakura.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Gaara was killing people. For fun. His father pretended to want to kill him, and his siblings feared him because he went about offing people. Gaara is not made into an angel by your excuses. Gaara himself has noted on the similarity between himself and Sasuke.

He did kill people, when he was a kid it was to defend himself from murder attempts and later he was on the chuunin exam, ofc they did not needed to kill those people but it was not forbidden, and only shows him killing people who clearly had intentions on killing other people, Naruto on part 1 had a dark atmosphere.
But shino actually killed people in that exam and even Sasuke kill those guys from the sound, which already had give up.
Kankuro killed of that guy on the preliminary match, breaking his neck, even Neji tried to kill Naruto on the finals rounds.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 December 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Qia]

There is no way I'm going to get pulled into correcting your readings of another series as well. One is quite enough, thank you.

I don't know if this counts for anything but: Georgina: Did lucius malfoy, and all the other escaped death eaters, go back to azkaban
J.K. Rowling: No, the Malfoys weaseled their way out of trouble (again) due to the fact that they colluded (albeit out of self-interest) with Harry at the end of the battle.

So they really were just opportunists, weren't they? Found that here: http://www.accio-quo...sbury-chat.html

Sorry, just wanted to correct you if I could.

Edited by Qia, 29 December 2012 - 10:51 PM.

[MakeMoneyEatRice]

I'm prepared for the worst. Worst being SasuSaku becoming canon. I can handle NaruHina(even if it's rushed and forced) but SasuSaku is just pitiful.

If it actually becomes canon, I think I'll have a heart attack.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I'm not surprised in the least that someone who sees the best in Sasuke and champions him would have the same opinion of Draco Malfoy. That's exactly why I used Draco as an example. We'll have to just agree to disagree, and that's cool. I will always, always, ALWAYS choose Naruto over Sasuke, and absolutely when it comes down to who is best for Sakura.

I don't wish to distract with the HP stuff, either, so I won't comment on it. I would recommend, though, reading this page, for instance: http://harrypotter.w...ki/Draco_Malfoy. I know it's a wiki but that article does seem to have at least couple sources to Rowling's interviews and sums up the moments from the books. Draco, well, I don't like him all that much, he is no favourite like Sasuke. I just felt that your characterisations on his character were wrong, or at least very different from mine.

Maybe I should clarify something:

I like morally gray and dark characters. That's why I like Sasuke. I don't like him because he is a sweet misunderstood angel. I like him because he is not. Good guys bore me to death or at best I just don't care. I especially like characters who have serious flaws, yet are not completely evil. Sasuke (or Draco) are not wholly good, but neither is wholly evil. That is interesting, for me. I have no interest in pretending that Sasuke is fluffy-hearted sweetpea who has never wronged anyone; why should I do that when perfect goodness bores me silly? I also like Sakura because she is not perfect. She can be shallow, mean. She has insecurities. Yet, she is a good person at heart. Not perfect in any way, still a gorgeous character.

I don't know if this counts for anything but: Georgina: Did lucius malfoy, and all the other escaped death eaters, go back to azkaban
J.K. Rowling: No, the Malfoys weaseled their way out of trouble (again) due to the fact that they colluded (albeit out of self-interest) with Harry at the end of the battle.

So they really were just opportunists, weren't they? Found that here: http://www.accio-quo...sbury-chat.html

Sorry, just wanted to correct you if I could.

No problem. The Malfoys were very snobbish and entitled. They were self-centered and did not turn against Voldy because they suddenly realized their desire to live in harmony with the world. But they did love their family. Unlike Voldy, who could not understand love, the Malfoys did and out of love for their family betrayed Voldy. Draco is different from his parents, though. He could not kill Dumbles in book 6 and protected Harry during book 7 and in this way directly helped to fight against Voldy.

Edit.

If Sasuke had his target at his mercy, would he take the killing shot? Draco did not. Sasuke did it, through a girl who was supposed to be his teammate.

Edit. You know, I'm suprised that you all don't see the obvious parallel between Draco/Dumble at at tower and Sasuke/Danzou/Karin on the bridge.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 29 December 2012 - 11:05 PM.

[Verilance]

There is no way I'm going to get pulled into correcting your readings of another series as well. One is quite enough, thank you.

You don't have to correct my opinion but the authors is a different matter altogether

is it just me or do you have to lay the arrogance that bit thick

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

You don't have to correct my opinion but the authors is a different matter altogether

is it just me or do you have to lay the arrogance that bit thick

Maybe take a look at the article on the wiki? Sorry, that post came across badly.

[MoonStar]

I stopped reading your babbling as soon as I saw that segment. please go back to lurking. KTHXBAI.

My babbling? I don't mind you disagreeing with me but atleast read everything and attempt to make an intelligent response if you want to be taken at face value.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

My babbling? I don't mind you disagreeing with me but atleast read everything and attempt to make an intelligent response if you want to be taken at face value.

You taking in consideration the editor's note and screaming NH canon, on a scene that didnt show naruto reciprocating Hinata's feelings, only Hinata who hold Naruto's hand as a romantic manner, when he just grab it to transfer chakra.

[Destiny]

IT'S NOT OVER UNTIL WE SEE BABIES!

<3 Destiny

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

when he just grab it to transfer chakra.

Hinata mentioning earlier how she intends to be the one holding his hand gives more significance to it than just transferring stuff. The moment goes beyond the handholding as well, Hinata also inspired and encouraged Naruto, who responded by choosing Hinata to be the one on his side by grapping her hand for whatever purposes. Naruto chose Hinata for the tranfer, for the handholding.

In some ways Naruto holding Hinata's hand is similar to if he had kissed Sakura's forehead. The handholding was set up as THE MOMENT by Hinata in 573 when she said that it was her goal. Then Kishi went and made Naruto, wihout any knowing that Hinata desired it, take her hand.

IT'S NOT OVER UNTIL WE SEE BABIES!

<3 Destiny

But I can't wait for 9 months!

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 29 December 2012 - 11:23 PM.

[MoonStar]

You taking in consideration the editor's note and screaming NH canon, on a scene that didnt show naruto reciprocating Hinata's feelings, only Hinata who hold Naruto's hand as a romantic manner, when he just grab it to transfer chakra.

Look, I'm a NS fan just like the rest of you but there are times to realize when you're just in denial. Kishimoto paralleled Kushina to Hinata. Naruto took her hand and said she was always by his side, falsely as it was. It couldn't be anymore NH for if they were to start kissing then and there. Of course this is not gonna convince anyone until the following chapters come and even more NH scenes are piled on.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Hinata mentioning earlier how she intends to be the one holding his hand gives more significance to it than just transferring stuff. The moment goes beyond the handholding as well, Hinata also inspired and encouraged Naruto, who responded by choosing Hinata to be the one on his side by grapping her hand for whatever purposes. Naruto chose Hinata for the tranfer, for the handholding.

To hinata that holding his hand was something she desired and how Naruto grab his hand does not mean romantic feelings suddenly popping up on Naruto, only Hinata wanted it.
Chose he could chose?
there was only those two there, and he was going to enter on kyuubi complete mode he would be a troll if he didnt restore hinata's chakra.
It's the same thing with Sai carrying Killer bee, or sakura healing darui.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 December 2012 - 11:27 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Look, I'm a NS fan just like the rest of you but there are times to realize when you're just in denial. Kishimoto paralleled Kushina to Hinata. Naruto took her hand and said she was always by his side, falsely as it was. It couldn't be anymore NH for if they were to start kissing then and there. Of course this is not gonna convince anyone until the following chapters come and even more NH scenes are piled on.

Sorry dude but if you compare hinata with kushina, then you are in denial.

NOTHING is cannon until the end!!!

[sushi.]

Just found this on tumblr, lol it's just good stuff XD

"Kishimoto has shown us how Naruto behaves around someone he is in love with (goofy gentleman, always asking for dates, blushing, using the fix chan to show his affection) and Naruto does not act that way around Hinata. Yes, unlike girls’ his feelings haven’t been confirmed recently but as the main character of a shounen manga he has many other things that he needs to focus on. He still loves Sakura and doesn’t need to keep bringing up his feelings, the reader already knows that they are there."

[MoonStar]

Sorry dude but if you compare hinata with kushina, then you are in denial.

NOTHING is cannon until the end!!!

I didn't compare them. Kishi did. In the chapter. Reread it.