154 replies to this topic

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

Character repeatedly says they love another character, character is visibly upset because the character he loves is in love with someone else. Other character keep noticing how said Character feels about the person he said he liked, That character keeps telling people, including his dad that the person he likes is his "Girl friend." but like, Clearly that person is totally not in love even though they keep SAYING and doing things that indicate they are in love. in fact they do it so well EVERYONE in the book BELIEVES they are in love.


I guess Naruto is actually a sociopath who can lie about his feelings so well that trained Ninja's mistake them for being real along with half the audience. 

This is precisely why Kishi is a bad writer. If he was a good one he wouldn't have written something that was meant as a joke seriously, but he did because...It was meant to be serious at the time. Which torpedo's your claim. Either he meant it and changed his mind at the last moment which = bad writing, or he never meant it and wrote a bad joke that no one got. 

Pick one.


Who the hell chases after someone who has 1. Tried to kill them. 2. tried to kill people that the person they tried to kill cares about 3. Never really did anything of value for them. 4. Keeps asking to be left alone, 5. Tries to kill them again. 6. Tries to kill people who keep trying to help them while insisting they don't give a kitten about them?

Normal people don't thats who. People who follow HUMAN Behavioral patterns DON'T do the things Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura do. If people DO the things they do, they get institutionalized because they aren't normal humans. "b-but they're not normal humans, they're ninja's" Ninja's who are supposed to be human's.  

Naruto doesn't function with kitten without Team 7 because SASUKE is Naruto's driving force after the "promise of a lifetime" gets retconned to not being about romance at all. 

 

To the bolded: Everyone's noticed.    
 

This is probably the one and only time I'm going to respond to you.

And what was one of the earliest lessons we learned in part one?

That shinobi are HUMANS, not TOOLS.

One of many lessons that just gets contradicted and thrown out the window.

[AHK]

Always these "One and only times". That's fine. 
 
Naruto's usage of girlfriend is clearly teasing. (Naruto saying girlfriend also only happens here, so saying it happens a lot, is misconstruing the truth). We know it is clearly teasing because Naruto later says he needs to stop teasing her, and this is the latest moment to work with. I don't know where you get that everyone believes they are in love, it kind of runs against Sakura's confession when faces are in disbelief (Or dissaproval, perhaps, given Sakura wasn't saying what she was supposed to be). 
 
Naruto's not lying, he's teasing. He has/had a crush on Sakura, and overtime it fades. See, Kishimoto didn't write something as a joke seriously. There were points it WAS taken seriously and then sunk, as we have in the Land of Iron Arc, but post that, there is friendship and teasing, like it usually is? Thus, while there is groundwork there isn't any development, either it ends up as a joke or its regressed as soon as it could possibly be developed. 
 
He never meant it, and it was used in this messy love triangle for the readers entertainment. It's not that no one got it, it's that not everyone likes the outcome, which is the risk of the triangle when you have hardcore fans of one side and the other.
 
Sasuke tried to kill Sakura once,  when she also intended to kill him. You could nearly practically argue self-defense, if we're talking about Sakura. Now, Naruto? This applies to him. We KNOW why Naruto does it, though, and we also know why Sakura does it. And you're right, normal people don't do that. Only people who have the love, potential, and patience do that. Naruto is NOT a normal person, nor are most of the characters in the story. Naruto is socially stunted. Considering the dramatic trope at play, if this was reduced to someone doing drugs, perhaps it would make since, given people DO try to save these people, despite the cost and self-risk. 
 
The promise of a lifetime was never about romance. Honestly, it was always about SS. The only thing that is wrong was the original interpretation that romanticized it.

There is so much garbage in here it’s hard to sift through. How is it that you consistently tell eveyone that they have misunderstood things when you go around spouting nonsense like “Naruto never meant it” in regards to the girlfriend comments, as if they didn’t allude to what he really wanted, as well as “the promise of a lifetime was never about romance” (completely bs), and even “Sasuke tried to kill Sakura only once.”

You do everything you can to tell whoever is listening what they don’t understand, yet you can’t even get your own facts correct.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Why is this person even here? They can't seem to accept anything even when it's canonically evident.

Again, if Kishi meant something as a joke but was so inept at writing it, that makes him bad writer. If he meant it seriously and then changed his mind but did next to 0 work to SHOW the narrative had changed, that makes him a bad writer.

Fyi Analyzer, this is how you describe a character: what they say, what they do, what others say about them, do towards them.

NARUTO said he loved Sakura, he ACTED like he loved her. Others said he liked her, others ACTED like he liked her, ergo we can tell he was in love with her.

Stop contradicting canon.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

 

The inept part is subjective, but it's not that NS is a joke, it's that specifically the girlfriend comment is, it's an employ of humor. 

 

Where in the 700 chapters does Naruto say he loves Sakura (It doesn't). 

 

To contradict canon in this case, would be to say that Naruto fell in love with -anyone- bar his spouse, given canon states that is who is first love is. 

 

If you're saying he acted like he loved her, it's a great thought and all, but the truth is he didn't. He certainly DID like her, and acted as such, but there's no validity to leap into love, as that part is specifically debunked as false.

 

 

So someone has to SAY they love someone now? 

I guess Sasuke doesn't love Sakura since he literally never said it, in fact he said the opposite.

You forgot the part where you listen to what other people say about the character+what the character does and says:



Omg gaiz, its such a joke even an emotional retard could see

Its not even srs bruh, even Sakura realizes it without hearing it from NARUTO'S ACTUAL MOUTH. 




LYKE OMG, he never told her, not because he DIDN'T love/like ( Stop trying to play semantics btw,) her but because he didn't FEEL worthy. 

Either; Its a serious thing or its a joke. PICK ONE. 

Only someone who is intellectually dishonest is going to sit here and make the claim "naruto's feelings weren't ever really genuine, it wasn't love, Just crush." Despite the evidence contrariwise unless of course they have no idea what they are talking about and needs to go on a nice long re-read of the series. Pick one. 
 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 20 November 2017 - 04:48 PM.

[DrK]

 

What would be a bigger mistake from the perspective of Sakura? To tell Naruto about the status of Sasuke and make him feel bad by being the messenger of bad news that he would inevitably receive? Or to lie to Naruto about having feelings for him ultimately making him feel kittening devastated when he learns the truth?

 

Fun bonus question: Imagine the Sakura from this panel doing the things she did from chapter 693 on. "I'm the one who's caused him the most pain... Well, I'm going to keep that status by throwing myself at Sasuke right in Naruto's face at every opportunity!"

[Tsuki Hoshino]

 

The Sasuke one is slightly silly, but yes, for 699 chapters there is no proof of love, because he never said it.

 

The point about Sai is that he... sucks with emotions? So it's either "Even he can tell!", or...he's wrong. Given what happens later in this arch, we know it's the second one. Sakura turns out to be wrong, too. People constantly misunderstand Naruto, something often shown within the manga. 

 

And that's the entire issue when I See that panel, because it pretty much ignores the set up of a situation where the very obstacle Naruto bemoans about is taken away, and he reveals it's not about the promise during the Fake Confession. 

 

The error in the panel you provided is -assuming- Naruto means he wouldn't confess feelings of love because he can't keep his promises, and not assuming he means to confess something akin to a crush. 

 

It's not intellectually dishonesty. It's actually the truth: Naruto's feelings were not full blown love. They were a genuine crush, that faded. We have all of the manga now, all 700 chapters, and two films. In all of that, there is no validity to the claim Naruto loves Sakura. 

Tl;Dr: but its the same spiel you always give everyone "I Ignore what characters actually say, whats actually going on all while pretending I'm not being obtuse. Lalalalala Hurr hurr hurr." 

No sweetie, its not an assumption, its LITERALLY what it says. 

[Qia]

Even if it's meant as a crush, which I don't believe it is but it's not my point so whatever, the fact that Naruto never once confesses to Sakura honestly seems like bad writing on Kishi's part =/. He emphasizes such a huge moment but doesn't really give it much of a conclusion from Naruto's side. And before anyone argues anything along the lines of "oh well Naruto probably saw no point in confessing because, as it turns out, Sakura still has feelings for Sasuke" it's important to remember that 1: 

 

1. Naruto already held the belief that Sakura still loved Sasuke, considering that's one of the reasons he didn't believe the confession in the first place.  

2. Even when Naruto, at 12 years of age, knew Sakura loved Sasuke, he still pursued her and still had the desire to tell Sakura how he felt (he just had to keep his promise to her first or else he would not be worthy of her either way). 

[T XD]

Tl;Dr: but its the same spiel you always give everyone "I Ignore what characters actually say, whats actually going on all while pretending I'm not being obtuse. Lalalalala Hurr hurr hurr." 

No sweetie, its not an assumption, its LITERALLY what it says.

Don't you know ? Every moment post-698 is canon between characters cause it's 699-700 where SS and NH happened.

 

Everything pre-699 is misunderstood, misinterpreted and all the lexicon field of misunderstanding and misinterpreted you can think about.

Edited by T XD, 20 November 2017 - 06:10 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Don't you know ? Every moment post-698 is canon between characters cause it's 699-700 where SS and NH happened.

 

Everything pre-699 is misunderstood, misinterpreted and all the lexicon field of misunderstanding and misinterpreted you can think about.

Its because Narusaku shippers are stooopid and can't read.  

[Qia]

Eh, with 699 as it is, which is the only chapter post promise fulfilled, and fading crush and the like, I just don't see the need for the panels for it. Right after Sasuke's forehead poke we can already predict how it would go.

 

I get the need for satisfaction, I suppose, if that's the argument. 

Except it's not about satisfaction...the moment was given emphasis. Therefore, I expect a resolution, or else it just seems like poor writing on Kishi's part especially since the reasoning for that resolution not happening is not good enough. You not seeing a need is a very subjective view, not objective. Objectively, you don't leave holes like that in the story (and this isn't the only one....). 

[T XD]

Its because Narusaku shippers are stooopid and can't read.

Many people need to go to an optician and re-register in grades 3, 4 and 5. I wonder how we passed our exams when I was a student in these grades during the time.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I was in high school and college at that period  my GPA was pretty high, but somehow when people pick up Naruto they're reduced to dunces. 

Frightening. 

[AHK]

He didn't, given we have a scene that specifically states not long after "I need to stop teasing Sakura". They didn't allude to what he really wanted, given he says he needs to stop teasing like this. The promise of a lifetime not being about romance is what is addressed in the Fake Confession. 

 

The Sasuke trying to kill Sakura only once is also actually true, even! Ironic fact, right?

 

Feel free to use evidence to prove me wrong and i'll retract my statements, but I'm not seeing any arguments beyond a declarative that I'm wrong without elaboration. 

Except that he did. He meant it, and wanted it to happen. He confirmed to Sai that he had feelings for Sakura, and the promise of a lifetime was just one example of that. Also, no, the bold is false. The only thing that the fake confession confirmed in regards to Naruto's reasoning was that his love for Sakura wasn't the only reason that he was going after Sasuke. The POAL was made because Naruto was in love with Sakura to the point that he would sacrifice his own happiness for Sakura to be happy. These aren't difficult intellectual leaps to make, I don't see why there's such a struggle on your behalf to misconstrue it.

 

Actually, no, it isn't true. Sasuke tried to kill her multiple times. When they first found him at Orochimaru's lair, Sasuke tried to kill her and Yamato had to step in. Not 5 minutes later, Orochimaru had to stop Sasuke from using another jutsu, probably Kirin to kill them. He tried to murder her in LOI, was ok with letting her get trapped in IT, was content to let her fall in lava, showed himself killing her in a genjutsu, and was going to kill anyone in his way (obviously including her) had Naruto not stopped him.

 

It isn't that you're not seeing arguments otherwise, it's that you're ignoring them because you don't like them. 

[T XD]

I was in high school and college at that period  my GPA was pretty high, but somehow when people pick up Naruto they're reduced to dunces. 

Frightening. 

Apparently, an opinion is a fact for others.

Edited by T XD, 20 November 2017 - 07:45 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

 

Eh, NS shippers or no shipper really is stupid and can't read. No one is saying that. I do think though (Partially blame the Anime, and partially just blame the fervor of being a fan and shipper) that people exaggerate, place great emphasis on non-important things, or misinterpret characters due to shipping or poor anime portrayal. It happens. 

In other words no one but you can read Naruto accurately. 

On a side note: Hinata is an unimportant thing for 99% of the manga. 

[T XD]

In other words no one but you can read Naruto accurately. 

On a side note: Hinata is an unimportant thing for 99% of the manga. 

False. Hinata had a considerable role in the manga. Why ? Cause she said this and that, shown here and there, and Naruto.

Edited by T XD, 20 November 2017 - 07:51 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Which is why Hinata is missing for over half the manga, Which is why if you compile ever page with Hinata on it Sakura's would outnumber her by about 200x

Yea ok we're all just blind and you're the only one with eyes. 
 

False. Hinata had a considerable role in the manga.

Behind a tree, behind Naruto, in a dark alley ofc 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 20 November 2017 - 07:54 PM.

[T XD]

Which is why Hinata is missing for over half the manga, Which is why if you compile ever page with Hinata on it Sakura's would outnumber her by about 200x

Yea ok we're all just blind and you're the only one with eyes. 
 

Behind a tree, behind Naruto, in a dark alley ofc 

She was more than that. She was a character that Naruto didn't know that he loves until a scarf, a Genjutsu came into play, a retcon movie, and the ending of the manga holding the assassination of the main characters development. What a nice love story.

 

What makes it more special is its' the first manga to ever have such a feat for a side character and a main character in the history of manga and anime. Tadaaa.

Edited by T XD, 20 November 2017 - 08:14 PM.

[DrK]

Actually, no, it isn't true. Sasuke tried to kill her multiple times. When they first found him at Orochimaru's lair, Sasuke tried to kill her and Yamato had to step in. Not 5 minutes later, Orochimaru had to stop Sasuke from using another jutsu, probably Kirin to kill them. He tried to murder her in LOI, was ok with letting her get trapped in IT, was content to let her fall in lava, showed himself killing her in a genjutsu, and was going to kill anyone in his way (obviously including her) had Naruto not stopped him.

Honestly, this description is a generous one regarding the cruelty of Sasuke. Sakura would have believed she was going to die in most of these circumstances.

 

It wasn't like she'd just feel threatened. It wasn't just a fight situation. She was usually helpless and feeling that her death was imminent. This isn't something you can easily get over. I know this from personal experience. And I wasn't a young girl at the time.

Edited by DrK, 20 November 2017 - 08:11 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

She was more than that. She was a character that Naruto didn't know that he loves until a scarf, a Genjutsu came into play, a retcon movie, and the ending of the manga holding the assassination of the main characters development. What a nice love story.

 

What makes it more special is first manga to ever such feat for a side character and a main character in the history of manga and anime. Tadaaa.

The other stuff is true, except that last bit. Keiko Yukimura was a side char and she ended with the main character...but she also had more panel time then Hinata  :lmao:and more development and Toshiro didn't even particularly LIKE her. He thought she was boring.