122 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

That actually is a good point. But I would also like to add to that. Not only was Sakura rarely used in fight scenes, but also she has a very mundane and one note power set that does not make for interesting fights nor can measure up to other more over the top supernatural abilities that pop up in the series. How does super strength and healing measure up to to powers like Rasenshuriken, Amaterasu, etc.? If she was more Like Guy and Lee and had uniqueness to her Taijutsu and became a physical threat to the likes of Madara and Obito then maybe the complaints would die down.

 

Like an example of a fascinating  tsundere that has fight scenes and a great and interesting power set for the setting she is in is Noelle from Black Clover. She has Water magic which seems mundane but her magic power is vast and she has spells for both offensive and defensive situations. so she has the ability And grit to stand beside Asta as both a love interest and as an equal.

 

But I digress, that does not explain the double standards of why Sakura is so hated though. Hinata is EVEN LESS USED in fight scenes than Sakura is and loses all personal fights she is in except against fodder and does not show to be a strong willed or determined girl like feminists like. Yet why is she so well loved?

Edited by Phantom_999, 30 July 2018 - 11:47 PM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

That actually is a good point. But I would also like to add to that. Not only was Sakura rarely used in fight scenes, but also she has a very mundane and one note power set that does not make for interesting fights nor can measure up to other more over the top supernatural abilities that pop up in the series. How does super strength and healing measure up to to powers like Rasenshuriken, Amaterasu, etc.? If she was more Like Guy and Lee and had uniqueness to her Taijutsu and became a physical threat to the likes of Madara and Obito then maybe the complaints would die down.

 

Like an example of a fascinating  tsundere that has fight scenes and a great and interesting power set for the setting she is in is Noelle from Black Clover. She has Water magic which seems mundane but her magic power is vast and she has spells for both offensive and defensive situations. so she has the ability And grit to stand beside Asta as both a love interest and as an equal.

 

But I digress, that does not explain the double standards of why Sakura is so hated though. Hinata is EVEN LESS USED in fight scenes than Sakura is and loses all personal fights she is in except against fodder and does not show to be a strong willed or determined girl like feminists like. Yet why is she so well loved?

Because she has boobies. 

[totherpage95]

That actually is a good point. But I would also like to add to that. Not only was Sakura rarely used in fight scenes, but also she has a very mundane and one note power set that does not make for interesting fights nor can measure up to other more over the top supernatural abilities that pop up in the series. How does super strength and healing measure up to to powers like Rasenshuriken, Amaterasu, etc.? If she was more Like Guy and Lee and had uniqueness to her Taijutsu and became a physical threat to the likes of Madara and Obito then maybe the complaints would die down.
 
Like an example of a fascinating  tsundere that has fight scenes and a great and interesting power set for the setting she is in is Noelle from Black Clover. She has Water magic which seems mundane but her magic power is vast and she has spells for both offensive and defensive situations. so she has the ability And grit to stand beside Asta as both a love interest and as an equal.
 
But I digress, that does not explain the double standards of why Sakura is so hated though. Hinata is EVEN LESS USED in fight scenes than Sakura is and loses all personal fights she is in except against fodder and does not show to be a strong willed or determined girl like feminists like. Yet why is she so well loved?

I know a feminist that likes hinata because she is shy and adores naruto which she related to.

[Phantom_999]

double standards don't you think?

[hisaberpie]

Not gunna lie, i thought naruto and hinata would be cute together back in part 1 but then shippuden happened and i cringed so hard at hinatas confession.

As for sakura, i really liked her in part 1 even though she was a sasuke fan girl and started loving her after her fight in the forest of death. I feel like people dont talk about that fight scene enough. Sakura took on 2-3 people all on her own with nothing but academy level jutsus. She cut her hair and got beaten to a bloody pulp but she never gave up trying to protect her team mates and lee and i found that very admirable.

Im convinced hinata wouldve given up if she were in sakuras position and she had to protect her teammates. Cuz you know, kiba and shino arent naruto and not worth fighting for. In fact, i think the only reason she stood up to neji was because naruto-kun was watching..

Anyways, i feel like people really over look sakuras first actual fight when they hate on her. In that fight, she showed that she was brave and selfless and willing to go to any length to save her teammates. I also think that that fight had the only true sasusaku moment in the entire series. If naruto had seen sakura fighting for him and sasuke, im sure his love for her wouldve increased tenfold.

[Phantom_999]

What gets me is that even back in part I I didn't see Hinata having a chance. Mainly because I just knew for a fact Naruto wouldn't be the right guy for her either way because of how unsuited their personalities were for each other. Hinata was shy, submissive, and timid, while Naruto was outgoing, loud, and boastful. Even back when I was a kid I did not necessarily believe in the whole "opposites attract" thing, or At least I never thought such romances would last, and that was before I could properly evaluate why I thought that way and I'll explain how I see it now.

 

First off We all know Naruto is hyperactive, socially dull and does not fathom on how to behave around authority figures nor does he show respect to political figures. And because of how harsh, lonely and incredibly bitter his childhood was, he would never compromise who he is, and would probably not change. And that in lies the problem with Hinata. No matter how nice and forgiving a person is, it is not a healthy relationship if there is no compromise or equality of any level.  Who here is even REMOTELY surprised that Hinata for all intents and purposes lets Naruto walk all over her almost all of the time? Not me, that is for sure. And surprise surprise, the relationship turned out just as I expected,  SP's fantasy input of Hinata being a SCARY MOM delusion aside. Hinata does not rein Naruto in, and if Naruto acts out, she just smiles and passively lets it slide. I  always thought that their relationship would be incredibly dull and unfulfilling and guess what? I WAS RIGHT. Go figure

 

Same thing with Sakura, she lets Sasuke walk all over her and is the "sole significant other" compromising and contributing anything to the relationship, and in fact Sakura's case is even worse. WHAT IS WORSE ABOUT Sakura's case, you ask? She is not even this passive and quiet in a regular setting. She shows the traits of an outgoing and emotionally strong girl when things get tough and won't take abuse or mistreatment from ANY MAN. But Sasuke is the SOLE EXCEPTION because he is handsome and sexy, and whenever Sakura gazes at his beautiful face, her hearts goes "doki doki"!!!!!!!     

 

That is what pisses me off more than anything with these so called "canon pairings". "The full on, obnoxious, die hard, "cutthroat if anyone else tells them otherwise" fans of these couples think that these marriages are some fantasy fairy tale dream come true just because they assume "bad boy falling for sweet nice girl that mends his heart, or girl who has always loved a boy and finally is rewarded for her patience, when said boy starts to notice her (when she finally starts blooming) is romantic!!!!!" When in fact real life romance has nothing to do with those things. Real romance is built on a a strong and solid friendship more than anything. It is built on mutual trust, understanding, and compromise. Sure in SS and NH the WOMEN do all those things, but do the men?  where do you see a mutual friendship, equal treatment, respect, and encouragement from both parties? Why, NaruSaku of course! DUH.    

Edited by Phantom_999, 15 August 2018 - 11:00 PM.

[DrK]

Im convinced hinata wouldve given up if she were in sakuras position and she had to protect her teammates. Cuz you know, kiba and shino arent naruto and not worth fighting for. In fact, i think the only reason she stood up to neji was because naruto-kun was watching..

100% she would have forfeited the match if Naruto didn't say anything. It's not really even up for interpretation. Hinata Hyuga = spineless coward.

[Bail o' Lies]

100% she would have forfeited the match if Naruto didn't say anything. It's not really even up for interpretation. Hinata Hyuga = spineless coward.

That was made clear even when he said it; that if he didn't start cheering for her right then & there she would have given up right at the very moment. In fact, the reason everyone else said nothing is because they realize how outmatch she was, and thought it was for the best if she just dropped out. Hell, the match was so one-sided that at one point Sakura tried to gently tell Naruto to stop because it was clear his cheering is the only thing that was making her continue even though it was pointless. 

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 06 August 2018 - 12:07 AM.

[tricksie]

The thing that sucks for Hinata fans as well as Sakura fans is that both characters got their story development ripped away from them in the end. For both characters, their challenges, successes and development were, in the end, meaningless. Both Hinata and Sakura got nothing from them. They just ended up as token arm candy. And actually, in some ways, I think hinata lost even more than Sakura — Hinata gave up her clan position, her respect, her standing up to Neji early on then standing beside him on the battlefield. All of personal and familial success was given up to be dutiful housewife to Naruto.

 

At least with Sakura, there is still some independence and agency in being a single mom of a neglectful partner/spouse/whatever, even if she gave up her goals to be a top medic and top kunoichi.

 

But Hinata would have been the highest clan head in Konoha. Instead she just imploded. I haven't read Boruto, but as far as the end of the manga goes, her whole character is defined now only by Naruto and how she cares for him. No mention of her life or responsibilities before him.

[DrK]

The thing that sucks for Hinata fans as well as Sakura fans is that both characters got their story development ripped away from them in the end. For both characters, their challenges, successes and development were, in the end, meaningless. Both Hinata and Sakura got nothing from them. They just ended up as token arm candy. And actually, in some ways, I think hinata lost even more than Sakura — Hinata gave up her clan position, her respect, her standing up to Neji early on then standing beside him on the battlefield. All of personal and familial success was given up to be dutiful housewife to Naruto.

 

I used to think this but I think it's mostly fan speculation that Hinata cared about any of this stuff. She cared about Naruto and she cared about Neji to some extent and the branch family as a result. There is no evidence for anything else, really.

 

Sakura lost more because Sakura actually had respect (for herself) and a position (Naruto's precious person) to lose. There is really no evidence that Hinata cared about the clan head position at all.

[Bail o' Lies]

I used to think this but I think it's mostly fan speculation that Hinata cared about any of this stuff. She cared about Naruto and she cared about Neji to some extent and the branch family as a result. There is no evidence for anything else, really.

 

Sakura lost more because Sakura actually had respect (for herself) and a position (Naruto's precious person) to lose. There is really no evidence that Hinata cared about the clan head position at all.

Well, look at the Last, where Naruto had to abandon every bond he ever made as they were insignificant to the love he had to bear for Hinata by the end. Of course, this must be equal for the love Hinata bore for Naruto for fifteen years. Which means she would be willing to abandon/sacrifice everyone else who loves her for Naruto. Her behavior in the last where she cared more about that scarf then her sister is why she is called a horrible sister.

 

Other then a moment of pity at Neji's situation during their fight. We never really get a sense of Hinata's stance of her clan position or if she wants to change it; that was Neji's story that likely died with him. Her story was a satellite character of Naruto, and Neji, which with Neji's dead she exist for Naruto.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 07 August 2018 - 01:37 AM.

[Shadow Wolf]

I used to think this but I think it's mostly fan speculation that Hinata cared about any of this stuff. She cared about Naruto and she cared about Neji to some extent and the branch family as a result. There is no evidence for anything else, really.
 
Sakura lost more because Sakura actually had respect (for herself) and a position (Naruto's precious person) to lose. There is really no evidence that Hinata cared about the clan head position at all.

And there lies the biggest problem of Hinata. Even though there were some side characters, some of them had some solid goals to aspire to. We have a good example of that in the Asuma arc where Shikamaru displays what a person with a goal can achieve (protect the future of Konoha and of course, Asuma's unborn child).

Although not mentioned directly by her, Sakura had the goal of surpassing Tsunade and become the best female ninja in the whole Naruto universe. She would not just be someone's wife, but she would also be a leader of her own in the medical field and I would believe that even in the unexplored genjutsu and medical fighting style field (like Kabuto) she would have excelled.

But what do we have with Hinata?

Hinata: "...Naruto-kun!"
Me: OK, what else?
Hinata: "...nindo"
Me: so... Naruto again. What about your goals?
Hinata: "...goals?"
Me: Yeah, like, do you have plans to do something about your clan's Head/Branch status? How about a supportive group for the chuunin exams and other types of exams? Maybe even assist in medical jutsu with Byakugan style surgeries or therapies? Heck, maybe even try to open a knitting school?

Hinata: "...umm... *completely clueless*"



I understand that maybe Kishi didn't handle female characters well, but if SP planned to worship Hinata, then at least give her some solid goals to aspire to. Housewife? Um, yeah, maybe some females do aspire to be amazing housewives, but even then they reach out to other dreams. Take my sister for example. She is a housewife with 3 kids and she is taking online college courses to expand her job opportunities and work on something she loves. Her live does not revolve ONLY on her husband.

Hence why we all agree on NS being the better couple. We can easily see it even back in the chunning exams where she and Kakashi were the ones who believed in him when he fought against Kiba (if memory serves). And in Shippuden we could also see it all the way in the 4th war where... who was worried about Naruto getting exhausted from overdoing it? Who, in her speech promised to work together with Naruto? Who out of pretty much every male/female combo in the Naruto universe were constantly pushing each other to do better and believing in each other? Probably Mina/Kushi were the other couple and who do they parallel? Yeah... even in the bad writing of the last arcs it was clearly seem who was the best couple anyway.

Edited by Shadow Wolf, 08 August 2018 - 06:36 PM.

[DrK]

That is another reason why it's so bad. They had to take things AWAY from Sakura. With a NS ending, you don't take anything away from Hinata. Naruto isn't someone's possession. If you don't have him end with Sakura, Sakura still doesn't necessarily have to lose anything even though everything pointed to that. But to unrealistically put him with Hinata it was necessary to have Sakura commit character suicide, because she cared about Naruto and wouldn't have wanted to abandon him. Hinata wouldn't have been abandoning him by not being with him because he wasn't close to her at all. Basically, you can't do this in a story. You aren't allowed to. It doesn't work. At all.

[Phantom_999]

Again If NaruHina was SUCH A BELIEVABLE,REALISTIC, JUSTIFIED ROMANCE, why did they need that Hinata fan-fiction movie in the first place? The movie where all characters are ooc (bar Hinata and Sasuke) to the point that you would swear on your life they are actually new characters using the names of the characters they are impersonating. Why did they need that movie If Naruto was gonna choose Hinata anyway? (in theory that is)

Edited by Phantom_999, 09 August 2018 - 12:26 AM.

[jak123]

Again If NaruHina was SUCH A BELIEVABLE,REALISTIC, JUSTIFIED ROMANCE, why did they need that Hinata fan-fiction movie in the first place? The movie where all characters are ooc (bar Hinata and Sasuke) to the point that you would swear on your life they are actually new characters using the names of the characters they are impersonating. Why did they need that movie If Naruto was gonna choose Hinata anyway? (in theory that is)

The only reason The Last exists is because they needed to shallowly hamfist all the "development" that NaruHina didn't have in the story. Even with all the filler in the anime, it's still blatantly NaruSaku until the end.

Edited by jak123, 09 August 2018 - 03:05 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Exaclty. Anyone NOT BLINDED by Hinata Hyuga- chan-ojou -megami-sama's titties can definitely see that  

[TheFirstEvil100]

I'm still getting bugged by that guest dbzfan on all my Naruto Fics he keeps going on and on about Sasuke and my hate that I have for the Uchiha. Which is now getting very old as that is all this kitten keeps on doing right now and it's stressing me out and making me angry as well.

What can I do you guys and girls he won't leave me alone and like I said he is a guest so all I can do is keep removing his reviews, but it's getting old.

[Bail o' Lies]

I'm still getting bugged by that guest dbzfan on all my Naruto Fics he keeps going on and on about Sasuke and my hate that I have for the Uchiha. Which is now getting very old as that is all this kitten keeps on doing right now and it's stressing me out and making me angry as well.

What can I do you guys and girls he won't leave me alone and like I said he is a guest so all I can do is keep removing his reviews, but it's getting old.

Ignore him. By even removing his reviews you are giving him the attention he craves. Anyways I don't really see fanfiction.net reviews that important when I was reading fanfic. Others here may have better advice.

[DrK]

I feel that having a lot of reviews can only help your story anyway. With a legitimately bad story it has few reviews that explain usually accurately why it's bad, and then no one else reviews because it's all been said well enough already. So if you have a lot of reviews you're doing well and a hater can only help you tbh. I had one very long and thoroughly negative review from a guy whose argument was basically that NaruSaku is BS because Naruto cares more about Sasuke than he does about Sakura so he would never pick Sakura over him and therefore I made the characters OOC. I would have found the situation funny if it wasn't for the fact that he was right.

[TheFirstEvil100]

I feel that having a lot of reviews can only help your story anyway. With a legitimately bad story it has few reviews that explain usually accurately why it's bad, and then no one else reviews because it's all been said well enough already. So if you have a lot of reviews you're doing well and a hater can only help you tbh. I had one very long and thoroughly negative review from a guy whose argument was basically that NaruSaku is BS because Naruto cares more about Sasuke than he does about Sakura so he would never pick Sakura over him and therefore I made the characters OOC. I would have found the situation funny if it wasn't for the fact that he was right.

Well, it's what I'm doing I just ignore them now.