228 replies to this topic

[ciardha]

Whhhy? Why would you complain about Sakura being bashed and yet single out Hinata as deserving of Naruto's wrath? She is not the one in charge of the decision, it was Shikamaru and Sakura who were the leaders in it. Hinata is unimportant in the matter and really doesn't deserve any kind of treatment like that. And really, I doubt Hinata would suddenly seem fickle about her emotions if she saw Naruto's 'unpleasant side'. You can't blame Hinata for being popular, it is the fans that give her greater support than her part may deserve.

See the rest of my post why.

For Hinata herself, she does need a bit of a wake up call, she loves Naruto like a lot like young girl worships a pop star. I'd like to see her see his dark side directed at her to see Naruto more as he really is. Plus she needs to understand what Naruto's bond to Sasuke means to him. It's good Hinata seems to have accepted Sakura loves Naruto (450) but I'd like to see Hinata grow to be a friend of Naruto not just a girl who worships him, yet has no trust in him to succeed.

[Miss Soupy]

For Hinata herself, she does need a bit of a wake up call, she loves Naruto like a lot like young girl worships a pop star. I'd like to see her see his dark side directed at her to see Naruto more as he really is. Plus she needs to understand what Naruto's bond to Sasuke means to him. It's good Hinata seems to have accepted Sakura loves Naruto (450) but I'd like to see Hinata grow to be a friend of Naruto not just a girl who worships him, yet has no trust in him to succeed.

Uh, you are still justifying Hinata facing Naruto's wrath based on her popularity, which makes no sense. And Hinata doesn't really worship Naruto like a pop star, she likes him because he is a proud failure, far from pop star status. You are wanting Hinata to be placed in the spotlight for some negative growth, which at this point isn't about to happen. The characters shouldn't be going backwards, and really Hinata has done what she wanted to do. Her further place in the story probably wont be all that significant.

as well as not even being aware of Naruto's intense bond to Sasuke- despite even once directly witnessing how hard he was trying to find Sasuke and at least one of his agonized moments when the search failed...

You mean the same way in which Sakura seemed unaware of it recently? Did Sakura not believe Naruto would choose her over Sasuke not too long ago?

Really, it sounds like you want to see negative Hinata merely to make her fans angry. I wouldn't want someone wishing the same thing upon Sakura.

[Derock]

Really, it sounds like you want to see negative Hinata merely to make her fans angry. I wouldn't want someone wishing the same thing upon Sakura.

Majority of the fandom had already done that with Sakura. Even though it won't happen, it will be good idea to see that with Hinata because as I said time and time again, the fandom treats her like a goddess that is destined to be with Naruto, yadda yadda yadda... if Kishi goes on with that route, it can visually send the message to fans he is not focusing on her at all, unless she's needed as she always been, as a support character.

[X105]

The only part that looks bad for narusaku is the "She used naruto's love for her and told him she loved him", and "On the contrary...I felt like depicting an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn impression".

If the translation is correct, the confession appears to be a tool to stop naruto rather than genuine feelings from Sakura.
The thing that seems off is that Sakura came out and said she did not want to make anymore mistakes. Using Naruto's feelings against him to control his actions sounds like a HUGE mistake.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

..^Basing on Sai's words on the manga..and comparing it to the interview, it doesnt make sense

[ciardha]

Majority of the fandom had already done that with Sakura. Even though it won't happen, it will be good idea to see that with Hinata because as I said time and time again, the fandom treats her like a goddess that is destined to be with Naruto, yadda yadda yadda... if Kishi goes on with that route, it can visually send the message to fans he is not focusing on her at all, unless she's needed as she always been, as a support character.

Yes, and why shouldn't Hinata face the consequences of her vote in Naruto's eyes? And yes the focus on her because she made that confession. Hinata fans are wanting Naruto to have a talk with her, so this would do that but with real consequences of her actions. If Sakura has to face consequences for her actions shouldn't Hinata?

Like Derock said, Sakura is already treated that way by the majority of the fandom no matter how heroic and/or compassionate her actions.

Hinata has little personality, even the animators are making fun of that nowadays, everything about her is centered on her adoration of Naruto, look at even Tenten who gets virtually no focus in the manga, but yet she has more depth of character than Hinata. Like I said another time, we know Kurenai stood up to Hinata's father for her, and Hinata was to Kurenai her favorite student by far, but Hinata never showed any evidence that she had any kind of bond to Kurenai or even cared about her welfare. Compare this to even other secondary characters with favorite student to sensei bonds- Shikamaru to Asuma, Lee to Gai, Shizune to Tsunade, etc... In sibling relationships too Hinata seems to have no bond with her sister although Koh strongly suggests Hanabi cares about her sister a great deal. Compare this to other sibling relationships with even other secondary characters, Kiba and Hana had a real and positive sibling bond, and once Gaara stopped being psychotic, the sand siblings obviously all care for each other a great deal, even with Chiyo and Ebizo there was a geniune sibling bond, Tsunade and Nawaki had a strongly positive sibling bond, etc... Even Neiji, once he was able to overcome the rage he felt about what happened to him as a child and what happened to his father, shows a strong concern about Hinata's welfare, but Hinata doesn't seem to return anyone's who cares deeply for her's bond, except to a slight extent to Kiba.

Kishimoto should touch on this issue, and I think it goes back to Hinata focusing everything on Naruto- much moreso than even Sakura at the peak of her Sasuke fangirlism no one else seems to engender an emotional bond for Hinata. This is another reason why Naruto showing his harsh side to Hinata would be a positive thing. It would break her illusion of Naruto.

Pinkheartsyellowstars the only point that does make sense in light of what was said and shown in manga was the part where what Kishimoto supposedly says he thought he was writing Sakura heroic and "I felt like I was depicting an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn impression" that does fit and if he was doing this then Sakura couldn't have been "using Naruto's love for her and told him she loved him." If he was writing her honest and stubborn she couldn't be lying about her feelings. See how it doesn't make sense?

I'm guaranteeing the truth of what Kishimoto said was that he felt he was depicting and honest and girl with a surprisingly stubborn impression but that some readers who were Hinata fans wrote him and attacked Sakura for what they saw as her using Naruto's love, blah, blah, blah. Despite the manipulation of the spoiler people things can be ferreted out if you have the tolerance to try to figure out what little possibly came from Kishimoto. If it doesn't jibe with the manga it's someone's distortion.

Edited by ciardha, 23 December 2009 - 07:51 AM.

[RyrineaHaruno]

The only part that looks bad for narusaku is the "She used naruto's love for her and told him she loved him", and "On the contrary...I felt like depicting an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn impression".

If the translation is correct, the confession appears to be a tool to stop naruto rather than genuine feelings from Sakura.
The thing that seems off is that Sakura came out and said she did not want to make anymore mistakes. Using Naruto's feelings against him to control his actions sounds like a HUGE mistake.

Based on what? The evidence from the manga dose suggest other wise.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 23 December 2009 - 07:51 AM.

[Jenskott]

..^Basing on Sai's words on the manga..and comparing it to the interview, it doesnt make sense

It's because that you shouldn't pay too much heed to this interview. It feels badly translated and it has been translated by a fan, not a professional translator, it doesn't spoil anything or reveal the future of the manga -that will never happen in one interview-, and it doesn't make much sense compared with the manga. And I would not surprised if Kishimoto was trolling the fandom.

It was a complicated scene. She didn't really go with Gato so much as try to keep him alive. She didn't want the men she loved killing each other, as I recall.

You're pretty much right in that the series didn't really have a happy ending. It was gloomy with that one happy little bit at the end to bring spirits up. It's part of why I liked it; the entire conflict, even with Zeon losing again, was costly to Earth. But even so, with all that had happened, people seemed to soldier on and find themselves reunited eventually. It wasn't a happy ending, but it wasn't hopelessly depressing.

Thank you. I watched the OVAs only once in a badly subtitled tape several years ago, so I didn't remember accurately what was said in that scene.

Majority of the fandom had already done that with Sakura. Even though it won't happen, it will be good idea to see that with Hinata because as I said time and time again, the fandom treats her like a goddess that is destined to be with Naruto, yadda yadda yadda... if Kishi goes on with that route, it can visually send the message to fans he is not focusing on her at all, unless she's needed as she always been, as a support character.

Pretty much. I don't necessarily want seeing such an scene or Hinata being put down, but her fandom gets tiresome.

Hinata has little personality, even the animators are making fun of that nowadays, everything about her is centered on her adoration of Naruto,

True. What about her determination for improving and losing being a loser and earning her clan's respect? It used to be an important goal to her. But after Naruto beat up Neji and incidentally managed Hiashi got a change of heart, it haven't been touched again. All her posterior appearances have been focused on her crush on Naruto (althought to be fair, after Konoha got obliterated, she stated "Don't worry about me, Koh. We must tend to your wounds").

[X105]

Based on what? The evidence from the manga dose suggest other wise.

I know...that's what is confusing. If he hates how people view Sakura as "detestable" then why make a comment about her using Naruto's feelings.

Just seems too contradictory to Sakura's current "growing up".

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

It's because that you shouldn't pay too much heed to this interview. It feels badly translated and it has been translated by a fan, not a professional translator, it doesn't spoil anything or reveal the future of the manga -that will never happen in one interview-, and it doesn't make much sense compared with the manga. And I would not surprised if Kishimoto was trolling the fandom.

I agree Jen..

[Jenskott]

I know...that's what is confusing. If he hates how people view Sakura as "detestable" then why make a comment about her using Naruto's feelings.

Just seems too contradictory to Sakura's current "growing up".

Indeed. It's because I'm prone to believe the translation is faulty or unaccurate.

Maybe we are missing the tone or part of information. Maybe he means she loves Naruto and wanted stopping his hurt for confessing to him and pleading him going back to home with her. In that sense she would be "using" his love for her to talk sense into him but it would not make her feelings less genuine or real or true. It would be like a woman seeing her partner engaging in self-destructive behaviour and stating "If you love me, you'll stop this".

Then again, I have never listened to interviews or read databooks. They can be misleading.

[RyrineaHaruno]

I know...that's what is confusing. If he hates how people view Sakura as "detestable" then why make a comment about her using Naruto's feelings.

Just seems too contradictory to Sakura's current "growing up".

Because, this is a fan translation, and in other words not a very good translation. You really, should pay any though to the interview. This is a good example, of "Pay no mind, to the man behind the curtain" thing that goes on in this industry a lot.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 23 December 2009 - 08:51 AM.

[X105]

Because, this is a fan translation, and in other words not a very good translation. You really, should pay any though to the interview. This is a good example, of "Pay no mind, to the man behind the curtain" thing that goes on in this industry a lot.

Agreed. Too bad professional translators for Viz do not cover these interviews, but I understand the U.S and Japan are not always on the same part of the story.

[catsi563]

What worries me is that Kishimoto might turn Sakura submissive and worshipping of Naruto, trying to win over those readers, not realizing that it won't matter what he does, a portion will hate her because she's not Hinata.

I dont think that will happen. in point of fact quite the opposite. Given Narutos reaction hes more likely to turn into a Sakura fanboi than she is a Naruto fangir.

As Naruto and Sakuras realtionship has progressed weve seen theirs and one other relationship progress in much the same way and based on a similar theme.

The theme? Trust and equality.

the other relationship? Sasuke and Karin.

if you studt the Sasuke Karin relationship youll note that Karin is wrongly and very incorrectly labeled a fangirl of Sasukes. However when you study her interactions with him and then compare them to Sakuras pre forest of death interactions with Sasuke, you find that Karin does not even remotley fit the definition of a fangirl.

In truth she has only one really fangirlish moment ((the sceen where she wants to ravish him)) which is done in a comedic contxt as abit of a joke.

the point to this is that throughout her interactions with Sasuke she treats him as an equal not some idolized figure on a pedestal.

Sakura has always treated Naruto much the same way. While she may have put Sasuke ahead of him early on. She is shown very clearly to move naruto up the ladder of her esteem as the manag progresses.

he starts as an equal to her a fellow shinobi if a problemed and annoying one. and slowly but steadilly he rises in her esteem untill he is ahead of her and equal in her eyes to Sasuke as a Shinobi, teamate and friend. while he is not wqual in her heart he does begin to grow into a very special place though. One that is usualy reserverd for sasuke.

It is post shippuden where Sakura finally steps up though and stops seing Naruto and Sasuke as aheaad of her or above her. And starts to see herself on the same platform as them.

As an Equal.

the time is fast approaching where she will now confront Sasuke as an equal. She will do this for the right reasons, to protect Naruto and to confront him about her feelings for him. This will bring a resolution for her on Sasuke and represent a final shift from the Sasuke side of the triangle to the Naruto side of the triangle.

this will open up a new beginning for Sakura who will now have to more directly confront the feelings she clearly has for naruto. and armed with ((wat i hope will be)) several revelations about that bench and what occured on it the day they became a team.

she will be able to stand by his side as an equal, jsut as he will do so with her.

[James S Cassidy]

You know I compared this interview with many past interviews with Kishimoto that I know are real deal, but I realized something that some keep forgetting.

Kishimoto, in all his interviews about the plot of Naruto, always answers his questions with answers what fans expect to hear. When he describes Sakura, for example, it seems like he is not describing her as he would describe her, but how the fans would describe her. "Unpleasant?" That is not something Kishimoto would describe his characters even if it were true to an extent. It seems like when he says stuff like that, he is saying "Yeah I know you say Sakura is unpleasant, but you have to admit when she does do something right you have to admire her. She is much stronger and a better person then you think she is and you have to look at the moments she has done and not what she hasn't."

That's the impression I got. I mean compare his answer about Sakura to an answer he did about Hinata. The most famous one.

Q: I hope Hinata gets her chance.

Kishimoto: Me too.

It seems he doesn't answer the question as the writer of the manga, he answers the question as though he was a fan himself. I am sure some questions he speaks of truthfully are about development and such, but when it comes to answers to fan questions he answers as though a fan would.

It's something I noticed anyway. He knows he is the writer, but puts himself in the shoes of a fan.

[naruto-z]

You know I compared this interview with many past interviews with Kishimoto that I know are real deal, but I realized something that some keep forgetting.

Kishimoto, in all his interviews about the plot of Naruto, always answers his questions with answers what fans expect to hear. When he describes Sakura, for example, it seems like he is not describing her as he would describe her, but how the fans would describe her. "Unpleasant?" That is not something Kishimoto would describe his characters even if it were true to an extent. It seems like when he says stuff like that, he is saying "Yeah I know you say Sakura is unpleasant, but you have to admit when she does do something right you have to admire her. She is much stronger and a better person then you think she is and you have to look at the moments she has done and not what she hasn't."

That's the impression I got. I mean compare his answer about Sakura to an answer he did about Hinata. The most famous one.

Q: I hope Hinata gets her chance.

Kishimoto: Me too.

It seems he doesn't answer the question as the writer of the manga, he answers the question as though he was a fan himself. I am sure some questions he speaks of truthfully are about development and such, but when it comes to answers to fan questions he answers as though a fan would.

It's something I noticed anyway. He knows he is the writer, but puts himself in the shoes of a fan.

yeah, i totally get what you mean. now that i think about it.....kishi does act like a fan in interviews. he answers questions as if he were any other person reading the manga unsure of what is to happen next. sometimes i wonder if kishi actually has a plan on what he's going to write next or if he's just making it up as he goes.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

@James
Yeah, your Right.. I never think about that.
Of course Kishi is just putting himself as a fan. Being Ambiguous still matters for him.

[ciardha]

althought to be fair, after Konoha got obliterated, she stated "Don't worry about me, Koh. We must tend to your wounds").

Which she did nothing to help him, and in fact took advantage of, to escape him to go make her confession to Naruto. See, again it comes back to that problem with Hinata. She doesn't ask about Koh or even have another thought about him.

[Miss Soupy]

Yes, and why shouldn't Hinata face the consequences of her vote in Naruto's eyes? And yes the focus on her because she made that confession. Hinata fans are wanting Naruto to have a talk with her, so this would do that but with real consequences of her actions. If Sakura has to face consequences for her actions shouldn't Hinata?

Like Derock said, Sakura is already treated that way by the majority of the fandom no matter how heroic and/or compassionate her actions.

Oh, I see. Since they do it to us, it's ok for us to do it back? Double standards?

Please, whatever Hinata's fans think of her isn't going to change if you put her in the manga more. Sorry. Kishi already shows she is not that important by keeping her out of the plot for the majority of the story. If they don't think there is a purpose for that, then they never will. Trying to suddenly portray her in a bad light after her huge moment would just be bad writing. It isn't needed. Hinata isn't a complex character on purpose. She was introduced with a clear goal and she basically did what she was created to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

[socermania2]

Here is an alternate translation from a SasuNaru fan (Not biased)

http://forums.naruto...postcount=29566