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#1181 arian_rad

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:00 AM

I can understand the mods wanting us to knock off the actual bashing and harsh criticisms of other fandoms considering this IS an open forum that welcomes everyone. I don't think actual discussion regarding said couples is restricted as long as it sticks to the chapter, and isn't bashing. I could even see one listing off predictions off of chapters, and recollecting past chapters to connect it to the current one. 


I think more than anything that post was mostly concerned with the bashing of characters or couples not just the simple talks about them. That's my interpretation of what I read. I feel we will be fine as long as we don't use harsh words or sentences to fully describe characters and express hate towards them just because.

#1182 James S Cassidy

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:13 AM

 

 

Nice post, but as Sakura Chan said...this is a chapter thread...you should have put it in the debate thread.

How about no?

Given that a good 13 pages are nothing, but ragging on Hinata (and mostly nothing to do with the chapter), I figure this was a change of pace. I could just make it its own thread, but I rather put it here cause it discusses the writing style of the manga itself including up to this chapter. Take that as you will.
 


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#1183 Mistraal

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:19 AM

How about no?

Given that a good 13 pages are nothing, but ragging on Hinata (and mostly nothing to do with the chapter), I figure this was a change of pace. I could just make it its own thread, but I rather put it here cause it discusses the writing style of the manga itself including up to this chapter. Take that as you will.
 

This is precisely why I asked for some clarification. The term "bashing" is getting tossed around quite liberally and there are disagreements over how and where it should be applied. Personally, I don't think what James said crossed the line but I could be wrong.


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#1184 arian_rad

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:41 AM

This is precisely why I asked for some clarification. The term "bashing" is getting tossed around quite liberally and there are disagreements over how and where it should be applied. Personally, I don't think what James said crossed the line but I could be wrong.


I agree, I think things need to be a little bit more clarified towards the true meaning of that post because I find it somewhat silly to not discuss parings since we are basically on a website about a pair that we like. I would like to know more about what was meant in that post and specific examples of what we should not so perhaps.

#1185 tricksie

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:13 AM

How about no?

Given that a good 13 pages are nothing, but ragging on Hinata (and mostly nothing to do with the chapter), I figure this was a change of pace. I could just make it its own thread, but I rather put it here cause it discusses the writing style of the manga itself including up to this chapter. Take that as you will.

How about yes. A mod tells you to stop posting about SS/NH and their fandoms...and what do you do? Post about SS/NH and their fandoms!?!
 
Let me repost what Sakura Blossoms said. Read it carefully:

 

NO MORE NaruHina/SasuSaku discussions IN CHAPTER THREADS.
 
Absolutely NONE.

 

Your post is not a 'change of pace.' It specifically goes against what Sakura posted. At the very least the NS Debate thread would have been a more appropriate area. If a mod tells you not to post this here, then DO NOT DO IT!

 

As for clarifying, the mods are working on it right now. There is a line between discussion and bashing, and we will be making the rules clearer. More discussion about this should live in the Q&A thread, and the mods will post there as we sort this out.



#1186 Jake

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:18 AM

"What if what I want makes you sad at me?"

What if Kishi's understanding of the fanbases is actually reflected in the characters he works with? Something I have been thinking about...or over thinking about it is. Which each character reflects a certain type of viewpoint.

Word of the post: Appreciation.

Let's dive into the lives of the characters themselves:

Naruto.
Naruto is a character that is the embodiment of the word. He is a man who grew up with no parents, no friends, and no "power" so to speak. He was the "little guy" as some put it. The underdog of this fight. Over the course of the series he fought to gain respect and power; striving for the goal to become Hokage so he could be loved and respected. Little did he know that to be Hokage you needed to have the people follow you. Maybe that was the true goal all along. What is it that they say? A man who has never known power understands the value of strength, and knows compassion.

Naruto soon gains power and friends. He appreciates them more than anything in this world. Maybe even more than his dreams as he is willing to sacrificing everything for them. Albeit a little over appreciative, Naruto is the story of a weak boy becoming one of the most powerful men the world has ever known. A moral standing that, while flawed, shows the best of humanity. I'll explain even more how this plays into a bigger picture later.

Sakura.
A girl who what we call the "middle-ground." She had power, but never focused on it because she too interested in her own desires. She soon learns to appreciate the small things in her life. She still strives for what she desires, but she also becomes aware of things she never knew she had. Stuff she used to take for granted. This includes her friends and her love life. She wanted Sasuke so bad, but learned that Naruto did everything for her. She grew to appreciate him and because of that understood the meaning of power as well. She knew strength was not just in physical, but emotionally as well. Letting things get to you is what keeps you from reaching true potential. When she learned to let go of selfish gains, she appreciated what she had and worked harder for the right reasons and in teh right area.

Sasuke.
I shall call him the "Man who had everything." He knew his parents. His powers are basically hand-me downs granted to him all because he "feels." His heritage made him prestige and praised. Popularity came easy to him. The girls wanted him and the guys wanted to be him. Because he already was in the lap of luxury he took for granted everything. Literally the opposite to Naruto, a man who has it all and yet wants none of it. Never appreciates his friends. Never appreciates his power, and never understood to appreciate the little things in life. Little did he know how much he influences. To this day he still doesn't care. It is all about him. Sure he could get a girl easy, but because it was easy is why he never appreciates it. Thus he takes it all for granted.

Hinata.
Another girl who "understands what she gets, but always desires more." She also doesn't appreciate stuff, but not because she can't, but rather because she is greedy. She wants more. Once isn't enough. Reminds of the man who pleads to God for something finer, bargaining for even a moment, and when finally give wants more than what she bargained for. Nothing is good enough until she gets exactly what she wants...and what she wants keeps changing. Little does she realize, she is greedy. Unlike Sakura who understands the situations, she is too busy into what she wants that she ignores the reality that she lives in for the fantasy she creates. She is not a bad person, but rather is just too greedy to notice anything beyond what she wants to see.


How the pairings reflect?
NaruSaku.
A pairing who grew to understand each other. They are aware of each other's desires and wants...although it can be argues that Naruto still sees Sakura as part 1. Point is, it is not about themselves. It is about the other. What the other person wants, not what they desires themselves. While Sakura started out selfish, she developed into something more. Both appreciate each other and what they have done for each other over the years. The only issue is that Naruto needs to open up his eyes to a truth that maybe Sakura wants him as much as he wants her. He does suffer a Hinata syndrome of not realizing the truth, but not for the reason of greed. Rather he is so appreciative of her, he wants her happiness to be above all else. That means when he does get a moments of romance or a moment of Sakura caring for him, he appreciates it. Same with Sakura. She appreciates and understands everything Naruto does.

SasuSaku
A rather selfish pairing. It is all about themselves. Before Sakura was all about her to the point that she abandoned her friends for it. A mistake she soon rectified. A pairing built on a lie rather than truth, Sasuke is also a person who cares not for anything, but himself. A desire he has that changes like the wind. Revenge, mostly. Perhaps his new dreams of Hokage is also for revenge, but a different kind of revenge. This pairing shows that following self-satisfaction goals, lead to unimportant moments and caring now of what is happening in the real world.

NaruHina
A pairing built on greed. This is different than self-satisfaction. Unlike self-satisfaction, greed can have emotions and caring. Doesn't mean you aren't greedy. It just means you're narrow minded. It is all about this and nothing else matters. So is Hinata. A very narrow-minded girl who sole ideals are based around her love for Naruto. His nindo, his lifestyle, his motivation, and vision. Yet, she never notices his desires. She never built her own either. His goals are her goals. His way of life is her way of life. She is like a mirror and just reflects who ever she points at. Unfortunitly, she is a cloudy mirror and never reflects the light that shines on her. She never appreciates the moments when Naruto actually pays attention to her and desires more. "I want to confess. I want to tell him." She did and it wasn't enough. "I want to be seen as strong." Naruto says she is and it still wasn't enough. "I want to hold his hand and walk beside him." And still, it isn't enough. (Again, arguably, people will say the last one is a different case, but I am waiting to see how she truly takes such a thing. So for now, I'll remain constant.) Greed.


How does this reflect on the fanbase?

NaruSaku fans
For the most part, the NS fans seem to know when the moments exist. The moments that are so small, but play such a huge role. The hug scene, the feeding the scene, the bridge scenes, perhaps even moments in part 1. NS fans appreciate the moments no matter how small and see as them getting closer. Maybe as friends, or maybe as something more. We understand that they can be friends, but aware that sometimes this is only the first step to a successful relationship. Every moment counts, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem. While our moments are sometimes small and a bit ambiguous, we love them none the less. We love every interaction and love how not only Naruto, but Sakura have grown.
 
SasuSaku fans
SS fans only see what they want to believe. Sakura loves Sasuke. Even of story. They see Sakura as selfish and Sasuke as this true successor. Sounds familiar? I hope it does. Do they see the change? I think the real question is, does it matter to them? It doesn't matter what changes over the course of time. They don't appreciate the other stuff because they care not to. Like Sasuke, they care for nothing, but the own desire of the fandom. SS must be canon no matter what has changed. No matter how Sakura or Sasuke change, she will always be selfish and he will always be the best choice for her. He tried to kill her? Naw, he just doesn't realize his feelings yet. The feelings he secretly desires.

NaruHuna fans.
How to explain this one? "Kishi, we want Hinata to express how she feels to Naruto." Chapter 437 happens and Naruto shows no response to it other than her "dying." "I want more. Now I want Naruto to see Hinata's strength" Chapter 559 Naruto saves Hinata and says to her "Don't be so hard on yourself. You're strong too." "Now I want Naruto to acknowledge Hinata now and I want Hinata to get her wish to hold his hand." Chapter 615 got exactly that. Naruto acknowledged her and held her hand exactly how she wanted. It lead to nothing. "Waaaah, I want more." All the while ignoring Naruto's love for Sakura, ignoring Sakura changing development, and ignoring everything that has happened in the manga. Instead of appreciating all the moments that NaruHina does get, they whine and desire more. Also sound familiar? Nothing is ever satisfactory and nothing else matters. It is all about Hinata and her desires, never about anyone else. Naruto? Who cares what he wants, we care not. We just want Hinata because she deserves it. Hinata may seem good on the outside and her personality is shy and kind, but reality is she is very greedy. A sour among the sweet.

Taking these things into consideration, perhaps Kishi is trying to reflect the fanbases in the manga with the pairings themselves. I wouldn't put it past him and the subliminal messages could be the key. Kishi is often a man who plays stupid, but really is very smart. Time and time again he throws us curve balls and what not like crazy and at times we find ourselves the morons. Assuming something that isn't and even at times claim him to be a bad writer when really he isn't. Yes, he can make mistakes and at times has written things....sub-par; mostly because he had written himself into a hole that he had to use a cheap trick to get out of it. He is human after all, but when he truly writes the story the story is near perfect. I even say genius in some ways. I don't know what he is planning, but I am expecting great things.





 

 

A very well written post but I have to agree with the others and say that it would be a lot more appropriate in the debate thread.


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#1187 Phantom_999

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:24 AM

How about yes. A mod tells you to stop posting about SS/NH and their fandoms...and what do you do? Post about SS/NH and their fandoms!?!
 
Let me repost what Sakura Blossoms said. Read it carefully:

 

NO MORE NaruHina/SasuSaku discussions IN CHAPTER THREADS.
 
Absolutely NONE.

 

Your post is not a 'change of pace.' It specifically goes against what Sakura posted. At the very least the NS Debate thread would have been a more appropriate area. If a mod tells you not to post this here, then DO NOT DO IT!

 

As for clarifying, the mods are working on it right now. There is a line between discussion and bashing, and we will be making the rules clearer. More discussion about this should live in the Q&A thread, and the mods will post there as we sort this out.

 

So if anything of that nature happens we go to the debate thread to discuss it? Well simple enough, and I'll try to refrain but I make no guarantees.......... :ermm:


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#1188 Sakura_Blossom

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:51 AM

I hate the silence before the chapter out. It seems everyone is preparing for war.  :glare:



#1189 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:54 AM

Well, you guys are making this intense, you know, let alone looking forward to spoilers. I know we are reaching the peak of the pairing war, but let's settle down a little, shall we.



#1190 Atheck

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:57 AM

I hate the silence before the chapter out. It seems everyone is preparing for war.  :glare:

 

Not everyone. Some people are befuddled by what Kishi intends for next whilst others simply choose to remain quiet because they have nothing to offer to this discussion. Their anticipation for the chapter becomes prominent and influences their actions or lack thereof. Personally, I just want to see what Sakura will do next and determine whether SSM will be revealed or not.



#1191 Transformers03

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:00 AM

Well, you guys are making this intense, you know, let alone looking forward to spoilers. I know we are reaching the peak of the pairing war, but let's settle down a little, shall we.

 

I don't know what is more ridiculous, that some of us are actually preparing for a "war" that isn't really a war, but simply just a bunch of stubborn fans arguing with a bunch of other stubborn fans to see who will accurate predict ultimate outcome of a relationship subplot in a manga for pre-teens...........

 

Or the fact that most of us are waiting for the outcome of a fictional war in a manga (for pre-teens), that has long passed it's peak.



#1192 megi

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:01 AM

Thank you moderators. 

 

Next chapter will  probably be out in a few hours so I want to get in some things. I don't think (and hope) that the next chapter will cut away to any other scene because it looks like we are riding right into the first climax of the battle and to me it would feel out of place to cut to Obito/Kakashi or Tsunade or Yamato, etc. Here are a couple of things I want to see play out hopefully in the next few chapters

  1. How the slugs will come into play besides healing/acid spraying. Like Atheck and others have said, we really don't have the full picture on slugs. It's pretty lacking next to the frogs and snakes, but that's because the focus of the manga have been on Naruto and Sasuke. It looks like Kishi is putting more focus on Sakura since a few chapters back so I hope to see more slug abilities. But I have to wonder - will we be seeing any moves such as slug sage mode any time soon? This battle? or the next? The manga seems to be wrapping up and honestly it looks like it's time to whip out the slug sage and show its abilities. If not this battle, than it must be the battle between Naruto and Sasuke. It is most likely going to be Sakura who displays this ability. I'm not sure how much time Tsunade has or if she was ever able to perform the sage mode
  2. We are still in the dark about Sakura's seal. I was hesitant to keep putting emphasis on the fact that Sakura's seal is not called the Yin seal, but I keep on seeing her seal referred to as the Yin seal on english forums again and again. I'm hesitant because I don't have any idea how different Sakura's seal really is to the Yin seal. So, I don't know how "big" or little the detail of Sakura's seal not being a Yin seal is. What techniques does Sakura have in store? Will she be displaying similar techniques that Tsunade has shown? Or will she be showing something new? 
  3. I'm extremely interested in the aspect of "former team 7" and "new team 7". I feel like Sai is going to do something big. Not right now, but definitely later. It's not here yet, but I feel like tension is about to burst on that team. Nostalgic team 7 won't last for long. Probably till the end of this fight. Then I'll be looking forward to what Sasuke will do afterwards. Sai, who has not the best grasp of emotions seems to have the best insight of the relationship of team 7.
  4. I think this would be a terrible time for the manga to bring up Tsunade. Not because of bad writing or whatnot, but I think we just got started on the action and I don't want Naruto/Sakura to be distracted by that information. I also don't like the idea of the slug bringing the subject up. Not sure why.

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#1193 Sakura_Blossom

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:04 AM

 

Not everyone. Some people are befuddled by what Kishi intends for next whilst others simply choose to remain quiet because they have nothing to offer to this discussion. Their anticipation for the chapter becomes prominent and influences their actions or lack thereof. Personally, I just want to see what Sakura will do next and determine whether SSM will be revealed or not.

 

I understand this does not make the silence less disturbing.

 

I don't know what is more ridiculous, that some of us are actually preparing for a "war" that isn't really a war, but simply just a bunch of stubborn fans arguing with a bunch of other stubborn fans to see who will accurate predict ultimate outcome of a relationship subplot in a manga for pre-teens...........

 

Or the fact that most of us are waiting for the outcome of a fictional war in a manga (for pre-teens), that has long passed it's peak.

Not sure what to say ... That was me?



#1194 Transformers03

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:16 AM

 

Thank you moderators. 

 

Next chapter will  probably be out in a few hours so I want to get in some things. I don't think (and hope) that the next chapter will cut away to any other scene because it looks like we are riding right into the first climax of the battle and to me it would feel out of place to cut to Obito/Kakashi or Tsunade or Yamato, etc. Here are a couple of things I want to see play out hopefully in the next few chapters

  1. How the slugs will come into play besides healing/acid spraying. Like Atheck and others have said, we really don't have the full picture on slugs. It's pretty lacking next to the frogs and snakes, but that's because the focus of the manga have been on Naruto and Sasuke. It looks like Kishi is putting more focus on Sakura since a few chapters back so I hope to see more slug abilities. But I have to wonder - will we be seeing any moves such as slug sage mode any time soon? This battle? or the next? The manga seems to be wrapping up and honestly it looks like it's time to whip out the slug sage and show its abilities. If not this battle, than it must be the battle between Naruto and Sasuke. It is most likely going to be Sakura who displays this ability. I'm not sure how much time Tsunade has or if she was ever able to perform the sage mode
  2. We are still in the dark about Sakura's seal. I was hesitant to keep putting emphasis on the fact that Sakura's seal is not called the Yin seal, but I keep on seeing her seal referred to as the Yin seal on english forums again and again. I'm hesitant because I don't have any idea how different Sakura's seal really is to the Yin seal. So, I don't know how "big" or little the detail of Sakura's seal not being a Yin seal is. What techniques does Sakura have in store? Will she be displaying similar techniques that Tsunade has shown? Or will she be showing something new? 
  3. I'm extremely interested in the aspect of "former team 7" and "new team 7". I feel like Sai is going to do something big. Not right now, but definitely later. It's not here yet, but I feel like tension is about to burst on that team. Nostalgic team 7 won't last for long. Probably till the end of this fight. Then I'll be looking forward to what Sasuke will do afterwards. Sai, who has not the best grasp of emotions seems to have the best insight of the relationship of team 7.
  4. I think this would be a terrible time for the manga to bring up Tsunade. Not because of bad writing or whatnot, but I think we just got started on the action and I don't want Naruto/Sakura to be distracted by that information. I also don't like the idea of the slug bringing the subject up. Not sure why.

 

 

I try not get bias with my predictions (though I doubt I have been keeping that promise to myself), but here I can't help posting a very pro-NS theory. 

 

While don't thing the original dynamic will ever come back, I feel like the character's will sort of act like what did way back in the beginning of Part 1. For example, Naruto is already all happy and yelling about how Team 7 is back, and Sakura has already seemed to be impress by Sasuke's power already (I still find it weird that his attempted murder hasn't really change her outlook on him, even if she believe he wasn't in right state of mind). So it could be possible that Sakura's crush on Sasuke (her most obviously trait in early Part 1), could come back into play, and it is possible that Sai could notice that her feelings are either 1) completely not real, and are simply based on a childhood desire, or 2) that her feelings for Naruto have surpass her feelings for Sasuke. It is interesting prediction, though I do believing I am really grasping on this theory. Just something to bring up, that probably will never happen.

 

Though then again I seen people talk the possibility of Minato pointing out the MK and NS parallel, yet I doubt most of us actually thought that it will happen. Then it did happen, and now it will seem REALLY awkward, and kind of deucey of Kishi doesn't make NS happen in the end............Less so if NH doesn't become cannon in the end, despite the hand holding and looking through the eyes things.

 

 

I understand this does not make the silence less disturbing.

Not sure what to say ... That was me?

 

I was mostly just making joke, though it really comes off of my own embarrassment of being part of something so.........unimportant. I love this site, and love almost everyone on it, it just I feel like we take things a little bit to seriously. 



#1195 spring'scherryblossoms

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:37 AM

*comes out of lurking* hi guys!  :smile:

 

Do you think we'll get a little flashback like a page or two about the time when Sakura was learning how to summon/getting the contract with the slugs in the next chapter?



#1196 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:43 AM

*comes out of lurking* hi guys!  :smile:

 

Do you think we'll get a little flashback like a page or two about the time when Sakura was learning how to summon/getting the contract with the slugs in the next chapter?

As wrong it may sound, I think we could get one if Tsunade dies, much like how we got more insight of Naruto and Jiraiya's relationship, including how he got the new clothes. Then again, we could get one without resulting her death, rather something fatal like not dead, but out of picture. Who knows.



#1197 merryGOflava

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:43 AM

waiting for next chapter.....I wonder what they are gonna do with the summons....hmmm.........

 

...I wonder if Sakura's summon really is different.....


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#1198 spring'scherryblossoms

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:45 AM

As wrong it may sound, I think we could get one if Tsunade dies, much like how we got more insight of Naruto and Jiraiya's relationship, including how he got the new clothes. Then again, we could get one without resulting her death, rather something fatal like not dead, but out of picture. Who knows.

 

I get the feeling it maybe like that too, sadly. I'm hoping that Naruto would ask her instead. lol



#1199 Mistraal

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:45 AM

How about yes. A mod tells you to stop posting about SS/NH and their fandoms...and what do you do? Post about SS/NH and their fandoms!?!
 
Let me repost what Sakura Blossoms said. Read it carefully:

 

NO MORE NaruHina/SasuSaku discussions IN CHAPTER THREADS.
 
Absolutely NONE.

 

Your post is not a 'change of pace.' It specifically goes against what Sakura posted. At the very least the NS Debate thread would have been a more appropriate area. If a mod tells you not to post this here, then DO NOT DO IT!

 

As for clarifying, the mods are working on it right now. There is a line between discussion and bashing, and we will be making the rules clearer. More discussion about this should live in the Q&A thread, and the mods will post there as we sort this out.

 

I have made a post regarding this in the Mod Q&A thread. If you wish to discuss it can be found here: http://www.narusaku....e=3#entry475261


Edited by Mistraal, 12 June 2013 - 05:45 AM.

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So THAT'S how it is!!!!

 

 


#1200 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:46 AM

 

I get the feeling it maybe like that too, sadly. I'm hoping that Naruto would ask her instead. lol

That can work too. That would be nicer way to execute it.






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