286 replies to this topic

[Shadow1275]

he didnt said "i dont deserve you", what he did was a wake up call he said

 

kakashi : "obito loved you"

Rin : But Kakashi my feelings...

Kakashi : "i was going to abandon you."

 

He simply rejected Rin not the other way around, he didnt felt that he deserved her but more likely the fact that how could he return her feelings when he was going to abandon her.

All the flashbacks of Rin/kakashi were of her admiring him because she thinks he's a greath shinobi and a great guy he did a wake up call on her by telling her that he's not a great shinobi and the great guy she thought he was.

 

Kakashi didnt loved Rin it was kind obvious when he was going to abandon her without hesitation, just like when Sasuke tried to kill Sakura without hesitation.

Dont even try to compare Kakashi abandoning Rin with Naruto's POAL, they give different resolutions.

"unwilling to confess doesnt mean that he believes that Sakura should not be with him".

Did you read the chapter? look it over again. It wasn't an obvious decision for him at all. He clearly was conflicted over his decision to leave her.

 

http://www.mangapand...hapter-241.html

 

Different sites have different translations, But if you want to go by "I was once the kind of scum that would abandon you." Fine.

 

The above quote does not mean, wake up I don't care about you. It means, You shouldn't be with me because I abandoned you. In other words, had I not abandoned you we might have had a chance. Note that this is the first time Kakashi has known of Rin's feelings for him.

 

Compare that to Sasuke's complete rejection when Sakura confessed to him and you see the difference between "My path is different from yours, I am an avenger." And "I used to be the scum who would have abandoned you."

 

Now as for Naruto not feeling he deserves Sakura. Why do you think he hasn't told her how he feels to her face yet? She confessed right to his face, and instead of telling her his feelings, He throws it right back at her.

 

Here's Why:http://www.mangapand...hapter-457.html

 

He clearly says "How can I, I can't even keep my promises."

 

It's clear as day that he doesn't feel like he deserves her. Part of why Sakura leaves for the Land of Iron is because of the pain he feels for that POAL.

 

But let's take this a step further. Kakashi and Naruto are even further paralleled by the fact that one of the biggest reasons they both refuse to make a move is that their respective girl team members love other guys then the one's they think they should. For example, while Sakura's feelings can be debated, Naruto clearly still thinks that she loves Sasuke. When she confessed to him it was the chief reason why he rejected her.

 

Right before Rin confesses to Kakashi, He tells her that Obito loved her. Kakashi isn't going to make a move on the girl Obito loved, regardless of his own feelings or hers, especially since he just saw Obito cut down. These are just other things showing that they don't feel that they deserve Rin or Sakura's feelings.

 

Naruto specifically made the POAL bc he wanted to see Sakura happy. He thinks that getting Sasuke back will make her happy, he hasn't been able to do this therefore he feels that he failed her.

 

Kakashi abandoned Rin, he admits to failing her and bc he was addressing her feelings for him. That is the only excuse he gives for not being with her.

Edited by Shadow1275, 13 November 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Did you read the chapter? look it over again. It wasn't an obvious decision for him at all. He clearly was conflicted over his decision to leave her.

 

http://www.mangapand...hapter-241.html

 

Different sites have different translations, But if you want to go by "I was once the kind of scum that would abandon you." Fine.

 

The above quote does not mean, wake up I don't care about you. It means, You shouldn't be with me because I abandoned you. In other words, had I not abandoned you we might have had a chance. Note that this is the first time Kakashi has known of Rin's feelings for him.

 

Compare that to Sasuke's complete rejection when Sakura confessed to him and you see the difference between "My path is different from yours, I am an avenger." And "I used to be the scum who would have abandoned you."

 

Now as for Naruto not feeling he deserves Sakura. Why do you think he hasn't told her how he feels to her face yet? She confessed right to his face, and instead of telling her his feelings, He throws it right back at her.

 

Here's Why:http://www.mangapand...hapter-457.html

 

He clearly says "How can I, I can't even keep my promises."

 

It's clear as day that he doesn't feel like he deserves her. Part of why Sakura leaves for the Land of Iron is because of the pain he feels for that POAL.

 

But let's take this a step further. Kakashi and Naruto are even further paralleled by the fact that one of the biggest reasons they both refuse to make a move is that their respective girl team members love other guys. For example, while Sakura's feelings can be debated, Naruto clearly still thinks that she loves Sasuke. When she confessed to him it was the chief reason why he rejected her.

 

Right before Rin confesses to Kakashi, He tells her that Obito loved her. Kakashi isn't going to make a move on the girl Obito loved, regardless of his own feelings or hers, especially since he just saw Obito cut down. These are just other things showing that they don't feel that they deserve Rin or Sakura's feelings.

 

Naruto specifically made the POAL bc he wanted to see Sakura happy. He thinks that getting Sasuke back will make her happy, he hasn't been able to do this therefore he feels that he failed her.

 

Kakashi abandoned Rin, he admits to failing her and bc he was addressing her feelings for him. That is the only excuse he gives for not being with her.

After he was punched by Obito and being TnJ by him.

 

It was what i said and even then does imply that he wanted to return Rin's feelings or loved her, in fact he did a wake up call on her, yes, telling her the truth and what he was going to do if Obito didnt stopped him.

 

Naruto only stated the reason why he doesnt confess but at the same time he doesnt point out that he doesnt deserve her, he just doesnt want to confess his feelings for her because he hasnt fullfilled his promise, Sakura's confession and even 631 clearly states that he doesnt feel that he doesnt deserve her, he just think that it's not right for him to confess his feelings for her when he had not fullfilled his promise.

It only prevents him from making a move on her but he doesnt believe he doesnt deserve her.

It's the same with Sakura, she feels that she doesnt deserve Naruto but yet she doesnt love him, and that is proved on the summit and when she's about to kill Sasuke that she still has feelings for him.

 

Agree partially on the POAL, because there's more here, it still doesnt justify her desire to make a confession to Naruto, the point is that on the POAL alongisde with the pain she caused to Naruto, she also broke his heart and realize the extent of his feelings for her, anyway i dont think my explanation has to do with this part of the post.

 

Kakashi is totally not interested on Rin and never have showed any form of emotions beyond friendship, Kakashi is not a carbon copy of Naruto, they are not paralleled either, Kakashi was only paralleled to Sasuke.

Kakashi is ready to kill, he's in fact more similar to the second hokage than Naruto, kakashi is capable off doing the dirty job for Naruto, it was like this all the time, he killed off even Kakuzu to prevent Naruto to land the finishing blow.

Kakashi cant refuse to make a move on someome he doesnt love, and he expressed that on the Rin's part, about Naruto it already shows off that it contradicts with your post, you said that Naruto feels that he doesnt deserve Sakura but yet he rejected Sakura because he believed she loved sasuke and not because he feel "unworthy of her".

 

You know that this is purely especulation right?It goes back to your part of the post ""My path is different from yours, I am an avenger." And "I used to be the scum who would have abandoned you."

They both have the same meaning, Kakashi rejected him because he was going to abandon her right after telling her about Obito's feelings, and Sasuke because he's an avenger and he has another plans to his own life.

There's no difference here,following your logic it implies that what prevents Sasuke from being with Sakura is because of his revenge otherwise he would accept her feelings without loving her srsly? is that you're implying?

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 13 November 2013 - 09:20 PM.

[Shadow1275]

After he was punched by Obito and being TnJ by him.

 

It was what i said and even then does imply that he wanted to return Rin's feelings or loved her, in fact he did a wake up call on her, yes, telling her the truth and what he was going to do if Obito didnt stopped him.

 

Naruto only stated the reason why he doesnt confess but at the same time he doesnt point out that he doesnt deserve her, he just doesnt want to confess his feelings for her because he hasnt fullfilled his promise, Sakura's confession and even 631 clearly states that he doesnt feel that he doesnt deserve her, he just think that it's not right for him to confess his feelings for her when he had not fullfilled his promise.

 

Agree partially on the POAL, because there's more here, it still doesnt justify her desire to make a confession to Naruto, the point is that on the POAL alongisde with the pain she caused to Naruto, she also broke his heart and realize the extent of his feelings for her, anyway i dont think my explanation has to do with this part of the post.

 

Kakashi is totally not interested on Rin and never have showed any form of emotions beyond friendship, Kakashi is not a carbon copy of Naruto, they are not paralleled either, Kakashi was only paralleled to Sasuke.

Kakashi is ready to kill, he's in fact more similar to the second hokage than Naruto, kakashi is capable off doing the dirty job for Naruto, it was like this all the time, he killed off even Kakuzu to prevent Naruto to land the finishing blow.

Kakashi cant refuse to make a move on someome he doesnt love, and he expressed that on the Rin's part, about Naruto it already shows off that it contradicts with your post, you said that Naruto feels that he doesnt deserve Sakura but yet he rejected Sakura because he believed she loved sasuke and not because he feel "unworthy of her".

 

You know that this is purely especulation right?It goes back to your part of the post ""My path is different from yours, I am an avenger." And "I used to be the scum who would have abandoned you."

They both have the same meaning, Kakashi rejected him because he was going to abandon her right after telling her about Obito's feelings, and Sasuke because he's an avenger and he has another plans to his own life.

There's no difference here, it implies that what prevents Sasuke from being with Sakura is because of his revenge otherwise he would accept her feelings without loving her srsly? is that you're implying?

Well we're each entitled to our own opinions and this stuff is more reserved for the debate thread. But we've been over this already man, just go back to the debate thread if you want my opinion and reasons.

[Askia31]

From this chapter, i'd say narusaku=/=obirin anymore. I'm sorry but that parralel is dead now. Sakura is not Naruto's only light.

Edited by Askia31, 13 November 2013 - 09:59 PM.

[KnS]

Let me say up front that I have read none of the other comments on this thread, so forgive me if I repeat stuff other people have already said.

 

1. Kakashi.  He is, as I've always maintained, totally awesome.  He is a man who takes responsibility.  He is a man who understands bonds, loyalty, and the meaning of sacrifice.  Someone who has also suffered immensely and yet spent a lifetime walking the talk.  He is everything Obito is not.  

 

In a poetic way that is likely to sail unnoticed over the heads of Kishimoto's target demographic, Kakashi accepted more than Obito's eye on that fateful day.  Kakashi ended up taking on Obito's noblest qualities and improving on the rest, all while denying himself any comfort or happiness.  His humble dedication to Obito's dreams even brought him to the point of being named Hokage, an honor that made him uncomfortable and that he wished to reject.  Kakashi's reluctance to hold that office makes so much more sense now.

 

And I'm sorry but I have to say it again: I think Kishimoto missed a major opportunity to further highlight the stark difference between Obito and Kakashi by failing to reveal that Kakashi loved Rin as well.  It was a natural quality of Obito's for Kakashi to have acquired (along with everything else), and it would have made his sacrifice of Rin that much more powerful and meaningful.  

 

Minato did say that Obito and Kakashi both protected Rin with "all they had" -- which implies a lot -- but it falls short of spelling out that Kakashi might have loved her.  No matter.  It will remain my head canon.      (If I didn't already have two stories in progress I would so write this.)

 

2. Minato.  It is painful and rather disgusting to see a man who sacrificed everything stand there and grovel for forgiveness at the feet of a whiny loser like Obito.  When Obito said that Rin was the "only light" in his life, my reaction was of the "boo-effing-hoo" variety.  He had the gall to say that to two men who were there for him, who cared about his success, who helped and encouraged him, and who themselves gave up as much if not FAR MORE than what Obito lost, and who are STILL setting all that aside in order to make Obito feel better about himself.  Just... blech.

 

3. Obito.  Redemption in terms of the plot, perhaps, but as far as I'm concerned he cannot be redeemed as a human being.  What a shockingly petty motivation he ended up using to threaten, torture, and murder countless people.  I understand what Kishimoto is getting at, and why he's doing this kind of thing in the story, but that doesn't make it any more palatable.

 

4. Naruto.  I may be the only one, but comparing Obito to Naruto insults me on Naruto's behalf.  Likewise, I didn't care at all for the implication that Sasuke is the friend who understands Naruto -- the one to whom he can say anything.  Yuck.  I know I need to prepare myself for Sasuke's redemption, but it's going to be a bitter pill to swallow.

 

5. Sakura/Rin.  It seems clear that whatever similarities exist between Sakura and Rin, the purpose of their role in and influence on their teammates lives is different and won't lead to a so-called parallel.  Naruto has more people to lean on than Sakura, and she is not the "only light" in his life.

 

Nevertheless, Kakashi reaffirmed what we already know about Naruto when he said, "Because [Naruto] is not going to give up on his dream... and the real world."  That includes his feelings for Sakura, which we know he still hopes to call his girlfriend.  

[TouKen4Life3g]

From this chapter, i'd say narusaku=/=obirin anymore. I'm sorry but that parralel is dead now. Sakura is not Naruto's only light.

You do know that's not how we see parallel, right? Well, I let people here to explain. I got to get going.

[六道仙人]

You do know that's not how we see parallel, right? Well, I let people here to explain. I got to get going.

 

isn't he an NH hardcore fan? If so, better don't waste time.

[PhenixElite]

 

isn't he an NH hardcore fan? If so, better don't waste time.

Troll as far as i remember XD

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
isn't he an NH hardcore fan? If so, better don't waste time.

Oh. I actually guessed it. Hey, I'm dealing with sony fanboys as of late. I guess I know what equals to NH fan.

Last shot fired today. Anyway, I need a break.

[Nate River]

From this chapter, i'd say narusaku=/=obirin anymore. I'm sorry but that parralel is dead now. Sakura is not Naruto's only light.

It's a good thing too. As KnS points out saying so would be spitting in the face of all those who have stood by him throughout his life. It's actually rather appalling he'd say that Minato and Kakashi's faces. And it's that obsession that helped drive him to mass murder.

I tend to put more stock in the fact that it sometimes appears that in creating Kushina and her background that he took Sakura and ran her through the company copy machine. An exaggeration, but it's not even subtle.
 

isn't he an NH hardcore fan? If so, better don't waste time.

Don't even start down this road. If he wants to participate he can. If others wish to respond they can.

[六道仙人]

yeah but he's a troll. he don't debate even LOL

[Kster95]

So infinite Tsukiyomi is not going to happen, the clouds covering the moon. Also isn't Naruto not supposed to use Rasenshuriken, unless he is in sage mode. 

[sushi.]

From this chapter, i'd say narusaku=/=obirin anymore. I'm sorry but that parralel is dead now. Sakura is not Naruto's only light.

Yes, thank god. Don't be sorryif it's true you're a nh, you're not really sorry at all, that wouldn't be healthy. I know Obito was an orphan, and probably a only child as well, but I would've liked if he also considered Minato and Kakashi as his lights. :( And the rest of his class, that's how it was in his flashback.

 

"Naruto is a sun, surrounded by candles", is the vibe I get from it. Some are brighter than others, of course! :)

 

About the parallel itself, It's not dead.

I do think the recent predictions are half-dead and very unlikely, but no predictions here are based on nothing. The parallel was set a long ago. You seem to agree too, for something to be dead it has to have been alive. The connections were marked by the similar dynamics and set of situations in Kakashi gaiden.

2. Minato.  It is painful and rather disgusting to see a man who sacrificed everything stand there and grovel for forgiveness at the feet of a whiny loser like Obito.  When Obito said that Rin was the "only light" in his life, my reaction was of the "boo-effing-hoo" variety.  He had the gall to say that to two men who were there for him, who cared about his success, who helped and encouraged him, and who themselves gave up as much if not FAR MORE than what Obito lost, and who are STILL setting all that aside in order to make Obito feel better about himself.  Just... blech.

I was also disappointed with Minato this week. It's not only him. Some of the characters are becoming pieces and symbols and plot devices instead of actual characters. Maybe Kishimoto didn't include Minato's feelings because "it's not his story" or "it doesn't fit in here", either way it's absurd writing. He is representing his ideals through his characters, but in a very unrealistic way. Minato literally has one opinion about what Obito did to his family and he takes all that out on himself, and somewhat Kakashi. Then he goes on about what they could've done better regarding Obito. Gee.. I know Minato is noble, but this is just ridiculous.

[Nate River]

yeah but he's a troll. he don't debate even LOL

If he trolls report him.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Oh. I actually guessed it. Hey, I'm dealing with sony fanboys as of late. I guess I know what equals to NH fan.

Last shot fired today. Anyway, I need a break.

All the fanboys are retarded either XBOX or PS4, we all know that the deciding factor is the price point, and exclusives obviously.
But the problem is that MS focused more on quantity rather than quality and the problem lies on the fact that their exclusives are being lauched along with solid AAA titles multiplatform games that everyone is looking after, MS exclusives wont sell, there's no point on delivering 6 exclusives that wont sell well.
Everyone is buying the systems along with either Call of Duty, BF4 or ACV, and the exception with Killzone Shadow Fall.

there's still Destiny to come out, along with WatchDogs.

 

Sony filled up with 2 exclusive + indies and MMO games in order to people to wait for 2014.

In fact any of the purchases are justificable, there's no reason to buy a XONE or a PS4 right off.

It become a matter of hype train.

 

From this chapter, i'd say narusaku=/=obirin anymore. I'm sorry but that parralel is dead now. Sakura is not Naruto's only light.

This logic is totally flawed is like picking up Kushina and saying "Sakura is not the kyuubi's jinchuuriki therefore the parallel is dead".

Gladly Sakura is not Naruto's light but Kishi depicted that if you only have one source of strenght you're bond that fail and that mirrors to the godly Hinata who has Naruto as her only source of light.

Sakura overcome her sadness when Sasuke left out the village with Naruto and which he become her new source of light and give her a purpose on her life, "she decide to train harder with Tsunade to become strong and help Naruto to bring back Sasuke".

 

Well we're each entitled to our own opinions and this stuff is more reserved for the debate thread. But we've been over this already man, just go back to the debate thread if you want my opinion and reasons.

 

Agree just pointed out that your logic to prove that Kakashi had feelings for Rin and could not return her feelings because he felt that he was unworthy of her didnt make sense and the fact that you said that Kakashi is now a parallel of Naruto.

I understand that you like Kakashi and all but that really doesnt make sense.

Being unworthy of someome or even holding something back doesnt make the person to reject someome feelings.
Sakura is there to prove this point by even thinking she was unworthy of Naruto she did a confession anyway, and Naruto even also was bringing up to accept her confession until she started talking about Sasuke.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 14 November 2013 - 12:35 AM.

[Lid]

So infinite Tsukiyomi is not going to happen, the clouds covering the moon. Also isn't Naruto not supposed to use Rasenshuriken, unless he is in sage mode. 

 

I would love if Madara's whole plot is stopped by clouds passing by XD

[rocci]

It's pretty simple
Kakashi : what would happen if sasuke didn't become a kitten, and let go his avenger quest.

Rin : dead sakura.

Obito : I don't think this is the first time using love as a motive to enslave humanity. And obito is what could happen to naruto if naruto failed to save sakura and sasuke kill her in front of naruto.

And obirin parallel NS is what would happen if naruto fail to save sakura. I mean sakura always save when she get in dangerous situation.

[Shadow1275]

Agree just pointed out that your logic to prove that Kakashi had feelings for Rin and could not return her feelings because he felt that he was unworthy of her didnt make sense and the fact that you said that Kakashi is now a parallel of Naruto.

I understand that you like Kakashi and all but that really doesnt make sense.

Being unworthy of someome or even holding something back doesnt make the person to reject someome feelings.
Sakura is there to prove this point by even thinking she was unworthy of Naruto she did a confession anyway, and Naruto even also was bringing up to accept her confession until she started talking about Sasuke.

Except you used opinion and I used facts to back up my arguments. Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean they don't make sense or that you are correct.

[Fenris]

 

I would love if Madara's whole plot is stopped by clouds passing by XD

God dammit, Weather-san.

[Shadow1275]

God dammit, Weather-san.

My money's on Hashirama rejecting him again. I think it's a pretty safe bet.