255 replies to this topic

[redragon88]

I know many are saying that the reason Obito is doing all of this is because Rin died. I'm not denying her death took part in his descent to darkness but I think we're misinterpreting what he said.

As the title of the chapter itself says, Kakashi seemed to have asked Obito not why he's doing this, instead he's asking why he never returned to Konoha. When Obito says that it's because he let Rin died he's giving it as a reason as to why he never came into contact with anyone of Konoha ever again up until now that he was forced to reveal his identity.

It seemed that after Rin died Obito felt he didn't have a place in Konoha. He always worked hard to be strong enough in order to protect Rin, but after she died he was left without any purpose or goals. To Obito a Konoha without Rin wasn't a home to him at all, it seems.

[kirabook]

Home is where your heart is?

[Transformers03]

Come on people, you're rarely ever going to find a villain that's bad JUST to be bad these days. There's always a reason, no matter how miniscule others may think it is. (whether they're truly insane and ahve no idea what they're doing, they lost a loved one or ones, they were treated badly as a child or even as an adult, they delved too deeply into things and lost their empathy, etc etc)

It's also silly to complain about the predictability of how the story is moving. What, did you expect some random event that we were never clued in on before to make Obito who he is today? Rin was hinted at so hard last week, even a blind person could see it. And now, due to the end of this chapter, we can assume Madara had something to do with Obito being a live (and 'evil') since he knows his name.

I'd rather something be hinted at time and time again and then fulfilled later on rather than having something completely and utterly random happen. No to bring pairings into this, but that is a reason why I support NS, because it's the one pairing that had way to many hints and built up not to happen if we look at other things that became true. (Minato being Naruto's father, Tobi = Obito)

I concur 100%.

Okay, after reading all the responses, time to write mine.

First of all, I should have warn everybody that don't get too high hope for chapter 600 because most likely we weren't going to get the full explanation of Tobi/Obito, but now, we can say Rin is the most impact one to Obito to turn evil. I wouldn't say the she is the main reason yet, but I do believe there is more to him. I like the chapter for great display of emotions from Kakashi and how the situation is really becoming too hectic for Naruto because now, he's losing Kakashi since he's really losing it. I can't blame him because it really does sound like he's the cause of the war, but I wouldn't blame him. I would blame life because that's just the way it is. It makes sense for Obito to escape reality and build the ultimate illusion. I can't wait for full explanation. Of course, the icing the cake is the last double page. All I cay say is "Oh $^*!!"

I do believe that Naruto will hear Kakashi's story soon, just not now. Most likely, Kakashi will tell him that Obito is the same as Naruto: Work hard, rivalry with Kakashi, wanted to be the next Hokage, and tried to win Rin's heart. Naruto heard the reason, so it's only fitting for him to understand more later on. This is Naruto's fight.

It's interesting to note that each arc Naruto understands more. Let's go back to Pain arc. This arc had many developments for him. One is the understanding of revenge, which relates to Sasuke. Remember in the beginning, he almost talk like Sasuke, which stirred Sakura in that one panel. Thankfully, he wasn't on vengeance, though he admits that he wants to kill Nagato so bad, which is truly understandable. The other development is to understanding the system of the ninja, which is told to be corrupted. Now, he is on the mission to fix it with his own hands, which everyone else is doing it with power and anger.

Kage Summit arc is Naruto's development to understand what it takes to bring back Team 7 and pretty much set up to fight Sasuke one last time to bring him back. Even if the world is against his idea, he will do it with his own hands. Now, if Naruto learns Obito's background, this will be the development for him to understand what will happen if he lose Sakura. Love is being played in this situation for Obito and it's given that Naruto will learn something from this. In fact, he will learn that he is the opposite of him. I can see why now Naruto constantly repeating, "I will become a Hokage." It just shows you the opposite of Obito, which he gave up on it. Love will be another one as Naruto may say something like, "It will take me days, months, or years, but no matter what, I will not give up." That and understanding the meaning of love. I can see Naruto getting more mature as he come across people who had difficult time.

Also, it seems like that Itachi's quote about Minato having Kushina and people support him largely being play in here. Sakura can be in Kushina's role, which makes perfect sense, especially her traits is similar to Rin (medic, Naruto's love interest). I can see Naruto looking worry for Sakura, which will trigger Obito that she is his love interest, not to mention it looks like Naruto will take a beating here, so Sakura will heal him.

The possibility is huge and already I can't wait for more.

Well said.

So...let me get this straight....So Obito has become Anakin Skywalker?

Anakin (Obito) wanted to protect his love, Padme (Rin), from death all because of a dream. So he wanted more power to protect them. Unfortunately, while he thought power was for good, power eventually leads to bad. Emperor Palpatine (Madara) ends up manipulating Anakin (Obito) into believing that the dark side is better because you gain power and thus you can save your loved ones. Anakin (Obito) accidentally kills Padme (Rin) and goes darker into madness. Obi-Wan (Kakashi) shows up and Anakin(Obito) blames him for Padme (Rin) betraying him. Obi-Wan (kakashi) tries to stop him, but ends up having to kill Anakin (Obito) or leave him for dead.

Kakashi: "You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the hatred, not join them! Bring balance to the Shinobi way, not leave it in darkness!"
Obito: I HATE YOU!!!
Kakashi: You were my brother, Obito; I loved you.

Actually, that would be pretty cool in my opinion.

Of all the times that Tobi has said stuff throughout this entire manga I kept getting told that "Tobi was the master at manipulation and you can't trust anything he says," but all of a sudden now all you people believe him? Come on, Tobi has the ultimate crunch on Kakashi. Tobi is Obito who says that this all happened because Rin died. Who says he is not manipulating him now? He is even having Kakashi have guilt and second thoughts. This is better than the Edo Tensei battles.

No, like I said, there is more to it. Until we read the whole story I am not willing to give up hope and give in to disappointment.

We could even have that Rin dying is not JUST the only reason, but only the beginning to his madness. Like Sasuke with Orochimaru, maybe Madara offered him a way out of his sad existence and begun manipulating him into believing in a better world. There could be many reasons on why he has gone mad. So, again I am going to wait.

We all know Madara has a hand in this because he seems to be good friends with Obito.

I also say that people are right when they say that Obito is not really that evil. His idea was that he wanted peace for the entire world. That doesn't sound so evil does it? No, but the way he wanted to achieve it was the evil part. Kill the few to save the many and take away freewill. Again, people say it's shallow, but it is true none the less and the motivation hasn't changed since. It just got more complicated because well society decided to fight back. It's kind of that Lawful evil. "I love the world so much, I want to kill them all to save them all"

Ironic that Obito actually managed to achieve peace among the world simply by becoming this huge villain against it all. I wonder if he realizes that? Hmmm. Anyway, I think someone got their wish because I believe Madara gave Obito the idea of the Eye of the Moon plan and let him do all the dirty work so he can betray him in the end. So the only true villain here is Madara who really either wants to destroy the world or control it and become god.

Anyone else foresee a Obito vs Madara fight? I do.



Dude, It takes more than one chapter to explain an entire lifetime and no one ever said it would be explained in one chapter. Hell, Kabuto's life took up three chapters and revealed that not everything is as what it seemed. It was even shown that he lied about a few things and that Orochimaru didn't free him from Sasori, but he was a double agent the whole time...he is a very good double agent.

Ha, the Star Wars thing was funny. I also agree with mostly everything else you said, though I'm only taking it as a possible theory for now.

[alexander]

I know many are saying that the reason Obito is doing all of this is because Rin died. I'm not denying her death took part in his descent to darkness but I think we're misinterpreting what he said.

As the title of the chapter itself says, Kakashi seemed to have asked Obito not why he's doing this, instead he's asking why he never returned to Konoha. When Obito says that it's because he let Rin died he's giving it as a reason as to why he never came into contact with anyone of Konoha ever again up until now that he was forced to reveal his identity.

It seemed that after Rin died Obito felt he didn't have a place in Konoha. He always worked hard to be strong enough in order to protect Rin, but after she died he was left without any purpose or goals. To Obito a Konoha without Rin wasn't a home to him at all, it seems.

You are actually making a really good point, Kakashi wasn't asking why he is doing all of this, he was asking Obito why he never came back. But then I wonder, what about his parents then? I wonder if he had any.

[T XD]

You are actually making a really good point, Kakashi wasn't asking why he is doing all of this, he was asking Obito why he never came back. But then I wonder, what about his parents then? I wonder if he had any.

kakashi did wonder why he was doing all of this. if you remember after telling kakashi that he did survive however, the two after that kept silent in three panels, which tobi understanded kakashi's silence and said it was because you let rin die, that why he was doing all of this. it's, i think, when rin died he got mad and wanted what he wants from the world.

I know many are saying that the reason Obito is doing all of this is because Rin died. I'm not denying her death took part in his descent to darkness but I think we're misinterpreting what he said.

As the title of the chapter itself says, Kakashi seemed to have asked Obito not why he's doing this, instead he's asking why he never returned to Konoha. When Obito says that it's because he let Rin died he's giving it as a reason as to why he never came into contact with anyone of Konoha ever again up until now that he was forced to reveal his identity.

It seemed that after Rin died Obito felt he didn't have a place in Konoha. He always worked hard to be strong enough in order to protect Rin, but after she died he was left without any purpose or goals. To Obito a Konoha without Rin wasn't a home to him at all, it seems.

this was on his mind but don't forget that his mind was corrupted back then too and the death of rin increased the will of obito to do what he's doing and it's clear that when kakashi said " why until now" meant why he showed up now as when naruto broke his mask, obito is revealed at this point so if kakashi would want to mean why he never returned, obito would answer something from his opinions of the world or kakashi would say " why didn't you........ " and i'm sure why he didn't return to konoha, obito will voice his answer in the future and i think it will be a whole chapter cause it's something like sasuke's as someone manipulated him and was controlling him or it could be that someone is still controlling him, as wanting him to believe in something for his own advantage, and i say that if he was saved by someone from under the rock.
we have to wait a little bit more to know of obito what he got in mind.

Edited by T XD, 05 September 2012 - 05:15 PM.

[ninja_salamander]

Are u kittening kidding me kishi.. Tobi is doing all this just because of Rin. U have lost ur mind I think!!!!

The only part I liked about the story was the last page and I hope now Naruto shows what he have got to Uchiha Madara! And I hope he prove him tat jinchurikis are far more powerful then perfect susanoo but considering the stupid things kishi has started doing I wouldn't be surprised if I see Naruto begging for mercy from Madara now. Kishi has really made me sad by the revelations of obito and the reason why he is doing this!

I still hope I will consider Naruto my most favorite manga but if things continue like this their will definitely be a time when I will be scolding myself for reading such a manga!

Edited by ninja_salamander, 05 September 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[T XD]

Are u kittening kidding me kishi.. Tobi is doing all this just because of Rin. U have lost ur mind I think!!!!

The only part I liked about the story was the last page and I hope now Naruto shows what he have got to Uchiha Madara! And I hope he prove him tat jinchurikis are far more powerful then perfect susanoo but considering the stupid things kishi has started doing I wouldn't be surprised if I see Naruto begging for mercy from Madara now. Kishi has really made me sad by the revelations of obito and the reason why he is doing this!

I still hope I will consider Naruto my most favorite manga but if things continue like this their will definitely be a time when I will be scolding myself for reading such a manga!

you are talking like this too early , it's been one chapter since obito is revealed and obito didn't stop at rin's death, there's a whole lot more obito wants to talk about and giving reasons of why he's doing all of this while he's fighting, you have to wait a little bit more for the future chapters to tell us

[CloudMountainJuror]

would have been awesome, but that wasn't Naruto's fight. It was Sasuke and Itachi's.

But that easily could have been changed, mind you.

Kabuto was the type
"Some men just want to watch the world burn"
this makes him reach the level of epicness kitten you madara, obito, orochimaru,sasuke, kabuto is the best villain.

Ehhhh, not entirely. But he was close enough to be a far better villain than the others. He wasn't evil for the sake of being evil, but he didn't get an ass-pull "redemption" either. He was totally believable.

Look on the bright side, we always have Sasuke.....OH WAIT....we don't. Naruto has to save him and make him good again. Silly me. Sasuke doesn't even get a chance to be a villain because he is doomed to be a good guy.

Yup, sadly seems to be that way. I liked Sasuke way more as a psycho than as a "good guy", but it looks like his phase of total insanity is gone.

I did too. That would have been awesome to have a Sage on Sage fight. Like two Jedi's going at it...(damn me and my Star Wars referencing.)

Maybe we will get to do it in one of the games.

Exactly like two Jedis going at it, only possibly better. And it would be nice for that to be a little "what if" scenario in the games...but it would be bittersweet, too.

[catsi563]

See everyone blowing there stacks again. how quickly everyone forgets one of the tenants of Shinobi in this world.

Deception.

My theory is that eventually it will take a Senju and an Uchiha descendant to bring peace

Hmm intriguing.

Sasuke = Uchiha

Karin = Uzumaki/Senju?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Okay, after reading all the responses, time to write mine.

First of all, I should have warn everybody that don't get too high hope for chapter 600 because most likely we weren't going to get the full explanation of Tobi/Obito, but now, we can say Rin is the most impact one to Obito to turn evil. I wouldn't say the she is the main reason yet, but I do believe there is more to him. I like the chapter for great display of emotions from Kakashi and how the situation is really becoming too hectic for Naruto because now, he's losing Kakashi since he's really losing it. I can't blame him because it really does sound like he's the cause of the war, but I wouldn't blame him. I would blame life because that's just the way it is. It makes sense for Obito to escape reality and build the ultimate illusion. I can't wait for full explanation. Of course, the icing the cake is the last double page. All I cay say is "Oh $^*!!"

I do believe that Naruto will hear Kakashi's story soon, just not now. Most likely, Kakashi will tell him that Obito is the same as Naruto: Work hard, rivalry with Kakashi, wanted to be the next Hokage, and tried to win Rin's heart. Naruto heard the reason, so it's only fitting for him to understand more later on. This is Naruto's fight.

It's interesting to note that each arc Naruto understands more. Let's go back to Pain arc. This arc had many developments for him. One is the understanding of revenge, which relates to Sasuke. Remember in the beginning, he almost talk like Sasuke, which stirred Sakura in that one panel. Thankfully, he wasn't on vengeance, though he admits that he wants to kill Nagato so bad, which is truly understandable. The other development is to understanding the system of the ninja, which is told to be corrupted. Now, he is on the mission to fix it with his own hands, which everyone else is doing it with power and anger.

Kage Summit arc is Naruto's development to understand what it takes to bring back Team 7 and pretty much set up to fight Sasuke one last time to bring him back. Even if the world is against his idea, he will do it with his own hands. Now, if Naruto learns Obito's background, this will be the development for him to understand what will happen if he lose Sakura. Love is being played in this situation for Obito and it's given that Naruto will learn something from this. In fact, he will learn that he is the opposite of him. I can see why now Naruto constantly repeating, "I will become a Hokage." It just shows you the opposite of Obito, which he gave up on it. Love will be another one as Naruto may say something like, "It will take me days, months, or years, but no matter what, I will not give up." That and understanding the meaning of love. I can see Naruto getting more mature as he come across people who had difficult time.

Also, it seems like that Itachi's quote about Minato having Kushina and people support him largely being play in here. Sakura can be in Kushina's role, which makes perfect sense, especially her traits is similar to Rin (medic, Naruto's love interest). I can see Naruto looking worry for Sakura, which will trigger Obito that she is his love interest, not to mention it looks like Naruto will take a beating here, so Sakura will heal him.

The possibility is huge and already I can't wait for more.

Foreshadowing.

foda-se --Click here to view--

foda-se2 --Click here to view--

foreshadowing time!

Edited by dovahkiin, 05 September 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[kirabook]

Point totally not understood since you're probably using mangareader.

[merryGOflava]

i knew it.....rin tipped him over the edge XDD

what i wanna know is how he knew rin was dead, if he was "dead"

[T XD]

i knew it.....rin tipped him over the edge XDD

what i wanna know is how he knew rin was dead, if he was "dead"

he's not dead dead, he's either saved or was dead but then could bring back to life which that something kishi will tell us his ideas of how he's not dead.
i think he knew rin was dead by news, although i dunno why saying "news" makes me smile , or he could have sensed her death but witnessed her death will tell us that he was following kakashi and rin wherever they go to keep an eye on them. hmm this is interesting to think about it XD

[Transformers03]

I just wanted to add one more thing about this chapter before Ch. 600 comes out is that Kishi kind of gives us a better reason for Obito to be in love with Rin, than for Naruto to be in love with Sakura. Now, don't get me wrong, Obito's friendship with Rin is very similar to Naruto's friendship to Sakura (PARALLEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!), but it is the way it started. Rin was nice to Obito, evident by the way she gave him the ninja academy entrance papers, but Sakura wasn't nice to Naruto. Remember, Sakura hated Naruto (or at least, she think she did) and looked down on him like everyone else. Of what we've seen of Rin, she was never mean to Obito and she actually seemed supportive to him. Unless Kishi shows us a flashback that showed Sakura being nice to Naruto when they were little kids, Sakura didn't act like that to Naruto until later in the series. Mind you, it wasn't MUCH later in the series, as she was one of the first (if not, the first) of his classmates to support his dream of becoming Hokage, evident when she was willing to quit the chunin test so that she wouldn't have to see his dream crush (and people thought Sakura was TOTALLY selfish in Part 1, when I only thought of her as just being useless).

The reason of why I point that out, is because that's one of the reason why people are not only against Narusaku, but why they don't see it happening. They both didn't start out as friends, they BECAME friends. Now they act the way Obito and Rin acted to each other in this chapter. If there is anyone who actually read the chapter, despite their personally opinion of the chapter as whole, actually believe that Obito doesn't 'belong' to be Rin, and that she should be with Kakashi, then those people.................... Seriously, if you read this chapter (along with the Gaiden chapters), and you go like 'God, I hope Obito doesn't win Rin over', then I................don't know what you were reading. Of course they can never be together, because 1) Obito is now Tobi, so that means he's either evil or not entirely there, and 2) Rin is probably dead...PROBABLY. But my point still stands, you are suppose to like Obito the character, and you want to see him succeed. It is also because the fact that you like Obito that by the last page, when you realize that he is Tobi, it makes that more tragic. Is it also by coincidence that Obito and Rin's relationship is similar to that of Naruto and Sakura's. Kishi obviously based Obito on Naruto, and most likely or not, probably based Rin on Sakura (come on, see the panel where they're smiling at the bench. They look like them, ESPECIALLY Obito/Naruto). So, yet again, he probably based their relationship with that of Naruto and Sakura's. The same thing amplies to the fact that Obito's relationship with Kakashi is similar to how Naruto's relationship with Sasuke USE to be. Though that was explored more in Kakashi's Gaiden chapters, so I guess it wasn't worth bringing it up again. But then again the manga keeps reminded us of how 'strong' Naruto and Sasuke's bond is, that I'm actually surprised me that they didn't focus more on Obito's relationship with Kakashi. Oh, and Rin also had a crush on Kakashi like Sakura has a crush on Sasuke (PARALLEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

Okay, the fact is that we are suppose to like Obito for who he WAS, and the fact that he was almost exactly like Naruto, means that in what we want to see Obito succeed (become stronger, get the girl) are the same as in what we want to see Naruto succeed. If you didn't sympathized with Obito, or at least grasp the concept that we are suppose to sympathize with this character, then why do you read Naruto. Obito has similar goals to Naruto, he is pretty much an Uchilia version of him, so the fact you don't want to see him succeed also means that you wouldn't also want to see Naruto, the main character, to succeed. In fact, the only main difference (other than the fact he is an Uchilia) between them is that Obito seemed a LITTLE bit more focus on impressing the girl, while Naruto was trying to impress the whole village (Sakura is included in this). But like I said, we want to see both of them succeed in their goals, which includes the goal of getting the girl he likes who is also on his team. If there is anyone who honestly didn't at least sympathize, or understand that we are suppose to sympathize, with his one-sided crush, then..............I honestly don't know.

Before I end this, here's my list of reason of why I think Kishi decided to focus on Obito's one-sided love on Rin: 1) The fate of Rin will be one of factors of how he became Tobi, 2) Kishi may have felt that he didn't need to explore more with Obito and Kakashi's relationship, and decided to explore more with his relationship with Rin, 3) Lay down the seed where it starts showing that romance, particularly Naruto and Sakura's relationship (seeing how it was VERY similar to that of Obito and Rin's), may come into play again, or 4) There is no real reason, it is just how the the story came out. Either way, I win.

This is the last comment I had on the Ch. 599 thread. I'm reposting it because I posted it so late last night, that I doubt many of you actually read that thread again. That, and I want to continue the discussion on this thread.

[merryGOflava]

sooooooooo.........what happened to the kages?

[Branden]

This is the last comment I had on the Ch. 599 thread. I'm reposting it because I posted it so late last night, that I doubt many of you actually read that thread again. That, and I want to continue the discussion on this thread.

your right, im not going to read that again. if you want to highlight some key points then maybe ill read it

sooooooooo.........what happened to the kages?

[merryGOflava]

seriously? they could be dead!!!...........or seriously wounded!!!.....or dead!

[alexander]

seriously? they could be dead!!!...........or seriously wounded!!!.....or dead!

Yeah, they are pretty much...



But, seriously, no way to know, they could be defeated and are now laying on the ground, or Madara might have just felt an disturbance in the force and suddenly left. Either way, there is no chance that Kishimoto would kill the kages off screen.

[Gravenimage]

seriously? they could be dead!!!...........or seriously wounded!!!.....or dead!

Or maybe seriously dead wounded.

[Branden]

if they're dead, then wouldn't that also mean they are seriously wounded?