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QUOTE (dl316bh @ Jul 5 2009, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ah, no worries. I was merely having difficulty seeing how what you said correlated to my post. That and the eyeroll threw me.
This is only if you hold killing by our standards. In the context of the manga, much of it is almost a fact of life for ninja. So I don't hold it in as high a regard in the context of the manga as others may.
The thing about Gaara is that he had a lot rolling against him. He was ostricized and hated by everyone and had the One Tail inside of him. He maimed and killed, yes, but most of the time it was in service to his village. Key words being "most of the time"; even still killing is supposed to be fact of life for ninja, though in the case of most of the Rookie Nine that's debateable considering the path the manga's gone with them.
Sasuke's a much different story. He's never killed anyone, perse, but he's arguably done far worse. He turned his back on his village to join it's greatest enemy. He threw away everything and everyone that cared about him, placing power above anything he had worth a damn. Not only that, but he's shown willingness to kill his friends if necessary. Being a traitor is generally considered deplorable. In his case even moreso; he was not tricked into betraying his village, it was a conscious decision. As we know, in the world of Naruto treachery and treason aren't tolerated. This is all not mentioning how easy he is to manipulate into betraying others; any sane body of order would see him as a liability at this point that's more trouble than he's worth.
Then, of course, he cut off ties with that enemy and ended up joining one even bigger; arguably the enemy of the entire world. What does it really take to redeem something like that? I don't believe he really cares if what he did was wrong; the impression gleaned is that he would probably do it again if given the chance. Even if he were to suddenly have a change of heart, his actions have hurt others immensely either directly or indirectly and the impression given is that he doesn't care.
Even if you want to play fast and loose with what you define to be "redeemable", Sasuke still goes way too far over the line in terms of deplorable actions. As I mentioned earlier, at what point do the sum of your actions bring you beyond such concepts as the redemption of your honor or character? Wherever you place that point, Sasuke has probably jumped the line a long time ago.
I agree, but at the same time it feels like Naruto doesn't face reality in some regards. I could see Naruto continue trying to bring Sasuke back right up until it became impossible, through death or otherwise, because that's just the way he is. The fact that he doesn't seem to truly acknowledge how far Sasuke's gone over the line, however, feels a little ridiculous.
He doesn't have to live in denial over it though. It reminds me of Daredevil from Marvel comics. He harbors no real thoughts that the justice system is perfect and he accepts that, but he believes in it anyway and strives to uphold it as best he can. He holds to his beliefs. I see Naruto in a similar light, he just seems unwilling to accept everything that Sasuke has done and whether he truly can come back or not. Naruto probably could redeem Sasuke in his own eyes, maybe even get him to turn away from the path of evil, but he doesn't seem to acknowledge that there isn't any way that Team 7 will be the way it was again and that things have progressed to a point where there's a good chance that Sasuke can't be redeemed.
Naruto doesn't need to fool himself to continue never giving up.
That would matter more if we saw most of them more than once every fifty chapters. Kind of hard to know what characters think about anything when they're never around.
This is only if you hold killing by our standards. In the context of the manga, much of it is almost a fact of life for ninja. So I don't hold it in as high a regard in the context of the manga as others may.
The thing about Gaara is that he had a lot rolling against him. He was ostricized and hated by everyone and had the One Tail inside of him. He maimed and killed, yes, but most of the time it was in service to his village. Key words being "most of the time"; even still killing is supposed to be fact of life for ninja, though in the case of most of the Rookie Nine that's debateable considering the path the manga's gone with them.
Sasuke's a much different story. He's never killed anyone, perse, but he's arguably done far worse. He turned his back on his village to join it's greatest enemy. He threw away everything and everyone that cared about him, placing power above anything he had worth a damn. Not only that, but he's shown willingness to kill his friends if necessary. Being a traitor is generally considered deplorable. In his case even moreso; he was not tricked into betraying his village, it was a conscious decision. As we know, in the world of Naruto treachery and treason aren't tolerated. This is all not mentioning how easy he is to manipulate into betraying others; any sane body of order would see him as a liability at this point that's more trouble than he's worth.
Then, of course, he cut off ties with that enemy and ended up joining one even bigger; arguably the enemy of the entire world. What does it really take to redeem something like that? I don't believe he really cares if what he did was wrong; the impression gleaned is that he would probably do it again if given the chance. Even if he were to suddenly have a change of heart, his actions have hurt others immensely either directly or indirectly and the impression given is that he doesn't care.
Even if you want to play fast and loose with what you define to be "redeemable", Sasuke still goes way too far over the line in terms of deplorable actions. As I mentioned earlier, at what point do the sum of your actions bring you beyond such concepts as the redemption of your honor or character? Wherever you place that point, Sasuke has probably jumped the line a long time ago.
I agree, but at the same time it feels like Naruto doesn't face reality in some regards. I could see Naruto continue trying to bring Sasuke back right up until it became impossible, through death or otherwise, because that's just the way he is. The fact that he doesn't seem to truly acknowledge how far Sasuke's gone over the line, however, feels a little ridiculous.
He doesn't have to live in denial over it though. It reminds me of Daredevil from Marvel comics. He harbors no real thoughts that the justice system is perfect and he accepts that, but he believes in it anyway and strives to uphold it as best he can. He holds to his beliefs. I see Naruto in a similar light, he just seems unwilling to accept everything that Sasuke has done and whether he truly can come back or not. Naruto probably could redeem Sasuke in his own eyes, maybe even get him to turn away from the path of evil, but he doesn't seem to acknowledge that there isn't any way that Team 7 will be the way it was again and that things have progressed to a point where there's a good chance that Sasuke can't be redeemed.
Naruto doesn't need to fool himself to continue never giving up.
That would matter more if we saw most of them more than once every fifty chapters. Kind of hard to know what characters think about anything when they're never around.
You speak the truth to me and how i feel about Naruto and Sasuke.
QUOTE (NarutoNamikaze @ Jul 5 2009, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I forgot about Susanoo my bad. LOL 
I still Ms can be broken with outside energy, but maybe not.
I still Ms can be broken with outside energy, but maybe not.
Some speculate that Naruto when he temporarily combined Sage Mode and Kyuubi that he broke Negato's Genjutsu and the same could happen with Sasuke. Back to 454 i sure hope something good comes out of the beating Naruto has taken, otherwise Kishi's popularity rate will go down like President Bush.
Edited by 6thHokage, 06 July 2009 - 04:42 AM.
