137 replies to this topic

[tekopi]

Call me crazy but I think if Sasuke dies N/S will be more possible because they will grow closer to one another and they will become stronger together. A true couple has to endure all kinds of hardships that's how strong the power of love really is. Now love forming between two people who rarely see each other and speak to each other that's a little hard to believe. I believe Naruto and Sakura will talk and sort things out between them, Sakura has come to admit that the Sasuke she once knew is long gone and has accepted that he's a threat. She's willing to stop him the question is can Naruto admit that and willing to take his life??? I believe that will be the main drama in Naruto's character development.

Of course it is. But even IF Sasuke can be redeemed, N/S can still be happening with a big probability because we cannot predict what will happen when they meet Sasuke in their attempt to save him. After all, if Sasuke is willing to open his eyes back, he's still have a lot of trouble coming ahead of him; criminal charges, people's view, etc. etc... he might as well going to wander in order to avoid all of that.

[catsi563]

to play a little devils advocate for Sasuke. There is a possibility he may survive his redemption due to a parallel one can draw between Naruto and Sakura and Sasuke and Karin.

the parallel in question?

the heaven and earth bridge and kyubi injuring Sakura.

how does this parallel you ask?

easy first the obvious beyond it being a case of a loved one (Naruto/Sasuke) hurting a loved one (Sakura/Karin). the main parallel is the bridge itself. it cant escape anyone that this event and it parallel both happened on a bridge. and in both cases the bridge in question was destroyed.

the adversary both times was a konoha shinobi ((orochimaru counts even if he was a missing nin)).

now i grant the parallels get shakey after that, but to me the parallel becomes clear when we view it through the lense and perspective of the two who did the injury.

Naruto wasnt conscious he had no choice in the matter you may say. And Yet! he is responsible for her injury. Why? simple as Yamato explained to him he got impatient and tapped into the kyuubis power recklessly. In the process he hurt the very person he was trying to protect.

he made a choice to use the power and it cost him an injury to sakura.

Much as Sasuke made a choice to hurt Karin when she became a burden in his eyes in order to gain revenge against Danzo.

Yet ask yourself this.

Much Like Naruto in the grip of kyubis cloak, could we not also argue that Sasuke too is after a fashion lost to the demon of vengance thats taken hold of his soul. Now note im not defending Sasukes choices. Kakashi himself clearly stated that vengance would leave him empty and this has been proven true.

and yet the rage that drives him also leads him to make ill informed or manipuated choices, and thus like Naruto in the grip fo the demons cloak he too could be considered to a point to be controlled by his demon.

thus we come back to the parallel. Karin will be saved of that im certian, but now she like Sakura before her on another bridge has seen the depths to which her loved one will go to obtain their ends, the monster they will become.

She like Sakura ((should she live)) now bares a scar from that loved one. the possibilitiy thus extends itself that like Naruto before him Sasuke will be brought around ((perhaps by Kakashi and or Sakura)) by someone to the reality of what hes done.

for Naruto it was the reality of losing everything he fought for to the power he would have used to fight for it with.

and for Sasuke it is losing all that he had and could have to the demon of vengance that now consumes him.

Edited by catsi563, 06 February 2010 - 07:23 PM.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

@Catsi
I somewhat agree with the parrallels. But the only different is, Sasuke stated the reason, how Karin became a burden being a hostage.
In Naruto's kyuubi form in heaven and earth bridge, Naruto losses control, and was somewhat unconscious to know whom he is hurting.
Anyhow, I like the idea...

[Gravenimage]

@Catsi
I somewhat agree with the parrallels. But the only different is, Sasuke stated the reason, how Karin became a burden being a hostage.
In Naruto's kyuubi form in heaven and earth bridge, Naruto losses control, and was somewhat unconscious to know whom he is hurting.
Anyhow, I like the idea...

I agree on catsi's theory but Naruto didn't meant to hurt Sakura he will never stabbed Sakura to get through someone he hated very much and then say that she's a burden. This is what separate Naruto from being just like Sasuke.

[naruto-z]

She's been hit with quite a load of emotional traumas recently and thinks she's making rational choices, but just like Shikamaru when Asuma was killed in front of his eyes, it's not as rational as either thought. Had Shikamaru, Ino and Chouji gone out on their own it would have been just as suicidal as Sakura's plan. Sakura, at least, was going to keep anyone else in her group from getting killed. It would be nice if this does make Kakashi take Sakura more seriously, and give her training time like he did Sasuke and Naruto.

yeah i think a lot of people are forgetting this as all they think about is how naruto's been under a lot of stress. I think sakura (who may not be as much as naruto) is also still going through a whole bunch of stress with all the things that have been going on in her life. I mean, the whole kill sasuke idea affects her too you know.

and her sensei (tsunade) is basically unconscious

konoha has just been completely destroyed

she just told naruto she loved him

she wants to do everything she can to save/help naruto

and she's going into a life/death situation with sasuke right now...where now she has to deal with sai and the rest of the group

[Gravenimage]

With everything that Sakura is going through it wouldn't surprise me if she breaks down emotionally.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

May I bump in here and say that I don't want Sasuke to live? Why should he get to live, when such great characters were killed? Orochimaru, Zabuza, Sarutobi, Jiraiya, Kisame, Itachi... I can go on and on. Why should this emo, psychotic little punk get to live, when all the good characters have been killed off?! To me, he's nothing more then a little punk, and that's my opinion.

[Miss Soupy]

Much Like Naruto in the grip of kyuubis cloak, could we not also argue that Sasuke too is after a fashion lost to the demon of begance thats taken hold of his soul. Now note im not defending Sasukes choices. Kakashi himself clearly stated that vengance would leave him empty and this has been proven true.

and yet the rage that drives him also leads him to make ill informed or manipuated choices, and thus like Naruto in the grip fo the demons cloak he too could be considered to a point to be controlled by his demon.

thus we come back to the parallel. Karin will be saved of that im certian, but now she like Sakura before her on another bridge has seen the depths to which her loved one will go to obtain their ends, the monster they will become.

She like Sakura ((should she live)) now bares a scar from that loved one. the possibilitiy thus extends itself that like Naruto before him Sasuke will be brought around ((perhaps by Kakashi and or Sakura)) by someone to the reality of what hes done.

for Naruto it was the reality of losing everything he fought for to the power he would have used to fight for it with.

and for Sasuke it is losing all that he had and could have to the demon of vengance that now consumes him.

It's not a parallel really. Naruto made a mistake, but it was an accidental one. Sasuke did everything on purpose. It might have been a parallel if Sasuke was still under the influence of the cursed seal. But he is free of it, and acts even worse than he used to. Sakura forgiving Naruto for what was obviously an accident is a lot different than Karin pulling through and forgiving Sasuke for something he doesn't feel he did wrong.

And Sasuke realizes the full reality of what he has done, and yet he feels no guilt for it. Vengeance isn't an actual demon who has a mind and personality of it's own.

[Serenity Namikaze]

to play a little devils advocate for Sasuke. There is a possibility he may survive his redemption due to a parallel one can draw between Naruto and Sakura and Sasuke and Karin.


easy first the obvious beyond it being a case of a loved one (Naruto/Sasuke) hurting a loved one (Sakura/Karin). the main parallel is the bridge itself. it cant escape anyone that this event and it parallel both happened on a bridge. and in both cases the bridge in question was destroyed.

Naruto wasnt conscious he had no choice in the matter you may say. And Yet! he is responsible for her injury. Why? simple as Yamato explained to him he got impatient and tapped into the kyuubis power recklessly. In the process he hurt the very person he was trying to protect.

he made a choice to use the power and it cost him an injury to sakura.

Much as Sasuke made a choice to hurt Karin when she became a burden in his eyes in order to gain revenge against Danzo.

Yet ask yourself this.

Much Like Naruto in the grip of kyuubis cloak, could we not also argue that Sasuke too is after a fashion lost to the demon of begance thats taken hold of his soul. Now note im not defending Sasukes choices. Kakashi himself clearly stated that vengance would leave him empty and this has been proven true.

and yet the rage that drives him also leads him to make ill informed or manipuated choices, and thus like Naruto in the grip fo the demons cloak he too could be considered to a point to be controlled by his demon.

for Naruto it was the reality of losing everything he fought for to the power he would have used to fight for it with.

and for Sasuke it is losing all that he had and could have to the demon of vengance that now consumes him.

Interesting theory

In both situation, both have taken drastic measure to obtain their goal. Both have 'sacrifice' someone important near them to achieve it.

The only thing that, and that my personal opinion, make those 2 differents is that Sasuke has consciously hurt Karin while Naruto didn't.

Both have made a choice, not the best, but in Naruto's case, hurting Sakura to be able to save Sasuke wasn't an option ( and after Yamato-taichou have told him the truth about Sakura injurie, Naruto have made a promise to himself to never consciently ask Kyuubi's power).

Of course, even if he made that promise to himself, there are still time that made Naruto angry enough to cross again that path ( ex : Pein ).

Also, unlike Sasuke, Naruto never have the choice to bare this monster. He constantly have to fight it, while Sasuke is at a point that he doesn't even care anymore. Sasuke have embrace that monster consciously and completely.

Edited by silverserenity, 06 February 2010 - 06:25 PM.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

And Sasuke realizes the full reality of what he has done, and yet he feels no guilt for it. Vengeance isn't an actual demon who has a mind and personality of it's own.

And with this, Sasuke's life in the end would be tragic.

[catsi563]

the thing that makes the parallel i drew interesting is that we cant even count the cursed seal. the seal doesnt influence him as much as people think it does. And as Soupy says its not even a factor anymore.

what draws the two into a parallel to me is the choices made. Naruto chose to use a power that was dangerous and unstable, and in the process hurt Sakura. he may not had swung the tail itself, but he was in that position because of his impatience and his choice to tap power.

Sasuke put Karin in that position by choosing vengance over all else. He sacraficed her on the altar of that vengance as readilly as he would have sacraficed Konoha itself.

in the end both chose and both either paid ((in narutos case)) or will pay((in Sasukes)) a price for it.

Vengance isnt a demon liek kyubi no i agree with that. But it is a demon of its own sort. Kakashi as much as said so ((read not a literal one but a metaphorical)) but a demon of choices and and emptiness. one that leads the person who chooses it to walk down darker and darker paths.

[TwilightLink20xx]

^While that is true, the difference is their reactions to the aftermath. Naruto swore off using the Kyuubi from then on out (though he later broke down, but not until getting to that breaking point, which was extreme), where as Sasuke seems to not only take no issue in the dark path, but has continued to want to push deeper and deeper into it, so long as he gets power.

Because of this, it is more than safe to say that Naruto and Sasuke's situations are meant to be polar opposites, so I can't see using Naruto's struggle with the Kyuubi to be evidence for Sasuke surviving the end of the series. I'd say it further shows how wrong Sasuke is, and that it makes his death all the more likely, especially if Kishi plays the Karma or Tragic Hero cards.

[dl316bh]

Folks keep saying "Sasuke will be redeemed". I honestly, truly hope that you're all wrong. Maybe it's just me, but I cannot see any way Sasuke can be "redeemed" without it being a copout.

Unless you mean "in Naruto's eyes", which doesn't carry a lot of weight considering Sasuke could destroy the village, then say he's sorry with no emotion and Naruto would probably accept it.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

Folks keep saying "Sasuke will be redeemed". I honestly, truly hope that you're all wrong. Maybe it's just me, but I cannot see any way Sasuke can be "redeemed" without it being a copout.

Unless you mean "in Naruto's eyes", which doesn't carry a lot of weight considering Sasuke could destroy the village, then say he's sorry with no emotion and Naruto would probably accept it.

Exactly.

[Samantha]

I was never a big Karin fan but she definitely didn't deserve to go out like that. I have never truly hated Sasuke until this point.

Damn! What an ass.

[Gravenimage]

You know what really is funny??? that S/S fans keep asking us why do we hate Sasuke ch 480 is a perfect sample why most N/S fans hate him.

[Serenity Namikaze]

You know what really is funny??? that S/S fans keep asking us why do we hate Sasuke ch 480 is a perfect sample why most N/S fans hate him.

if chapter 480 is not the best proof for them, that because they are to blinded by their fate in SS couple.

I don't say that, because Sasuke is beyond the point of salvation, NS will be 100% come true but, that show us that SS chance of becoming canon have drop drastically (and even before that, the probability wasn't high)

Edited by silverserenity, 06 February 2010 - 09:21 PM.

[naruto-z]

^While that is true, the difference is their reactions to the aftermath. Naruto swore off using the Kyuubi from then on out (though he later broke down, but not until getting to that breaking point, which was extreme), where as Sasuke seems to not only take no issue in the dark path, but has continued to want to push deeper and deeper into it, so long as he gets power.

Because of this, it is more than safe to say that Naruto and Sasuke's situations are meant to be polar opposites, so I can't see using Naruto's struggle with the Kyuubi to be evidence for Sasuke surviving the end of the series. I'd say it further shows how wrong Sasuke is, and that it makes his death all the more likely, especially if Kishi plays the Karma or Tragic Hero cards.

i think i have a possible idea of how the next naruto training arc may work out. since naruto swore that he wouldn't use the kyuubi's power out of his own will he has gotten a lot stronger. i think that now naruto may come back to the kyuubi to have a little talk and later on a decision to start using the kyuubi again but in a different way. he'll make the decision to use its power again but he must control it. so there's a training arc. big IF here cuz that'll be a really random decision. something would have to trigger him to make that decision where he'd need a lotta power. possibly sasuke?

[Serenity Namikaze]

i think i have a possible idea of how the next naruto training arc may work out. since naruto swore that he wouldn't use the kyuubi's power out of his own will he has gotten a lot stronger. i think that now naruto may come back to the kyuubi to have a little talk and later on a decision to start using the kyuubi again but in a different way. he'll make the decision to use its power again but he must control it. so there's a training arc. big IF here cuz that'll be a really random decision. something would have to trigger him to make that decision where he'd need a lotta power. possibly sasuke?

I totally agreed on that. Naruto will have, for the sake of the future outcome against Sasuke, to control his emotion so that he doesn't loose control over Kyuubi. I think that this point is extremely important because we know what make him go on Kyuubi state and it mainly concerning Sasuke. In his first encounter with Sasuke, while he didn't unleash Kyuubi's power, he still had to fight the urge to use it power. It will be fruitless if he have to face both Sasuke and his inner demon. Naruto biggest weakness so far is that he let his emotion get the best of him and that lead to reckless move without any strategy.