165 replies to this topic

[surlymoogle]

Speaking of animals- where's Tonton?

I'm actually more concerned about the fate of Tonton that that of Hinata.

(And I miss you, Shizune!)

[Jenskott]

but what would not be acceptable to any reasonable fan would be for her to be cast back into obscurity again and for her sacrafice to go to waste as a mere plot device. its absurd honestly.

Kishimoto giving a character five minutes of glory before cast him/her back in a secondary role and completely ignoring him/her for a long time? Preposterous!

No, I can see it now. Hinata's confession and suicidal lunge can't be a mere plot device. Hinata's important role in the storyline prevents us from even considering that notion! If Hinata alives, then her confession will be accepted and she'll become a main character instead of blending in the background again!

Our worst fears have been confirmed!

Now, seriously. I agree with you, Cat. I don't mind Kishimoto not killing Rookie Nine, but I think Hinata's death would benefit the story and the character. Of course, the author can think that writing her confession and doing away with her straight after would be an easy cop-out to that trouble, and that to properly close that plotline he must write a talk between Naruto and Hinata...

But he can sweep it under the rug, even if she survives. Or he can drag it out for a long time in order to keep fans reading and trying to guess the end.

[canis]

I can see where everyone is coming from, with the survival of the younger generation...
But it's just not that kind of story... Working your hardest will get you where you want to go... If Kishi would have someone die on the way unable to fulfill his goals, where would that hopeful message go?
Hinata confessed, but that doesn't mean her life is fulfilled (God, I hope not D:)... Her real development will start from there, now that she got her issues out of the way. I don't think she will play a major role from now on but I expect her to be able to talk to Naruto and be a friend to him from now on. So I think the bigger picture is more important than a character's death. I expect we will see that growth at the end of the manga, with their future Genin and own children...
Maybe, once Hinata's healed we might get an explanation why she survived (like with Neji, Chouji and Lee).

And in this manga are a lot of people described as the best, the greatest, most techniques, strongest techniques, most ruthless,... You can't take all of it face value. It's a legend made by the people in the story, so not all of it will be true... I don't even take it seriously anymore.
Like Amaterasu's fire... Unextinguishable... Meaning that either noone knew it could be put out, or that up to date noone was able to...

Edited by canis, 28 March 2009 - 10:38 AM.

[Verilance]

i have to disagree with a bunch of these comments

to me Hinata's death would be a cop out because there would be no closure of her confession to Naruto.

The more i think about it this is a moment for growth for Hinata, Naruto and Sakura (if she is the one to heal Hinata and learn of the confession)

I for one and beginning to think Kishimoto is in his studio laughing his @$$ off at all the comments coming from both sides of the debate he wont end this any time soon cuz it keeps the fires burning in the fans

My personal belief is that Hinata will regain her role as heir to the Hyuuga clan before the end of the story since that is the main thing that has driven her life. Through Naruto (btw notice I did not say WITH Naruto) she will achieve this.

Sakura and Naruto have their own goals which they can best achieve together.

Edited by Verilance, 28 March 2009 - 12:01 PM.

[zig-zag-zombies]

i have to disagree with a bunch of these comments

to me Hinata's death would be a cop out because there would be no closure of her confession to Naruto.

The more i think about it this is a moment for growth for Hinata, Naruto and Sakura (if she is the one to heal Hinata and learn of the confession)

I for one and beginning to think Kishimoto is in his studio laughing his @$$ off at all the comments coming from both sides of the debate he wont end this any time soon cuz it keeps the fires burning in the fans

My personal belief is that Hinata will regain her role as heir to the Hyuuga clan before the end of the story since that is the main thing that has driven her life. Through Naruto (btw notice I did not say WITH Naruto) she will achieve this.

Sakura and Naruto have their own goals which they can best achieve together.

You hit the nail on the head right there.

Killing Hinata off right now would leave a loose end there. Naruto would have to sit there pondering her confession and probably feel a lot of guilt over her death and blame himself. With Hinata alive, there can be closure to her confession and we can see Naruto CHOOSE Sakura. It is all about the growth. The growth for Hinata as she finally confesses and moves on. Growth for Naruto as he deals with this in a mature manner and growth for Sakura as she will most likely struggle with jealousy.

I don't think that Kishimoto SHOULD kill off any of the Rookie 9. It would go against the entire theme that he has spent so long putting into place.

I agree that this is more about Hinata growing and moving on, and yes, taking her place as the heir to the Hyuuga clan as that has been the main struggle in her life. In a way, Naruto was simply a way to overcome this obstacle since she saw him overcoming the huge obstacles in his life. In my opinion, that is why she looked up to him and began to admire him. I'm sure that he will support her, but I do not believe that he will love her, as that is completely against the tone that Kishimoto has set throughout the entire manga of Naruto caring for Sakura.

And like you said, Sakura and Naruto have their own goals which they need each other to achieve.

[jworks]

catsi563, beautiful, you shed the light like an angel...it has cooled my head and i can better see a different perspective

very articulate.

I just want to say to Cloud that i meant only that Kishi was Afraid of fan reaction an assumption, otherwise you have concrete evidence of an annoying trend throughout the manga.

Edited by jworks, 28 March 2009 - 02:37 PM.

[Derock]

Hi Jworks Maybe I cna shed a little light on the topic for you.

bear with me a moment. Grnated this is my onw opinion but i think it covers things nicely.

the main issue msot people seem to be taking is that Kishimoto-sensei seems unwilling or unable for some reason to provide deaths for the members of the rookie 9 for some reason.

the common examples given above are Lee, Gaara, Choji, Neji, and now hinata.

Now the thing to understand from my perspective is that I dont believe him to have "copped out" myself.

My reasoning is that untill Hinatas sacrafice. all the prior mentioned people have had moments of near death (choji, neji), or near crippling (lee), or out right death (gaara). where they were saved or brought back with no consequences.

the key though to understand is that each of those moments as I see them though was actually a neccesary survival done in an appropriate context and also that none of those characters would have served the story by dying.

Neji and choji were critical but not dead, and their survival was easilly explainable by virtue of the medical teams sent out by tsunade to pursue the genin. in a way Tsunade assured their survival in that regard.

In Lees case the context was doen in two points. one being Tsunades skill as a medic, and two being lees determination to undergoe a surgery that could have killed him in order to pursue his dream of being a shinobi. LEes successful surgery was needed so he could resume his carreer and interfere in the fight with Kimimaro so Naruto could safely pursue Sasuke.

In gaaras case yes he did die. but he was brought back with a one time ressurection Jutsu that wont be repeated in the series. The point of bringing Gaara back was to showcase the theme of Narutos ability to change people (chiyo making a sacrafice of such magnatude for the kazekage) and to show the passing on of the will of fire and the oldergenerations legacy to the younger generation ((chiyo passing on to Sakura to surpass Tsunade, and for Naruto to become a hokage like no other)

so Gaaras death and subsequent ressurection had both context and emotional resonance.


Now we come to the problem child in this equation. Hinata.

I for one found Hinatas sacrafice perfectly in context with the themes of the manga, and an amazing and highly emotional moment as well as a strong and well written jump of development for a character that quite frankly had no relevance ot the plot since the chunin exam arc.

Had she died immediately or (((barring future chapters)) she dies in Sakuras arms. then the scene would carry a powerful emotional context and resonance for not just Hinata and Naruto, but for multiple characters (( the rookie 9 team guy etc)) but also Konoha as a whole ((especially the Hyuuga clan))

the moment becomes one chalked full of emotional ressonace and can be used as a powerful motviational factor and rallying cry for future chapters as they attempt to avenge Hinata a sweet gentle soul taken too early by a madman.

this would cement her relevance to the plot as well as jump start several plots in the story (naruto and Sakura , the rookie 9 growing up etc)

the issue in question lies in that If ((And thats still a big if)) Hinata survives this moment. then the entire scene becomes a meaning less plot device to send naruto over the edge, and renders her character ((who ahs jsut had this remarkable moment of courage)) into an irrrelevant secondary character whose sole use was as a plot device to make naruto go kyuubi.

the entire scene loses any emotional resoance it had and begins to feel tacked on jsut to give Hinata a chance to look fancy for a moment.

IF thats the case then any nameless chunin, genin or civivlian could have fallen under Peins sword and the effect would have been the same.

one could argue that Naruto was allready close to the edge at that moment. ((village destroyed, jirayia dead, friends hurt, Peins filling his head with doubt, no answers to his questions readilly avialiable))

all these thinsg would be overwhelming enough for anyone much less a poor guys whose been alone all his life. so a callous brutal murder right in front of him would be jsut the thing to push him over the edge.

but anyone would have filled the role nicely with no need for expositon ot emotional baggage added in.

however KIshimoto sensei deliberately drew an ENTIRE PAGE where Pein took his time and stabbed Hinata with a leathal implement.

this brings up another issue which is the stormtrooper syndrome. Where the bad guys can kill swathes of Normals ot seocndary characters, But god forbid they go up against the hero ro his friends, and suddenly they couldnt hit water if they fell out of a boat in the ocean.

So were left ((for the moment )) to beleive that Pein, one of the most powerful ninja in the village capable fo taking down Kakashi Hatake one of the most dangerous jonin in the world, and capable of beating Naruto in Sage mode ((he had him pinned and ready to be slaughtered at a moments notice)) somehow is incapable of stabbing HInata through the heart when she is down unconscious and likely suffering broken bones and internal injuries from being slammed into the ground at high speed?

this is where the main issue is lying with people right now. this sudden confession in an instance that should have the most emotional resoance of any scene in the manga to date.

has been reduced to a mere plot device of convenience.

this is whats driving many people ((myself included )) crazy. weve had an incredible story to this point and suddenly BAM were hit with this.


Now It shoudl be noted that I still am withholding judgement untill I see how he resolves this. she may still die from ehr injuries, she may survive but pass on her confession and will to sakura. either of which would be acceptable to me.

but what would not be acceptable to any reasonable fan would be for her to be cast back into obscurity again and for her sacrafice to go to waste as a mere plot device. its absurd honestly.

I hope this helps you understand a little better. and we can all hope Kishimoto sensei one ups us all in the next few chapters cant we?

EPIC!!! Great post!

While I agree with with mostly all of your points, but as you said there's may a reason for why Hinata has to live. Maybe Kishi is "trying" to promote NaruHina (I'm not saying making canon) BUT, also boosting up NaruSaku even more by making Sakura jealous. Now with that whole confession out of the way and Hinata is growing a spine and we have Sakura, still unsure of her feelings but if we come across a scene that Hinata trying to pursue Naruto and she saw this, it will trigger another rivalry. But eventually, its Naruto who is holding the cards here. While Hinata's confession just hit him, he will respectfully turn her down and still thinking about Sakura.

Now I read other comments about Databook 3 of why there was no heart connection with Naruto ---> Sakura and Hinata ---> Naruto. One of the members explain a good explanation in the Databook 3 thread why and it has something to with the word, development. We just can't have any hearts there now, it will basically say "Its canon!" which spoil the future developments of the next chapters.

[Jenskott]

Personally I understand both stances. I understand why some fans think Hinata should die or it'll be a cop-out, and I understand why other readers think Hinata must live or it'll be a cop-out.

That's the dilemma Kishimoto and any writer always faces: not matter what he/she does, there always will be fans disappointed or even angry fans. He can't please everyone, neither he should.

I don't think he's particularly worried about the reactions of angry fans. He wasn't worried about them when he killed off Jiraiya and Itachi. It's likely he's more concerned about possible INDIFFERENCE than about hypotetical anger.

I think Verilance put it better:

I for one and beginning to think Kishimoto is in his studio laughing his @$$ off at all the comments coming from both sides of the debate he wont end this any time soon cuz it keeps the fires burning in the fans

Exactly. And right like Derock stated, there's one reason because descriptions of feelings in the databook often are contradictory:

Now I read other comments about Databook 3 of why there was no heart connection with Naruto ---> Sakura and Hinata ---> Naruto. One of the members explain a good explanation in the Databook 3 thread why and it has something to with the word, development. We just can't have any hearts there now, it will basically say "Its canon!" which spoil the future developments of the next chapters.

Why does it tell in the chart Sakura likes Sasuke but in her profile describes her feelings like "something similar to love, mixed with admiration"? Moreover, it contradicts former databooks stated she loved Sasuke. And why both the chart and her profile use very ambiguous words and sentences for defining her feelings towards Naruto? The chart states she's worried about him, whereas her profile states she's developed feelings for him she's trying figuring out. If those feelings are mere friendship, why not telling it clearly?

[Nee-sama]

i have to disagree with a bunch of these comments

to me Hinata's death would be a cop out because there would be no closure of her confession to Naruto.

The more i think about it this is a moment for growth for Hinata, Naruto and Sakura (if she is the one to heal Hinata and learn of the confession)

I for one and beginning to think Kishimoto is in his studio laughing his @$$ off at all the comments coming from both sides of the debate he wont end this any time soon cuz it keeps the fires burning in the fans

My personal belief is that Hinata will regain her role as heir to the Hyuuga clan before the end of the story since that is the main thing that has driven her life. Through Naruto (btw notice I did not say WITH Naruto) she will achieve this.

Sakura and Naruto have their own goals which they can best achieve together.

You hit the nail on the head right there.

Killing Hinata off right now would leave a loose end there. Naruto would have to sit there pondering her confession and probably feel a lot of guilt over her death and blame himself. With Hinata alive, there can be closure to her confession and we can see Naruto CHOOSE Sakura. It is all about the growth. The growth for Hinata as she finally confesses and moves on. Growth for Naruto as he deals with this in a mature manner and growth for Sakura as she will most likely struggle with jealousy.

I don't think that Kishimoto SHOULD kill off any of the Rookie 9. It would go against the entire theme that he has spent so long putting into place.

I agree that this is more about Hinata growing and moving on, and yes, taking her place as the heir to the Hyuuga clan as that has been the main struggle in her life. In a way, Naruto was simply a way to overcome this obstacle since she saw him overcoming the huge obstacles in his life. In my opinion, that is why she looked up to him and began to admire him. I'm sure that he will support her, but I do not believe that he will love her, as that is completely against the tone that Kishimoto has set throughout the entire manga of Naruto caring for Sakura.

And like you said, Sakura and Naruto have their own goals which they need each other to achieve.

EPIC! 2 great posts!

In my opinion, i think it's still to early to make accurate guesses. This is kishimoto we are talking about. For all we know, he could lead with an interesting plot twist, then slap us across the face with an even bigger twist that no one would see coming. For now, lets just keep reading, and hope kishimoto doesn't screw this manga up.

Quoted for ambiguous truth. :notworthy:

[catsi563]

Im still of the opinion that Sakuras feelings for Sasuke are rooted in the admiration she felt for him which was changed to love for him when Naruto henged into him and made her dream come true by acknowledging her like he did.

I am going to be very interested to see what happens when this moment is confronted between Sakura and Sasuke.

I believe that this is part of what is driving Sakura right now. the need to confront Sasuke and see why he said such things to her that day, and why he almsot kissed her then suddenly turned on her.

of course for now she doesnt know it was naruto who did all that, but she will when she asks sasuke about it.

that may be why her profile was changed in that fashion. after all being betrayed in that fashion is a big deal for people. it had to hurt her. so I can see why she would still fight for him for the need to resolve once and for all whats between them.

ALso she needs it for Narutos sake as well. to resolve the promise he made her, and her own feelings which are becoming stronger and more known to people.

[Nee-sama]

I thought Sakura figured it was Naruto when he ran off for the second time with an upset stomach. There hasn't been any flashback or any reference at all to that day except for when Sakura recalls Sasuke calling her "annoying" the day he left Konoha. She didn't even hint at the near-kiss. I guess it's open to interpretation, but I always thought that she had realized Naruto's trick.

[catsi563]

I dont think that to be the case because when he ran off the second time she had jsut made the resolution to be nicer to him. also recall that sasuke had jsut left her telling her she was annoying nad had no idea what it was like for naruto to be alone like he was.

At that moment hse had resolved to be nicer to him, and called out to him saying hey lets go back together. In her mind taking a step forward to being a better friend and better understanding with him. and he suddenly runs off acting like a goofball annoying her while shes trying to be nice to him.

I havnet seen any evidence to the contrary that shows she knows and to me at least it is an important enough moment that if she knew Kishimoto sensei would have devoted jsut enough Ink to her saying something like I should have known it was him doing that. or some such.

plus you mentioned no flashback at that scene. i think this reinforces it actually that she doesnt know it was him. I think shes saving that scene as ammo against sasuke. it makes more sence for that scene to come back when she confronts sasuke one more time then to confront naruto with it. at leats she wont confront naruto with it untill after shes confronted sasuke. for whom the scene has context to sakura.

Edited by catsi563, 28 March 2009 - 08:21 PM.

[Dormin]

I know i'ts out of the blue and maby it's a little off-topic, but since you mantioned it.

It freaks me up that you have so many people who are naruhina and sausaku, and yet it was Naruto and Sakura, in the very beagining of the manga who almost kissed! nots Sasuke not Hinata, NARUTO AND SAKURA!
You would have to ask yourself why the hell would he put it there, why did he have valdiate the fact that Naruto truly understood why he loved Sakura.
Everything the writer puts, he puts for a reason.

[Kyuudaime]

It's perception though, some people could say that it would be NaruSaku, some could say SasuSaku, depends on how they look at it.

Although, I suppose the only person's perception whom actually matters would be Kishi's.

[catsi563]

A little fun to laugh at

[Sora no Kitsune]

A little fun to laugh at

O_O............................ THAT.....WAS.......AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jworks]

It's perception though, some people could say that it would be NaruSaku, some could say SasuSaku, depends on how they look at it.

Although, I suppose the only person's perception whom actually matters would be Kishi's.

Agreed. Not every small detail, from drastically separate parts of the manga, can be strewn together to draw an equally drastic conclusion. keep in mind Kishimoto is not making the story up as he goes, he knows what he wants to do with it, and with few people to answer to, which does not include fans, he will do what he wants.

The data books are merely collectibles, they aren't a secret guide to whats going to happen. If you would like to know what happens, patiently read the manga. I am all for discussion about it all and what we would like to happen, but when you persuade yourselves that getting upset and bashing the author you are so inadvertently slave to is anything of worth, you are destroying the story for yourselves.

sit back and enjoy.

[Sora no Kitsune]

Agreed. Not every small detail, from drastically separate parts of the manga, can be strewn together to draw an equally drastic conclusion. keep in mind Kishimoto is not making the story up as he goes, he knows what he wants to do with it, and with few people to answer to, which does not include fans, he will do what he wants.

The data books are merely collectibles, they aren't a secret guide to whats going to happen. If you would like to know what happens, patiently read the manga. I am all for discussion about it all and what we would like to happen, but when you persuade yourselves that getting upset and bashing the author you are so inadvertently slave to is anything of worth, you are destroying the story for yourselves.

sit back and enjoy.

Finally.... someone who knows what their talking about. People are over-thinking everything. People are getting worried just because NaruHina fans are freaking out right now staeing that they "knew they were right" when hinata still has a chance of dying. Kishimoto knows what he's doing and he wouldn't through away the whole manga just to make NaruHina fans happy. I have a feeling that it will work out one way or another and the only way to know for sure is to patiently wait and see rather than acting like its the end of the world.

[Jade Ninja]

Look, Hinata's going to survive. If Kishi wanted her dead, he'd have done it right there in a dramatic fassion. She's gonna live. So there are three possibilities for shipping:

1) (The most probable) No closure. Naruto thanks Hinata for her "sacrifice," and both move on in an awkward but do-able fassion.

2) (the most unnerving) NaruHina happens. You can now throw your computer screens against the wall and sob into your sleeves.

3) (mid-level) Naruto shuts her down, (nicely) and NaruHina takes a step backwards.

Then of course there's my little fantasy. Hinata gets Sakura as a healer, Sakura finds out about Hinata's confession, Hinata snarls through blood-covered lips that Naruto will be hers, then Sakura just...stops healing. Then Naruto teams up with Goku and tears off Sasuke's limbs and beats him to death with them, then goes home, eats a sandwitch, and makes passionate love to Sakura for 8 chapters. Everyone's happy

[SageNaru]

A little fun to laugh at

That was freakin hilarious!!!