122 replies to this topic

[InuhanyouNS]

I actually had a similar thought process as soon as Hinata was revealed to be barely alive, for her to pass on Hinata's will of Naruto to Sakura..Kishimoto stated that Sakura will have to grow up..and this..leaving it all in Sakura's hands would be an accurate representation of that. Sakura's running out of chakra from healing all of the people in her hospital as it is, its not too far fetched to believe that she's run out of chakra or Hinata was too far gone to make it. And as for the people saying "NaruHina would have only happend because Hinata died", its BS because the author makes the rules & scenarios(no matter how unlogical they may seem) and beyond that, Naruto hardly knows the girl on that level anyway, who's to say he'd have returned her feelings had she lived if she were indeed to die?

[Sakura Blossoms]

I don't understand why you think that, True. If Kishimoto planned killing Hinata, then it's obvious Kishimoto never intended NaruHina happened. Hence, even though he didn't kill her, he wouldn't get Naruto and her together.

It's like the "Sakura only befriended/fell in love with Naruto because Sasuke left! If he'd have stayed, never it'd have happened!" argument, which ignores one basic law of storytelling: the author controls absolutely everything what is in the history: world's shape, events, character's personalities and evolution... Why do you think the hero or heroine's attacks always hit the target when he really needs it, but the villain's attacks always fail when he's about of killing the hero/heroine?

Therefore, if Kishimoto planned developing a deep relationship between Naruto and Sakura -and it's my guess that was his intention, given that it'd been happening since the start of the book-, it would have happened, regardless Sasuke leaving or staying.

You expressed everything that I was thinking so very well. Thank you

[NutMan]

I don't understand why you think that, True. If Kishimoto planned killing Hinata, then it's obvious Kishimoto never intended NaruHina happened. Hence, even though he didn't kill her, he wouldn't get Naruto and her together.

It's like the "Sakura only befriended/fell in love with Naruto because Sasuke left! If he'd have stayed, never it'd have happened!" argument, which ignores one basic law of storytelling: the author controls absolutely everything what is in the history: world's shape, events, character's personalities and evolution... Why do you think the hero or heroine's attacks always hit the target when he really needs it, but the villain's attacks always fail when he's about of killing the hero/heroine?

Therefore, if Kishimoto planned developing a deep relationship between Naruto and Sakura -and it's my guess that was his intention, given that it'd been happening since the start of the book-, it would have happened, regardless Sasuke leaving or staying.

Fantastic post! I agree with you 100%. You expressed exactly what I felt.

[True]

I don't understand why you think that, True. If Kishimoto planned killing Hinata, then it's obvious Kishimoto never intended NaruHina happened. Hence, even though he didn't kill her, he wouldn't get Naruto and her together.

I see what you mean, but I'd figure since she confessed there would have been some closure towards it. I mean if she jumped in and said "I want to protect you because you are an important friend" I'd understand but due to her confessing I'd feel that there may (and maybe if Hinata lives) have been more to it where Naruto is allowed to react. One scenario I envision is that Hinata does manage to survive and is hospitalized allowing Naruto the chance to speak with her about her confession and either acknowledge or reject it. Though I guess if Sakura is able to bring closure to Hinata's confession and carry on the message to Naruto to strengthen their connection/bond I'd be fine with it. I still lean towards Hinata surviving, but we'll see what happens later on.

It's like the "Sakura only befriended/fell in love with Naruto because Sasuke left! If he'd have stayed, never it'd have happened!" argument, which ignores one basic law of storytelling: the author controls absolutely everything what is in the history: world's shape, events, character's personalities and evolution... Why do you think the hero or heroine's attacks always hit the target when he really needs it, but the villain's attacks always fail when he's about of killing the hero/heroine?

Therefore, if Kishimoto planned developing a deep relationship between Naruto and Sakura -and it's my guess that was his intention, given that it'd been happening since the start of the book-, it would have happened, regardless Sasuke leaving or staying.

Of course, I hope NaruHina and SasuSaku fans gainsaying me. Even if NaruSaku happens, most of them won't understand why or how happened, and they'll make up excuses of why it shouldn't have happened (right like we'd do if NaruHina happens), instead of accepting the hints NaruSaku fans saw were, indeed, hints. After all, you still find Avatar fans claiming they could rewatch the entire series twice and they'd never see the moment where Katara fell in love with Aang.

I'd figure no matter what happens everyone will have their own interpretation of why a certain pairing occurred or not and as to why they believe it happened. Before Hinata's confession I always thought she admired Naruto as a role model, but held no romantic connection rather more of as someone she sees as an idol. Of course with the previous chapter it has been proven she did have romantic feelings toward him (though its presented now and all of a sudden).

I would have to ask why he decided to bring up the confession now amidst of an important battle. If he intended to use her as a plot device to turn Naruto into the six tails I could understand, but having her say she loved him makes me think there is something more to it. I don't think he'd do it just to appease a fanbase, and will hopefully bring a resolution to it now that it has occurred.

I hope nothing on my argument above sounded like if I'm bashing NaruHina/SasuSaku/Zutara fans, because I can assure that wasn't and isn't my intention at all. If someone felt offended, I'm awfully sorry.

Nope your post was perfectly fine and respectful.

[Derock]

I also hate that. Not matter what Kishimoto does, people always compares it with DragonBall (which they always call DragonBall Z). I'm sorry, but there're more series in the world to draw ideas from, and powerups are usual and frequent in any action/fighting-based manga. Hell, even in sports manga.

Thank you. There are more to the series that meets the eye instead of saying, "Oh it's like Dragon Ball." There is originality here. The only manga I can say that have many similar elements with this is Kishimoto's brother manga, Satan 666 (basically he almost carbon-copied).

I don't understand why you think that, True. If Kishimoto planned killing Hinata, then it's obvious Kishimoto never intended NaruHina happened. Hence, even though he didn't kill her, he wouldn't get Naruto and her together.

It's like the "Sakura only befriended/fell in love with Naruto because Sasuke left! If he'd have stayed, never it'd have happened!" argument, which ignores one basic law of storytelling: the author controls absolutely everything what is in the history: world's shape, events, character's personalities and evolution... Why do you think the hero or heroine's attacks always hit the target when he really needs it, but the villain's attacks always fail when he's about of killing the hero/heroine?

Therefore, if Kishimoto planned developing a deep relationship between Naruto and Sakura -and it's my guess that was his intention, given that it'd been happening since the start of the book-, it would have happened, regardless Sasuke leaving or staying.

I absolutely agree. And many fans don't understand that. From the author, fans want and expect things happening their way (common example: NaruHina, SasuSaku or NaruSasu -I have to add that- canon), not the author's. If you want things your way, here's something, why can't you make your OWN original work and become an author yourself? Develop your own ideas.

[Sir Whirly]

how did I misread that.... geez...

Edited by Sir Whirly, 09 March 2009 - 12:28 AM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Um, Derock, 666 Satan was written by Kishi's twin brother.

Thank you. There are more to the series that meets the eye instead of saying, "Oh it's like Dragon Ball." There is originality here. The only manga I can say that have many similar elements with this is Kishimoto's brother manga, Satan 666 (basically he almost carbon-copied).

I think he knows that, Whirly

[Derock]

how did I misread that.... geez...

Hey, mistakes happen.

[Jenskott]

I see what you mean, but I'd figure since she confessed there would have been some closure towards it. I mean if she jumped in and said "I want to protect you because you are an important friend" I'd understand but due to her confessing I'd feel that there may (and maybe if Hinata lives) have been more to it where Naruto is allowed to react. One scenario I envision is that Hinata does manage to survive and is hospitalized allowing Naruto the chance to speak with her about her confession and either acknowledge or reject it. Though I guess if Sakura is able to bring closure to Hinata's confession and carry on the message to Naruto to strengthen their connection/bond I'd be fine with it. I still lean towards Hinata surviving, but we'll see what happens later on.

Yes, we'll see. We don't even know if Hinata will survive this arc or not, although I think that if she isn't dead yet, then she'll live, unless she has some last words to tell Sakura, Neji or someone else. Unless we have another Asuma scenario, I don't think she'll die.

Personally I think he'll close it quickly, with Naruto rejecting her, or he'll drag it for a long time, wether Naruto accepts her or turns her down, in order to keep the readership's interest.

I would have to ask why he decided to bring up the confession now amidst of an important battle. If he intended to use her as a plot device to turn Naruto into the six tails I could understand, but having her say she loved him makes me think there is something more to it. I don't think he'd do it just to appease a fanbase, and will hopefully bring a resolution to it now that it has occurred.

I don't know. Adding more drama to the moment/death? Spicing up the already existent love triangle (Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke)? Closing that dangling plot thread in an admitedly awkward fashion? If Hinata dies (a big "if", I know that), then it's obvious why he got her telling it. It was now or never. If she lives, then he can bring closure to that plotline, with Naruto rejecting her or pondering over her and his feelings before reaching one decision.

I really hope Kishimoto isn't writing his manga in odrder to appeasing or pleasing a fanbase, either NaruHina or NaruSaku.

Thank you. There are more to the series that meets the eye instead of saying, "Oh it's like Dragon Ball." There is originality here. The only manga I can say that have many similar elements with this is Kishimoto's brother manga, Satan 666 (basically he almost carbon-copied).

Long ago I read originality isn't creating something new, but it was blending previously existent elements in a new fashion. You can see this with Sailor Moon: animes telling stories of young girls wielding magic powers, often using rods or devices for transforming themselves, and going around with a animal-shaped mentor/watcher have existed since the sixties. But Naoko Takeuchi gave them a new spin, introduced Super Sentai series elements, and created somethning different.

It's annoying when I read Naruto-haters claiming Naruto is nothing but elements ripped from better animes and welded together in a series of ninjas know nothing about being ninjas. Not only because telling "better animes" is very subjective, but also because... everything is a stereotype right now. Those so-called better animes are so full with clichés and stereotypes like Naruto, and it doesn't mean they are ripping from other series or they're bad.

It's very hard being original right now, and personally I think Naruto does a good try of taking elements of Japanese folklore and old anime ninjas without losing personality. Check this video if you want:

Sarutobi Sasuke

(I used to rent tapes of this series way back in the eighties)

It seems familiar, doesn't it? It should. Yet you can't have this anime mistaken with Naruto, despite of both series take old folktales about ninja's skills. Same ingredients, different recipe.

Moreover, how many ninja-themed animes were being aired when Naruto started? Not many.

Besides, the books or comics people uses to bring for comparing Naruto with are too new for telling Kishimoto was influenced by them. Harry Potter, Gundam Seed, One Piece... Kishimoto was a kid back in the eighties, so he must mainly be influenced by the eighties mangas, and not only Dragon Ball: Akira (why did no one think of that movie when Pain blew Konoha to bits? Well, to be fair I also thought of Hiroshima, but...), Saint Seiya, Gundam (the first seasons), Hokuto no Ken...

In fact, in Hokuto no Ken a character tells: "I think Rao (one of the main villains) wanted uniting the world and ending the violence so other man could rule in his stead. But terror can't bring a true peace". Sincerely, it reminded me of Pain, his goals and his ideals.

In a nutshell, Naruto is so full with stereotypes like any series, but Kishimoto manages being somewhat original and mixing old cliches in a new and unexpected fashion. And it's annoying and tiresome when people assumes EVERYTHING in Naruto is ripped from Dragon Ball and he took everything from Dragon Ball, ONLY.

I absolutely agree. And many fans don't understand that. From the author, fans want and expect things happening their way (common example: NaruHina, SasuSaku or NaruSasu -I have to add that- canon), not the author's. If you want things your way, here's something, why can't you make your OWN original work and become an author yourself? Develop your own ideas.

And then you can learn how Kishimoto feels when someone says: "You're dumb for doing this! You should do want I want instead. Maybe then your story would be good".

[Nee-sama]

I know this is kind of out of the blue, but I just realized some things about this chapter are different than what I first thought.
After 6-tails pushed Pain back he jumps after him and prepares his chakra nuke blastor at point blank range. He also didn't charge it with his tails or swallow it like before but I digress. In the instant that Naruto fires the blast, the boulder Pain has thrown hits Naruto in the side of the head (which we already knew). Sowhat I had thought was that the chakra exploded in Naruto's face but what actually happened was the blast was deflected off to the right. By saving himself, Pain actually spared the hokage mountain as well as all the people that are probably hiding inside it. See Pic. This put the concentration of the blast outside the central crater sparing Hinata and probably everyone else as well.

[Onionhead Attacks]

I know this is kind of out of the blue, but I just realized some things about this chapter are different than what I first thought.
After 6-tails pushed Pain back he jumps after him and prepares his chakra nuke blastor at point blank range. He also didn't charge it with his tails or swallow it like before but I digress. In the instant that Naruto fires the blast, the boulder Pain has thrown hits Naruto in the side of the head (which we already knew). Sowhat I had thought was that the chakra exploded in Naruto's face but what actually happened was the blast was deflected off to the right. By saving himself, Pain actually spared the hokage mountain as well as all the people that are probably hiding inside it. See Pic. This put the concentration of the blast outside the central crater sparing Hinata and probably everyone else as well.

Wow... very perceptive and very good eyes! So that's great for the villagers who are hiding in there

[SageNaru]

I know this is kind of out of the blue, but I just realized some things about this chapter are different than what I first thought.
After 6-tails pushed Pain back he jumps after him and prepares his chakra nuke blastor at point blank range. He also didn't charge it with his tails or swallow it like before but I digress. In the instant that Naruto fires the blast, the boulder Pain has thrown hits Naruto in the side of the head (which we already knew). Sowhat I had thought was that the chakra exploded in Naruto's face but what actually happened was the blast was deflected off to the right. By saving himself, Pain actually spared the hokage mountain as well as all the people that are probably hiding inside it. See Pic. This put the concentration of the blast outside the central crater sparing Hinata and probably everyone else as well.

Wow. Good eyes. I only spotted the rock that Pein hit 6 Tails in the back of the head with and saved himself. But I thought he got the Hokage monument. But I stand corrected.

[Jenskott]

You do know that most of the legends and myths used in Naruto have been used hundreds of times in hundreds of other series.

Yes, I know that. Actually I was telling that. So what?

With those other series usually pulling them off better.

Not "usually". Some of them pulled them off better, some of them pulled them off worse. I endeavour to remove my nostalgy googles when I compare newer series with older series. Regrettably, I'm not always sucessful, but I try to remember only because I've grown with a show, it doesn't mean it's better.

Several friends of mine used to watch He-Man and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles when we were children back in the eighties. But we know better than telling the current remakes are better.

Naruto isn't some original, genius master work of literature.

Indeed. I have never claimed that, and I'd laugh if I saw such a claim.

It kinda annoys me when people claim it is so sorry for sounding harsh about it, but that's just how I feel.

Just laugh it off when you read/hear that. I've seen people lifting Toriyama up to the level of of master of world literature where Cervantes and Shakespeare are at. You know how obsessive fanboys and fangirls get. It's nothing to get worked off.

You're sounding harsh, but I'm not offended. I just think you're taking it a tad too seriously. They're only comics, pal.

On the other hand, I HOPE not sounding too harsh.

and it kinda does rip the element system from pokemon.

Huh? No, it doesn't. Wind isn't stronger than Fire in Pokemon, Water beats Fire AND Ground, and Lightning doesn't beat Ground but it beats Wind. Actually, Kishimoto has got criticism by NOT following Pokemon rules, like if he must feel tied by them.

What it rips off? Water beating Fire? Then Pokemon has ripped that from other series, as well. And real life. Using your own words, I'm sure you know Pokemon didn't invent elemental wheels. It's been used hundred of times in hundred of cartoons and videogames. Hell, Chinese folk already used elemental wheels.

Sorry but I find Hunter x Hunter and One Piece far more original and creative, but again that's just my opinion.

And I respect your opinion, but objectivally they aren't far more original and creative. They are made with hundred of archetypes and cliches have also been used hundred of times in hundred of series. They are just so cliche as Naruto, and intend to appeal to the same segment of public. You can think One Piece is more original because you don't see many pirate-themed animes, but trust me, it isn't more original than Naruto.

And personally I find Hunter X Hunter pretty boring.

On topic this chapter like the last one just plain pisses me off. It's like some nine year old from fanfiction.net with the username "ILUVNARUHINA4EVER55" is writing this series now, and I for one am disgusted that people are viewing this crappy piece of writing as being good development. Hinata's confession should have come at some other point while someone with a closer bond to Naruto should have been the sacrifice. Like Iruka or Konohamaru.

437 seemed like a fanfic (although Hinata uses filler jutsus in such fanfics), but 438 not. Besides, I was very happy with Sakura taking charge.

You and I can argue about Hinata's confession feeling rushed and out of place, and about who should have got killed, surmissing she's being done away with. But you and I don't write the series, we have no authority for making such decissions, and I think Kishimoto must be quite irritated with people telling him how making his job and bashing his manga before having ever read the chapters or seen how it all pans out.

Please, don't take offense, but really you should calm down. Comics aren't a big deal. Wait and see how it pans out. And if you're so fed up with the series it gives you unnecessary and unwanted distress, quit reading. It wouldn't be the first series starts great and becomes garbage, and it wouldn't be the last one.

You mentioned Hunter x Hunter. I've read another Togashi's manga: Yu Yu Hakusho. I gave him one chance but before the Dark Tournament I was already getting disappointed. I read the remainder volumes, and it was a letdown.

Not a big deal.

EDIT: I think I see what you're saying though, but it seems to me though that the Naruto series adapts too much from other series instead of branching out on it's own and making it's own mark.

Well, opinions are opinions.

[Jenskott]

Well I mis read what you said at first, but then corrected myself.

Then let's call it a misunderstanding and forget about it.

Well I would say Basilisk and Samurai Deeper Kyo pulled off the ninja aspect better. Not to mention Rurouni Kenshin.

I only can comment about Rurouni Kenshin because I haven't read the remainder.

I'm not sure about the realism of ninja in Rurouni Kenshin, but I'll agree they are more realistic in account of Rurouni Kenshin actually TRYING being more realistic than Naruto.

If you want real-alike ninjas, honestly, read a seinen manga like Legend of Kamui or Lone Wolf and Cub. I guarantee you real ninjas and writing very superior to any shonen manga BY FAR.

Edit: And now I think about it, you were talking about pulling off specific stereotypes/themes, not about making a more real-life series. Pulling the aspect ninja better doesn't mean making more realistic ninjas. They are two different things. Have you ever watched the Ninja Scroll film? I'd never call it realistic, but they pull off the aspect ninja very well, IMO.

I can't even begin to consider them ninja in Naruto. Mainly cause if you're going around walking through other villages besides your own hidden one wearing your headband in broad daylight and proclaiming yourself a ninja... and people can TELL you're a ninja just from wearing the headband. Then you really aren't a ninja. The thing about real ninja is that they did a good job at NOT exposing themselves like that.

You're forgetting the part where they clone themselves, breath fire and glue themselves to walls.

They don't seem real ninjas because Kishimoto never intended doing a story about real ninjas. He created a version of ninjas specially tailored to the universe he was creating, giving them skills old legends granted to ninjas and making up the half of the stuff.

Naruto's ninjas behave right like ninjas should behave in that universe. They don't act like real world ninjas? Sure, but they aren't real world ninjas. They are comic-book ninjas.

I'll try explain my POV with an example. I don't know if you have read Marvel or DC comic-books. Characters in those worlds parade around wearing gaudy costumes and fighting bad guys because, if you gain powers, it's expected you battle crime or become a criminal.

That behavior makes no sense in our world. No one is/would be like that. But those characters live in worlds where it's logical and acceptable.

Each comic-book has its own set of rules, and the reader must accept them if he want enjoying it. Otherwise, he shouldn't be reading it. It's absurd you read a magic-themed book if you don't like magic stories.

Well Toriyama may be one of the top manga writers, but you really can't compare comic books to real literature. I just get tired of people making Naruto out to be some kinda super deep, psychological thriller full of symbolism. I used to believe that stuff until a couple years back when I realized that it wasn't deep or psychologically thrilling, and the symbolism was just me looking way too deep into it. Especially when it came to pairings. Which is why I sort of quit the pairing wars.

I don't know why you'd think that. This is a action/fighting manga aimed at young teens. It doesn't intend being psychologically thrilling or unfathomably simbolic. It never did, and I never regarded it like such.

I'd argue I can find some deep if I look for it, but this is basically a fantasy story. Besides, it's a matter of opinion. Many people finds Evangelion incredibly deep and symbolic. I don't find it deep or symbolic AT ALL.

Now, some people thinks it's overrated. I only can speak for myself, but it's one of the FEWER current mangas I read nowadays because the most of the current series can't hold my interest at the slightest. And I'm not overrating it when I tell that. I tell how I'm feeling.

I'm not trying to sound harsh. I may have grown a fiery personality, but I'm still the nice guy I've always been. I'm just no longer afraid to say what I think cause a man doesn't back down from anything. Doesn't mean I'm taking it seriously either. But no you don't sound harsh.

I don't see it like a matter of not being afraid, but of knowing when let it go because it isn't something worth to argue about or get pissed off about.

Well I guess I was a bit strong there. It's not a ripoff per se, but it's pretty damn close. I can see why he did get criticism though considering lightning shouldn't have beaten ground the way Sasuke beat Deidara.

I don't see how you can tell it's a Pokemon ripoff, when hundred of series have used charts of elemental strengths and weaknesses, and it doesn't follow Pokemon rules at all.

This is a fictional story, so if I can suspend my disbelief when I see a twelve-year old beating an adult in a fist fight, spewing flames or mud or summoning talkative giant animals, I can suspend it about lightning beating ground.

And I can even rationalize it. Lightning-based chakra can be sharp enough to slice through a boulder. And the energy of a lightning bolt exploding can be powerful enough to scorch or break a rock.

But it's how those series handle the archetypes and cliches. Naruto hasn't handled them well at all as far as I could see. Too many of them either come out of the blue or are completely obvious. All I'm saying is that I've found other series to handle those archetypes and cliches better. Even if you find them boring they still come off as being more original. But I do respect your opinion nonetheless.

Well, that's your opinion based on your own perceptions and bias, right like I have mine based upon the same things.

Luffy, Nami, Zoro, Ussop, Sanji... I can't even count how many times I've seen characters like them. They seem completely obvious to me, and not original at all. If I, you or someone else can see past the stereotype and find enjoyment in those characters and situations, it's a different matter.

On the other hand... When I found characters like Sakura, Chôji, Lee or Sasuke, I recognized the stereotypes they were based on. Though he author surprised me with them. And he surprised me very nicely in several instances.

But we don't need authority to judge the series like that. If I feel that something is badly written I'm gonna point it out and criticize it. You can't just be positive about every single development. Maybe you see it differently but I'm going by a literary standpoint. I know what you're going to say. That I should wait and see how things turn out, but the damage was already done in my opinion. No matter how this turns out this development with Hinata has to be the stupidest thing he's done in this manga since the hundred chapters where Sasuke was the main character, and Naruto just sat around helping Konohamaru perfect his yuri jutsu.

Forgive me, but I'm going to be clear here: we can tell what we like or not, but we have ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY to tell the author what he should do or how he should do it. It has nothing to do with the impossibility of being positive about everything, and it's everything to do with an entirely unjustified sense of self-entitlement.

And let's be clear here. Sasuke becoming the main character is another fandom myth. From the end of Part I to the Uchiha arc there's one hundred plus chapters. And he barely showed up on one handful of them, despite he's one of the main characters, and involved many plotlines. Therefore, he got one arc where he got more exposure because it was necessary. And it only lasted fifty+chapters, not one hundred. I know it seemed longer because it dragged out, but let's not exagerating.

I must have missed the part where Naruto sat around helping Konohamaru perfecting his yuri jutsu because I don't remember that at all. However I remember Naruto fighting Akatusukis, looking his best friend and training for becoming stronger.

I'm sorry if I 've sounded somewhat hostile here, but I'm sick of hearing complains I find utterly unfounded when I examine the story. Naruto never stopped being the main character, and the fandom has completely overblown Sasuke's exposure. The funny part is they complained and whined about it, but they've been wondering about Sasuke since the focus on him stopped.

Honestly I've been fed up with the series since after the rescue Gaara arc, and yet I punish myself every week hoping this series will get back to being good again. Throughout this time I always felt that whilel the Sasuke thing is pretty stupid, but at least he'll never adapt a NaruHina fanfic into the series. Not even he's THAT stupid. Meh he proved me wrong there. It's just the last straw in a long list of things that have pissed me off about part 2. I could put up with any crappy development except this. After all I put up with everything Sasuke related not to mention Hidan and Kakuzu's defeat. Plus the crappy way he handled the other Jinchuuriki's, but that was fine. I could live with that. I can't live with this development. What Hinata did should not have happened, and while KN6 is cool and his fight with Pein is pretty awesome. It still pisses me off that Kishimoto made her the trigger when Naruto never lost his cool for Jiraiya, Kakashi, Tsunade, or Konoha. There's just no excuse that he doesn't lose his cool over those things yet he does over a character he's barely ever interacted with. To me that's just bad writing, and I know you think I'm taking my comic books seriously, but it's only because I'm looking at this from a literary standpoint.

Honestly, if you're so fed up with the series and you've been for so long, you should quit. You'll do yourself a favor. Please, don't take offense, but I think you're so annoyed you'll criticize anything the man does, not matter what. Therefore, the series will never get good to you again because your mindset is it's crap and will go on being crap.

By the way, I think insulting someone you don't know because he wrote something you didn't like is pretty offensive. I can not like everything that person does, but I try avoiding personal insults.

Adapting a NaruHina fic? Where did he do that? I know chapter 437 seemed like one, but I've seen them even cornier.

Anyway she wasn't the trigger but the final straw. Pain brutally murdered a friend in front of him as he was helplessly pinned on the ground. Ponder how useless, when helpless and how guilty he would feel. Now consider he was distraught with doubts and pain, thinking maybe his dreams and goals were the fantasy of a child or a fool. Now remember those negative, dark emotions piled up onto the rage he was feeling cause Jiraiya, Konoha, Kakashi and Tsunade.

Honestly, it's NOT a wonder he snapped.

I'm sorry, but while I can understand complains about Hinata jumping in and proclaiming her love all of sudden, I perfectly understand because he lost his cool. You have to see the complete picture.

I have one funny story about complains related to Part II. I was enjoying the manga until I started going into forums (when Uchiha's arc was beginning), reading opinions and finding complains and more complains. My enjoyment was diminishing and I started to read each chapter with trepidation and dread, expecting finding something to complain about.

Then I started reading again Hidan and Kakuzu arc, looking for flaws when suddenly I remembered I had no troubles with that arc when I read it the first time around. Then I realized I had allowed myself being influenced by the fandom, I had allowed his opinions altering mine. When I realized that, I forced myself to forget what complains I had heard and simply read it. And I found I liked the fights. Oh, there were flaws, alright, but I didn't found so many nor so severe ones like many people tells (and I realized many fans simply repeat what they had heard).

And then I reread Deidara vs Sasuke's fight and I noticed it seems way better when you read the entire thing instead of one chapter each week.

Then I decided never again I'd allow that. It isn't that I can't tolerate someone else's opinion, it's I want making up my own opinions, and I refuse telling something only because everybody elsee apparently are telling it. I want enjoying the manga, and if I spend the whole time listening to fandom whines, I won't do that because I'll be pondering if they're right or not until I go mad. I want developing my own opinions instead of adopting someone else's complains.

Moreover, I'm sorry telling it, but many complains are so... lame. Of course the manga has -plenty- flaws. And it's not wrong pointing out things you don't agree with. But to find justified, valid, well-thought complains I have to wade through an ocean of ambiguous statements, preconceived ideas and rushed judgements and base ignorance of the principles and dynamics a shonen manga is founded upon.

I preffer making up my own mind.

If I had to say this development was good then I might as well say Bleach is one of the best written series ever.

I'd never call Bleach or Naruto one of the best written series ever. But I've always thought Bleach was better than Naruto. Always.

I don't know what it'll tell you about my personal likes and preferences, but that's like it's.

As for Yu Yu Hakusho. I actually liked that series. I even found that better written.

I don't. The two first volumes were boring, but I went on reading, thinking the series would pick up after them. The next arcs were more entertaining but nothing to blow me over. I expected something better from a classic shonen manga.

And then I read the two last arcs and I felt disappointed because so much the writing like the art were getting worse. Incredibly worse. It felt like if the man wasn't trying anymore, and he wanted finishing the manga right away, instead.

Again, my opinion.

Yeah that's true... Look I'm sorry if I offended you too or if I sound too harsh, but as I said it's not cause I'm taking my comic books far too seriously or anything.

You haven't offended me. I think you're wasting your time with a series obviously you don't enjoy anymore, and you'd be better off moving on other hobbies deserve your time and your money. Of course, I'm not telling you what doing or what spending your money with. It's only an advice.

Likewise, I'm not trying offending you, and I respect your opinions, even if I don't share them or agree with them.

Edited by Jenskott, 11 March 2009 - 06:25 PM.

[Nee-sama]

They say that nothing is original anymore. Every concept that is being shown in movies and literature has been thought of or used before. Even in art, the only way you're going to create something totally new is by going wild or wildly abstract. I am the crazy person you can rag on for thinking that Kishi has produced a genius and unique series because Naruto has captured my attention like nothing else ever before. I never could sit and watch a single Dragonball episode from start to finish, Harry Potter movies were enough for me; never read the books (and I do enjoy reading), and other anime just can't get me hooked even if I think they have a good plot. Maybe it's just me. When the elemental wheel was introduced in Naruto I was elated because it was just like the wheel in FFXI, I wasn't mad because I thought he "copied" from it. I was like hey, what a coincidence, that's kinda cool~ But maybe it's just me.

Anyway, trying my hardest not to read the spoilers this time! Just gotta hang in there til tomorrow night.. I can do it! I think...

[Jenskott]

They say that nothing is original anymore. Every concept that is being shown in movies and literature has been thought of or used before. Even in art, the only way you're going to create something totally new is by going wild or wildly abstract.

Pretty much.

I am the crazy person you can rag on for thinking that Kishi has produced a genius and unique series because Naruto has captured my attention like nothing else ever before.

Right like I told Aethos, I'd never call it unique or a genius work. I'd not call it the best manga/comic ever (I'd not call any manga that). Not even it's my favorite manga. But it's been years since I've found a manga where I was impatient for reading the next chapter.

I never could sit and watch a single Dragonball episode from start to finish, Harry Potter movies were enough for me; never read the books (and I do enjoy reading), and other anime just can't get me hooked even if I think they have a good plot.

Not all of my favorite mangas have a great, complicated plot. Often they have a simple story. But that story is engaging, and the characters and situations hook me up. Ranma 1/2, Saint Seiya, Dragon Ball, Hokuto no Ken, Kimagure Orange Road, Slam Dunk, Rurouni Kenshin, Touch... I want learning more about those characters and their lives and reading their adventures.

Maybe it's just me. When the elemental wheel was introduced in Naruto I was elated because it was just like the wheel in FFXI, I wasn't mad because I thought he "copied" from it. I was like hey, what a coincidence, that's kinda cool~ But maybe it's just me.

Sincerely I think your mindset is the proper one. Instead of trying guessing what comic/film/game he's ripped something from and raving about it, you try enjoying the comic for what it is.

Anyway, trying my hardest not to read the spoilers this time! Just gotta hang in there til tomorrow night.. I can do it! I think...

I'm making the same thing. I've got back my former mindset for not reading spoilers. Usually it's a waste of time and an unncessary hassle. I'll read the chapter when it comes out.

[SageNaru]

Spoilers out. Everyone go check it out.