181 replies to this topic

[Awes9]

Oh don't get me wrong, I think Naruto's obsession for Sasuke is killing him as well. That's the whole point. Become too obsessed and you end up unable to accept reality. Look at Obito. He was so obsessed with Rin that when she died, he couldn't accept reality. He broke. I mentioned this in my Walls of Naruto if you want to go read this. Itachi even comments on his obsession because he says "If you don't accept the outcomes, then you are no better than Obito himself." The Uchiha are huge in this area with obsession and being unable to accept truths.

Like I said, why is Sakura's obsession in part 1 about Sasuke a "bad trait," but you have a hard time seeing Hinata's obsession as a "bad trait?" I know why and it is a common problem among many situations.

The obsession can be used as a weakness such as when Kakashi manipulated Sakura with his injured Sasuke disguise. It prevents people from thinking tactically in a situation that requires it. Again, Hinata's confession: She didn't help at all and in fact made the situation worse. Without Minato's safety protocols, not only would Naruto die, but so would everyone else in the village...all because she wanted to confess her love. That's why it is a bad trait...especially for Hinata who has pushed her love above everything else.

"I think the problem is that you guys are looking at it from your perspective not from Kishi's perspective"

I could say the same thing when people pick on Sakura despite Kishi making her a much stronger person. How many times do people push Sakura's obsession with Sasuke to the front of the row when Sakura has not been obsessive at all since part 1? How many times do people call Sakura a liar when Kishi has said on several occasions she wasn't? How many times has Sakura looked at in ways all because people want Hinata to be a better girl?

I am Naruto fan first. I am reading this manga as such. I am a NS fan, but first and for most I am a Naruto fan. I am a manga fan. I have seen what fandoms can do to a manga and have destroyed some of the best manga ever simply because they "demand" a certain outcome.

If I go by what Kishi has written so far...NS is canon. He has developed this pairing since part 1 and supported it throughout the entire manga. Hinata barely gets any moments at all and are so few and far between that she fades as quickly as she shows up. This is the main argument NS have. We don't like the pairing because it "looks cute." We like the pairing because we saw these characters grow up together on screen since the beginning.

If Kishi's intention this entire time was NH, then he did a horrible job at it. If his intention is NS, then you can see how this is the most logical giving the writing elements he has done. Some even consistent with other canon pairings in other manga. As a whole, this manga supports NS.

I don't remember well but I tought Itachi was telling Naruto that he needs to accept other people's help, nothing to do with his obsession, he was even happy that Sasuke has a friend like him. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Still Naruto's quest to save Sasuke is supposed to be seen as a great thing, the whole point of this flashback or at least in my opinion is to show Naruto will succeed where Hashirama failed and therefore break the cycle of hatred.

"That's why it is a bad trait...especially for Hinata who has pushed her love above everything else." sure it may be bad if you look at it realistically but in Hinata's case she's just a side character whose main trait is her love for Naruto, it's Kishi fault for making it her only focus but I don't think that's the impression he wanted to give. You take Naruto and Obito (Hashirama's case is looking more and more similar to Naruto as the flashback goes on) as examples and both of them altough having infinitely more weight in the plot, more panel times still displays obsession towards an other person, all of this boils down to Kishi's weird way of showing bonds even if it doesn't always make sense.

I already covered the part of Hinata's confession, it was a selfish act because the point wasn't to save Naruto but to confess because she tought she was going to die along with everyone else, now it doesn't make Hinata selfish even the most selfless person can sometimes be selfish.

I agree about the Sakura part but I don't want to be at the same level as these Sakura haters whose only agenda is to get her out the way so NH can happen with bias like "Sakura only cares about Sasuke not Naruto" "Sakura will never love Naruto she only loves Sasuke""Sakura's love for Sasuke is eternal and written in the stars"... all of this will bite them in the ass in the appropriate time and they will be responsible for this by twisting the manga and fueling their own denial but that's not the discussion at hand. If this is a response to my post earlier all I wanted to give is a possible reason for why people despise Sakura and elevate Hinata as some kind of godess who can do no wrong. Sakura has come a long way from her part 1 self, she's not the same obsessed fangirl altough some people don't see it that's their problem.

"I am Naruto fan first. I am reading this manga as such. I am a NS fan, but first and for most I am a Naruto fan. I am a manga fan. I have seen what fandoms can do to a manga and have destroyed some of the best manga ever simply because they "demand" a certain outcome."
I agree but I get the impression we are drifting away from the subject at hand, the problem here is that we the NS fandom are also part of this fandom and therefore part of the problem, there are bad apples in every fandom, we can only hope Kishi will do what he wants to do without any interference from fans.

Again I don't see what NS or NH has to do with this, there are a lot of people who likes Hinata but hates NH. I don't think NH is the endgame at all I still think NS is the end pairing but that's not the point. Still Kishi will need to redeem NS, the confession and then Naruto and Sakura acting as if nothing happened, the whole Kage summit fiasco the forced (there's no other words to describe this nonsense) Sakura's love for Sasuke is still bad writing in my opinion but I will judge the series as a whole when the manga will end because as of now NS has lost a lot of its appeal from my personal perspective. As for NH it's completely illogical, goes against the manga's theme against Naruto's character and on and on and on but if and that's a big if it becomes canon then it will show Kishi cares more about money than his own work.

Sorry for the errors, I'm not the best in english and sorry if I misunderstood what you wanted to say.

[Saku-chan]

2009 interview:
"As for Sakura... Sasuke... what about Sasuke? Naruto is close and she worries about Naruto as well, but as expected, she for.. Sasuke.

Because of this, she acted quite haughty towards that guy. She used Naruto's love for her and told him she loved him. - this is a comment from the anime team pointed out a by a transtator.

Kishimoto:
On the contrary.... I felt like depicting an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn impression.
So... she became such a character, but... well... from here on, maybe I should draw her showing a bit more spirit.
I figured I had placed her in a heroin-like situation
But from the readers I was told harshly that she wasn't heroin-ish at all
Perhaps I should show depict her a bit more like a heroin
Because you say 'Hinata Hinata,' I say 'She's not Hinata'

Damn straight she is not Hinata! Nadeshiko types sure are popular though. Thanks for pasting this.

I disagree completely. Sorry, but I already said my peace on this. So agree to disagree. I see Hinata as selfish and find her obsession a huge deterrent to her development. Just as Sakura's obsession was her deterrent and, if Itachi's theory is right, Naruto's obsession might be his deterrent.

Selfless acts with Selfish intention.

I respect your stance. I just have a soft spot for unrequited love situations. It's a personal thing.

I tend to feel like Hinata's development only seems hindered because Kishi hasn't talked about anything else that's going on in her life. She's obviously friendly with Neji now and she's a lot happier. Am I the only one longing for some Hinata and Hanabi bonding? But she's a secondary character, so Kishi is forced to only write about the things that relate to Naruto, the main character. This is unfortunately the unrequited love that has been beaten to death.

Different in some parts and yet alike in others. Obsession is obsession. It can be in matters of love or object terms, but they all deter people from accepting a truth. Positive or negative, but in this case I find obsession to be negative and even in the manga it is shown to be a negative trait. Similar like how in Star Wars where Anakin was so obsessed with Padame dying he lost everything else including himself.

Obito loved Rin. When she died, he became so obsessed about her that he became evil (and I use this term lightly) and focused just on getting her back no matter what the cost.

Sakura's Obsession with Sasuke has gotten her into trouble and Kakashi has shown this where people can manipulate it.

Hinata's obsession has also gotten her into trouble and while, yes not all her moments has put Naruto in harm's way, it has done something to her. She neglected herself. As I said, this has caused her character to remain stagnant and feel like a broken record. Neji died? Who cares? She got to hold Naruto's hand. This is what makes me frown at her. This is all because she cared too much about holding Naruto's hand. This should have been the last thing in her mind and while it didn't make the situation worse, it made her character look worse.

Obsession can be good if it provides a means to improve. Naruto was obsessed with being Hokage and thus it made him not give up. However, if his obsession with Sasuke overtakes him and he can't see anything or anyone else...then he loses himself. That's bad.

This is the point I am trying to make. I judge Sakura the same way. I judge Naruto the same way. I judge Hinata the same way. It is as fair as I can make it.

It is fair to acknowledge all of the times their obsessions have gotten them into trouble, but Hinata's obsession also helped her. She grew stronger and improved her skills because of Naruto's nindo and attitude. She is not the same as early Part I Sakura who would rather blow dry her hair to be pretty for Sasuke than be serious about being a ninja.

I will admit, her comment about Naruto's hand was not my cup of tea. She is shown defending Neji right after the hand holding incident, but one would think that you'd not be focused on hand holding when your close cousin has just died.

The Fountain movie has Hugh Jackman's character care more about finding a cure then spending time with his love. When she died, he regretting not spending time with her. That's what happens when you let obsession take control. You forget everything else that matters in the world.

Naruto....he might be so obsessed with Sasuke that he forgets to see Sakura and neglects her.
Hinata...might get so obsessive with Naruto that she forgets that she has to be the next in line to lead her clan.

It's not certain, but this is what could happen.

That could happen if things go too far, but I don't think Hinata would lose sight of her responsibilities. I think she has a good support network that keeps her grounded. That kind of self destruction sounds like a worse case scenario for her character.

[Awes9]

Treats her Decently? Hmm. Well can't argue with that, but that means they have a problem with Sasuke then not Sakura, yet they still bash her. Would they still toot heir horns if Sakura had liked someone else that wasn't so angsty? And Naruto treats Hinata no differently than how he treats his other friends, so it is not that much of a justification.

No they have a problem with Sakura because she loves a guy who doesn't care about her, ignore her, degrade her, and now tried to kill her 3 times Sasuke didn't tell her to love him it's part of her character but even if Sakura loved a less angsty guy there are still a lot of others reasons why they hate her, some examples : she treated Naruto badly (altough she changed early on in part 1), she's Naruto's love interest (therefore she gets in the way of Hinata and her sex toy and other pairings), she's supposed to be a main character but she doesn't show it, she relies on Naruto (like everyone in the freaking manga), she has too much of a personality (a lot of young men nowadays prefer docile girl), she's not curvy enough (docile girls with curves I let you imagine the rest)... I think you get the idea a lot of these reasons are shallow, ridiculous and biased of course you will never hear people say it out loud they would rather distort the manga and Sakura's achievements to defend their own biased view, this is the beauty of the Naruto fandom.

Well Naruto still accepts Hinata as a friend I can't say the same for Sasuke, the level of negativity Sakura's love for Sasuke is incomparable to Naruto and Hinata's bond, Kishi never misses an opportunity to show it.Also for some people Naruto doesn't treat Hinata the same way he treats others he said to her "I like people like you" which translates to "I may be attracted to girls like you" go figure.

Edited by Awes9, 03 April 2013 - 04:25 AM.

[Codus N]

Sorry to kind of derail, but holy cow did he say this in an interview? Was this about the "confession?"



I'll just be the devil's advocate here and say that I don't think Hinata was being 'selfish' other than confessing feelings in the middle of a battle. That can be hella distracting girl. I guess she had resolved to die and this kind of shows that she had the courage to confess before dying. (I think it's courage. Confessing is hard.) Jumping in to try and help was pretty selfless. Maybe she didn't think she'd have time to remove the spikes or whatever. Maybe she thought that if she became a distraction, Naruto could free himself.

I don't think her love for Naruto is a bad obsession. I don't think love is a bad obsession inherently. It's how you deal with it that counts. I don't think she's the type to reject reality if Naruto were with someone else/dead. She's had good teachers and friends who talk about loss and how to accept it. Obito had Madara. Madara was his only source of information on how to deal with loss. It's no wonder he turned out like he did. Loving someone a lot does not automatically mean that they will turn into a murdering psychopath.

Sakura's fangirling was a different type of obsession. Sasuke was the epitome of success and prestige for her when she was little, so she idolized him and sought him out. I think her feelings for him got muddled after chapter 3 (dammit Naruto and you confusing her with your Henge!) and she developed feelings for him.

Her feelings have matured more and she's probably confused about what Sasuke means to her exactly. She thinks of him as a teammate, someone she likes/liked, and most importantly someone who is precious to Naruto.

I know some of this is kind of off topic, but I wanted to sort of address this word obsession as people are using it here. Hinata's "obsession" =/= Obito's "obsession" =/= Sakura's "obsession"

There are different connotations for all three of these uses.

The biggest problem with Kishi is that he failed to write the confession as well as he should have. That's why there's claims of Sakura being a liar and all that. Despite his claims.

As for your post, this is another side of the argument that I actually agree with. That's why I wouldn't mind either becoming canon.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

The biggest problem with Kishi is that he failed to write the confession as well as he should have. That's why there's claims of Sakura being a liar and all that. Despite his claims.

As for your post, this is another side of the argument that I actually agree with. That's why I wouldn't mind either becoming canon.

I dont think so dude i think it has more with Sakura hate fandom.
It's a case of double standards, Sakura did that for the sake of Naruto and she was going to kill Sasuke and end this, she did the confession to break the promise and lift Naruto's burden, now she was honest, because she had feelings for Naruto, since Kishimoto told that she was honest then it confirms that she has feelings "love" towards Naruto not "really cares about..." she hasnt recognized those yet but it's this way.

[Jenskott]

It seems like if every month or two months someone opens a "What do you think about Hinata?" thread. I am aware everybody is free to open how many threads they please and about whatever subject they want, and nobody forces me to read them, but it is getting a bit eyebrow-rising, IMO. Why so many people feels the necessity of asking other members what is their opinion about Hinata? Why not reading the other threads?

Anyway, my opinion about Hinata may be summarized in three words.

Uninteresting background character.

That is all. I don't hate her. I don't hate or bash characters, and doing so looks like a waste of time and energy to me. Buuuuut she bores me, she is a character archetype I don't find interesting, and she barely shows up in the story, so I don't find her interesting and I don't mind her. She just is there.

It's like if someone asks me about Gemma, Raido or Aoba. Who, you ask? My point, exactly.

And that was my position long before I actively was a NS shipper. So my ship has nothing to do with it.

[James S Cassidy]

The biggest problem with Kishi is that he failed to write the confession as well as he should have. That's why there's claims of Sakura being a liar and all that. Despite his claims.

I'm sorry, but if the author says she was honest, you have to accept it. I don't care how the scene was written. Kishi said she was honest: End of story. There should be no more discussion. I understand that the scene might be interpreted differently, but there is no take back's in manga. Once you print it, it is done. Sadly, you can't see what kind of reactions you get until you publish it. He thought he did it right. He did it the way he wanted. However, the message he tried to convey was not the message the readers got....at least not the NH fans. I am sure Kishi would have written it differently if he got another chance to depict it.

One thing readers really fail to see is how much a hero Sakura really is and it goes beyond just "jumping in front of a bullet." Sakura did something that Hinata has not done yet and it is sad because she really was willing to sacrifice everything. Anybody can risk their life, but can you risk your image? What do I mean by this? Sakura was willing to let Naruto hate her. She was not just willing to lay down her life, but her love for him, their friendship, and her image of her to him all for the sake of easing his burdens. So he can live his life for once. If it meant him hating her, so be it.

Hinata has not done this. Yeah she has laid down her life for him, but will she be willing to put her love on the line to protect him? So far, she hasn't. Can she put her love aside so he can be happy? I have yet to see such a thing. Granted, I thought she did. I thought when Sakura hugged Naruto she gave this look like: "Maybe, I should let him be with who he wants to be with. As long as he is happy, so am I." Sadly, this huge respect I had for that vanished later down the road in 573. So as I see it, she came full circle.

In all the interviews with Kishi, many of times have people questioned Sakura's character, but never have they mentioned Hinata's character. I would love to ask this to Kishi: "Do you mean to depict Hinata as a satellite character to Naruto? From what I keep seeing, she is unable to stand on her own feet without Naruto lending a hand. Is this a mistake or is this how it was intended?"

If he does give an answer, then I would base my view of her from that from now on. However, since no one has questioned her character at all and gone on to keep thinking she is perfect as is, then I may never get this answer. So the best I got is the manga and as I said from a manga point of view, Hinata is a weak character. It's not about her being cute or shy that disturbs me, it's her lack of strength (not necessary physical strength), vigor, and character.

Now, here is a bigger kick. I actually have more respect for Hinata than most of her fanbase. I loved flawed characters because they are the most realistic. Hinata is a flawed character and still has huge amounts of room to improve. Will she improve? Unknown. That is up to Kishi, but one thing I do know is she isn't as weak as her own fanbase makes her out to be. I, at least, give her more character than that. I have seen many NH fans claim that if Naruto doesn't end up with Hinata, she would be devastated and not want to live anymore. Really? You really think Hinata is that weak? Come on, even Hinata wouldn't do that. She isn't THAT selfish and obsessed. She is not that extreme. I don't want people confused by this. I say she is selfish and obsessed, but I don't think in an extreme sense. Although, it could get to that. That's what concerns me.

This is a battle of a huge proportions: Are we the fans interpreting wrong or is Kishimoto displaying it wrong? Answer: Little bit of both. I would like to think I am trying to interpret this as honest as I can and the problem is I don't know what Kishi intends to do with Hinata. I don't know what he is really trying to convey. I know what he is trying to convey with Sakura because that is what he said he was doing. Never said anything on his intention of depicting Hinata.

So the next person who makes a post about whether or not a fan is interpreting it wrong keep in mind we know how Kishi intended for Sakura to be depicted cause he told us. We don't know how Hinata is supposed to be depicted.

@Awes and Codus
I want to ask you both this question of inquiry. Why is it that if I interpreting Hinata as this, I am wrong because I am interpreting it wrong. However, when Sakura is interpreted wrong and many fans misinterpret her on several occasions, it is Kishi's fault for not depicting it right? What if Kishi's at fault for me interpreting Hinata the way I see it or likewise what if it is the fans fault for interpreting Sakura wrong?

Where is the legitimate argument and where does bias play in? I can say that if no matter what Kishi does you can't see a character any other way, then it is bias. If people say that Hinata is perfect and don't even admit that she makes mistakes even when Hinata herself says she does.....you're biased. Same thing for Sakura.

I love Sakura, but I know what mistakes she has done and I also know what good she has done.

To close out, let me ask this. What is worse? An idea based on several moments and incidents in the entire manga or saying a pairing is canon based on one scene that is ambiguous? Ch. 615 means NH is canon? I find that to be a bigger misinterpretation than my own view of Hinata. At least mine has merits and thought process.

That is all. I don't hate her. I don't hate or bash characters, and doing so looks like a waste of time and energy to me. Buuuuut she bores me, she is a character archetype I don't find interesting, and she barely shows up in the story, so I don't find her interesting and I don't mind her. She just is there.

Sadly, sometimes people confuse criticism with bashing. So, it becomes hard when I want to criticize Hinata's character and I am put in the "basher" territory meanwhile when people bash Sakura I am supposed to keep quiet.

I tend to feel like Hinata's development only seems hindered because Kishi hasn't talked about anything else that's going on in her life. She's obviously friendly with Neji now and she's a lot happier. Am I the only one longing for some Hinata and Hanabi bonding? But she's a secondary character, so Kishi is forced to only write about the things that relate to Naruto, the main character. This is unfortunately the unrequited love that has been beaten to death.

It has been beaten to death on all fronts. Luckily it has been down to two. NS or NH. Sakura is the only one that has shown change. Naruto has not. NS is also an unrequited love. I don't think Kishi is "forced" to only write in a certain way, but it is quite possible he didn't want her depicted any other way. I don't know. All I have is the manga and in the manga without her love for Naruto, there is nothing else about her to warrant merit. It's sad, but it is true.

It is fair to acknowledge all of the times their obsessions have gotten them into trouble, but Hinata's obsession also helped her. She grew stronger and improved her skills because of Naruto's nindo and attitude. She is not the same as early Part I Sakura who would rather blow dry her hair to be pretty for Sasuke than be serious about being a ninja.

Fair enough. Like I said, it is not all negative, but....Didn't Sakura do the same thing? Sakura improved herself just as much also based around Naruto's nindo and attitude and she did it all even before she loved him. And again, she is ignored for this. So, the question I have with this is can Hinata improve without Naruto? Probably yes.

I want to give this to you and say "You are right," but a gut feeling has me saying "There is not enough info to show how much stronger she has gotten because of it seeing how she has lost all fights she has been in." I will say this, it has made her more confident. So, in a certain way, yes you are right. Skills? Again, not enough info. She really hasn't done anything huge on her own strength and skill.

As I said, part 1 Hinata was not really a problem in my eyes nor is part 2 Hinata either. It's the fans themselves who are the biggest problem. They give Hinata WAAAY too much credit and refuse to see the truth based off pure biased. "She was always there for Naruto." No, she wasn't. She has very few scenes and none of them really push Hinata to her brink. Whenever she is on screen, she is the damsel in distress. Even in 615, Neji had to save her.

I want to see her stand up on her own for once. Pretend Naruto didn't exist and let's see what she can do. Pretend she doesn't love Naruto at all. Sadly, we may never get this and it's a pity because I wanted to love Hinata's character. I really did.

Does she have an importance beyond her love for Naruto? She is a side-character, but some side-characters have made impacts. Just to ask, how much of an impact would she make if she never loved Naruto at all?

I will admit, her comment about Naruto's hand was not my cup of tea. She is shown defending Neji right after the hand holding incident, but one would think that you'd not be focused on hand holding when your close cousin has just died.


That's what ruined the scene for me and I was extremely disappointed. It's not always about pairings. I wish more people would see this.

That could happen if things go too far, but I don't think Hinata would lose sight of her responsibilities. I think she has a good support network that keeps her grounded. That kind of self destruction sounds like a worse case scenario for her character.

Most NH fans I've talked to don't think she does. Like I said, they think if NH doesn't happen Hinata would self-destruct. I don't agree with this, but I will say this is a message the manga presents a lot. Not the Hinata self-destruction, but that obsession can lead to self-destruction.

If NS does happen, would Hinata move on? Secretly, this is another reason why I want NS to become canon and not NH. I want to prove the NH fans wrong and say that she is independent and doesn't need Naruto to find strength.

I want her to be known for more than just because "She loves Naruto."

Edited by James S Cassidy, 03 April 2013 - 08:56 PM.

[HauntedCake]

Great post James. Agreed

[StrikerTheNoble]

I'm sorry, but if the author says she was honest, you have to accept it. I don't care how the scene was written. Kishi said she was honest: End of story. There should be no more discussion. I understand that the scene might be interpreted differently, but there is no take back's in manga. Once you print it, it is done. Sadly, you can't see what kind of reactions you get until you publish it. He thought he did it right. He did it the way he wanted. However, the message he tried to convey was not the message the readers got....at least not the NH fans. I am sure Kishi would have written it differently if he got another chance to depict it.

One thing readers really fail to see is how much a hero Sakura really is and it goes beyond just "jumping in front of a bullet." Sakura did something that Hinata has not done yet and it is sad because she really was willing to sacrifice everything. Anybody can risk their life, but can you risk your image? What do I mean by this? Sakura was willing Naruto hating her. She was not just willing to lay down her life, but her love for him, their friendship, and her image of her to him all for the sake of easing his burdens. So he can live his life for once. If it meant him hating her, so be it.

Hinata has not done this. Yeah she has laid down her life for him, but will she be willing to put her love on the line to protect him? So far, she hasn't. Can she put her love aside so he can be happy? I have yet to see such a thing. Granted, I thought she did. I thought when Sakura hugged Naruto she gave this look like: "Maybe, I should let him be with who he wants to be with. As long as he is happy, so am I." Sadly, this huge respect I had for that vanished later down the road in 573. So as I see it, she came full circle.

In all the interviews with Kishi, many of times have people questioned Sakura's character, but never have they mentioned Hinata's character. I would love to ask this to Kishi: "Do you mean to depict Hinata as a satellite character to Naruto? From what I keep seeing, she is unable to stand on her own feet without Naruto lending a hand. Is this a mistake or is this how it was intended?"

If he does give an answer, then I would base my view of her from that from now on. However, since no one has questioned her character at all and gone on to keep thinking she is perfect as is, then I may never get this answer. So the best I got is the manga and as I said from a manga point of view, Hinata is a weak character. It's not about her being cute or shy that disturbs me, it's her lack of strength (not necessary physical strength), vigor, and character.

Now, here is a bigger kick. I actually have more respect for Hinata than most of her fanbase. I loved flawed characters because they are the most realistic. Hinata is a flawed character and still has huge amounts of room to improve. Will she improve? Unknown. That is up to Kishi, but one thing I do know is she isn't as weak as her own fanbase makes her our to be. I, at least, give her more character than that. I have seen many NH fans claim that if Naruto doesn't end up with Hinata, she would be devastated and not want to live anymore. Really? You really think Hinata is that weak? Come on, even Hinata wouldn't do that. She isn't THAT selfish and obsessed. She is not that extreme. I don't want people confused by this. I say she is selfish and obsessed, but I don't think in an extreme sense. Although, it could get to that. That's what concerns me.

This is a battle of a huge proportions: Are we the fans interpreting wrong or is Kishimoto displaying it wrong? Answer: Little bit of both. I would like to think I am trying to interpret this as honest as I can and the problem is I don't know what Kishi intends to do with Hinata. I don't know what he is really trying to convey. I know what he is trying to convey with Sakura because that is what he said he was doing. Never said anything on his intention of depicting Hinata.

So the next person who makes a post about whether or not a fan is interpreting it wrong keep in mind we know how Kishi intended for Sakura to be depicted cause he told us. We don't know how Hinata is supposed to be depicted.

@Awes and Codus
I want to you ask you both this question of inquiry. Why is it that if I interpreting Hinata as this, I am wrong because I am interpreting it wrong. However, when Sakura is interpreted wrong and many fans misinterpret her on several occasions, it is Kishi's fault for not depicting it right? What if Kishi's at fault for me interpreting Hinata the way I see it or likewise what if it is the fans fault for interpreting Sakura wrong?

Where is the legitimate argument and where does bias play in? I can say that if no matter what Kishi does you can't see a character any other way, then it is bias. If people say that Hinata is perfect and don't even admit that she makes mistakes even when Hinata herself says she does.....you're biased. Same thing for Sakura.

I love Sakura, but I know what mistakes she has done and I also know what good she has done.

To close out, let me ask this. What is worse? An idea based on several moments and incidents in the entire manga or saying a pairing is canon based on one scene that is ambiguous? Ch. 615 means NH is canon? I find that to be a bigger misinterpretation than my own view of Hinata. At least mine has merits and thought process.



Sadly, sometimes people confuse criticism with bashing. So, it becomes hard when I want to criticize Hinata's character and I am put in the "basher" territory meanwhile when people bash Sakura I am supposed to keep quiet.



It has been beaten to death on all fronts. Luckily it has been down to two. NS or NH. Sakura is the only one that has shown change. Naruto has not. NS is also an unrequited love. I don't think Kishi is "forced" to only write in a certain way, but it is quite possible he didn't want her depicted any other way. I don't know. All I have is the manga and in the manga without her love for Naruto, there is nothing else about her to warrant merit. It's sad, but it is true.



Fair enough. Like I said, it is not all negative, but....Didn't Sakura do the same thing? Sakura improved herself just as much also based around Naruto's nindo and attitude and she did it all even before she loved him. And again, she is ignored for this. So, the question I have with this is can Hinata improve without Naruto? Probably yes.

I want to give this to you and say "You are right," but a gut feeling has me saying "There is not enough info to show how stronger she has gotten because of it seeing how she has lost all fights she has been in." I will say this, it has made her more confident. So, in a certain way, yes you are right. Skills? Again, not enough info. She really hasn't done anything huge on her own strength and skill.

As I said, part 1 Hinata was not really a problem in my eyes nor is part 2 Hinata either. It's the fans themselves who are the biggest problem. They give Hinata WAAAY too much credit and refuse to see the truth based off pure biased. "She was always there for Naruto." No, she wasn't. She has very few scenes and none of them really push Hinata to her brink. Whenever she is on screen, she is the damsel in distress. Even in 615, Neji had to save her.

I want to see her stand up on her own for once. Pretend Naruto didn't exist and let's see what she can do. Pretend she doesn't love Naruto at all. Sadly, we may never get this and it's a pity because I wanted to love Hinata's character. I really did.

Does she have an importance beyond her love for Naruto? She is a side-character, but some side-characters have made impacts. Just to ask, how much of an impact would she make if she never loved Naruto at all?

I will admit, her comment about Naruto's hand was not my cup of tea. She is shown defending Neji right after the hand holding incident, but one would think that you'd not be focused on hand holding when your close cousin has just died.


That's what ruined the scene for me and I was extremely disappointed. It's not always about pairings. I wish more people would see this.



Most NH fans I've talked to don't think she does. Like I said, they think if NH doesn't happen Hinata would self-destruct. I don't agree with this, but I will say this is a message the manga presents a lot. Not the Hinata self-destruction, but that obsession can lead to self-destruction.

If NS does happen, would Hinata move on? Secretly, this is another reason why I want NS to become canon and not NH. I want to prove the NH fans wrong and say that she is independent and doesn't need Naruto to find strength.

I want her to be known for more than just because "She loves Naruto."

Agreed. Hinata had so much potential. She is the Hyuuga princes she had endles way to develop. And she is a bit of a tragic character, being rejected by her family, shunned by her father, the only family member who really cared about her was Neji and even he beat the crap of her. But It`s hard to focus on that when she doesn`t really give a crap. Or at least that`s what it seems like. All her "problems" are related to "Naruto-kun doesn`t love me". She comepletly ignores all her actual problems. My point is why should we care if she doesn`t.

Also about the Sakura blow-drying thing. She was a 12 year old girl who got a chance to spend time with the boy she fancied. Ninja or not it was the logical way for to behave. Besides how many of you would have a problem with it if she was doing for Naruto now? I wouldn`t. Naruto sure as hell wouldn`t.

Just once I want to hear Hinata go: DADDY Y U NO LOVE?! in the manga. Just once, but no. She only focuses on Naruto. So my respect and simpathy for her is minimal. Again good post.

[Don-kun]

I found this on DA, posted by UlquiorraKage5 and created by Broken_Figurine don't know if they are the same user.


First off, let me just say that I am very glad to have encountered someone here that is actually good at discussing things like this. You made the first decent argument that Hinata isn't shallow that I've encountered yet. That being said, there are some holes here and there. Now, I would reply myself, but there's a post that I saw a looong time ago that stated why Hinata is..as she is, better than I could ever try to imitate. Be warned, though: this is an EXTREMELY long post, but I feel that it explains everything wonderfully. It is about a year old; that being said, it still serves its purpose. If you don't want to read it all, I totally understand. Here goes:


"Common advice in storytelling is to show, not tell. You could argue that Kishimoto could be guilty of this in many aspects of is hit series Naruto, but in the case of his widely popular character Hinata Hyuuga; it isn't so much what he's telling—or what he's showing. In a peculiar twist, the character's traits and appeal are largely due to what the readers tell us, not by what the characters say or show in the original work. This is a minor character that shows up every now and again, so fans have relatively little to work off of, but surely a small part does not a small character make. In her, albeit, limited scenes, according to her fanbase she has proven herself kind, timid, relatable, hard-working and inspirational; even going so far as to say she would make a better heroine than the current leading lady. She is a role model for people who face social anxieties, and has the insight and pure-heartedness of her archetype to be the first who has cheered on our down-hearted male lead, even if it was from the shadows where her feelings couldn’t reach him. Indeed, it seems like every scene is devoted to showing how timid this young lady is, and how she wants to become a stronger person by the example the titular character has shown us.

While this is fine and noble, there is something, something that has bugged me since my foray into the Naruto fandom about the love and appreciation this character gets. As far as the scenes have gone, for over a span of about 500+ chapters, that last aspect of her character is the only aspect of her character. Naruto, the character, is the centre of her universe. Fans and Kishimoto seem to propagate this idea, with constant references to her potential to be his love interest, and going so far as to see him as her Sun (which, coincidently, is the centre of our universe—go figure) in reference to her very name and character theme. For me, more startling than her constant referrals to him every time she happens to shows up, more upsetting is her lack of connection to anyone else.

There needs to be something said about this character’s history, of what was given to us (the anime likes to give us more, but I could see it as a ‘fan’ too). While details have been seldom explored, exposition via flashbacks has told us that she’s the heiress to a prominent clan which has a bloodline limit. Alright, so this makes the character a bit special. She has something that in a world of ninja gives her advantage to kick butt (something she was born with in a series that promotes winning by hard work) and it makes her to be likened to the status of a princess. She has been put down by for father for not being strong enough, all but abandoned by him, who favoured his younger but stronger daughter. Again, this is another piece to be able to relate to her. Winning the affection of those close around us, who we admire and love, is a universal thing, and not living up to our parents’ expectations is too. From wanting acknowledgment from a crush to a father, it is clear that this is a wholly sympathetic character and it would be understandable as to why—

Wait? What was that? There is something a little strange about this clan of her’s. Ah, right. Her family is divided by branch and by the main family. She is from the privileged main branch that gets to call all the shots and live happy and free, whereas all others who are not from that branch are forced to wear seals on their forehead and live in forced servitude or else be tortured to death). Now, Hinata has a cousin whose father died directly as a result of this, and who understandably is not so happy toward her. What would a kind-hearted person do in a situation like this? How would they confront the issue that what their family is doing is morally wrong, and that people close to that person are suffering because of it? Prove themselves that they are not the mean insults that the victim throws at them, of course.
Rather than sympathizing with her cousin, the issue when it was brought up was treated as Hinata’s time to shine. She is showing how she is able to fight back against her “fate” and not be a loser. Neji is the bad guy here, as he says the underdogs are doomed to be underdogs—and that is particularly insulting to our underdog main character too. Hinata offers no apology or goal to change the state of their clan. She wants to prove herself to Naruto, who is watching her, although she is fighting her cousin who lost a father because of her.

She is, of course, young and it could be said that she does not have the inner strength to go against the conventions of her family, or to see past Neji’s harsh exterior to the pained soul within. Unless, of course, Neji’s name is Naruto because even as a small child she could go against peer-pressure and Naruto’s bad behavior to see he was lonely and in need of acknowledgement, like her. Perhaps she does really feel badly about what happened, but because she’s shy and all, she can’t really communicate or show it.

Here is where fan speculation comes in. Being timid is a common excuse for this character not doing something that we think good people should do. Why doesn’t she ever approach Naruto, who is in desperate need for a friend? She is too shy, and perhaps her family wouldn’t let her hang out with someone like Naruto because of what he is (a common belief that was played out by the anime). Yes, she is shy, but the manga never states that the reason why she did not approach him is because her family forbade her. Furthermore, while Hinata does think back to watching Naruto and believing in him, there was never a flashback where she had expressed the same attention to Neji or a branch member. You never see her, standing behind a door, looking at her cousin and wishing she could find the strength within herself to reach out and comfort him. She is never depicted standing around, feeling powerless to watch as her father or someone else in authority tortures her family members. As readers, we just assume this goes on but because she’s a minor character, it’s not shown. It is filed under The Many Things Hinata Does That Kishimoto Can’t Show Us but Totally Intends for Her Character.

If Kishimoto intended for her to be sympathetic towards her cousin or more unfortunate family members, then why does he continue to have her focus be solely on Naruto? Her lack of interactions with other characters is hardly ever brought up by the Naruto fandom. She is an older sister, but that seems completely irrelevant as her sister has not showed up since the Chuunin exams. Her interaction with Neji should have been a lot more emphasized, but it seems Hinata only acts as another addition to his more tragic character. Kurenai had apparently acted like a mother to her when her father rejected her, yet she has yet to show any sorrow for the woman who lost her lover and has a child.

If we define good and kindness by a character not doing anything bad, then I suppose Hinata fits that description. Even in recent chapters now, where a “lot” (at least in comparison) has happened for her character, the issues don’t seem to have settled. Her confession for Naruto and her sacrifice display how devoted and in love her character is. She talks about admiring him, about how he inspired her, and then she confesses and tries to defend him in his hour of need. What I honestly wish she would have done, at the risk of sounding like a NejiHina fan, is if this sacrificing scene could have been used for her cousin instead. If Neji was the one in danger and she, as the Hyuuga heiress, had stepped in to save him even though he was a branch member, and told him that she’s watched him and her family suffer that she was sorry for what he had gone through, but at least she could do this much for him. It would have brought the issue with Neji’s father full circle, added depth to her character and insight on how she views her family, as well as beefing up the scenes in the recent chapters where she stands back to back with him.

The recent chapters suggest growth, but perhaps I’m a bit cynical after all this time, but merely putting characters side by side and fighting does not give character development. Sure, it seems that during the years they have reached some understanding, yet once again this is not shown throughout the manga. It feels tacked on, and I’m not convinced that they really, truly care or understand each other like it’s supposed to feel. No matter—fans can and have already done the telling. Oh, and we can’t forget Naruto. After all, failure is not an option because this war is protecting him. The fate of the world hangs on balance, too.

To conclude, Hinata doesn’t do enough to back up the claims of her character. Being timid does not equate to kindness and nurturing, people. She fits the archetype, so you would think she’s really sweet, but at the worst she comes off as an entirely shallow character. The character has no real interactions outside of her love interest—no goals, no thoughts, beyond him. I haven’t seen her helping anyone aside from him. Maybe that’s why her fans are largely NaruHina fans, because that is the only developed part of her.

I encourage people to show me manga evidence, not what you perceive of the character. For instance: "Her relationship with Kiba is a close one because she is his teammate and Hinata and Kiba have personalities that would mesh together" is character perception and speculation. Close with Kiba? How so? In these various panels, where she is shown having a conversation of a personal nature with him? That is my big issue. Who is Hinata, just from what the manga tells us, and how it is so many people praise her? I’m not sure anymore what this character should be outside of “Shy love interest of Naruto…Who is a Hyuuga.” I don't feel like I hate this character, so if this was taken as bashing I apologize, but it is probably the most confusing aspect of the Naruto fandom for me.

The issue isn’t even that she’s stereotypical, or fanboy/girl fodder. Her lack of character interactions, motivations, and character outside of Naruto are barely touched on. I don’t see many people complaining about her lack of compassion toward her family. Why hasn’t this character, if she is supposed to be so nice and able to see the true character within people (Naruto), does she create no goals or strive toward fixing the issue with her family? Her first real introduction was during the fight against Neji, and one of the conflicts of the story came up. Her sister, her cousin, her father… They really haven’t been touched on.

I mentioned show and tell earlier. In the case of Ginny, she was a big “tell-not-show” character. Characters and the author would speak of her talents, she’d get away with bad behaviour, and her character took an unexplained, off-screen 360. I don’t think Kishimoto has really done this, as Hinata hasn’t deviated much or done much for her character. Rather, it seems that this large fanbase, from fanboys to just people who casually like her, give her that Ginny status. Heck, the anime does it most notoriously. She’s sweet, sensitive, observational, friend to all people, and a role model for shy people who want to grow out and fulfill their potential. The way people perceive her character, and the fact that so many people do to the point that “poor Hinata” is instantly defended if someone brings up criticism. If it was all about sex appeal, then why are so many females so pro-Hinata but so anti-Sakura? Plus, that would mean characters like Mei, Tsunade, Temari, women who have more of that obvious sex appeal, would be given Hinata-like status.

I know she is shy and thus appeals to shy people or those who think shy girls are so moe, but that doesn’t explain the huge amounts of love she gets. I don’t know that many shy-girl types that have done as minimum as she did, and then get proclaimed to be better than most female characters in popular fandoms. She’s a fan-favourite, and a lot of people describe her character favourably… But I haven’t seen any evidence in-manga. I don’t think Kishimoto has even really exploited her moe-like status that much."

-Broken_Figurine

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I found this on DA, posted by UlquiorraKage5 and created by Broken_Figurine don't know if they are the same user.


First off, let me just say that I am very glad to have encountered someone here that is actually good at discussing things like this. You made the first decent argument that Hinata isn't shallow that I've encountered yet. That being said, there are some holes here and there. Now, I would reply myself, but there's a post that I saw a looong time ago that stated why Hinata is..as she is, better than I could ever try to imitate. Be warned, though: this is an EXTREMELY long post, but I feel that it explains everything wonderfully. It is about a year old; that being said, it still serves its purpose. If you don't want to read it all, I totally understand. Here goes:


"Common advice in storytelling is to show, not tell. You could argue that Kishimoto could be guilty of this in many aspects of is hit series Naruto, but in the case of his widely popular character Hinata Hyuuga; it isn't so much what he's telling—or what he's showing. In a peculiar twist, the character's traits and appeal are largely due to what the readers tell us, not by what the characters say or show in the original work. This is a minor character that shows up every now and again, so fans have relatively little to work off of, but surely a small part does not a small character make. In her, albeit, limited scenes, according to her fanbase she has proven herself kind, timid, relatable, hard-working and inspirational; even going so far as to say she would make a better heroine than the current leading lady. She is a role model for people who face social anxieties, and has the insight and pure-heartedness of her archetype to be the first who has cheered on our down-hearted male lead, even if it was from the shadows where her feelings couldn’t reach him. Indeed, it seems like every scene is devoted to showing how timid this young lady is, and how she wants to become a stronger person by the example the titular character has shown us.

While this is fine and noble, there is something, something that has bugged me since my foray into the Naruto fandom about the love and appreciation this character gets. As far as the scenes have gone, for over a span of about 500+ chapters, that last aspect of her character is the only aspect of her character. Naruto, the character, is the centre of her universe. Fans and Kishimoto seem to propagate this idea, with constant references to her potential to be his love interest, and going so far as to see him as her Sun (which, coincidently, is the centre of our universe—go figure) in reference to her very name and character theme. For me, more startling than her constant referrals to him every time she happens to shows up, more upsetting is her lack of connection to anyone else.

There needs to be something said about this character’s history, of what was given to us (the anime likes to give us more, but I could see it as a ‘fan’ too). While details have been seldom explored, exposition via flashbacks has told us that she’s the heiress to a prominent clan which has a bloodline limit. Alright, so this makes the character a bit special. She has something that in a world of ninja gives her advantage to kick butt (something she was born with in a series that promotes winning by hard work) and it makes her to be likened to the status of a princess. She has been put down by for father for not being strong enough, all but abandoned by him, who favoured his younger but stronger daughter. Again, this is another piece to be able to relate to her. Winning the affection of those close around us, who we admire and love, is a universal thing, and not living up to our parents’ expectations is too. From wanting acknowledgment from a crush to a father, it is clear that this is a wholly sympathetic character and it would be understandable as to why—

Wait? What was that? There is something a little strange about this clan of her’s. Ah, right. Her family is divided by branch and by the main family. She is from the privileged main branch that gets to call all the shots and live happy and free, whereas all others who are not from that branch are forced to wear seals on their forehead and live in forced servitude or else be tortured to death). Now, Hinata has a cousin whose father died directly as a result of this, and who understandably is not so happy toward her. What would a kind-hearted person do in a situation like this? How would they confront the issue that what their family is doing is morally wrong, and that people close to that person are suffering because of it? Prove themselves that they are not the mean insults that the victim throws at them, of course.
Rather than sympathizing with her cousin, the issue when it was brought up was treated as Hinata’s time to shine. She is showing how she is able to fight back against her “fate” and not be a loser. Neji is the bad guy here, as he says the underdogs are doomed to be underdogs—and that is particularly insulting to our underdog main character too. Hinata offers no apology or goal to change the state of their clan. She wants to prove herself to Naruto, who is watching her, although she is fighting her cousin who lost a father because of her.

She is, of course, young and it could be said that she does not have the inner strength to go against the conventions of her family, or to see past Neji’s harsh exterior to the pained soul within. Unless, of course, Neji’s name is Naruto because even as a small child she could go against peer-pressure and Naruto’s bad behavior to see he was lonely and in need of acknowledgement, like her. Perhaps she does really feel badly about what happened, but because she’s shy and all, she can’t really communicate or show it.

Here is where fan speculation comes in. Being timid is a common excuse for this character not doing something that we think good people should do. Why doesn’t she ever approach Naruto, who is in desperate need for a friend? She is too shy, and perhaps her family wouldn’t let her hang out with someone like Naruto because of what he is (a common belief that was played out by the anime). Yes, she is shy, but the manga never states that the reason why she did not approach him is because her family forbade her. Furthermore, while Hinata does think back to watching Naruto and believing in him, there was never a flashback where she had expressed the same attention to Neji or a branch member. You never see her, standing behind a door, looking at her cousin and wishing she could find the strength within herself to reach out and comfort him. She is never depicted standing around, feeling powerless to watch as her father or someone else in authority tortures her family members. As readers, we just assume this goes on but because she’s a minor character, it’s not shown. It is filed under The Many Things Hinata Does That Kishimoto Can’t Show Us but Totally Intends for Her Character.

If Kishimoto intended for her to be sympathetic towards her cousin or more unfortunate family members, then why does he continue to have her focus be solely on Naruto? Her lack of interactions with other characters is hardly ever brought up by the Naruto fandom. She is an older sister, but that seems completely irrelevant as her sister has not showed up since the Chuunin exams. Her interaction with Neji should have been a lot more emphasized, but it seems Hinata only acts as another addition to his more tragic character. Kurenai had apparently acted like a mother to her when her father rejected her, yet she has yet to show any sorrow for the woman who lost her lover and has a child.

If we define good and kindness by a character not doing anything bad, then I suppose Hinata fits that description. Even in recent chapters now, where a “lot” (at least in comparison) has happened for her character, the issues don’t seem to have settled. Her confession for Naruto and her sacrifice display how devoted and in love her character is. She talks about admiring him, about how he inspired her, and then she confesses and tries to defend him in his hour of need. What I honestly wish she would have done, at the risk of sounding like a NejiHina fan, is if this sacrificing scene could have been used for her cousin instead. If Neji was the one in danger and she, as the Hyuuga heiress, had stepped in to save him even though he was a branch member, and told him that she’s watched him and her family suffer that she was sorry for what he had gone through, but at least she could do this much for him. It would have brought the issue with Neji’s father full circle, added depth to her character and insight on how she views her family, as well as beefing up the scenes in the recent chapters where she stands back to back with him.

The recent chapters suggest growth, but perhaps I’m a bit cynical after all this time, but merely putting characters side by side and fighting does not give character development. Sure, it seems that during the years they have reached some understanding, yet once again this is not shown throughout the manga. It feels tacked on, and I’m not convinced that they really, truly care or understand each other like it’s supposed to feel. No matter—fans can and have already done the telling. Oh, and we can’t forget Naruto. After all, failure is not an option because this war is protecting him. The fate of the world hangs on balance, too.

To conclude, Hinata doesn’t do enough to back up the claims of her character. Being timid does not equate to kindness and nurturing, people. She fits the archetype, so you would think she’s really sweet, but at the worst she comes off as an entirely shallow character. The character has no real interactions outside of her love interest—no goals, no thoughts, beyond him. I haven’t seen her helping anyone aside from him. Maybe that’s why her fans are largely NaruHina fans, because that is the only developed part of her.

I encourage people to show me manga evidence, not what you perceive of the character. For instance: "Her relationship with Kiba is a close one because she is his teammate and Hinata and Kiba have personalities that would mesh together" is character perception and speculation. Close with Kiba? How so? In these various panels, where she is shown having a conversation of a personal nature with him? That is my big issue. Who is Hinata, just from what the manga tells us, and how it is so many people praise her? I’m not sure anymore what this character should be outside of “Shy love interest of Naruto…Who is a Hyuuga.” I don't feel like I hate this character, so if this was taken as bashing I apologize, but it is probably the most confusing aspect of the Naruto fandom for me.

The issue isn’t even that she’s stereotypical, or fanboy/girl fodder. Her lack of character interactions, motivations, and character outside of Naruto are barely touched on. I don’t see many people complaining about her lack of compassion toward her family. Why hasn’t this character, if she is supposed to be so nice and able to see the true character within people (Naruto), does she create no goals or strive toward fixing the issue with her family? Her first real introduction was during the fight against Neji, and one of the conflicts of the story came up. Her sister, her cousin, her father… They really haven’t been touched on.

I mentioned show and tell earlier. In the case of Ginny, she was a big “tell-not-show” character. Characters and the author would speak of her talents, she’d get away with bad behaviour, and her character took an unexplained, off-screen 360. I don’t think Kishimoto has really done this, as Hinata hasn’t deviated much or done much for her character. Rather, it seems that this large fanbase, from fanboys to just people who casually like her, give her that Ginny status. Heck, the anime does it most notoriously. She’s sweet, sensitive, observational, friend to all people, and a role model for shy people who want to grow out and fulfill their potential. The way people perceive her character, and the fact that so many people do to the point that “poor Hinata” is instantly defended if someone brings up criticism. If it was all about sex appeal, then why are so many females so pro-Hinata but so anti-Sakura? Plus, that would mean characters like Mei, Tsunade, Temari, women who have more of that obvious sex appeal, would be given Hinata-like status.

I know she is shy and thus appeals to shy people or those who think shy girls are so moe, but that doesn’t explain the huge amounts of love she gets. I don’t know that many shy-girl types that have done as minimum as she did, and then get proclaimed to be better than most female characters in popular fandoms. She’s a fan-favourite, and a lot of people describe her character favourably… But I haven’t seen any evidence in-manga. I don’t think Kishimoto has even really exploited her moe-like status that much."

-Broken_Figurine

He basically said what everyone here told over and over again, Hinata is centered on Naruto and only and that's why it makes her selfish and a poor developed character, you dont see a single Hinata fan who's not a NaruHina shipper.

[Don-kun]

He basically said what everyone here told over and over again, Hinata is centered on Naruto and only and that's why it makes her selfish and a poor developed character, you dont see a single Hinata fan who's not a NaruHina shipper.

Lol, there are the NejiHina fans the SasuHina and the KibaHina fans, also I know Surei from NF who is a Hinata fans but prefers NS and Viomi who was another Hinata fan and become a NS fans on this same site but she had another user name here.

Anyway all the things what that user said are the same things I always wonder about Hinata, but if you mention them then you're a Hinata hater or another biased NS even if you're neutral about pairing, NejiH KibaH or SasuH fans they still call you but hurt NS fans and start insulting Sakura.

Edited by Don-kun, 04 April 2013 - 12:53 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Lol, there are the NejiHina fans the SasuHina and the KibaHina fans, also I know Surei from NF who is a Hinata fans but prefers NS and Viomi who was another Hinata fan and become a NS fans on this same site but she had another user name here.

Anyway all the things what that user said are the same things I always wonder about Hinata, but if you mention them then you're a Hinata hater or another biased NS even if you're neutral about pairing, NejiH KibaH or SasuH fans they still call you but hurt NS fans and start insulting Sakura.

I'm not a hinata hater i just dislike her i dont bash her it's different if i was a hater i would bash, about NejiHina fans i didnt met a single one, and about SasuH and even KibaH i always thought it was just to mock.

[FoolishYoungling]

I'm not a hinata hater i just dislike her i dont bash her it's different if i was a hater i would bash, about NejiHina fans i didnt met a single one, and about SasuH and even KibaH i always thought it was just to mock.

I'm a SasuHina fan. I didn't become one to mock Hinata. Where did you get that from?

[CloudMountainJuror]

I found this on DA, posted by UlquiorraKage5 and created by Broken_Figurine don't know if they are the same user.


First off, let me just say that I am very glad to have encountered someone here that is actually good at discussing things like this. You made the first decent argument that Hinata isn't shallow that I've encountered yet. That being said, there are some holes here and there. Now, I would reply myself, but there's a post that I saw a looong time ago that stated why Hinata is..as she is, better than I could ever try to imitate. Be warned, though: this is an EXTREMELY long post, but I feel that it explains everything wonderfully. It is about a year old; that being said, it still serves its purpose. If you don't want to read it all, I totally understand. Here goes:


"Common advice in storytelling is to show, not tell. You could argue that Kishimoto could be guilty of this in many aspects of is hit series Naruto, but in the case of his widely popular character Hinata Hyuuga; it isn't so much what he's telling—or what he's showing. In a peculiar twist, the character's traits and appeal are largely due to what the readers tell us, not by what the characters say or show in the original work. This is a minor character that shows up every now and again, so fans have relatively little to work off of, but surely a small part does not a small character make. In her, albeit, limited scenes, according to her fanbase she has proven herself kind, timid, relatable, hard-working and inspirational; even going so far as to say she would make a better heroine than the current leading lady. She is a role model for people who face social anxieties, and has the insight and pure-heartedness of her archetype to be the first who has cheered on our down-hearted male lead, even if it was from the shadows where her feelings couldn’t reach him. Indeed, it seems like every scene is devoted to showing how timid this young lady is, and how she wants to become a stronger person by the example the titular character has shown us.

While this is fine and noble, there is something, something that has bugged me since my foray into the Naruto fandom about the love and appreciation this character gets. As far as the scenes have gone, for over a span of about 500+ chapters, that last aspect of her character is the only aspect of her character. Naruto, the character, is the centre of her universe. Fans and Kishimoto seem to propagate this idea, with constant references to her potential to be his love interest, and going so far as to see him as her Sun (which, coincidently, is the centre of our universe—go figure) in reference to her very name and character theme. For me, more startling than her constant referrals to him every time she happens to shows up, more upsetting is her lack of connection to anyone else.

There needs to be something said about this character’s history, of what was given to us (the anime likes to give us more, but I could see it as a ‘fan’ too). While details have been seldom explored, exposition via flashbacks has told us that she’s the heiress to a prominent clan which has a bloodline limit. Alright, so this makes the character a bit special. She has something that in a world of ninja gives her advantage to kick butt (something she was born with in a series that promotes winning by hard work) and it makes her to be likened to the status of a princess. She has been put down by for father for not being strong enough, all but abandoned by him, who favoured his younger but stronger daughter. Again, this is another piece to be able to relate to her. Winning the affection of those close around us, who we admire and love, is a universal thing, and not living up to our parents’ expectations is too. From wanting acknowledgment from a crush to a father, it is clear that this is a wholly sympathetic character and it would be understandable as to why—

Wait? What was that? There is something a little strange about this clan of her’s. Ah, right. Her family is divided by branch and by the main family. She is from the privileged main branch that gets to call all the shots and live happy and free, whereas all others who are not from that branch are forced to wear seals on their forehead and live in forced servitude or else be tortured to death). Now, Hinata has a cousin whose father died directly as a result of this, and who understandably is not so happy toward her. What would a kind-hearted person do in a situation like this? How would they confront the issue that what their family is doing is morally wrong, and that people close to that person are suffering because of it? Prove themselves that they are not the mean insults that the victim throws at them, of course.
Rather than sympathizing with her cousin, the issue when it was brought up was treated as Hinata’s time to shine. She is showing how she is able to fight back against her “fate” and not be a loser. Neji is the bad guy here, as he says the underdogs are doomed to be underdogs—and that is particularly insulting to our underdog main character too. Hinata offers no apology or goal to change the state of their clan. She wants to prove herself to Naruto, who is watching her, although she is fighting her cousin who lost a father because of her.

She is, of course, young and it could be said that she does not have the inner strength to go against the conventions of her family, or to see past Neji’s harsh exterior to the pained soul within. Unless, of course, Neji’s name is Naruto because even as a small child she could go against peer-pressure and Naruto’s bad behavior to see he was lonely and in need of acknowledgement, like her. Perhaps she does really feel badly about what happened, but because she’s shy and all, she can’t really communicate or show it.

Here is where fan speculation comes in. Being timid is a common excuse for this character not doing something that we think good people should do. Why doesn’t she ever approach Naruto, who is in desperate need for a friend? She is too shy, and perhaps her family wouldn’t let her hang out with someone like Naruto because of what he is (a common belief that was played out by the anime). Yes, she is shy, but the manga never states that the reason why she did not approach him is because her family forbade her. Furthermore, while Hinata does think back to watching Naruto and believing in him, there was never a flashback where she had expressed the same attention to Neji or a branch member. You never see her, standing behind a door, looking at her cousin and wishing she could find the strength within herself to reach out and comfort him. She is never depicted standing around, feeling powerless to watch as her father or someone else in authority tortures her family members. As readers, we just assume this goes on but because she’s a minor character, it’s not shown. It is filed under The Many Things Hinata Does That Kishimoto Can’t Show Us but Totally Intends for Her Character.

If Kishimoto intended for her to be sympathetic towards her cousin or more unfortunate family members, then why does he continue to have her focus be solely on Naruto? Her lack of interactions with other characters is hardly ever brought up by the Naruto fandom. She is an older sister, but that seems completely irrelevant as her sister has not showed up since the Chuunin exams. Her interaction with Neji should have been a lot more emphasized, but it seems Hinata only acts as another addition to his more tragic character. Kurenai had apparently acted like a mother to her when her father rejected her, yet she has yet to show any sorrow for the woman who lost her lover and has a child.

If we define good and kindness by a character not doing anything bad, then I suppose Hinata fits that description. Even in recent chapters now, where a “lot” (at least in comparison) has happened for her character, the issues don’t seem to have settled. Her confession for Naruto and her sacrifice display how devoted and in love her character is. She talks about admiring him, about how he inspired her, and then she confesses and tries to defend him in his hour of need. What I honestly wish she would have done, at the risk of sounding like a NejiHina fan, is if this sacrificing scene could have been used for her cousin instead. If Neji was the one in danger and she, as the Hyuuga heiress, had stepped in to save him even though he was a branch member, and told him that she’s watched him and her family suffer that she was sorry for what he had gone through, but at least she could do this much for him. It would have brought the issue with Neji’s father full circle, added depth to her character and insight on how she views her family, as well as beefing up the scenes in the recent chapters where she stands back to back with him.

The recent chapters suggest growth, but perhaps I’m a bit cynical after all this time, but merely putting characters side by side and fighting does not give character development. Sure, it seems that during the years they have reached some understanding, yet once again this is not shown throughout the manga. It feels tacked on, and I’m not convinced that they really, truly care or understand each other like it’s supposed to feel. No matter—fans can and have already done the telling. Oh, and we can’t forget Naruto. After all, failure is not an option because this war is protecting him. The fate of the world hangs on balance, too.

To conclude, Hinata doesn’t do enough to back up the claims of her character. Being timid does not equate to kindness and nurturing, people. She fits the archetype, so you would think she’s really sweet, but at the worst she comes off as an entirely shallow character. The character has no real interactions outside of her love interest—no goals, no thoughts, beyond him. I haven’t seen her helping anyone aside from him. Maybe that’s why her fans are largely NaruHina fans, because that is the only developed part of her.

I encourage people to show me manga evidence, not what you perceive of the character. For instance: "Her relationship with Kiba is a close one because she is his teammate and Hinata and Kiba have personalities that would mesh together" is character perception and speculation. Close with Kiba? How so? In these various panels, where she is shown having a conversation of a personal nature with him? That is my big issue. Who is Hinata, just from what the manga tells us, and how it is so many people praise her? I’m not sure anymore what this character should be outside of “Shy love interest of Naruto…Who is a Hyuuga.” I don't feel like I hate this character, so if this was taken as bashing I apologize, but it is probably the most confusing aspect of the Naruto fandom for me.

The issue isn’t even that she’s stereotypical, or fanboy/girl fodder. Her lack of character interactions, motivations, and character outside of Naruto are barely touched on. I don’t see many people complaining about her lack of compassion toward her family. Why hasn’t this character, if she is supposed to be so nice and able to see the true character within people (Naruto), does she create no goals or strive toward fixing the issue with her family? Her first real introduction was during the fight against Neji, and one of the conflicts of the story came up. Her sister, her cousin, her father… They really haven’t been touched on.

I mentioned show and tell earlier. In the case of Ginny, she was a big “tell-not-show” character. Characters and the author would speak of her talents, she’d get away with bad behaviour, and her character took an unexplained, off-screen 360. I don’t think Kishimoto has really done this, as Hinata hasn’t deviated much or done much for her character. Rather, it seems that this large fanbase, from fanboys to just people who casually like her, give her that Ginny status. Heck, the anime does it most notoriously. She’s sweet, sensitive, observational, friend to all people, and a role model for shy people who want to grow out and fulfill their potential. The way people perceive her character, and the fact that so many people do to the point that “poor Hinata” is instantly defended if someone brings up criticism. If it was all about sex appeal, then why are so many females so pro-Hinata but so anti-Sakura? Plus, that would mean characters like Mei, Tsunade, Temari, women who have more of that obvious sex appeal, would be given Hinata-like status.

I know she is shy and thus appeals to shy people or those who think shy girls are so moe, but that doesn’t explain the huge amounts of love she gets. I don’t know that many shy-girl types that have done as minimum as she did, and then get proclaimed to be better than most female characters in popular fandoms. She’s a fan-favourite, and a lot of people describe her character favourably… But I haven’t seen any evidence in-manga. I don’t think Kishimoto has even really exploited her moe-like status that much."

-Broken_Figurine

UlquiorraKage5 is me!
Holy crap, where did you find that post? Like on what picture? I remember posting that, but I don't remember where/when...

And no, I am not Broken_Figurine. That long thing I quoted was from another old thread that was centered around discussing Hinata.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 04 April 2013 - 02:59 AM.

[Codus N]

This is a battle of a huge proportions: Are we the fans interpreting wrong or is Kishimoto displaying it wrong? Answer: Little bit of both. I would like to think I am trying to interpret this as honest as I can and the problem is I don't know what Kishi intends to do with Hinata. I don't know what he is really trying to convey. I know what he is trying to convey with Sakura because that is what he said he was doing. Never said anything on his intention of depicting Hinata.

@Awes and Codus
I want to ask you both this question of inquiry. Why is it that if I interpreting Hinata as this, I am wrong because I am interpreting it wrong. However, when Sakura is interpreted wrong and many fans misinterpret her on several occasions, it is Kishi's fault for not depicting it right? What if Kishi's at fault for me interpreting Hinata the way I see it or likewise what if it is the fans fault for interpreting Sakura wrong?

Where is the legitimate argument and where does bias play in? I can say that if no matter what Kishi does you can't see a character any other way, then it is bias. If people say that Hinata is perfect and don't even admit that she makes mistakes even when Hinata herself says she does.....you're biased. Same thing for Sakura.

I love Sakura, but I know what mistakes she has done and I also know what good she has done.

To close out, let me ask this. What is worse? An idea based on several moments and incidents in the entire manga or saying a pairing is canon based on one scene that is ambiguous? Ch. 615 means NH is canon? I find that to be a bigger misinterpretation than my own view of Hinata. At least mine has merits and thought process.

My answer to you is the one I bolded above.

My problem with our side of the claim is that what Kishi's said must be taken as absolute fact. I don't mind that. But the real problem I have is the fact that Kishi hasn't backed up his claims as well as he could have. Accepting his words as fact is one thing, but if we want to accept those words, Kishi needs to show he can back up those claims.

615-617 is iffy at best. I accept it as a possibility that NH will be developed from there on thus, becoming canon. Unlike some people here who keep trying to downplay the moment and its possibilities onwards. It's just as bad as facing NH fans who believe their pairing is canon no matter what.

But now the million-dollar question is: will Kishi actually develop NH from Naruto's side?? we'll see.

[Saku-chan]

He basically said what everyone here told over and over again, Hinata is centered on Naruto and only and that's why it makes her selfish and a poor developed character, you dont see a single Hinata fan who's not a NaruHina shipper.

I'm a fan. I won't make her character out to be more than what's shown though.

[Jenskott]

I'm sorry, but if the author says she was honest, you have to accept it. I don't care how the scene was written. Kishi said she was honest: End of story. There should be no more discussion. I understand that the scene might be interpreted differently, but there is no take back's in manga. Once you print it, it is done. Sadly, you can't see what kind of reactions you get until you publish it. He thought he did it right. He did it the way he wanted. However, the message he tried to convey was not the message the readers got....at least not the NH fans. I am sure Kishi would have written it differently if he got another chance to depict it.

I completely and utterly agree.

The author's word is FINAL in this matter. If he says she was honest, she was honest. PERIOD.

You can argue maybe he should have done it clearer (or at least clearer to you), but that is -I'm sorry telling it- irrelevant.

If you don't agree the creator's word and intent is all what matters in this matter, you also could keep arguing Tobi is not Obito.

Now, the "Who is more to blame: the creator for not making it clearer or the readers for not seeing it?" debate is more complex. It is certainly possible he could have made the matter clearer... but it also is true that fanboys/girls -specially shippers- often only see what they want seeing.

And, honestly... Chapters 614 and 615 have no bearing on Sakura being honest or dishonest in chapter 469. Hinata finally making some sort of move has absolutely no bearing on Sakura's confession, neither it means that confession was insincere. A scene does not contradict the other since both girls can have chosen act on their feelings once and for all. But I am NOT getting in that.

Sadly, sometimes people confuse criticism with bashing. So, it becomes hard when I want to criticize Hinata's character and I am put in the "basher" territory meanwhile when people bash Sakura I am supposed to keep quiet.

I assume that you know that when I was talking about hating and bashing characters I was not talking about you. I merely was making clear my opinion on Hinata was not based on hatred towards a fictional character and I was not bashing her. I was not addressing to anyone specifically.

[Don-kun]

UlquiorraKage5 is me!
Holy crap, where did you find that post? Like on what picture? I remember posting that, but I don't remember where/when...

And no, I am not Broken_Figurine. That long thing I quoted was from another old thread that was centered around discussing Hinata.

On DA after 615 the guy posted
The Biggest F Y NS fans
P.S: No offense intended to NH fans or NS fans.

So I guess the Naruto passion is still in you but for some reason you don't want to displayed here am I right?

Edited by Don-kun, 04 April 2013 - 01:15 PM.

[Branden]

IMO :

Hinata is a character who's purpose is to use her crush on Naruto to push the plot forward and act as a red herring for NaruSaku.