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The Last: Naruto the Movie: Thread 2 aka The Last retcon: Hinata-sama the movie


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#12081 Raiton

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 05:11 PM

 

Not murder attempts, but death and long distance between you and your beloved one is something very romantic in japanese culture. Love in japanese culture history is very dark and gloomy. 

 

Yes I completely agree with you on this. It's not just because of the shojo atmosphere in that couple (the hot guy with the girl in love) that appeal japanese fandom. As I said it's in their culture to view long distance and mourning/languishing about your beloved one relationship as romantic. 

I have a book that is sort of an encyclopedia about love in japanese culture. So I quiete know about love culture in Japan. That plus all the things I learned at school. 

 

So why did you choose to be a NS shipper? x)


Edited by Raiton, 17 November 2014 - 05:18 PM.

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#12082 Hanabi

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 05:11 PM

still arguing over NS? Jeez... its over. NH is canon nothing can change that fact.Start other mangas.Btw admin plz delete my account.

you choose to ship for the 'who bang who ending' instead of the actual moments in the manga..

 

some choose the other way / others just have fun in shipping.


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#12083 咲耶姫

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 05:15 PM

So why did you chose to be a NS shipper? x)

I'm not japanese. I'm talking about japanese view on love, not mine. 

Though it's not my view on love neither that made me a NS shipper. I choose it because it was the pair that seemed logical to me because of its development. But I won't go any furhter. If I continue I'll create another debate which will lead to a conflict and I don't want that.


Edited by 咲耶姫, 17 November 2014 - 05:21 PM.

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#12084 SuperChief

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 05:18 PM

This fandom should never stop asking questions until we get the answers and closure we need to move on.



#12085 soshi

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 05:20 PM

what love? I still do not understand sasuke did not pay attention at all to sakura not even in the academy.Sakura had some superficial feelings for sasuke (like ino for ex)after all we all have that kind of sentiments when we wher children.I do not understand how could shi fall in love so bad weth sasuke not to mention theat sasuke was not with her so many years.where is the love here?because I'm sure I do not see it. :twitch:



#12086 Ether

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 05:23 PM

I'm not japanese. I'm talking about japanese view on love, not mine. 

Only problem with that is that Sakura had no influence on Sasuke, none at all. He never thought of her as anything other than family. She got no special acknowledgement from him like she always wanted. She didn't have anything to do with him being saved and brought back to the village. So SS fails as even that kind of relationship.

 

One can't just ignore Sasuke's side, it takes two to tango after all. That's why Kishi's assistant should just be quiet about us not understanding, because there was nothing to understand here. It was one sided all the way to the last chapter.



#12087 Catwho

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 05:31 PM

This fandom should never stop asking questions until we get the answers and closure we need to move on.

 

I think this is something we all need to bear in mind until the movie comes out.

 

I can accept 699.  The fact that Sasuke refused Sakura should have been all the closure she needed.  No, she cannot come with him.  It's done as far as Sasuke is concerned. 

 

700 is too dreamlike and too confusing to give us any answers. Only the movie can.  Based on the cover of the CD that's been floating around, two things can happen that explain the way Naruto looks (very uncomfortable):  Sakura rejects him at the start of the movie and Hinata catches him on the rebound OR Hinata confesses and Naruto has to reject her.  

 

Whoever just got rejected, or is about to be rejected, it's going to be a painful scene.  Naruto is not happy.  

 

Until we have the answer to who got rejected WHEN THE MOVIE COMES OUT then I think it is fine for us to continue questioning what we saw in 700 - and more importantly, what dribbles of information that Studio Pierrot has leaked so far. 

 

They will never leak the entire movie plot.  Then no one would go see the movie.  That's why there is all this ambiguity.

 

Bottom line is, I'm not accepting NH until I see Sakura tell Naruto no, to his face.  Which may very well happen in this movie.


Edited by Catwho, 17 November 2014 - 05:33 PM.

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#12088 Raiton

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 05:33 PM

I'm not japanese. I'm talking about japanese view on love, not mine. 

Though it's not my view on love neither that made me a NS shipper. I choose it because it was the pair that seemed logical to me because of its development. But I won't go any furhter. If I continue I'll create another debate which will lead to a conflict and I don't want that.

Ah ok, je vois ce que tu veux dire.  


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#12089 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 05:41 PM

Bottom line is, I'm not accepting NH until I see Sakura tell Naruto no, to his face.  Which may very well happen in this movie.

And just imagine, that they will never interact about whole POAL and etc, just how to save Hanabi.  :zaru:



#12090 Ether

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 06:00 PM

And just imagine, that they will never interact about whole POAL and etc, just how to save Hanabi.  :zaru:

It takes place two years after, so why would they? They just skipped over this inconvenient stuff.

 

Maybe we'll get more "funny" moments of Sakura hitting Naruto, because that's all NS is, right? :wow:

 

Shame on us for thinking there was something meaningful being built up between them.


Edited by Ether, 17 November 2014 - 06:01 PM.


#12091 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 06:02 PM

It takes place two years after, so why would they? They just skipped over this inconvenient stuff.

 

Maybe we'll get more "funny" moments of Sakura hitting Naruto, because that's all NS is, right? :wow:

 

Shame on us for thinking there was something meaningful being built up between them.

No, it's 2 years after war, and we will get nothing. Just to get next year, a movie "Naruto, the last of the last" it will cover blank period between the end of war and the Last, and it will be a story of Hinata  :zaru:



#12092 Catwho

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 06:39 PM

Doesn't mean we won't get flashbacks.  Kishi used those pretty heavily as a narrative device throughout Naruto.


Edited by Catwho, 17 November 2014 - 06:39 PM.

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#12093 rinali24

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 07:38 PM

Only problem with that is that Sakura had no influence on Sasuke, none at all. He never thought of her as anything other than family. She got no special acknowledgement from him like she always wanted. She didn't have anything to do with him being saved and brought back to the village. So SS fails as even that kind of relationship.

 

One can't just ignore Sasuke's side, it takes two to tango after all. That's why Kishi's assistant should just be quiet about us not understanding, because there was nothing to understand here. It was one sided all the way to the last chapter.

 

What're you talking about? Of course Sasuke gave Sakura acknowledgement! That one time when he genjutsu-killed-Sakura... he gave her the consideration of only putting her in a genjutsu rather than actually killing her! He loves her!!!1 That's why he obviously didn't kill her. 

 

/sarcasm


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#12094 Raiton

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 07:42 PM

 

What're you talking about? Of course Sasuke gave Sakura acknowledgement! That one time when he genjutsu-killed-Sakura... he gave her the consideration of only putting her in a genjutsu rather than actually killing her! He loves her!!!1 That's why he obviously didn't kill her. 

 

/sarcasm

I was like  :jawdrop: ...then I saw the  "/sarcasm..." xD


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#12095 Paperman

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 07:45 PM

 

What're you talking about? Of course Sasuke gave Sakura acknowledgement! That one time when he genjutsu-killed-Sakura... he gave her the consideration of only putting her in a genjutsu rather than actually killing her! He loves her!!!1 That's why he obviously didn't kill her. 

 

/sarcasm

 

The sad part is SS fans use the exact argument to justify their ship.

 

Also, I just went to the NH couples page wiki. You know what I saw - the filler moments were more than the cannon moments.

 

Not to mention 'cannon' only documented her love for Naruto.

 

The very fact that the very last movie is about Hinata shows something is very, very wrong.



#12096 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 08:10 PM

The very fact that the very last movie is about Hinata shows something is very, very wrong.

RtN way please.



#12097 Alessa

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 08:14 PM

I am honestly 99,9% convinced that we will get nothing romantic (even tragic and uncomfortable) between Sakura and Naruto.

I am sure that Sakura and Naruto will interact as friends like nothing ever existed between them. I am sure their bond will be portrayed as a very deep friendship which will cover a big portion of development in manga and label it "comradeship" so that we don't riot. Just like that Naruto will seem consistent in his will to protect Sakura and fulfill her wishes.

I think that we will get no NarutoXSakura interactions, because making a rejection scene or any other scene is like showing everyone that Naruto failed, lost or|and gave up. Which is not in their best interest.
I think that we will simply see Naruto not having any kind of attraction towards Sakura and being happy for her and Sasuke.

That way his choice of Hinata would seem honest and natural, like square one choice. I'm sure they will try hard to make it look that way.

I am quite sure that this movie will contain a generic kidnapping plot that for once will result in actual romantic feelings, not just teesing as with all those filler heroines.

At some point Hinata does something or says something that will show her as a truly kind person - something that Naruto thought was Kushina's main distinctive trait. So he will think that he has fouund the girl of his dreams.

We will actually see Naruto's realization that he indeed never knew love and finally can see it in one very special person, who actually was there for him all along. He didn't go towards the first girl who came his way - Sakura (she was the first girl whom he loved), though this won't be shown.
Just like we wished for Sakura to realise that her happiness lies with Naruto, we're gonna see Naruto do that. He will look at Hinata and realize that she is the one who will bring him the happiest future. And he will accept that there is finally one person whom he wants to protect more than anyone else. Those will be his main words, his confession. 

Then we will see a bit of their future together that will be bright and happy unlike the bad portrayal in 700 that was just poorly written, not a lie. We will see Bolt and Himawari, because SP need to promote Naruto's mini-series.

Of course that CD has depressed faces. After all this movie has some tragic things happening with the world about to be destroyed. I am sure it will have some other picture on the other side of the cover. The most important thing is that Naruto and HInata will get through it together.

 

700 might seem a bit odd, but it is not really. Just bad writing. Kishimoto wanted to portray Naruto who has matured and became more cold-blooded like his father. That was the route he chose, because Naruto can't be a kid forever. In Part 2 he was much more mature than in part 1 and the first sketches also implied that Naruto grew up mentally even more. It is very natural that at 30-40 he is the real adult. After all this is what Sakura wanted from him all along, she just expressed author's intentions.

Naruto is not unhappy, but his smiles are just more mature now. He reads a lot of books and does his duties perfectly. Of course he drinks some, but it is not like he has a ton of empty bottles on his desk. It just shows that he is of age now. He also has cups of ramen that are meant to connect his character to whom he was before. Overall there is nothing to suggest that he violates Kushina's orders. He does everything in moderation.

Yes, Konoha seems strange, but it is just bad writing again. In reality the chapter wants to show how far Naruto has advanced. Everyone in this manga struggled for peace and friendship, so how can anyone be surprised that this is what we get in the end. We can't say that this is a bad future, because in reality New York that is behind Konoha is part of Konoha, so the economy blooms and Hokage is actually a very big leader now. He rules abpve those skyscrapers, not just little old Konoha. He is a big man.

Konoha itself is kept as it was because of its historical significance. The most important people live there, it is like a special district for wealthy ones. Of course Hokage's office is there too.

The speed of progress is meant to show how far the world could jump once all old disputes were over. In other words, shinobi wars just held the progress back. Of course it is also done in order to make a new interesting environment for a story about new generation. Because they will act as shinobi, but use high-tech tools.

 

The scene with Bolt is meant to show the parallel, not that Naruto is a bad father. Iruka also handled Naruto very roughly ( if you read chapter one) and he is a father figure to Naruto, you can't say that he handled Naruto wrong. He handled Naruto roughly, because he wanted Naruto to become truly strong. Konohomaru, as mentioned in 700, also did such things, even though he was loved, just wanted people to notice him. So doing pranks is not necessarily the sign of not being loved enough. Itachi also spent much less time with Sasuke than Sasuke wanted, but their relationship was full of love and respect (until some point) and Itachi was portrayed a hero in the end. Also Kishi said in an interview that he wanted to convey a lot of things to his own son through this manga. So he might have finished with such a scene because he himself works all the time and has little space for his family, he wanted his son to understand what responsibility means. We strated with this in chapter 1, so we ended with this as well. It is very conclusive, since Kishi loves parallels. Both Naruto and Konohomaru (2 pranksters) grew up to be great men, so why not take the same route.

 

There is nothing wrong with former shinobi having families and leading normal lives. Yes, this is not what we wanted to see in the last chapter. Yes, we would rather see them kick ass, but the author's decision is just another artistic decision. Though it may be bad, it is not ridiculous. He wanted to portray how everyone matured. And he needed to show a lot of interesting kids, because he made a contract and got his money. 

 

The end is sudden because of the main pairings, but if we consider them just author's decisions, it all makes sense. Everything else makes sense. There are no vivid mistakes and illogical steps. It is not like Naruto is married to Ten Ten. All that has happened was possible, was forshadowed by the end of the war and could be shown like this. Yes, a lot of things were not brought up, but nothing nuclear (not like Naruto didn't become Hokage). We can argue it could have been better, there were more logical options, but it is not like we got something that could not have happened.

 

I am sure we will get to see everyone being badass shinobis in the LAST, which would close the holes in the soft ending.

 

Whew, I got it off my chest. I'm prepared.


Edited by Alessa, 17 November 2014 - 08:34 PM.

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#12098 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 08:37 PM

I am honestly 99,9% convinced that we will get nothing romantic (even tragic and uncomfortable) between Sakura and Naruto.

I am sure that Sakura and Naruto will interact as friends like nothing ever existed between them. I am sure their bond will be portrayed as a very deep friendship which will cover a big portion of development in manga and label it "comradeship" so that we don't riot. Just like that Naruto will seem consistent in his will to protect Sakura and fulfill her wishes.

I think that we will get no NarutoXSakura interactions, because making a rejection scene or any other scene is like showing everyone that Naruto failed, lost or|and gave up. Which is not in their best interest.
I think that we will simply see Naruto not having any kind of attraction towards Sakura and being happy for her and Sasuke.

That way his choice of Hinata would seem honest and natural, like square one choice. I'm sure they will try hard to make it look that way.

I am quite sure that this movie will contain a generic kidnapping plot that for once will result in actual romantic feelings, not just teesing as with all those filler heroines.

At some point Hinata does something or says something that will show her as a truly kind person - something that Naruto thought was Kushina's main distinctive trait. So he will think that he has fouund the girl of his dreams.

We will actually see Naruto's realization that he indeed never knew love and finally can see it in one very special person, who actually was there for him all along. He didn't go towards the first girl who came his way - Sakura (she was the first girl whom he loved), though this won't be shown.
Just like we wished for Sakura to realise that her happiness lies with Naruto, we're gonna see Naruto do that. He will look at Hinata and realize that she is the one who will bring him the happiest future. And he will accept that there is finally one person whom he wants to protect more than anyone else. Those will be his main words, his confession. 

Then we will see a bit of their future together that will be bright and happy unlike the bad portrayal in 700 that was just poorly written, not a lie. We will see Bolt and Himawari, because SP need to promote Naruto's mini-series.

Of course that CD has depressed faces. After all this movie has some tragic things happening with the world about to be destroyed. I am sure it will have some other picture on the other side of the cover. The most important thing is that Naruto and HInata will get through it together.

 

700 might seem a bit odd, but it is not really. Just bad writing. Kishimoto wanted to portray Naruto who has matured and became more cold-blooded like his father. That was the route he chose, because Naruto can't be a kid forever. In Part 2 he was much more mature than in part 1 and the first sketches also implied that Naruto grew up mentally even more. It is very natural that at 30-40 he is the real adult. After all this is what Sakura wanted from him all along, she just expressed author's intentions.

Naruto is not unhappy, but his smiles are just more mature now. He reads a lot of books and does his duties perfectly. Of course he drinks some, but it is not like he has a ton of empty bottles on his desk. It just shows that he is of age now. He also has cups of ramen that are meant to connect his character to whom he was before. Overall there is nothing to suggest that he violates Kushina's orders. He does everything in moderation.

Yes, Konoha seems strange, but it is just bad writing again. In reality the chapter wants to show how far Naruto has advanced. Everyone in this manga struggled for peace and friendship, so how can anyone be surprised that this is what we get in the end. We can't say that this is a bad future, because in reality New York that is behind Konoha is part of Konoha, so the economy blooms and Hokage is actually a very big leader now. He rules abpve those skyscrapers, not just little old Konoha. He is a big man.

Konoha itself if kept as it was because of its historical significance. The most important people live there, it is like a special district for wealthy ones. Of course Hokage's office is there too.

The speed of progress is meant to show how far the world could jump once all old disputes were over. In other words, shinobi wars just held the progress back. Of course it is also done in order to make a new interesting environment for a story about new generation. Because they will act as shinobi, but use high-tech tools.

 

The scene with Bolt is meant to show the parallel, not that Naruto is a bad father. Iruka also handled Naruto very roughly ( if you read chapter one) and he is a father figure to Naruto, you can't say that he handled Naruto wrong. He handled Naruto roughly, because he wanted Naruto to become truly strong. Konohomaru, as mentioned in 700, also did such things, even though he was loved, just wanted people to notice him. So doing pranks is not necessarily the sign of not being loved enough. Itachi also spent much less time with Sasuke than Sasuke wanted, but their relationship was full of love and respect (until some point) and Itachi was portrayed a hero in the end. Also Kishi said in an interview that he wanted to convey a lot of things to his own son through this manga. So he might have finished with such a scene because he himself works all the time and has little space for his family, he wanted his son to understand what responsibility means. We strated with this in chapter 1, so we ended with this as well. It is very conclusive, since Kishi loves parallels. Both Naruto and Konohomaru (2 pranksters) grew up to be great men, so why not take the same route.

 

There is nothing wrong with former shinobi having families and leading normal lives. Yes, this is not what we wanted to see in the last chapter. Yes, we would rather see them kick ass, but the author's decision is just another artistic decision. Though it may be bad, it is not ridiculous. He wanted to portray how everyone matured. And he need to show a lot of interesting kids, because he made a contract and got his money. 

 

The end is sudden because of the main pairings, but if we consider them just author's decisions, it all makes sense. Everything else makes sense. There are no vivid mistakes and illogical steps. It is not like Naruto is married to Ten Ten. All that has happened was possible, was forshadowed by the end of the war and could be shown like this. Yes, a lot of things were not brought up, but nothing nuclear (not like Naruto didn't become Hokage). We can argue it could have been better, there were more logical options, but it is not like we got something that could not have happened.

 

I am sure we will get to see everyone being badass shinobis in the LAST, which would close the holes in the soft ending.

 

Whew, I got it off my chest. I'm prepared.

Ehem...is it you saying people need to stop have faith in NS, or what?

Because there is no reasons aside money to have NH and SS in the end, and we didn't even get something bigger than trailer, and you sounds like "jump out, its burning!". Or this is another time of "People it's over, stop it!"?

Because nobody need that //// here, people knew what they doing, and if they get hurt after movie - so it be.

 

Re-read this...

Some fanfic from NH I think...

True happines is Hinata and etc...LMAO

If you don't like theory thread - just don't go there, but writing an esse on how 110 minutes will destroy Naruto's character to the basis and suddenly he will knew "true love" and his "true feelings to Hinata" that never happend on manga... What is you purpose? No need to justify some bullsh*t of writing, if it happend . Ending was awful, if you like it - good, then why are you here? 


Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 17 November 2014 - 08:52 PM.


#12099 Alessa

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 08:52 PM

Ehem...is it you saying people need to stop have faith in NS, or what?

Because there is no reasons aside money to have NH and SS in the end, and we didn't even get something bigger than trailer, and you sounds like "jump out, its burning!". Or this is another time of "People it's over, stop it!"?

Because nobody need that //// here, people knew what they doing, and if they get hurt after movie - so it be.

Not everything is meant to be a message.

This is not the Chatte's theory thread, it is the LAST thread, pessimistic theories are allowed here. I needed to say what I think because I have nowhere else to say it and no reason not to say it here. People express themselves here. This is just another opinion that is written with more detail than simple "I think it will be an NH movie". So relax. There is no message.

I've reread chapter 700 about 10 times now and it makes perfect sense to me, I can't deny that. I am hurt by it and I wish it never existed, but it does and I know it is real and concludes some plot themes perfectly.

My denial ended 10 minutes ago finally. And I am ready to fully commit myself to creating an alternative ending for myself. I am not saying that even a single other person should follow me, just talking about myself and my own movie theory. After all my reading skills and intellect have failed me once already when I believed in NS...not. Hahahaha, Kishi sold out to SS.


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#12100 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 09:01 PM

I've reread chapter 700 about 10 times now and it makes perfect sense to me, I can't deny that. I am hurt by it and I wish it never existed, but it does and I know it is real and concludes some plot themes perfectly.

My denial ended 10 minutes ago finally. And I am ready to fully commit myself to creating an alternative ending for myself. I am not saying that even a single other person should follow me, just talking about myself and my own movie theory. After all my reading skills and intellect have failed me once already when I believed in NS...not. Hahahaha, Kishi sold out to SS.

Good for you, hope now - you will belive in tweets about Naruto's "faint love" "child crush on Sakura", it's just easyer way for someone. And yes, hopefully just for someone that 700 chapter -  had to make sense. Good luck with not being "in denial".

Actually there is almost everyone here that read those chapters, and accept that they a true, but just to pitiful to be ending for such a good story (even apart of pairings). But nevermind, good for you!


Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 17 November 2014 - 09:02 PM.





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