232 replies to this topic

[merryGOflava]

GUYS i feel bad for minato looks like after the talk they are going too battle as well and he will see Obito in hes stated mind poor minato.

hmm that would suck :T if he does get to go and battle.

[James S Cassidy]

No, I can complain about it now. I don't care to hear the story of the First vs Madara again. This is the problem that I have with Kishimoto. He creates all of these characters and gives them all these detailed back-stories. Even if he's already touched base on what happened in their past, he still feels the need to delve into every single detail later on. All this does is prolong the time we have to wait to get back to the actual plot. Like Kabuto's background, for example. I could have gone without that.

I just don't find things like this interesting unless it ties into the plot of the story, like Obito's flashbacks. I'm not saying that other people won't enjoy it or shouldn't enjoy it. Y'all are free to love it as much as you want, but I'm free to voice my complaints about it as well. I'm more interested in what's happening with Naruto and the Alliance, not Sasuke and the battle between the First and Madara, which we've already heard about a number of times but now have to hear about it some more but in greater detail.

How do you know this flashback wouldn't have something like that?

Wait till we actually see the flashback, then we can judge it as it is. We could always show another Uchiha massacre flashback if you wish.

We have actually never seen this battle happen at all through out the manga. This I have to disagree with you with, Slex. All we hear as that it took place, but never showed what happened. What happened to Madara after that? What was the back story of Madara? What is his motives?

Better than watching Hinata comment on Naruto's big warm hand. Yes, I am going to constantly bring this up.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 February 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[Codus N]

How do you know this flashback wouldn't have something like that?

Wait till we actually see the flashback, then we can judge it as it is.

^This.

[Chatte]

The people have been screaming Madara vs Hashirama fight for a long time ago. Kishi's finally giving that.

[Slextrem]

@Slex: You should remember that legends are often far from the truth. We saw that with Hashirama's personality .

Who's to say that there isn't going to be any interesting revelations?? That's why we need the full story of their battle. I ask you this, so you're saying you were satisfied with that single double page spread of the Hashi vs Madara battle from 200 chapters back??

Another thing, Kishi is currently doing the world-building of the entire Shinobi system that he should've done a long time ago. So you're saying you don't care about that either?? every good story should have proper world-building. While it is late in the game, it's better than never.

1. I'm not saying that there won't be interesting revelations. I'm just not really looking forward to a big bundle of flashbacks for an event that we've already heard about. I know that legends get distorted, but we already know what the outcome was. That's all I care to know about it. Like I said, I'm more interested in seeing what the hero of the series is doing, not delving into the past (again) to look at things in detail.

2. Yes, I was more than satisfied with that single double page spread of Hashi vs Madara. I don't need any more than that because I know what the outcome of the battle was. I don't care about what happened in between because those details don't affect what's happening in the present time.

3. Not particularly, no. I feel that he's done more than enough work on the world-building. Like I said, that's one of my issues with him - he goes into too much detail. NaruSaku4Life3g said it perfectly in the second podcast: Kishimoto would stop to explain how a rock became overturned if he could. While it's great to give the audience a better understanding of how the fictional world works, minute details like that are unnecessary.

We have a basic understanding of how this world came to be, but more importantly, we know how the system works. Since we're following a story that takes place after the founding of the system, knowing how it works and how that affects the characters in the present time is more important that learning in detail how it was founded. At least, that's how I see it. I know there are other people that have a completely different opinion on this than I do. That's fine too.

Personally, I would rather see the plot advance. I'm in it more for the story of Naruto than I am for the story of the Shinobi World. It's a matter of personal interest.

Edited by Slextrem, 13 February 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Phew, finish cleaning up and now, I can express my thoughts on the latest chapter.

This is getting interesting and of course, Hashirama is the next one to speak and this does confirm that we are most likely going to kill a volume of Sasuke, which I don't mind after slowing down the pace from the war, though we are finally getting to the good part. Anyway, focusing on the current event, I find it interesting that Sasuke asked Orochimaru on why he did attack Konoha in the first place. It feels like perhaps he got the answer from this as well, so it would seem knowing the truth could reverse things as in knowing truth equal forgiven.

Hashirama is no shinobi to mess with and I really like that even though he is goofy, he's seriously one guy not to mess with. I laughed at Suigetsu's immediate shock as he thought the world is going to end. For some reason, now that they know they're at war and Madara is alive, I get the feeling their time to show could be after Obito is out of the picture. Even though Minato still didn't say anything yet, remember, he doesn't know who was that person but believed to be Madara or so he wants to think. My point is if we have to guess their time of arrival, it will be after Obito is dead or out of the picture. As I predicted many times, Madara will live longer than Obito in the current battle. Also, when you really recap everything, Obito really has more connection to Naruto's side of the story than Sasuke as his connections with Obito was just being a vessel and/or being manipulated. Obito had more interaction with Naruto in terms of normal situation, rather than Sasuke being everything about Madara and power.

Simply put, Sasuke's problem is with Madara. It's making more sense on how Obito took over the whole battle in the recent battle, because this is Naruto's battle. Once Obito is out, Madara will be left standing. That's when Sasuke shows up along with others. Now here's a thing. I do believe in two things:

1) Madara is left standing and continues the battle until a surprise entry shows up: Sasuke. Remember the interview with Naruto and Sasuke got to see each other again in the war at some point. That will be it. Do I think they will fight? No, not yet. I believe Naruto will be exhausted, and if I was the creator, I would make sure both Naruto and Sasuke are 100%. Besides, I do think Sasuke is due for one final power up, or he won't touch Naruto at all.

2) Madara does retreat as perhaps the beast fled or something and so, the alliance will take a breather. Somewhere in the field, Madara and Sasuke meet up. Naruto won't be in present however.

One thing for sure is that the alliance will need a break from that day as everyone will be exhausted from the current battle. As for Sasuke, this is what I think. He may go in between in terms of deciding. He may want to destroy Konoha still, but he might tell them that he's holding off until he can kill one man (Naruto) which may ring Minato. That said he might go after Madara as well to settle the score with him. So again, I do find myself seeing that Sasuke will be now in charge instead of a follower. That will make him the final villain or at least a villain. He's not all bad, but he's against the system of peace.

Overall, this is an interesting chapter and the history is now going to unfold. I look forward to next week for sure.

[James S Cassidy]

1. I'm not saying that there won't be interesting revelations. I'm just not really looking forward to a big bundle of flashbacks for an event that we've already heard about. I know that legends get distorted, but we already know what the outcome was. That's all I care to know about it. Like I said, I'm more interested in seeing what the hero of the series is doing, not delving into the past (again) to look at things in detail.

2. Yes, I was more than satisfied with that single double page spread of Hashi vs Madara. I don't need any more than that because I know what the outcome of the battle was. I don't care about what happened in between because those details don't affect what's happening in the present time.

Hmmm....okay I see your point, but couldn't this be also said about a bunch of other interesting things that have happened and people enjoyed?

"Why do we need to see what Itachi did during the massacre? We know he killed them all."

"Why do we need to need to know how Obito became Tobi? We already know he becomes the villain, so why do we need this?" And people liked this flashback. Even you did.

"Why do we need the flashback of Kushina and Minato? We already know they are dead."

I have seen the same arguments used on these flashbacks as well and people complain how pointless they were, yet look now? No one cares anymore.

Another I constantly see is that on this forum alone we have people who complain there is not enough info, but then complain when Kishi tries to explain it. What about the Uzumaki temple that people wanted an explanation for? Kishi shortly explained that and again people were not satisfied "This is crap. How much BS can Kishi write?"

If he explains it people think he is doing too much. If he doesn't explain it, people claim he is writing cop-out and asspulls. This man cannot win whatsoever.

Perhaps you are right about one thing, Slex. He does explain too many things...however, when a topic that does come along that really needs that explanation, people get bored already and want to move on. I don't think this flashback is one of those "explaining why the rock is there" as I could say the examples above are the same, yet we got some good new info out of them. This one I think is one of those times that a flashback is needed to explain exactly what happened during that time.

It's one of those things where there is so much crap that when something good does come along, people don't want it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 February 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[kirabook]

We haven't really heard their story in depth from what I remember. All I know is that Madara and Harashima were sorta friends, but they clashed at the valley of the end. Somehow, Madara walked away from that and ended up in some random cave with a strange tree something that was full of Harashima's DNA.

Maybe I need to look back, but I am interested on when Mito sealed the kyuubi. If she helped Harashima in battle, that could be relevant if it means Sakura will help Naruto fight in his battle against Sasuke.

I agree, I don't care what this story will mean to Sasuke, but I find Harashima and Madara (and Kurama) more interesting than Sasuke, so I don't mind. It's not another sob story like Kabuto's, which is another reason why I'm ok with it.

[Lid]

I have to agree with Slextrem on this chapter. I'm not a fan of the idea of going into another flashback. I'm not one to despise flashbacks, I thought the flashbacks of what happened with Minato and Kushina was one of the best parts of Naruto. However, with all of the ones that have been occurring over this war, this whole arc has seemed to be stretched out and I'm getting a bit exhausted.

Edited by The Notorious L.I.D., 13 February 2013 - 06:42 PM.

[StriderC]

What I find interesting is how young the hokages are, and that there's only one old one really. Seems Hashi died in his thirties or early 40's, and his brother probably the same.

Anyway, the more interesting flashbacks for me were Kushina's and Obito's. I was glad Obito's wasn't too long. I'm HOPING this one lasts for about 3 chapters but I see it lasting for more than that. I still can't believe she showcased that spread last month... Such a tease. lol

[Slextrem]

Hmmm....okay I see your point, but couldn't this be also said about a bunch of other interesting things that have happened and people enjoyed?

"Why do we need to see what Itachi did during the massacre? We know he killed them all."

"Why do we need to need to know how Obito became Tobi? We already know he becomes the villain, so why do we need this?" And people liked this flashback. Even you did.

"Why do we need the flashback of Kushina and Minato? We already know they are dead."

I have seen the same arguments used on these flashbacks as well and people complain how pointless they were, yet look now? No one cares anymore.

Another I constantly see is that on this forum alone we have people who complain there is not enough info, but then complain when Kishi tries to explain it. What about the Uzumaki temple that people wanted an explanation for? Kishi shortly explained that and again people were not satisfied "This is crap. How much BS can Kishi"

If he explains it people think he is doing too much. If he doesn't explain it, people claim he is writing cop-out and asspulls. This man cannot win whatsoever.

Perhaps you are right about one thing, Slex. He does explain too many things...however, when a topic that does come along that really needs that explanation, people get bored already and want to move on. I don't think this flashback is one of those "explaining why the rock is there" as I could say the examples above are the same, yet we got some good new info out of them. This one I think is one of those times that a flashback is needed to explain exactly what happened during that time.

It's one of those things where there is so much crap that when something good does come along, people don't want it.

Like I said at the end of my post, it's a matter of personal interest.

I'm on the side that thinks Kishimoto shouldn't have to explain every little thing to progress the story. So there was an Uzumaki shrine at the front of the village? Cool. I don't need to know how or why it was built. Just knowing that it's there is good enough for me.

I could have gone without a lot of the details he decided to go back and touch base on, like Itachi's perspective of the Uchiha massacre. I personally didn't care to see that because Sasuke's story doesn't interest me in the slightest. It's something that we've heard about repeatedly. Seeing it from the perspective of another character without learning anything new about the event itself did nothing for me. Basically, all we saw was that it affected Itachi more than Kishimoto original let on. Cool. We knew that already. Time to leave it alone and carry on.

That being said, there are some events that I feel Kishimoto was right in explaining in greater detail, like what happened when Konoha was attacked by the Kyuubi. That event had a huge impact on the main character which is why I enjoyed seeing Kushina's flashback. The same thing can be said about Obito's past. He's the one that caused all of this in the first place. His past was something new for us to learn about and relevant to what's going on in the present. Plus, it didn't take too long to get through his flashbacks. Three weeks and we were ready to move on. That's how I like it.

This battle I don't see as relevant to what's happening now. The only reason why we're even learning about it is to calm Sasuke down, which again, I really don't care about whether or not he's going to learn to play nice at the end of this. There might be some interesting information that comes from these flashbacks. I get that. But it's not something that I couldn't live without knowing. Maybe we'll learn how Madara escaped and found the magical tree of life. Cool, but again, I could live without knowing those details. I don't need to see how Hashi/Mito sealed the Kyuubi, or what attack he used to beat Madara. That's irrelevant information to me.

I'm also fairly irritated about this because it's just extending the amount of time that we have to wait to get back to the Alliance fight, which is the battle that I'm much more interested in seeing. Fight scenes are alright, but if they don't progress the plot at all, I tend to get bored with them. While it may be a very exciting turn of events for you and other users on this forum, it's going to be a very dull X amount of weeks for me simply because I have no interest in what's going on. Kishimoto could have easily wrapped this up with a discussion. I would have preferred that over a flashback. At least then I would still get to see the First interacting with the Second, which so far has been the highlight of this mini-arc.

Edited by Slextrem, 13 February 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[StriderC]

Like I said at the end of my post, it's a matter of personal interest.

I'm on the side that thinks Kishimoto shouldn't have to explain every little thing to progress the story. So there was an Uzumaki shrine at the front of the village? Cool. I don't need to know how or why it was built. Just knowing that it's there is good enough for me.

I could have gone without a lot of the details he decided to go back and touch base on, like Itachi's perspective of the Uchiha massacre. I personally didn't care to see that because Sasuke's story doesn't interest me in the slightest. It's something that we've heard about repeatedly. Seeing it from the perspective of another character without learning anything new about the event itself did nothing for me. Basically, all we saw was that it affected Itachi more than Kishimoto original let on. Cool. We knew that already. Time to leave it alone and carry on.

That being said, there are some events that I feel Kishimoto was right in explaining in greater detail, like what happened when Konoha was attacked by the Kyuubi. That event had a huge impact on the main character which is why I enjoyed seeing Kushina's flashback. The same thing can be said about Obito's past. He's the one that caused all of this in the first place. His past was something new for us to learn about and relevant to what's going on in the present. Plus, it didn't take too long to get through his flashbacks. Three weeks and we were ready to move on. That's how I like it.

This battle I don't see as relevant to what's happening now. The only reason why we're even learning about it is to calm Sasuke down, which again, I really don't care about whether or not he's going to learn to play nice at the end of this. There might be some interesting information that comes from these flashbacks. I get that. But it's not something that I couldn't live without knowing. Maybe we'll learn how Madara escaped and found the magical tree of life. Cool, but again, I could live without knowing those details. I don't need to see how Hashi/Mito sealed the Kyuubi, or what attack he used to beat Madara. That's irrelevant information to me.

I'm also fairly irritated about this because it's just extending the amount of time that we have to wait to get back to the Alliance fight, which is the battle that I'm much more interested in seeing. Fight scenes are alright, but if they don't progress the plot at all, I tend to get bored with them. While it may be a very exciting turn of events for you and other users on this forum, it's going to be a very dull X amount of weeks for me simply because I have no interest in what's going on. Kishimoto could have easily wrapped this up with a discussion. I would have preferred that over a flashback. At least then I would still get to see the First interacting with the Second, which so far has been the highlight of this mini-arc.

Well said. I have a feeling this flashback is gonna last around 2 months now. LOL I also hope Kishi doesn't show anything involving Madara as far as him finding that tree because it wouldn't make sense. How would anyone besides Madara and Obito even know why he lived so long?

[Slextrem]

Well said. I have a feeling this flashback is gonna last around 2 months now. LOL I also hope Kishi doesn't show anything involving Madara as far as him finding that tree because it wouldn't make sense. How would anyone besides Madara and Obito even know why he lived so long?

Good point. I guess that means we should look forward to another flashback of the exact same event, but from Madara's perspective, later on in the series.

Edit: It better not last two months. It'll be like Danzo vs Sasuke all over again.

Edited by Slextrem, 13 February 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[T XD]

At max, the flashback will last for five chapters. I just hope for the next chapter to not show me that it's going to be more

[Slextrem]

At max, the flashback will last for five chapters. I just hope for the next chapter to not show me that it's going to be more

That's still a month and a week. Plus whatever needs to be said after the flashback.

[T XD]

That's still a month and a week. Plus whatever needs to be said after the flashback.

After the flashback, maybe Minato will talk for a chapter or two. Then we'll get back to Naruto and co. battle against Madara and Obito XD

[StriderC]

Good point. I guess that means we should look forward to another flashback of the exact same event, but from Madara's perspective, later on in the series.

Edit: It better not last two months. It'll be like Danzo vs Sasuke all over again.

At least we don't have to deal with Sasuke I guess but once again, it's all about the Uchiha and the sharingan. I just wish it would die.

Well, Hashi said it was gonna be a long one... I'm hoping it doesn't last more than 5 weeks but I wouldn't put it past Kishi to go that far. I think slowly but surely, some people here will start to get frustrated and as you've said, we'd then have to see his response or he could just put that off as well and go back to the alliance. I'd like the latter.

[六道仙人]

OT

I'm VERY VERY tirend and even upset about those ridicolous NH fanarts that Mangasteam put each week... The one of this week is very annoying.

[Slextrem]

After the flashback, maybe Minato will talk for a chapter or two. Then we'll get back to Naruto and co. battle against Madara and Obito XD

So, all in all, this mini-arc could very well end up lasting two months. That's depressing. LOL. I was telling myself that Kishimoto was just going to have a discussion between the characters for like three chapters and then we'd get to carry on. I should have known better.

OT

I'm VERY VERY tirend and even upset about those ridicolous NH fanarts that Mangasteam put each week... The one of this week is very annoying.

Word of advice: Stop reading from there. ;)

Edited by Slextrem, 13 February 2013 - 07:47 PM.

[StriderC]

OT

I'm VERY VERY tirend and even upset about those ridicolous NH fanarts that Mangasteam put each week... The one of this week is very annoying.

I haven't even read the MS version. What FA do they have for NS anyway?