54216 replies to this topic

[BlueStarSaber]

yeah I noticed that too.

731

the difference is that with One Piece it's completely unrelated to pairings. Sabo is back. Of the 3 brothers Sabo should be the strongest because he set sail first, and he's been with Dragon so we're going to see even more about Luffy's father. And that's only scratching thesurface! So much is happening right now and we're not even at the climax of this arc yet. It's really by far the best chapter of this year without question.

I still consider naruto 631 the best chapter of the year not just for pairing reasons.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I still consider naruto 631 the best chapter of the year not just for pairing reasons.

I see it as the best chapter on their own rights. Now, let's see if I can find one for other series.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 12 December 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[pumyte]

I still consider naruto 631 the best chapter of the year not just for pairing reasons.

In that chapter everything was moving quite fast unlike in recent chapters.

[Shashank95]

Is the Enton the Blaze release ?! And Yes 631 delived a lot of jaws to the floor lol :-P

[Nostradamus]

The reason for Hinata to love Naruto, the poor student is obvious.  It’s because she wants to be like Naruto.

So what I said in my first rant was correct. Hinata "loves" Naruto as one loves a champion, he is all that she could not be.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

So what I said in my first rant was correct. Hinata "loves" Naruto as one loves a champion, he is all that she could not be.

Infatuation - databook 3.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 December 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[咲耶姫]

Infatuation - databook 3.

 I cheked that and the schema doesn't even say infatuation. I think it is 憧れ and that means aspiration, longing or yearning. If it's a verb, it can mean "to be attracted". So you see, it can be both "love" or "admiration", it's funny, because in Hinata"s case it's both at the same time. 

[Nostradamus]

Infatuation - databook 3.

My first rant which I did two years ago or over two years ago is my own analysis of the story. There are somethings in it that are wrong or I over analyzed them but it's still my own analysis.

Edited by Nostradamus, 12 December 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[Luna]

"Never Say Never"


Who would ever thought a guy
Would want a girl like me
Who would ever thought that I
Would fall so easily
Who would ever thought that we
Would finally come to be
I guess they don't know
How much you mean to me
Who would ever thought that they
Would have some words to say
We'll go on anyway
It's alright - it's okay
Take whatever comes our way
Together we will stay
I got three words to say
Never say never

I can't believe they'd stop our happiness
By trying to pull us down with such a mess
Why can't they let us live just like the rest
And keep us out of all this crazy madness
Now when they talk I think it's just a shame
That all they do is sit and think my name
When all that i do mainly
Sit and think about my baby and me

Now baby they can't believe that
You and me are together
That's why they should have never
Never said never
There were times when we thought that
You and me could never be together
That's why we should have never
Never said never

Now there's a lot of talkin' goin' round
About the way me and you are gettin' down
What are they jealous are they hatin' me
I guess they all have their own Ph.Ds
I wish that they would just stop sweatin' me
Stop tryin' to get the best of me
No matter what they say baby
We gotta move on cause we're gonna be happy

We didn't let the thoughts that we had
We didn't let the words that they said
Keep us from the love we now have
Never say never
Simply for me to see when
Never would've been never if allowed
Now that we are together
Never say never

 

 

Since it's dead.....these lyrics come to mind when NS happens. Might make a video with the song when NS happens.  It's like Sakura singing to NS haters.

Edited by Baka chan, 12 December 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[Shadow1275]

 

The only Mangekyo Genjutsu that have been shown are Tsukuyomi and Shusui's mind control genjutsu (forgot it's name).

 

The Mangekyo Sharingan gives you Three new jutsu, and for Sasuke those jutsu are Amaterasu, Enton: Kagutsuchi and Susanoo, Itashi's were Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susanoo and as far as we've been shown Madara's are Tsukuyomi (he used in on Obito) and Susanoo, if Sasuke did know Tsukuyomi way didn't he use it too? and not a basic Sharingan Genjutsu.

 

And for argument's sake lets say that the Mangekyo does enhance Genjutsu, Sasuke has only been shown capable of using basic Sharingan Genjutsu, also if the Mangekyo does enhance the basic Sharingan Genjutsu then in theory Naruto's Senjutsu chakra which enhances your Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Genjutsu, should be able to even out the boost the Mangekyo gives Sasuke.

 

 

Yes Tsukuyomi is a Mangekyo Sharingan Genjutsu but Sasuke lacks a Mangekyo Sharingan Genjutsu, all his Mangekyo Jutsu are Ninjutsu, his only Genjutsu is basic Sharingan Genjutsu.

 

 

My point is that since both Naruto and Itachi were clones there was no reason to try to dispel the Genjutsu

 

 

Actually Kurama's been giving Naruto chakra because it made it easier to break the seal, also in all the times Naruto has been under someone's Genjutsu he was never in a real life threatening situation, it was ether his clone or there was someone nearby that could dispel the Genjutsu for him, and as we saw Kurama has been aware of everything around since being sealed inside him.

 

 

No the seal has been sending Kurama's chakra into Naruto's constantly in a steady stream, it was the Five Pronged Seal that Orochimaru placed on him in the Forest of Death that was causing the mix to be erratic, and Kakashi only said that Kurama's chakra made it difficult for Naruto to control his chakra meaning his inability to do stuff like create a Rasengan without a Shadow Clone, but since Naruto befriended Kurama Naruto has been shown capable of preforming a Rasengan without a Shadow Clone.

 

 

What do you mean about the "why would he not have prevented Sasuke the first time", also the healing has been shown to happen after the fight is over the sole exception being the fight at the battle at the Valley of the End. further more, Naruto has not needed it so much as he doesn't get as many sever injuries anymore.

 

 

But if doesn't prove that eye contact isn't necessary for Sharingan Genjutsu, there are different kinds of Genjutsu that have different requirements, but this does not affect Naruto vs. Sasuke because Sasuke's Genjutsu is Sharingan based, meaning eye contact is required.

 

 

And Chiyo explained that the way to fight the Sharingan is in numbers, and for Naruto he can make it 1,000 to 1 in an instant, in order to keep the real Naruto under Genjutsu, he would have to eliminate all the Shadow Clones, and remember an army of Shadow Clones in Sage Mode was a match for Kurama, and at best Perfect Susanoo is said to be the equal of a Biju and only one clone was capable of tossing around Kurama.

 

 

And yet wasn't Gyuki capable of dispelling Sasuke's Genjutsu cast with a Mangekyo Sharingan?

 

 

Why not Kurama has been shown to do everything Gyuki can do except produce ink.

 

 

But Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi, like I said the Mangekyo grants three Jutsu one form your left eye one form your right eye and one from both eyes, Amaterasu and Enton Kagutsuchi are from his left and right eyes while Susanoo is from both.

 

 

My point is that during the Search for Tsunade arc Naruto almost died and would have if not for Tsunade because Kabuto had landed a lethal blow to Naruto's heart, meaning it is possible to kill Naruto without having to remove Kurama.

 

 

Sasuke doesn't have a Mangekyo Genjutsu.

The only Mangekyo Genjutsu that have been shown are Tsukuyomi and Shusui's mind control genjutsu (forgot it's name).

 

As far as we know. Each person's manifested jutsu is different depending on the caster. However,  Mangekyo Sharingan is not EMS. Itachi's eyes manifested Tsukuyomi. Seeing as Sasuke now posesses his eyes it is very likely that he posesses the same jutsu.

 

The Mangekyo Sharingan gives you Three new jutsu, and for Sasuke those jutsu are Amaterasu, Enton: Kagutsuchi and Susanoo, Itashi's were Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susanoo and as far as we've been shown Madara's are Tsukuyomi (he used in on Obito) and Susanoo, if Sasuke did know Tsukuyomi way didn't he use it too? and not a basic Sharingan Genjutsu.

 

Ah but Sasuke doesn't possess Mangekyo Sharinagan, he possesses EMS. Naturally having both Itachi's and his own eyes he would possess the abilites manifested within them. Notice that ever since he achieved EMS Sasuke's Susanno uses a sword to fight. Besides, as I reasoned last time; When Sasuke and Itachi attack Kabuto their eyes are in Mangekyo mode or in Sasuke's case EMS. These are more powerful forms of sharingan than basic and therefore take a larger toll on the user. Why go into such modes to perform basic sharingan genjutsu? It is a waste of energy.

 

We don't know for sure that you only get 3 types of jutsu from Mangekyo, Itachi only explained the jutsu that he had recieved. It's not impossible to believe that some users of Mangekyo are more talented than others and have more abilities. For example, Obito only had one ability with his Mangekyo which was the creation of dimensional portals. Some Uchiha are more skilled than others.

 

And for argument's sake lets say that the Mangekyo does enhance Genjutsu, Sasuke has only been shown capable of using basic Sharingan Genjutsu, also if the Mangekyo does enhance the basic Sharingan Genjutsu then in theory Naruto's Senjutsu chakra which enhances your Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Genjutsu, should be able to even out the boost the Mangekyo gives Sasuke.

 

Once again I have already shown why this is unlikely. Everytime an Uchiha goes into Mangekyo or EMS mode it is to use Mangekyo techniques. It would be a waste of energy to enter Mangekyo in order to use basic techniques.

 

Senju chakra enhances your chakra output when using said techniques, not resistance. Naruto's senjutsu is useless if he can't keep Sasuke out of his mind.

 

Yes Tsukuyomi is a Mangekyo Sharingan Genjutsu but Sasuke lacks a Mangekyo Sharingan Genjutsu, all his Mangekyo Jutsu are Ninjutsu, his only Genjutsu is basic Sharingan Genjutsu.

 

Already answered this above.

 

My point is that since both Naruto and Itachi were clones there was no reason to try to dispel the Genjutsu

 

I didn't know that they were clones so sure there was no reason for him to dispel the genjutsu. But that doesn't mean he could do it if he had wanted to and it was the real Naruto.

 

Actually Kurama's been giving Naruto chakra because it made it easier to break the seal, also in all the times Naruto has been under someone's Genjutsu he was never in a real life threatening situation, it was ether his clone or there was someone nearby that could dispel the Genjutsu for him, and as we saw Kurama has been aware of everything around since being sealed inside him.

 

This is incorrect. look at the panel I posted again in our last round of debating. Kurama specifically agrees to give Naruto chakra only because he will die if Naruto dies. And as for life-threatening let's look at the genjutsu situations:

 

First Fight with Itachi: Naruto is staring down Itachi who they have reason to believe is threatening them, it doesn't matter how many people there are that is a life-threatening situation. Remember too that Chiyo was rebuked by Kakashi about being able to break Itachi's genjutsu. Cue Naruto getting put under by the genjutsu and you can bet he's scared for his life. As you said Kurama is aware of Naruto's situation, of Itachi's controlling Sharingan, and of the Akatski's goals.

 

Sasuke Altercation: Already explained this one, there were several moments where Kurama could have broken the jutsu as well as Naruto could have attempted to

 

Itachi/Naruto meeting: I guess they were clones so this meeting can't be used as evidence.

 

As you can see Naruto and Kurama have had opportunities to counter genjutsu and failed.

 

What do you mean about the "why would he not have prevented Sasuke the first time", also the healing has been shown to happen after the fight is over the sole exception being the fight at the battle at the Valley of the End. further more, Naruto has not needed it so much as he doesn't get as

many sever injuries anymore.

 

But it is really a process that continues no matter what. Minus his forays into several tailed beast modes, the healing process is always active. It's his own process boosted by the fox chakra. The only reason it is halted in his beast modes is because the boosting chakra is diverted from healing to maintaining the form which further proves my point that the small chakra used for healing causes his flow to be erratic.

 

As for the Sasuke thing, that was referencing the first time Sasuke entered Naruto's subconscious.

 

No the seal has been sending Kurama's chakra into Naruto's constantly in a steady stream, it was the Five Pronged Seal that Orochimaru placed on him in the Forest of Death that was causing the mix to be erratic, and Kakashi only said that Kurama's chakra made it difficult for Naruto to control his chakra meaning his inability to do stuff like create a Rasengan without a Shadow Clone, but since Naruto befriended Kurama Naruto has been shown capable of preforming a Rasengan without a Shadow Clone.

 

But Kakashi did not talk about the seal on Naruto when he was referring to his netwrok. He was merely talking about Naruto's control over his erratic network. In the tree climbing exercise, he had the same problem as well as with the Rasengan. Naruto's network is in no way steady, this is why he has struggled to master basic techniques as quickly as his peers.

 

And Chiyo explained that the way to fight the Sharingan is in numbers, and for Naruto he can make it 1,000 to 1 in an instant, in order to keep the real Naruto under Genjutsu, he would have to eliminate all the Shadow Clones, and remember an army of Shadow Clones in Sage Mode was a match for Kurama, and at best Perfect Susanoo is said to be the equal of a Biju and only one clone was capable of tossing around Kurama.

 

In order to disrupt your own flow or distract the enemy yes, but consider the drawbacks as well. Chakra consumption, split power, and the Sharingan can see through tricks such as those. Besides, once Naruto gets put into a genjutsu the clones will dissappear and Shadow clones are fragile. They break with one hit. Clone's have also not been shown to disrupt a person's chakra network.

 

But if doesn't prove that eye contact isn't necessary for Sharingan Genjutsu, there are different kinds of Genjutsu that have different requirements, but this does not affect Naruto vs. Sasuke because Sasuke's Genjutsu is Sharingan based, meaning eye contact is required.

 

Danzo, multiple chances for eye contact. Almost every battle opponents lock eyes especially those between Naruto and Sasuke. This point is moot.

 

And yet wasn't Gyuki capable of dispelling Sasuke's Genjutsu cast with a Mangekyo Sharingan?

 

http://www.mangapand...hapter-413.html

 

Nope, in fact he failed to prevent the Mangekyo technique from affecting B. Sasuke got hit with the side effects of regular Mangekyo and covered up his eye canceling the jutsu. Then B got up and attacked.

 

Though B claims that it was eight tails, the problem I have with this couple of panels is that he is still immobile when Sasuke covers his eye, and Sasuke gives no indication that his control was broken. Then 8 tails says nothing about breaking a genjutsu at all.

 

Why not Kurama has been shown to do everything Gyuki can do except produce ink.

 

Except dispel Genjutsu. The other thing to consider is that if Sharingan control is genjutsu why can't Kurama dispel that too?

 

But Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi, like I said the Mangekyo grants three Jutsu one form your left eye one form your right eye and one from both eyes, Amaterasu and Enton Kagutsuchi are from his left and right eyes while Susanoo is from both.

 

In Mangekyo form he doesn't. EMS is different, his Susanoo has a sword now like Itachi's.

 

My point is that during the Search for Tsunade arc Naruto almost died and would have if not for Tsunade because Kabuto had landed a lethal blow to Naruto's heart, meaning it is possible to kill Naruto without having to remove Kurama.

 

How does this matter at all? We were talking about a scenario where Sasuke stabbed Naruto through the chest and he was saved by Kurama. If Naruto dies then Kurama dies as well. There was a whole panel during that scene where Kurama said "It's growing dark."

 

That whole scene itself makes no sense really. Naruto's cut off from the fox's chakra going to die, but then the fox sees Tsunade's tears and he gets revived???

 

http://www.mangapand...hapter-168.html
 

I'd say that the tears somehow magically reconnected Naruto to the fox. Only bc the fox says it is dark and then the darkness is lit by Tsunade's tears. That's the only explanation I can come up with based on that whole chapter. That's Kishi logic at it's finest.

 

But irregardless the point of him being able to be killed doesn't mean anything. In fact it means that Kurama should have wanted to help Naruto more when faced with genjutsu as they are linked to each other in death. And if Naruto get's cut off from him Naruto has a greater chance of dying.

 

Sasuke doesn't have a Mangekyo Genjutsu.

 

Already answered this:

 

A. Sasuke has Itachi's eyes which means he has the jutsu manifested in them

 

B. Different Uchiha have different skill levels. Obito only had one jutsu with his eyes and was noted as being a weak shinobi for an Uchiha which explains the lack of jutsu.

 

C. Why change to Mangekyo if it takes more energy to maintain it?

Edited by Shadow1275, 13 December 2013 - 12:40 AM.

[sushi.]

Why are you guys taking this in the NS debate thread? ^

Edited by sushi., 13 December 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[narulsaku]

Ah but Sasuke doesn't possess Mangekyo Sharinagan, he possesses EMS. Naturally having both Itachi's and his own eyes he would possess the abilites manifested within them. Notice that ever since he achieved EMS Sasuke's Susanno uses a sword to fight. Besides, as I reasoned last time; When Sasuke and Itachi attack Kabuto their eyes are in Mangekyo mode or in Sasuke's case EMS. These are more powerful forms of sharingan than basic and therefore take a larger toll on the user. Why go into such modes to perform basic sharingan genjutsu? It is a waste of energy.

first thing what is EMS i thought that sasukus sharingan was mangekyo sharingan.

And as u said mangakyo sharingan is higher form of sharingan so it needs more chakra so the jutsu performed by it must be more powerful . So i dont think its a complete waste of energy

Why do you guys take this in the NS debate thread? ^

its a debate thread where u can discuss everything as long as u dont break the rules

[Jake]

@Jake

I think Sasuke could be capable of using Tsukyomi because he has Itachi's eyes now, but he didnt had the opportunity to use them yet.

His susanoo now uses a sword like Itachi.

 

I think it was Atheck who pointed out once that Sasuke and Itachi cast Amaterasu with different eyes, and this hasn't changed since he obtained EMS.

 

@jake. As u said eye contact isnt necessary for genjutsu i think it also applies on sharingan mangekyo sarinfan is far more advanced than ordinary sharingan.and i think shinobis like itachi and obito dont even need eyecontact in this level . And about sasuke u cant say that he cant use sharingan based genjutsu just because he hasnt used it yet . I agree with all other things.

And i have a question could danzo use izaagi?and could u please explain those 3 jutsus that can be done by mangekyo sharingan in simple language as u can see i am not that good in english

 

The Sharingan and all it's evolutions are Doujutsu which literally translates to Eye Technique, what would a Doujutsu allow you to preform Genjutsu with your hands?

 

The only Mangekyo Genjutsu that have been shown are Tsukuyomi and Shusui's mind control genjutsu (forgot it's name).

 

As far as we know. Each person's manifested jutsu is different depending on the caster. However,  Mangekyo Sharingan is not EMS. Itachi's eyes manifested Tsukuyomi. Seeing as Sasuke now posesses his eyes it is very likely that he posesses the same jutsu.

 

As I answered above Itachi and Sasuke used different eyes, to prefrom Amaterasu, and if he did then there was no reason to have him use "Genjutsu Sharingan" during the Kabuto fight instead of using Tsukuyomi like Itachi did.

 

The Mangekyo Sharingan gives you Three new jutsu, and for Sasuke those jutsu are Amaterasu, Enton: Kagutsuchi and Susanoo, Itashi's were Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susanoo and as far as we've been shown Madara's are Tsukuyomi (he used in on Obito) and Susanoo, if Sasuke did know Tsukuyomi way didn't he use it too? and not a basic Sharingan Genjutsu.

 

Ah but Sasuke doesn't possess Mangekyo Sharinagan, he possesses EMS. Naturally having both Itachi's and his own eyes he would possess the abilites manifested within them. Notice that ever since he achieved EMS Sasuke's Susanno uses a sword to fight. Besides, as I reasoned last time; When Sasuke and Itachi attack Kabuto their eyes are in Mangekyo mode or in Sasuke's case EMS. These are more powerful forms of sharingan than basic and therefore take a larger toll on the user. Why go into such modes to perform basic sharingan genjutsu? It is a waste of energy.

 

We don't know for sure that you only get 3 types of jutsu from Mangekyo, Itachi only explained the jutsu that he had recieved. It's not impossible to believe that some users of Mangekyo are more talented than others and have more abilities. For example, Obito only had one ability with his Mangekyo which was the creation of dimensional portals. Some Uchiha are more skilled than others.

 

 

Sasuke was using his Mangekyo because he had been using Susanoo just seconds earlier.

 

Obito only had one eye, as I said one jutsu from the left eye, one jutsu from the right eye and one from both, and Itachi was considered to be one of the most skillful shinobi and was stated by Danzo to be far superior with his Sharingan than Sasuke.

 

And for argument's sake lets say that the Mangekyo does enhance Genjutsu, Sasuke has only been shown capable of using basic Sharingan Genjutsu, also if the Mangekyo does enhance the basic Sharingan Genjutsu then in theory Naruto's Senjutsu chakra which enhances your Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Genjutsu, should be able to even out the boost the Mangekyo gives Sasuke.

 

Once again I have already shown why this is unlikely. Everytime an Uchiha goes into Mangekyo or EMS mode it is to use Mangekyo techniques. It would be a waste of energy to enter Mangekyo in order to use basic techniques.

 

Senju chakra enhances your chakra output when using said techniques, not resistance. Naruto's senjutsu is useless if he can't keep Sasuke out of his mind.

 

 

Have you forgotten the "Great Snake Escape", if Sasuke runs out of chakra he just pulls some out his a**.

 

Yes Tsukuyomi is a Mangekyo Sharingan Genjutsu but Sasuke lacks a Mangekyo Sharingan Genjutsu, all his Mangekyo Jutsu are Ninjutsu, his only Genjutsu is basic Sharingan Genjutsu.

 

Already answered this above.

 

 

Already countered this above.

 

My point is that since both Naruto and Itachi were clones there was no reason to try to dispel the Genjutsu

 

I didn't know that they were clones so sure there was no reason for him to dispel the genjutsu. But that doesn't mean he could do it if he had wanted to and it was the real Naruto.

 

 

No Naruto's clone dispersed afterwards.

 

Actually Kurama's been giving Naruto chakra because it made it easier to break the seal, also in all the times Naruto has been under someone's Genjutsu he was never in a real life threatening situation, it was ether his clone or there was someone nearby that could dispel the Genjutsu for him, and as we saw Kurama has been aware of everything around since being sealed inside him.

 

This is incorrect. look at the panel I posted again in our last round of debating. Kurama specifically agrees to give Naruto chakra only because he will die if Naruto dies. And as for life-threatening let's look at the genjutsu situations:

 

First Fight with Itachi: Naruto is staring down Itachi who they have reason to believe is threatening them, it doesn't matter how many people there are that is a life-threatening situation. Remember too that Chiyo was rebuked by Kakashi about being able to break Itachi's genjutsu. Cue Naruto getting put under by the genjutsu and you can bet he's scared for his life. As you said Kurama is aware of Naruto's situation, of Itachi's controlling Sharingan, and of the Akatski's goals.

 

Sasuke Altercation: Already explained this one, there were several moments where Kurama could have broken the jutsu as well as Naruto could have attempted to

 

Itachi/Naruto meeting: I guess they were clones so this meeting can't be used as evidence.

 

As you can see Naruto and Kurama have had opportunities to counter genjutsu and failed.

 

 

Kurama wanted out, by giving chakra to Naruto it made it easier to break the seal, and while Kurama may not want to die he has stated that he prefers Naruto over being controlled by Madara, if Naruto dies Kurama dies but Kurama will be resurrected, Kurama would know this if from nothing else then from Minato and Kushina's conversation before he was sealed in Naruto, Temporary death seems to be preferred to being controlled again, at least to Kurama.

 

What do you mean about the "why would he not have prevented Sasuke the first time", also the healing has been shown to happen after the fight is over the sole exception being the fight at the battle at the Valley of the End. further more, Naruto has not needed it so much as he doesn't get as

many sever injuries anymore.

 

But it is really a process that continues no matter what. Minus his forays into several tailed beast modes, the healing process is always active. It's his own process boosted by the fox chakra. The only reason it is halted in his beast modes is because the boosting chakra is diverted from healing to maintaining the form which further proves my point that the small chakra used for healing causes his flow to be erratic.

 

As for the Sasuke thing, that was referencing the first time Sasuke entered Naruto's subconscious.

 

 

The only time Naruto's chakra was said to be erratic would've been by Ebisu, this happened before Jiraiya removed the seal Orochimaru placed on him.

 

And as for the Sasuke thing, at the time Kurama probably couldn't because of the seal, remember when since his introduction Gyuki has been depicted as not being in a cage like Kurama was, the cage was restricting a lot of Kurama chakra, this is way Naruto had to undue the seal.

 

No the seal has been sending Kurama's chakra into Naruto's constantly in a steady stream, it was the Five Pronged Seal that Orochimaru placed on him in the Forest of Death that was causing the mix to be erratic, and Kakashi only said that Kurama's chakra made it difficult for Naruto to control his chakra meaning his inability to do stuff like create a Rasengan without a Shadow Clone, but since Naruto befriended Kurama Naruto has been shown capable of preforming a Rasengan without a Shadow Clone.

 

But Kakashi did not talk about the seal on Naruto when he was referring to his netwrok. He was merely talking about Naruto's control over his erratic network. In the tree climbing exercise, he had the same problem as well as with the Rasengan. Naruto's network is in no way steady, this is why he has struggled to master basic techniques as quickly as his peers.

 

 

If I remember correct Jiraiya and I think Ebisu said that when Naruto builds up chakra a portion of it went to reinforce the seal to stop Kurama's chakra, but it's been awhile since I read that part.

 

And Chiyo explained that the way to fight the Sharingan is in numbers, and for Naruto he can make it 1,000 to 1 in an instant, in order to keep the real Naruto under Genjutsu, he would have to eliminate all the Shadow Clones, and remember an army of Shadow Clones in Sage Mode was a match for Kurama, and at best Perfect Susanoo is said to be the equal of a Biju and only one clone was capable of tossing around Kurama.

 

In order to disrupt your own flow or distract the enemy yes, but consider the drawbacks as well. Chakra consumption, split power, and the Sharingan can see through tricks such as those. Besides, once Naruto gets put into a genjutsu the clones will dissappear and Shadow clones are fragile. They break with one hit. Clone's have also not been shown to disrupt a person's chakra network.

 

 

Show me the panel that show Shadow Clones Disappearing once the original was placed under Genjutsu, also Naruto's shadow Clones under Sage Mode were shown to be far more durable, and Naruto Shadow Clones even in Part one were shown capable of taking quit a beating, and have you forgotten that one of Naruto's clone was capable of taking out the Third Raikage even after using the shadow clone jutsu itself, and Shadow clones are fully capable of using Chakra in any way the original can.

 

And yet wasn't Gyuki capable of dispelling Sasuke's Genjutsu cast with a Mangekyo Sharingan?

 

http://www.mangapand...hapter-413.html

 

Nope, in fact he failed to prevent the Mangekyo technique from affecting B. Sasuke got hit with the side effects of regular Mangekyo and covered up his eye canceling the jutsu. Then B got up and attacked.

 

Though B claims that it was eight tails, the problem I have with this couple of panels is that he is still immobile when Sasuke covers his eye, and Sasuke gives no indication that his control was broken. Then 8 tails says nothing about breaking a genjutsu at all.

 

 

Just because your eyes is blocked doesn't mean you lose control of the Genjutsu, Obito used Kamui while still maintaining control over Kurama, and Madara was able to fight a battle with Hashirama while keeping Kurama under his control, so there is no reason Sasuke would lose control of the Genjutsu from breaking eye contact or from pain.

Sasuke also just had his chest busted open, and why would Gyuki have to comment about it?

 

Why not Kurama has been shown to do everything Gyuki can do except produce ink.

 

Except dispel Genjutsu. The other thing to consider is that if Sharingan control is genjutsu why can't Kurama dispel that too?

 

 

It's probably something about that fact the Biju resides in the Jinchuriki's subconscious that allows them dispel Genjutsu furthermore thinking about what Kakashi said about Mangekyo genjutsu, and how it can't be broken, It may in fact be impossible for the victim to affect it but not so for a third party, remember when Itachi used Tsukuyomi on Kakashi while to Kakashi it lasted 36 hours in real life it took about one second before the jutsu ended.

 

But Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi, like I said the Mangekyo grants three Jutsu one form your left eye one form your right eye and one from both eyes, Amaterasu and Enton Kagutsuchi are from his left and right eyes while Susanoo is from both.

 

In Mangekyo form he doesn't. EMS is different, his Susanoo has a sword now like Itachi's.

 

 

Actually Sasuke's Susanoo had a sword in it's incomplete form, before he received Itachi's eyes.

 

My point is that during the Search for Tsunade arc Naruto almost died and would have if not for Tsunade because Kabuto had landed a lethal blow to Naruto's heart, meaning it is possible to kill Naruto without having to remove Kurama.

 

How does this matter at all? We were talking about a scenario where Sasuke stabbed Naruto through the chest and he was saved by Kurama. If Naruto dies then Kurama dies as well. There was a whole panel during that scene where Kurama said "It's growing dark."

 

That whole scene itself makes no sense really. Naruto's cut off from the fox's chakra going to die, but then the fox sees Tsunade's tears and he gets revived???

 

http://www.mangapand...hapter-168.html
 

I'd say that the tears somehow magically reconnected Naruto to the fox. Only bc the fox says it is dark and then the darkness is lit by Tsunade's tears. That's the only explanation I can come up with based on that whole chapter. That's Kishi logic at it's finest.

 

But irregardless the point of him being able to be killed doesn't mean anything. In fact it means that Kurama should have wanted to help Naruto more when faced with genjutsu as they are linked to each other in death. And if Naruto get's cut off from him Naruto has a greater chance of dying.

 

 

You we're claiming that with the healing factor Naruto couldn't die because Kurama would just regenerate (or something of the sort), I was pointing out that is false.

 

Sasuke doesn't have a Mangekyo Genjutsu.

 

Already answered this:

 

A. Sasuke has Itachi's eyes which means he has the jutsu manifested in them

 

B. Different Uchiha have different skill levels. Obito only had one jutsu with his eyes and was noted as being a weak shinobi for an Uchiha which explains the lack of jutsu.

 

C. Why change to Mangekyo if it takes more energy to maintain it?

 

 

 

A: there is no prof.

 

B: Obito also only had one eye.

 

C: Great Snake Escape.

 

 

Before you reply to this I gotta say that with Christmas coming up in less than two weeks I've got a lot of work to do, so chances are I won't have much time to reply, if I can I'll try but in case I can't can we just agree to disagree?

[Inferno180]

For anything in the future, I can say the final chapter this year should be much much better than last. Id rather have a cliffhanger with Madara next chapter rather than something like last year.

 

Its funny how after those 3 weeks last year, it turns out Hinata wasnt so special in gaining power and in the real time of the manga, it was just a short moment, not something that went on for minutes. Then May came this year and the biggest meltdown in the pairing wars occurred.

 

The impact 631 had, its just dear god, this is my first pairing war too, I mean I knew of the outcry in Avatar the last airbender, but it got really really bad in that one especially when Zuko remained bad in season 2 and had Katara really unfriendly with him, that set fandom over the edge. This was just me as a non-pairing fan hearing how this was such a mess for everyone.

 

In this fandom, 631s impact was just so so bad, I mean we got 632 with narusaku haters going "ha ha now its SS again" only to see how Sakura didnt trust Sasuke in 635. NH gone unaddressed with no real focus on the hand holding as much as they claim it was canon for their pairing yet Naruto was only concerned with Neji's death, then we got 643 with Minato seeing Kushina in Naruto with all haters saying we got trolled.

 

Literally, this is the mess 631 caused It essentially caused such a mental scar, anything that comes up now, even stuff not pairing or parallel oriented, some people claim this nulls and voids minatos statement of sakura.Yet this doesnt change the fact that Sakura has been the only girl compared so far with Kushina, even with Naruto compared to his own mother later past 631, this had no impact on the foreshadow. Can these fans honestly think for a moment and stop to think how their statement of Naruto and Kushina being alike, how the heck does this impact the fact that Sakura is the only girl compared to Kushina? How does this honestly stop it? In what way does this rather impact the foreshadow for an ending pairing Kushina invoked with her find a girl like her? How does this even help NH? See the problem? Now so many arguments against NS have arisen, its basically just a combination of outright foolish to insanity.

 

I still hear arguments about NS being a kushina kushina, when this can easily be countered by the fact that we have seen Naruto compared to Minato many more times, and well, they are his parents, his personality is taken from both of them, in mind and action. Mind being more like Kushina and action more like minato, but even then, there has been a bigger focus on the Minato side, more have seen and envisioned naruto like Minato. Minato is basically the one naruto for the majority of the series aspired to be like. Seriously, Naruto packs a personality of Minato and Kushina, so if we try to argue Sakuras kushinaness being a problem, rather it would be like this, NS would be not a kushina kushina, but a Minato/Kushina and Kushina, guess which half of Naruto's personality can work with Sakura's if its such a problem according to some fans. Seriously, this was the stupidest arguement I ever heard in the pairing wars, if this personality issue was such a problem then NH would literally kill itself with this argument saying that it only applies to us not them, depsite hinata being constantly compared to either parent. Naruto has traits from both parents, Hinata in no way has even been compared to either canonically, even more so because if we throw personality types into this, then obviously now after 631 NH has a problem with Hinata being like Kushina, it cannot work that way, otherwise its Hinata like Minato which is even harder to believe. So what does this leave us with? Either the Naruto having both personality types saves NH so it can avoid being a Kushina-nothing else or this arguement is just dumb and personally, they need to abandon saying NS is like Kushina Kushina as a reason it would not work. Saying NS is a KK is the same as killing NH with this arguement, an arguement that can work both ways can and always will be used against the one who invoked it.

 

Yet NS can say Sakura is like Kushina because we have manga edivence for it.

 

Even then, the true worst stuff I have seen this year from fans, the arguement over 631 being fanserice, stirring the fan wars, etc. Kishi and his team are telling a story, an action one based on bonds and brotherhood, not love and romance as so many think it to be. The truth is these "pairing" reasons for all that is written are just deluisions of the fanbases. This is for all pairing fans of NS, NH, and SS. The simple fact of the matter is, Kishi and his team dont do this stuff to stirr the fanbases, seriously we got a foreshadow for this long before 631, if it wasnt obvious then who was like Kushina, its only going to be harder for those who take 631 as a joke. This was planned long ago, 631 is only a connection and build on that. People can take it as they want, but seriously thinking that Kishi and his team would devote important screentime for the manga, the main important media form of the series, which is always pressed for time, needing to tell an important story, would deliberaly go out of the way to just invoke fanservice or rile up the fans is beyond stupid. This is an action series not a romance as many take it. The anime team and Rock lee spin off teams have the ability to do all the fanservice and jokes and riling up the fans because they are not making the central story, they can fool around as they wish. Kishi is set on a story, not some romance drama a great portion of the fanbase takes it for. When the time comes, there will be another build on NS, to seriously think that it was just a joke is beyond stupid. All i can say is, if another flame war erupts near the end of the series for Sakura turning to Naruto, all I can say is, you had hints, plenty of them. We spoke for years on kushinas foreshadow, for what evidence existed, we got a right answer for Sakura being like Kushina, Hinata still hasnt been linked in any way. The result that morning was just an outcry of rage and anger at kishi for doing this on his own will.

 

So if people want to argue anything on their pairing, know what to do?

 

1. Use only the manga

2. Find evidence that supports your pairing, not resorting to dissecting the moments of another, both NH and SS have done this the most because of the lack of their own moments. Becausr there are not many NH or SS moments, the majority of the time I see is opposing fandoms try to breakdown the NS ones, even label positive moments like the hug in 450 as negative. NS isnt innocent from this either, but we can simply say that we dont do this as much because we have the lions share of moments, kishi has given NS more evidence and potential, more speculation for us the audience to work with. The story allows for NS to occur, SS is just a plot travisly, using it would cause so many issues on character development and mentality while NH does have progress, its just very minimal compared to NS. For NH to say 631 was a joke or not important is an issue cause thats part of the story. NS can however say 615 wasnt as notable because Kishi hasnt put as much emphasis on it as many thought, it hasnt been seen as a dominant important factor for naruto, only hinata. The Kushina foreshadow however, its bigger due to the fact Kishi said he would do one pairing years ago, made good on that showing the kushina foreshadow, and finally connecting one girl, sakura to it by minato. Its still in the works, to think its just done or undermined? Thats even more foolish than thinking Sasuke would suddenly love Sakura.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well anything is better than 615 for a last chapter of the year. Lol. But seriously, I hope it's decent enough, though got some doubt knowing that we're in too much of a beginning.

[narulsaku]

this was the stupidest arguement I ever heard in the pairing wars

isnt it funny or what?i agree with u on this line. I am kinda bored with nh and ss arguments so tring to ignore then . But sometimes they get on my nerves.

@jake : hum i think i missed that one. Ok. Sharingan doesnt only gives powers to their eyes. It kinda boosts the whole body ,jutsu, and other things. Soo we cant say that sharingan user cant perform genjutsu with their hands

Edited by narulsaku, 14 December 2013 - 02:41 AM.

[Superman333]

isnt it funny or what?i agree with u on this line. I am kinda bored with nh and ss arguments so tring to ignore then . But sometimes they get on my nerves

I just want Kishi to make Naruto and Sakura-Chan be together so it can be no more speculation.

[narulsaku]

I just want Kishi to make Naruto and Sakura-Chan be together so it can be no more speculation.

as inferno gave that long post there are many evidience in that so yes NS IS THE END PAIRING . There r already many evidience

[Inferno180]

It even feels that with Sakura not trusting Sasuke will lead to something else for her getting over her love of him. I mean sakura isnt just going to fall in love on the spot, but there will be some important interaction between her and naruto before the fight with sasuke, i can see this occuring as highly potential. But hey, as dumb as it sounds, Sakura discovering naruto made the forehead compliment may be a turning point if it ever comes up.

[Jake]

@jake : hum i think i missed that one. Ok. Sharingan doesnt only gives powers to their eyes. It kinda boosts the whole body ,jutsu, and other things. Soo we cant say that sharingan user cant perform genjutsu with their hands

 

No there is no evidence that shows that the Sharingan improves the body, in fact it seems to be taxing on the body especially the Mangekyo Sharingan. the Sharingan's primary ability is sight based, and with the Mangekyo Ninjutsu like Amaterasu, Enton: Kagutsuchi and Kamui are all shown being based on the eye, why would it be any different for Genjutsu?