19441 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

This is a big problem. We are all hoping in some way that Kishi realises his mistake and apologises (maybe even gives a go ahead to an alternative ending in the anime or some parallel work). But since NS fandom lost, it naturally bears bad feelings and shows them, making NS look bad. Thus giving Kishi an impression that he was right to "award" other fandoms.

 

I am not surprised about kishi assistant's tweets.... there must be a reason of why SS is the most popular hetero couple in jp.

 

good that u managed to ignore everything else except Sasuke-kuuning of Sakura

well That's your opinion

and yes 631, 663 and many such were just jokes

we just didn't realise that

-sigh-

They say a few drinks will help me to forget her
But after one too many I know that I'll never
Only they can’t see where this is gonna end
They all think I'm crazy but to me it's perfect sense

And my mates are all there trying to calm me down
'Cause I'm shouting your name all over town
I'm swearing if I go there now
I can change her mind, turn it pnuoɹɐ llɐ

And I know that I'm drunk but I’ll say the words
And she'll listen this time even though they’re slurred
So I, dialed her number and confessed to her
I'm still in love but all I heard
Was nothing.



 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 17 November 2014 - 11:00 AM.

[lupina]

I do Support it and I want to belive it, but honestly, I think its very unlikely to happen.

The more I read from Kishimoto, his assistants, his whateverthekitten ... and the more I look at the ships, I really think this "Errors" in the last chapter are just because of the stupidity of the staff and nothing more.

 

Just look at NH/SS. Ist pathetic, everyone knows that (expect the ppl who do not want to know it). Just as pathetic as this chapter.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Well, unfortunately I only see cultural differences. I don't know why SS is popular in the west, but I sure am not surprised that SS is the biggest ship in Japan. I've seen way too many shojo mangas that portrayed abusive horrible relationships as something beautiful. Choosing the one male who is dark and troubled (and doesn't show his feelings at all) despite all the pain he puts you through is considered so poetic. Love that is honed by suffering is the strongest love they say (If Sakura could be even more abusive to Naruto, they could have had an upper-hand over SS).

But what can you expect from the culture with busido and seppuku traditions (where suffering and self-harm were considered honorable and lyrcal for centuries).

 

That is why I just don't believe there is a possibility for our arguments to reach Japanese creators (Kishi, SP, assistants, etc). They actually see what they see, they don't feel there are any contradictions and asspulls. They just decided to canonize one solid pairing over the other. SS doesn't have any dark undertones from their perspective and that perspective is honest. Nothing we say can change that perspective, because in their culture hurt and suffering are still a noble thing. We need to accept that we are reading a Japanese manga, so SS is not horrible, is not illogical, is not immoral.  At least as long as we stay on the ground of deducing author's intentions.

It's funny, because those things a based on honor and pride, you just not making paralles with some abuse to girl from a boy to someone's dignity an pride. Because Sakura has lost both of that in 2 last chapters, so it's not "they see it other way" thing at all.

 

Reading all your massages guys, I'm thinkig that this is some BS they doing for whatever reason they have. 15 years Naruto was shown with Sakura on his side in every game/poster other selling stuff. You can say that she is heroine, yeah, but 2 last chapters made only one obvious hero to point out, and he doesn't have Uzumaki second name, nor pink hair is his distinctive feature. And let's just left whole NS shipping as compare to NH and SS. What was story about? Lonely boy who wanted to be acknowledged by villagers of Konoha, he had love intrest from beggining, he had rival, he had a teacher who was supposed to surpass. Through the story, boy get's stronger, firts he is acknowledged by his first mentor, then by his team, his rival begins to understand that this boy in not nobody, but a strong ninja who had his ways to this power, girls that at first didn't even notice him, starting to see the real deal of this young ninja. Through the plot, his rival becomes evil, and he tries to save him, girl that he loved - starts to see his feelings, and changing her feelings about him to a romantic one and other people see it too, the boy himself getting acknowledged by all the people of his village for his deeds. The plot had it climax as fight between Hero and his Rival, in the end boy gets to see as his rival told him that this whole time, he was not evil but jealous for what the boy had in his hands. End of story is poor - the oby didn't confesse his feelings to girl, girl too didn't tell him a single word about her feelings, though boy is acknowledged - he didn't got that exact poin, but his teacher does. He didn't supras his sensei in love or peace making, just in fighting. His rival got a girl that the Hero was loving from beggining but not because he loved her to or because Hero abaddon his feeling to her, just for no reason, and no one thinked of his as evil, becouse Hero said that he is not. Hero himself got some random girl to marry that has to be seen about 6 times in 15 years of story.

 

Didn't you guys think that this is PURE bullsh*t? Even in marketing - Naruto and Sakura was always shown besides each other, how da fuq they think of making money from Hinata (not give me that "Her VA is famous", yeah not to the whole world as Sakura and Naruto is without their VA). Sasuke is sure got his fans that thinking of him as a "cool guy". But now, we seen some agresive marketing for Hinata (because movie is starting in Japan), and almost nothing for Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke. Some tweets about "you saw all this story in wrong way". And you guys getting this kitten very close to you. So, my thoughts:

- Marketing in RtN way

- Milking Hinata VA fans in Japan

- Teasing shipping fans

- All this cr*p about "See the movie it's connected to manga" is about money

- You don't make story with some characters as main for 95% of time to finish it with them didn't even get resolution to their characters.

And yes, those 2 last chapters was way OOC

Don't you even dare to come on me with kitten like "You delusional, or you saw all this story in wrong wasy". So many people oustide here is pointing huge load of kitten in chapter 700.

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 17 November 2014 - 01:09 PM.

[archangel]

the thing is the rude NH and SS fans think we are the illogical ones, I read a comment saying SS and NH was a given since chapter 1....I was like, what the actual kitten!? .-.

With all the kitten this ending did that what hurt the most. kitten like Vegi (you know who I'm talking about) are given the right to blast anyone that said that NH doesn't have any development. It still doesn't but it happen. Those NH /SS fan were gien bragging right and told people like u that we dont knwo how to read, which isn't the truth but their too blind by their bullshi to realise it. I've got friend who are non-shipper and they were like kitten to 699. 1 oftem ask when was it all about Sasuke.

 

A guy begin to tell me that Hinata cheer Naruto during the kiba fight ( she think about it but never did any actual cheers, Sakura did) It's frustrating. That was a hell of a stab in the back if you ask me. Kishi sold us out to those guy and anybody who think have understand his story.

[James S Cassidy]

Well, unfortunately I only see cultural differences. I don't know why SS is popular in the west, but I sure am not surprised that SS is the biggest ship in Japan. I've seen way too many shojo mangas that portrayed abusive horrible relationships as something beautiful. Choosing the one male who is dark and troubled (and doesn't show his feelings at all) despite all the pain he puts you through is considered so poetic. Love that is honed by suffering is the strongest love they say (If Sakura could be even more abusive to Naruto, they could have had an upper-hand over SS).

But what can you expect from the culture with busido and seppuku traditions (where suffering and self-harm were considered honorable and lyrcal for centuries).

 

That is why I just don't believe there is a possibility for our arguments to reach Japanese creators (Kishi, SP, assistants, etc). They actually see what they see, they don't feel there are any contradictions and asspulls. They just decided to canonize one solid pairing over the other. SS doesn't have any dark undertones from their perspective and that perspective is honest. Nothing we say can change that perspective, because in their culture hurt and suffering are still a noble thing. We need to accept that we are reading a Japanese manga, so SS is not horrible, is not illogical, is not immoral.  At least as long as we stay on the ground of deducing author's intentions.

I watched three harems back to back and in each and every one there was the pretty boy, the female love interest, the goofy "loser," and the shy big boobed girl who was in love with the goofy "loser" that is very similar to Naruto....and in each and every one the main female love interest and the goofy loser ended up because they spent the most time together. There was no confusion and the story was pretty straight forward and nothing was misleading even if drama ensued.

Right...it's a cultural thing.

Make any excuse you want, but you're no better than them now....

Rosario Vampire
B Gata H Kei
Love Hina.

If you have to label it as "cultural differences" then you forgot the most important thing of all. You see I also studied Japanese culture and looked at many ways love is portrayed in Japan. Videos of both girls and guys being interviewed about how they viewed love and not one talked about suffering for it or some kind of this "nobility." Nothing is even similar to what is like when it comes to SS.

Love isn't a "cultural thing." It's a state of being and the fact that you reduce it this much means you have no clue of it at all.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 17 November 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[archangel]

It's funny, because those thins a based on honor and pride, you just not making paralles with some abuse to girl from a boy to someone's dignity an pride. Because Sakura has lost both of that in 2 last chapters, so it's not "they see it other way" thing at all.

 

Reading all your massages guys, I'm thinkig that this is some BS they doing for whatever reason they have. 15 years Naruto was shown with Sakura on his side in every game/poster other selling stuff. You can say that she is heroine, yeah, but 2 last chapters made only one obvious hero to point out, and he doesn't have Uzumaki second name, nor pink hair is his distinctive feature. And let's just left whole NS shipping as compare to NH and SS. What was story about? Lonely boy who wanted to be acknowledged by villagers of Konoha, he had love intrest from beggining, he had rival, he had a teacher who was supposed to surpass. Through the story, boy get's stronger, firts he is acknowledged by his first mentor, then by his team, his rival begins to understand that this boy in not nobody, but a strong ninja who had his ways to this power, girls that at first didn't even notice him, starting to see the real deal of this young ninja. Through the plot, his rival becomes evil, and he tries to save him, girl that he loved - starts to see his feelings, and changing her feelings about him to a romantic one and other people see it too, the boy himself getting acknowledged by all the people of his village for his deeds. The plot had it climax as fight between Hero and his Rival, in the end boy gets to see as his rival told him that this whole time, he was not evil but jealous for what the boy had in his hands. End of story is poor - the oby didn't confesse his feelings to girl, girl too didn't tell him a single word about her feelings, though boy is acknowledged - he didn't got that exact poin, but his teacher does. He didn't supras his sensei in love or peace making, just in fighting. His rival got a girl that the Hero was loving from beggining but not because he loved her to or because Hero abaddon his feeling to her, just for no reason, and no one thinked of his as evil, becouse Hero said that he is not. Hero himself got some random girl to marry that has to be seen about 6 times in 15 years of story.

 

Didn't you guys think that this is PURE bullsh*t? Even in marketing - Naruto and Sakura was always shown besides each other, how da fuq they think of making money from Hinata (not give me that "Her VA is famous", yeah not to the whole world as Sakura and Naruto is without their VA). Sasuke is sure got his fans that thinking of him as a "cool guy". But now, we seen some agresive marketing for Hinata (because movie is starting in Japan), and almost nothing for Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke. Some tweets about "you saw all this story in wrong way". And you guys getting this kitten very close to you. So, my thoughts:

- Marketing in RtN way

- Milking Hinata VA fans in Japan

- Teasing shipping fans

- All this cr*p about "See the movie it's connected to manga" is about money

- You don't make story with some characters as main for 95% of time to finish it with them didn't even get resolution to their characters.

And yes, those 2 last chapters was way OOC

Don't you even dare to come on me with kitten like "You delusional, or you saw all this story in wrong wasy". So many people oustide here is pointing huge load of kitten in chapter 700.

Brillant

[Askia31]

 

By the way, does anyone here know whether Salada's LAST sketches also leaked out with the rest?

nah it wasn't.

Edited by Askia31, 17 November 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[archangel]

Well, unfortunately I only see cultural differences. I don't know why SS is popular in the west, but I sure am not surprised that SS is the biggest ship in Japan. I've seen way too many shojo mangas that portrayed abusive horrible relationships as something beautiful. Choosing the one male who is dark and troubled (and doesn't show his feelings at all) despite all the pain he puts you through is considered so poetic. Love that is honed by suffering is the strongest love they say (If Sakura could be even more abusive to Naruto, they could have had an upper-hand over SS).

But what can you expect from the culture with busido and seppuku traditions (where suffering and self-harm were considered honorable and lyrcal for centuries).

 

That is why I just don't believe there is a possibility for our arguments to reach Japanese creators (Kishi, SP, assistants, etc). They actually see what they see, they don't feel there are any contradictions and asspulls. They just decided to canonize one solid pairing over the other. SS doesn't have any dark undertones from their perspective and that perspective is honest. Nothing we say can change that perspective, because in their culture hurt and suffering are still a noble thing. We need to accept that we are reading a Japanese manga, so SS is not horrible, is not illogical, is not immoral.  At least as long as we stay on the ground of deducing author's intentions.

If Sasuke shown at least some interest with to Sakura I might be able to partially agreed with you. But don't forget that Naruto is the main character. Kishi created Sakura and Sasuke afterward, to be love interest and rival. Hurt and suffering are noble and that what the NS pairing has as noble. Sakura would have died during the war, wouldn't have done a thing to Sasuke. HE NEVER SHOW ANY INTEREST. HELL HE SHOW A LITTLE INTEREST TO KARIN AT LEAST. HOW A STORY WITH THE RIVAL GETTING THE LOVE INTEREST OF THE MAIN CHARACTER AT THE END( NOT IN THE MIDDLE_, THE END OF THE STORY IS A GOOD STORY)

 

I'm sorry but it is illogical and horrible writting 101 period. Plus he leaves to much hint that Sakura had begin to have feeling for Naruto, that Naruto love Sakura and use to much parallel and character pointing toward NS to just say it's a cultural problem. I can't accept it as the real ending, that why I'm so easily inspired to write my own. I do want to defend him, but he just sold out and that's the truth we have to accept. Naruto ending was sold out to milk money.

Edited by archangel, 17 November 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[Alessa]

Make any excuse you want, but you're no better than them now....

 

 

No better than who?

 

Guys, stop bullying me right now, I was just trying to underline possible cultural differences - something that has to be done now and then just for reality check. There has to be a better reason for SS to be the biggest kittening fandom in Japan other than people being stupid\immoral or Sasuke looking japanese\being hot.I do think that certain aspects of SS relationship are percieved differnetly by japanese fans. That is why I tried to warn us that some arguments might not work with them. They won't see the ammount of abuse we see.
It doesn't change that I don't accept this ending either. I think that NS objectively makes more sense and that Kishi must have sold out. I also don't have any explanation why western fandom accepts SS. 

Geez. 

[NarutoUzumaki01]

 

 

No better than who?

 

Guys, stop bullying me right now, I was just trying to underline possible cultural differences - something that has to be done now and then just for reality check. There has to be a better reason for SS to be the biggest kittening fandom in Japan other than people being stupid\immoral or Sasuke looking japanese\being hot.I do think that certain aspects of SS relationship are percieved differnetly by japanese fans. That is why I tried to warn us that some arguments might not work with them. They won't see the ammount of abuse we see.
It doesn't change that I don't accept this ending either. I think that NS objectively makes more sense and that Kishi must have sold out. I also don't have any explanation why western fandom accepts SS. 

Geez. 

No one is bullying you, people just saying that you made mistake to assume that we have main problem not in storyseeing but in culture differenses.

[Alessa]

No one is bullying you, people just saying that you made mistake to assume that we have main problem not in storyseeing but in culture differenses.

James just said I'm "no better than them now". Isn't that bullying? Maybe I understood him wrong.
And there is no space for a mistake here. It is a matter of opinion AND cultural differences are there as long as there are two very different parts of the world, though there are certainly many sides to the problem, I never tried to deny that.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

James just said I'm "no better than them now". Isn't that bullying? Maybe I understood him wrong.
And there is no space for a mistake here. It is a matter of opinion AND cultural differences are there as long as there are two very different parts of the world, though there are certainly many sides to the problem, I never tried to deny that.

He compare you to those assistants I think.

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 17 November 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[Nar123]

No need to fight guys :/

We are all friends here

Edited by Nar123, 17 November 2014 - 11:57 AM.

[Alessa]

He compare you to those assistants I think.

And that's a personal attack. Whatever. I'm not used to getting agressive responses to my opinions here.

[AHK]

Definitely Kishi's assistant. Has been confirmed to be the real deal by multiple trust worthy sources already and Kubo Tite (Bleach creator) follows him/her (link_papa). 
 
Well honestly even if it is pretty unprofessional to say something like that, he/she is also human.  link_papa was harassed alot by fellow NS fans on twitter to the point he/she had to tweet in English twice to accept that Kishi is the creator.  =/ I saw it with my own eyes, the amount of NS tweets Kishi's assistant got.
 
Although Sakura showed signs of moving onto Naruto.. how could he/she think we questioned her feelings for Sasuke? Meh.
 
By the way, Kishi's assistant also mentions Naruto and Sakura here too
 
ダイレクトメッセージで、ちと笑ってしまったのが、猫、猫、猫、猫、ナルト、サクラ、ナルトとサクラ、ナルトとサクラ、ナルトとサクラ、と画像貼ってあった時は 吹いた(^_^;) 好きなんだろうなー[/size]
https://twitter.com/...845516087144448
 
Not sure what it means though~

Was the tweet itself real? People have said that they have visited the page and couldn't find it, so...

If the tweet itself is real, then it only makes me that much more disgusted with the series. It makes me regret even more that I ever picked up Naruto and joined the fandom. Kishi literally made a story that turned into something that does nothing but insult the intelligence of the audience, and has hired people that express the same sentiment. It's disgraceful, and the tweet itself, once again assuming it is real, is nothing short of disgusting and unprofessional, especially going so far as to promote the things that Sasuke has done as ok, under the guise that "Sakura has feelings for him".

[James S Cassidy]

And that's a personal attack. Whatever. I'm not used to getting agressive responses to my opinions here.

So I compare you to the assistant and you call it a personal attack. You who said so yourself that it was cultural difference and that apparently you knew better because you see yourself higher than anyone else here and apparently to think the assistant was correct the whole time. So if the assistant is smarter than us to you, and I compare you to that assistant, then I guess that would mean what I gave was a compliment correct? Or at least according to the logic dictated by you and the assistant.

Hell, according to the "cultural difference" I am apparently madly in love with you and just trying to express how I feel, right? Either that or you find the assistant's bull even bigger than I do and that is why you take this all as a "personal attack."

But what do I know right? I am not "culturally aware" of any of it. Maybe I am giving a compliment and you don't know it or I could just be spitting hogwash trying to cover my tracks as to not sound as bad as it really is. Maybe I could blame you and saying you just read my post wrong. Do you see where I am getting? Word play is a powerful thing and I can manipulate it anyway I want to. It's not that hard and it's not that hard to insult you and make it seem like you're that stupid one with that simple word play.

All I have to do is say the right words and I could change from a villain to the victim in a matter of word play...quite cool, eh? To think you can play with people's emotions and make them feel insecure about how they see the world. You can read books on cultures or any of that nonsense, but unless you talk to people face to face, there is nothing you can learn in a book that you can see from just looking into someone's eyes.

Like I said a million times now, anyone can accept this if they want to and I really don't care, but don't expect me to accept that answer either. People talks of opinions, but they really don't know what it truly means to have a view. My view is that this world forgot something really important throughout history...or maybe they never had it. Maybe they just never understood it and all they see is some shallow shadow of what it really is. Afraid to look up and always standing in the shadow of it. Well, no more. I am not accepting it anymore and no amount of "cultural difference" can change that because love isn't limited by cultural differences.

I wonder if you can see it...prove me right or wrong?
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 17 November 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[NS4Life]

If it's true, I can't believe they would have SS engaged already. How do her parents feel?

That would be a rub in so people's face.

I find it weird that we don't see naruto get married or Hokage.

Can't believe kishi wouldn't make his mc dreams come true.

[James S Cassidy]

If it's true, I can't believe they would have SS engaged already. How do her parents feel?

That would be a rub in so people's face.

I find it weird that we don't see naruto get married or Hokage.

Can't believe kishi wouldn't make his mc dreams come true.

 

Pretty sad when even the fans of the MC don't want his dreams to come true.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 17 November 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well it's official: that guy is in damage control mode. Sad. This is the sad part of long worked career with an unsatisfying overall. If he was sure how to read Sakura, well, I would like him to challenge any of Sakura fans. Even a general fan has said this is NOT the ending that Sakura fans deserve.

[lupina]

If it's true, I can't believe they would have SS engaged already. How do her parents feel?

That would be a rub in so people's face.

I find it weird that we don't see naruto get married or Hokage.

Can't believe kishi wouldn't make his mc dreams come true.

 

The main character is Sasuke, not Naruto.

Dont Forget that!