161 replies to this topic

[Nar123]

 
To read this now and think back on everything that Sakura was becoming, what she could have been... The happiness and naturality of her relationship with Naruto was the best dynamic of the series, in my opinion. 
 
 

 
(source: http://yuzu-x.tumblr...databook-saying)
 
Three weeks after the devastation you would think that the emotional pain would have subsided at least somewhat. But the grief... It's still there and it hurts very much. 

This is why i don't buy that kitten
" The ending was planned 8 years ago!"

Yeah right

[Atheck]

This is why i don't buy that kitten
" The ending was planned 8 years ago!"

Yeah right

 

The 3rd Databook wasn't even released until late 2008 after the battle with Itachi. So the notion that these pairings and the setting in the epilogue were intended 8 years ago is a patent contradiction of factual guidebook information released after the supposed date of planning. 

[Iwantbuns]

"A powerful and highly skilled ninja who possesses healing jutsu"

 

Yeah not seeing a lot of that. More like a housekeeper.

 

And Kishi saying that one pairing would be canon. That went pretty well too, didn't it

[tricksie]

 

The 3rd Databook wasn't even released until late 2008 after the battle with Itachi. So the notion that these pairings and the setting in the epilogue were intended 8 years ago is a patent contradiction of factual guidebook information released after the supposed date of planning. 

 

Yes, it's a poorly worded statement from an unconfirmed twitter source. I would put any stock in the 8-year thing at all. And the Databooks just back it up that NH couldn't have been planned then.

[MangaReader]

Naruto loved Sakura only because of his rivalry with Sasuke... goodbye Chapter 3/Story of Team 7 beginning/Naruto's character, your 15 years were in vein because of one man's misuse of his power as a storyteller because of a sellout movie of utter sh*ttiness.

That not only makes Naruto sounds shallow, but it means Naruto could never beat Sasuke at anything in the end either. What a great hero and powerful message Kishimoto, clearly is a story for generations to come.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yes, it's a poorly worded statement from an unconfirmed twitter source. I would put any stock in the 8-year thing at all. And the Databooks just back it up that NH couldn't have been planned then.

 

Exactly!

[Princess Iris]

Naruto loved Sakura only because of his rivalry with Sasuke... goodbye Chapter 3/Story of Team 7 beginning/Naruto's character, your 15 years were in vein because of one man's misuse of his power as a storyteller because of a sellout movie of utter sh*ttiness.
That not only makes Naruto sounds shallow, but it means Naruto could never beat Sasuke at anything in the end either. What a great hero and powerful message Kishimoto, clearly is a story for generations to come.

Naruto loved Sakura Cuz of rivalry
Hinata loved Naruto cuz he was loser like her
Sakura loved Sasuke cuz he was cool

umm...Sasuke loved Sasuke (why??)

I guess this was only true love in the series

[Dario]

Naruto loved Sakura only because of his rivalry with Sasuke... goodbye Chapter 3/Story of Team 7 beginning/Naruto's character, your 15 years were in vein because of one man's misuse of his power as a storyteller because of a sellout movie of utter sh*ttiness.

That not only makes Naruto sounds shallow, but it means Naruto could never beat Sasuke at anything in the end either. What a great hero and powerful message Kishimoto, clearly is a story for generations to come.

ROFL

 

It's actually consistent with Kishimotos other messages: just like Neji died as his destiny told him to and Naruto becoming hokage was decided at his birth because he was the son of the 4th and of the previous kyuubi jinchuuriki, Naruto should have just been born less stupid, cooler and better looking, that way Sakura would have loved him.

 

What a heartwarming life lesson!

[RedFaction]

ROFL

 

It's actually consistent with Kishimotos other messages: just like Neji died as his destiny told him to and Naruto becoming hokage was decided at his birth because he was the son of the 4th and of the previous kyuubi jinchuuriki, Naruto should have just been born less stupid, cooler and better looking, that way Sakura would have loved him.

 

What a heartwarming life lesson!

Just like Obito, the coolest guy!

Edited by RedFaction, 29 November 2014 - 06:25 AM.

[MangaReader]

Ahh the power of retcons, pissing people off since they were first invented

[Nar123]

Just like Obito, the coolest guy!

You said it!

[tricksie]

Abandoned:

 

After Naruto saved Sakura and he and Sasuke fought, Naruto told Sasuke that he knew what was going to happen to them. That if they fought, then they'd both die. Sakura was stunned. And later, when they were with the group, Sakura knew there was something Naruto was holding back.

 

Where did that go? There was no foreshadowing or suspense at the end that either might die. There was no concern on Sakura's part that this was the final battle that Nartuto had hinted about, where one or both of them might be killed.

 

She might have intervened, and that would have been a reference to their hospital roof-top fight where Naruto told her to never come between he and Sasuke in battle again. This could have been that moment.... But no. 

 

Sakura was knocked out, and Naruto and Sasuke had the least suspenseful fight ever. *sigh*

[TouKen4Life3g]

Abandoned:
 
After Naruto saved Sakura and he and Sasuke fought, Naruto told Sasuke that he knew what was going to happen to them. That if they fought, then they'd both die. Sakura was stunned. And later, when they were with the group, Sakura knew there was something Naruto was holding back.
 
Where did that go? There was no foreshadowing or suspense at the end that either might die. There was no concern on Sakura's part that this was the final battle that Nartuto had hinted about, where one or both of them might be killed.
 
She might have intervened, and that would have been a reference to their hospital roof-top fight where Naruto told her to never come between he and Sasuke in battle again. This could have been that moment.... But no. 
 
Sakura was knocked out, and Naruto and Sasuke had the least suspenseful fight ever. *sigh*

This is true.

You can tell that Kishi was just rushing things out and try the best to dodge all the hype and foreshadows to not have to explain it. Even in the video game, they acknowledge as something that will be covered in the future. That didn't happen. So pretty much, they have to butchered as much as he can to ignore on what happened before.

[AzureKnight]

Retcon: EVERYTHING AFTER CHAPTER 448!

 

Abadoned sub-plots: EVERYTHING BEFORE CHAPTER 448 (after that nothing makes simply sense).

[TouKen4Life3g]

Retcon: EVERYTHING AFTER CHAPTER 448!
 
Abadoned sub-plots: EVERYTHING BEFORE CHAPTER 448 (after that nothing makes simply sense).

This, I have to agree on. I think. More or less. Seriously, Kage Summit Arc was a start of a "Things gone differently for the worst." I mean you can save it if you follow it, but that's the problem. He didn't, so everything became a huge mess.

[AzureKnight]

This, I have to agree on. I think. More or less. Seriously, Kage Summit Arc was a start of a "Things gone differently for the worst." I mean you can save it if you follow it, but that's the problem. He didn't, so everything became a huge mess.

 

Thanks! ;P

 

Be honest, ever since chapter 448 everything has been retconed, the ENTIRE story!

 

1.Akatsuki's founder = first, it was Pain, then Yahiko, then Obito, then Madara and finally Black Zetsu.

2.Black Zetsu = he never did anything important, infact, he was beaten many times like a bull crap, yet in the final 20-25 chapter Kishimoto decide to make him the true-true main antagonist, overwritte the entire story like he was behind everything and on. So, if people call Aizen from Bleach as a troll, then what Black Zetsu is then?

3.The Tailed Beasts are actually one being = So bad that neither Kyuubi and Shukaku confirmed it in Part I nor Chiyo in the Rescue Gaara arc.

4,Holy Tree and Kaguya = There were no hints nor foreshadowing about neither a "Holy Tree" nor "Chakra Mother Kaguya" in the FIRST 640 chapters, but Kishimoto decided to retcon everything again just to put 2 stupid idead into the manga.

5.4th Ninja War = Aka a baby war where alwaya the good guys wins and nobody dies until the last boss battle (which is cannot be called a war anymore, seriously, what kind a war is 4000000 vs 1-2?). Why people scolded and loathed Bleach back then? Have I mentioned that while in the past 100 chapters of Bleach 4-5 major characters from the good guys died (Yamamoto, Kira, Sasakibe, Unohana, Kensei, Rojuro ect) until in the so called "war" in Naruto only a fodderised Neji died who became far weaker than Hinata (see chapter 525-526)?

6.Power ups from nowhere without any training or foreshadowing nor hinting (Izanami, Rikudo-sennin's help, Sakura's Byakugo, Kakashi's Susanoo ect).

 

And so on. Also, the story became weaker than bleach since chapter 448, masive resurrections via Edo Tensei and Rinne Tensei, where Edo Tensei was only good to make the killed/dead characters patheticly weak despite being "legendaries".

 

So I still don't understand how could people saying that Naruto is better than Bleach where Kubo could make kittening awasome plot twists without retcon-ing his story (there were hints that the Hollow Ichigo was actually the real Zangetsu, there were hints that Ichigo's mother was special, there were mentions about the Zero Division, there were hints about Ginjo's existence ect). Oh, yeah, because Kubo is not using shipping as bait.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Thanks! ;P
 
Be honest, ever since chapter 448 everything has been retconed, the ENTIRE story!
 
1.Akatsuki's founder = first, it was Pain, then Yahiko, then Obito, then Madara and finally Black Zetsu.
2.Black Zetsu = he never did anything important, infact, he was beaten many times like a bull crap, yet in the final 20-25 chapter Kishimoto decide to make him the true-true main antagonist, overwritte the entire story like he was behind everything and on. So, if people call Aizen from Bleach as a troll, then what Black Zetsu is then?
3.The Tailed Beasts are actually one being = So bad that neither Kyuubi and Shukaku confirmed it in Part I nor Chiyo in the Rescue Gaara arc.
4,Holy Tree and Kaguya = There were no hints nor foreshadowing about neither a "Holy Tree" nor "Chakra Mother Kaguya" in the FIRST 640 chapters, but Kishimoto decided to retcon everything again just to put 2 stupid idead into the manga.
5.4th Ninja War = Aka a baby war where alwaya the good guys wins and nobody dies until the last boss battle (which is cannot be called a war anymore, seriously, what kind a war is 4000000 vs 1-2?). Why people scolded and loathed Bleach back then? Have I mentioned that while in the past 100 chapters of Bleach 4-5 major characters from the good guys died (Yamamoto, Kira, Sasakibe, Unohana, Kensei, Rojuro ect) until in the so called "war" in Naruto only a fodderised Neji died who became far weaker than Hinata (see chapter 525-526)?
6.Power ups from nowhere without any training or foreshadowing nor hinting (Izanami, Rikudo-sennin's help, Sakura's Byakugo, Kakashi's Susanoo ect).
 
And so on. Also, the story became weaker than bleach since chapter 448, masive resurrections via Edo Tensei and Rinne Tensei, where Edo Tensei was only good to make the killed/dead characters patheticly weak despite being "legendaries".
 
So I still don't understand how could people saying that Naruto is better than Bleach where Kubo could make kittening awasome plot twists without retcon-ing his story (there were hints that the Hollow Ichigo was actually the real Zangetsu, there were hints that Ichigo's mother was special, there were mentions about the Zero Division, there were hints about Ginjo's existence ect). Oh, yeah, because Kubo is not using shipping as bait.

Well, Bleach problems are slow pace and some other stuff, but what you said about Naruto is true, especially after the course of the event. It was normal with Pain and all that until we hit Kage Summit Arc, which by the way, was during the reign of the new editor. It's funny because in Pain Arc, everyone was cool with NS and such, but then later on, everyone changed. You can say the fact Hinata still remain that is from the new direction. Pain Arc felt like everyone was cool with Naruto and besides the main characters, they feel compete. Then we go to war and everyone is back to part 1, as to say, "Remember those days?" While it's nice to remember, but there are reasons why we see them grow up, and clearly part 1 has a lot of faults but that's how it was written.

So they turned the negative into "positive" and pretty much ruin the purpose of progression and evolution. So yes, it's a terrible shame that the story is written by demands.

[ThroughWithLove]

I agree with everything except Bleach plot twist not being retcons. Trust me. They are BIG RETCONS. The origin of Chad's powers went from him having natural abilities, to it being a result of Ichigo's reitsu to it being from the Hogyuko to it being because he had a fullbring. Same goes for Orihime. One minute, she's a healer with offensive abilities, next minute she's just a healer, next minute she's a goddess incarnate who has control over reality, next minute she's just a healer again and Aizen's entire reason for capturing her in the first place becomes idiotic. Kubo makes it up as he goes.

 

Thing is, there was a time when Naruto wasn't that bad; where it seemed like the author had a vision. However, that time quickly vanished post-Pein arc.

[Jenskott]

 

 

Maybe that's why he spends all of his day eat ramen noodles and searching ebay. :lmao

 

Instead of raising his own son.

 

Naruto's birth is a headache-inducing chapter. When you read it you realize that nobody in Konoha knew what had happened to the Fox. so that...

 

- Why did Sarutobi make it public or allowed that it became public? Nobody knew what Naruto was a Jinchuuriki.

 

- Since we are on it, nobody connected the dots and wondered why Naruto's surname was Uzumaki?

 

- Kakashi knew what his master's wife got pregnant? He knew what their son was alive? Why did he not raise him?

 

- I can see it: Sarutobi delivers a speech to the Konoha citizens stating that the Fourth Hokage and Kushina Uzumaki had died as repelling the Bijuu attack, but Kushina's son (or Minato and Kushina's son in case that their marriage and her pregnancy was public) had survived. He was an Uzumaki and was to be treated like such. In other words, he makes known Naruto's lineage, omitting the bit about him being a Jinchuuriki, and then he ensures that Naruto has a good surrogate father/mentor, maybe taking him in or ordering to Kakashi taking care of his master's son.

 

I have forgotten something?

 

Oh, yes. What were the Uchiha doing that night? It was stressed several times that they were missing, and we saw Kushina talking to Mikoto earlier and telling her something that she was supposed to keep secret. Hence, I thought that it was an important plot point and it would be brought up later. But nooooooo.

 

Pals... God knows that I can forgive or overlook A LOT if I am entertained enough. But there are limits to my tolerance and willingness to disregard grave plot incoherences even if I am entertained enough. And I was not.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Instead of raising his own son.
 
Naruto's birth is a headache-inducing chapter. When you read it you realize that nobody in Konoha knew what had happened to the Fox. so that...
 
- Why did Sarutobi make it public or allowed that it became public? Nobody knew what Naruto was a Jinchuuriki.
 
- Since we are on it, nobody connected the dots and wondered why Naruto's surname was Uzumaki?
 
- Kakashi knew what his master's wife got pregnant? He knew what their son was alive? Why did he not raise him?
 
- I can see it: Sarutobi delivers a speech to the Konoha citizens stating that the Fourth Hokage and Kushina Uzumaki had died as repelling the Bijuu attack, but Kushina's son (or Minato and Kushina's son in case that their marriage and her pregnancy was public) had survived. He was an Uzumaki and was to be treated like such. In other words, he makes known Naruto's lineage, omitting the bit about him being a Jinchuuriki, and then he ensures that Naruto has a good surrogate father/mentor, maybe taking him in or ordering to Kakashi taking care of his master's son.
 
I have forgotten something?
 
Oh, yes. What were the Uchiha doing that night? It was stressed several times that they were missing, and we saw Kushina talking to Mikoto earlier and telling her something that she was supposed to keep secret. Hence, I thought that it was an important plot point and it would be brought up later. But nooooooo.
 
Pals... God knows that I can forgive or overlook A LOT if I am entertained enough. But there are limits to my tolerance and willingness to disregard grave plot incoherences even if I am entertained enough. And I was not.

Funny when it all ends, you look back at see so many plot holes. For that matter, it could have avoided if you later let it build up to that resolution. Nope.