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If Sakura still loves Sasuke why is she not worthy of respect?


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#101 ciardha

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:54 PM

QUOTE (James S Cassidy @ Mar 20 2012, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am going to disagree with that statement. To deny she doesn't think about Sasuke is a blantent lie. Even Naruto knows she still thinks about him. The difference being is that he does not know that she doesn't think about him in a happy light. Nor does she think about him in a romantic light. I am sure she still thinks of the tragedy of losing a teammate which some forget this fact as well.


I was talking about at that moment, not later on. You see that as far back as in chapter 11 when Sakura throws herself on top of Naruto to protect him from the attack, doesn't even think of Sasuke until later, the written part of the Chunnin exams where she acts to protect Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage some day, how Sasuke might have reacted doesn't even occurs to her, and this is in part 1... It becomes even more pronounced in part 2, of course. Sasuke is an afterthought, if she thinks of him at all. Remember the aftermath of Naruto's battle with Kakazu when Sakura was healing him? Sakura doesn't have a thought of Sasuke, it's Naruto who brings him up- and Sakura doesn't look that happy to have Sasuke being brought up... And notice it's right after she reflects on that, that she does something very overt to show her interest to Naruto (and it's so overt that even Naruto picks up on it that time- chapter 343- the attempted suggestive ramen feeding...

Edited by ciardha, 21 March 2012 - 03:06 AM.

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#102 Dragunov

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:53 PM

Please people, no bashing each other. Let's keep this clean.

#103 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:02 PM

QUOTE (James S Cassidy @ Mar 20 2012, 08:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am going to disagree with that statement. To deny she doesn't think about Sasuke is a blantent lie. Even Naruto knows she still thinks about him. The difference being is that he does not know that she doesn't think about him in a happy light. Nor does she think about him in a romantic light. I am sure she still thinks of the tragedy of losing a teammate which some forget this fact as well.



Well, I am pretty sure you are not talking about me. lol I am just kidding.

I want to stay out of arguments myself and treat everyone with equality. Perhaps people got off on the wrong foot and things were said that shouldn't have been. Me and you, zacrathedemon, know this all too well. AmIrite?lol

It's best to just kiss and make-up. Even if you are right, you don't need to be jerks about it. I think both Ciardhra and Konoha'sCrimsonFox should make-up whatever happened here. If I may say you're both wrong and both right. And yeah, not all members here will go postal at the drop of a "Sasuke" or "Hinata." It's pretty tame here than say a general Naruto forums, but sometimes heated arguments occur.

Quite Frankly, I don't remember arguing or bashing someone in particular, or maybe the lack of comprehension can be misleading. It doesn't matter who gets bashed or not. Me and Ciardhra want the same thing (the end manga NS pairing). But believes and desires are different from facts. Believes are nothing but a fairy tale of someone's imagination. And facts are... basically something that has been finalized. I once believe that Sakura lost any romantic interest in Sasuke until kishi made it clear that Sakura's romantic feelings for Sasuke is not dead by a long shot, and it has made me look like a fool in the pairing war. When the previous week before that, I declared SS and NH DEAD!. And it proved I was wrong and way off, which I was b**** slapped in the face by hordes of NH shippers. That's why i'm not a believer anymore, and have less the fifty percent doubts that the manga will end NS. I'm tire of being on the losing side of the war, which has an immensely amount of effects my way of thinking and the ability to analyse problematic scenarios. I want NS to win some battles against SS and NH.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 21 March 2012 - 12:04 PM.

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#104 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:18 PM

QUOTE (Konoha'sCrimsonFox @ Mar 21 2012, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But believes and desires are different from facts. Believes are nothing but a fairy tale of someone's imagination. And facts are... basically something that has been finalized. I once believe that Sakura lost any romantic interest in Sasuke until kishi made it clear that Sakura's romantic feelings for Sasuke is not dead by a long shot, and it has made me look like a fool in the pairing war. When the previous week before that, I declared SS and NH DEAD!. And it proved I was wrong and way off, which I was b**** slapped in the face by hordes of NH shippers. That's why i'm not a believer anymore, and have less the fifty percent doubts that the manga will end NS. I'm tire of being on the losing side of the war, which has an immensely amount of effects my way of thinking and the ability to analyse problematic scenarios. I want NS to win some battles against SS and NH.

I feel ya buddy. I don't know if she is in love with the memory Sasuke, or still in love with him but the accused is guilty unless proved otherwise. As of now, there is no proof whatsoever that she has gotten over Sasuke. Reading between the lines does not act as proof, because it's all up to interpretation. We need a solid proof, such as Sakura thinking that she is over Sasuke, OR she speaks that she is over Sasuke believable enough.

I still believe NS will happen 100%. The possibility of NS happening is the same for me as the possibility of Naruto becoming Hokage. They both rely on whether Naruto can save his friend and keep his promise so the possibility of both options are the same imo. The only thing that really worries me is HOW it will happen tongue.gif

Edited by narunarunaru, 21 March 2012 - 12:21 PM.

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#105 Gravenimage

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE (Konoha'sCrimsonFox @ Mar 21 2012, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quite Frankly, I don't remember arguing or bashing someone in particular, or maybe the lack of comprehension can be misleading. It doesn't matter who gets bashed or not. Me and Ciardhra want the same thing (the end manga NS pairing). But believes and desires are different from facts. Believes are nothing but a fairy tale of someone's imagination. And facts are... basically something that has been finalized. I once believe that Sakura lost any romantic interest in Sasuke until kishi made it clear that Sakura's romantic feelings for Sasuke is not dead by a long shot, and it has made me look like a fool in the pairing war. When the previous week before that, I declared SS and NH DEAD!. And it proved I was wrong and way off, which I was b**** slapped in the face by hordes of NH shippers. That's why i'm not a believer anymore, and have less the fifty percent doubts that the manga will end NS. I'm tire of being on the losing side of the war, which has an immensely amount of effects my way of thinking and the ability to analyse problematic scenarios. I want NS to win some battles against SS and NH.


I understand your point and logic you have a right to doubt and think negatively about Sakura's feelings for Naruto. However ciadha has pin pointed out that there's solid proof from the manga and I'm not talking about crap anime or fan fiction for the matter that Sakura has always thought about Naruto first before Sasuke, ciardha mentioned chapter 11 jumping above Naruto saving him from getting hit by Zabuza's sword, that important panel was edited in the anime (this is why you should only focus on the manga). Instead they showed all three members of team seven jumping dodging the sword (so in the anime it wasn't a NS or SS moment but a team seven moment it's good, but what counts the most is Kishi's manga giving the reader a glimpse that Sakura even if she dislikes Naruto, subconsciously she cares for him). Also chunin exams she was willing to quit the test and risk not taking the chunin exams again than seeing Naruto's Hokage dream come to an end not caring of Sasuke's reaction which obviously he will be angry at her because he was determined to pass the test (right there solid proof that she thinks of Naruto first before Sasuke AND this is part 1).

Also has Sakura ever smiled fondly to Sasuke the same way she does to Naruto??? in part 1 her smile when Sasuke told her that Naruto was the one who saved her from Gaara, and when Naruto convinced her that Sasuke was going to be all right and he wouldn't join Orochimaru (this is from the manga because they didn't showed her smiling fondly in the anime, you see another point why you should only read the manga and not the anime). In the mange I have never seen her smiling fondly at Sasuke but it's the other way around, she was worried, scare those kind of emotions that will show negativity. I won't even mention part 2 when it comes to Sakura and Sasuke. The times they have met has been in conflict, nothing friendly or happy not even romantic.

With Sasuke and Sakura- there's too much tension and angst.

With Naruto and Sakura- there's trust, friendship, mutual understanding and love.
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#106 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:47 PM

QUOTE (Gravenimage @ Mar 21 2012, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I understand your point and logic you have a right to doubt and think negatively about Sakura's feelings for Naruto. However ciadha has pin pointed out that there's solid proof from the manga and I'm not talking about crap anime or fan fiction for the matter that Sakura has always thought about Naruto first before Sasuke, ciardha mentioned chapter 11 jumping above Naruto saving him from getting hit by Zabuza's sword, that important panel was edited in the anime (this is why you should only focus on the manga). Instead they showed all three members of team seven jumping dodging the sword (so in the anime it wasn't a NS or SS moment but a team seven moment it's good, but what counts the most is Kishi's manga giving the reader a glimpse that Sakura even if she dislikes Naruto, subconsciously she cares for him). Also chunin exams she was willing to quit the test and risk not taking the chunin exams again than seeing Naruto's Hokage dream come to an end not caring of Sasuke's reaction which obviously he will be angry at her because he was determined to pass the test (right there solid proof that she thinks of Naruto first before Sasuke AND this is part 1).

Also has Sakura ever smiled fondly to Sasuke the same way she does to Naruto??? in part 1 her smile when Sasuke told her that Naruto was the one who saved her from Gaara, and when Naruto convinced her that Sasuke was going to be all right and he wouldn't join Orochimaru (this is from the manga because they didn't showed her smiling fondly in the anime, you see another point why you should only read the manga and not the anime). In the mange I have never seen her smiling fondly at Sasuke but it's the other way around, she was worried, scare those kind of emotions that will show negativity. I won't even mention part 2 when it comes to Sakura and Sasuke. The times they have met has been in conflict, nothing friendly or happy not even romantic.

With Sasuke and Sakura- there's too much tension and angst.

With Naruto and Sakura- there's trust, friendship, mutual understanding and love.


Graven, i understand your point, but it really doesn't matter who loves who. The author... Kishimoto has the power to control what happens in the end. He doesn't need to follow the pairing rule that two individuals must love each other. I know it completely sucks, and just to let you know. I haven't watch the anime ever since the pain arc. that's how far I'm behind the anime. I really hate the fillers in the anime, they intend to have Sakura humorously castrate naruto when clearly in the manga she's grown out of random beat downs on naruto.

We can only look at thinks from the bright side.

There is absolutely no evidence that Naruto loves Hinata... a very bald statement from a NH shipper i happen to cross paths with. There is no evidence that Sasuke loves--even acknowledged Sakura or accept her a friend. There is conclusive evidence Naruto still loves Sakura. There is evidence that link to Sakura loving Naruto rather its is a sibling or romantic love.

We can't look at things from the past tense. The past is irrelevant. We move on wait what kishi has in store for us.

I want solid evidence for example: Sakura runs into his arms a kissed Naruto passionately. I want this panel of their first kiss. I want the panel that they declare their love and announce to the world that they are a couple. I want another panel of them getting married and Sakura delivered her and naruto's first child. These are solid facts that kishi must present to us, then we party and shout SS and NH are dead much times as we like. But we must not get ahead of ourselfs just yet.

Hold your horses ladies and gentlemen w00t.gif

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 21 March 2012 - 01:49 PM.

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#107 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:24 PM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Mar 19 2012, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't say he hasn't done a good job. In fact I praise how he has handled Sakura's romantic development towards Naruto. I agree with many, if not all, of Ciardha comments. It was an irrational worry, irrational is the magic word here.

Kishimoto has done a good job with Sakura. Karin and Ino on the other hand I don't know what Kishi's aiming for with those two maybe still liking Sasuke. That's the part that bothers me.


I'd say for Ino it's hard to let go of someone she crushed on longer than most girls, and perhaps she has learned to overcome it with time, and still needs to find her Mr. Right.

As for Karin, it's obvious she's faking out the Leaf guards so she can get herself out to find Sasuke and kill him. She did say she didn't care about him anymore after seeing just how twisted he's become in his quest for revenge...a s well as mentioning how his chakra's more dark than it was under the Curse Mark State 2. So that's why I get she wants to get loose and kill him.

#108 redragon88

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Bryon_Konoha_Ninja @ Mar 21 2012, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd say for Ino it's hard to let go of someone she crushed on longer than most girls, and perhaps she has learned to overcome it with time, and still needs to find her Mr. Right.

As for Karin, it's obvious she's faking out the Leaf guards so she can get herself out to find Sasuke and kill him. She did say she didn't care about him anymore after seeing just how twisted he's become in his quest for revenge...a s well as mentioning how his chakra's more dark than it was under the Curse Mark State 2. So that's why I get she wants to get loose and kill him.

I hope you're right about Karin. If she starts fangirling I'll officially declare her a hopeless girl. The first thing she better do when she finds Sasuke is give him a punch straight in the face. Her only way to redeem herself is to adopt a "not taking crap from you" attitude when it comes to Sasuke.

#109 catsi563

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:35 PM

As ive explained before if Karins fan girling itll be in oen of two contexts. Either a humerous one and always to herself. Or it will be in the context of what she did to the konoha guards, a trick to make them think shes nuts.

Must work too, shes fooled all the readers into thinking thats all she is.
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#110 tricksie

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 02:36 PM

Wow, I'm kind of glad I wasn't around for all this.

Um...regardless of how much "proof" there is in the manga, the pairing stuff is still open to interpretation.

And there are other ways to breakdown Sakura's future love life than just NS vs SS:

The majority of the NH supporters ship SS. It justifies their ship, and all that. I won't go into it, but you know where I'm coming from.

Then you have people who want Sasuke's redemption. Well, part of that redemption and restoration of the clan involves Sasuke being welcomed back into Konoha. Sakura figures into that as being the long-suffering love.

Both of those paint Sakura in a not-so-great light. So if you like Sakura, then those end pairings are not for you.

As for respect, as in the title of this post, then yeah NS is the ship that respects her character the most. It also has the most development.

But regardless of all that development, it is still not set in stone. I fully believe there are going to be more NH moments as well as *brace yourself* some SS moments. Yeah. I don't know how it's going to happen, but I think Kishimoto's going to ride this pairing horse to the end.

So per thread title, if there are more pairing waves to come, can NS shippers still respect Sakura even if it looks like SS for a while? Or if it looks like NH, then SS becomes de facto?

Anyway, my point is there are more ways to get to SS than outright denying NS development. Sure NS is the most prominent and promising pairing, but until it becomes canon, at the end of the series, it's going to be open to interpretation. And Kishimoto is only playing upon that.

#111 Phantom_999

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 08:58 PM

QUOTE (Konoha'sCrimsonFox @ Mar 20 2012, 01:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So this is the welcome I get huh... Let's see... I missed read the manga... I'm a Sakura basher... WTF is going on here! My straight, forward opinions is not a summay from a fanfiction! I've already gave my statement... And go ahead and be deluded to think Sakura has lost every romantic affection she has for Sasuke. By all means, this is a NS-FC. I do not have anything against it. There's no point in further for me debating here. Flaming means nothing to me, I put it up almost ever update for all my fanfics. Nevertheless some telling me that I lack comprehension of reading the manga, and that I'm a Sakura basher... such disrespectful! O-boy, I thought this fc was going to be nice here, despite my lack of grammar and comprehension skills.


I'm Not bashing you dude. Glad to have you on board. 111191.gif

Azure. It's not that I don't get your point, I am saying that the plot is already laid down, and what follows should already planned out, it's only minor alterations that are being added in and twisted around. Can an author do a 180 and switch the story around. Sure they can. But won't that screw with what's already written and mess up fan's interpretation of the plot? DEFINITELY. So bottom line is that I'm saying Kishimoto DOES have the freedom to choose what happens but that's not an argument to what SHOULD happen because he's already given us hints and ideas of what the main road of the story is going to be and he won't change it on a whim, lest he wants to ruin the experience he's already set up.

QUOTE (AzureWaters @ Mar 20 2012, 04:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for getting my point. And I really think some of you guys need to be more humble. NaruSaku isn't canon right now, and to be honest the overconfidence is shallow at best. You guys panic at the slightest mention of Sasuke or Hinata. That doesn't sound like a group who is so sure of themselves.


Well Isn't making NH and SS canon JUST BECAUSE Kishimoto is the author also shallow? If you call us Overconfident about our pairing so be it; who isn't? Answer me that. Besides anyone can see Naruto and Sakura's interaction as romantic and affectionate, and If they don't it's because they don't want to view it that way. Secondly, We're were never worried about NH or SS to begin with. At least not for me as I can only speak for my self. Have you seen the "DIE FOR OUR SHIP" type of NH and SS fans? The comments they make give me headaches and make me roll my eyes to no end when the characters so much as look at each other or think of them. What they say irks me not because of the anti NS but because they don't properly reason out what they're saying themselves. Even if an NS fan said that NaruSaku would happen for a reason that isn't logical or manga based, I would debate with them as I would for NH or SS because it doesn't make sense.

Edited by Phantom_999, 23 March 2012 - 09:21 PM.

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#112 PachucoDesigns

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 09:06 PM

QUOTE (narunarunaru @ Mar 14 2012, 06:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just as the title says.

When I read people's posts on this forum, I often see posts written, "If Sakura is still in love with Sasuke by the end of the manga I will lose all respect for her". But then I wonder if people are saying that because that means 1.) she won't choose Naruto in the end, or 2.) because being in love with Sasuke itself is disrespecting for her character.

Now on with the question.
For people who choose 2.), why is still loving Sasuke disrespectful?
I don't understand this statement so I would be grateful if people could explain this to me. Because as far as I know, the direction of love is not something you can control rationally. I for one, respected Sakura that she tried to kill the guy she was in love with/still loves for the sake of the greater good. I find it respectful that she thinks highly of her teammate and tries to protect him more than the guy she loves. In the end, even if she is still in love with him, as long as she doesn't date or show affections toward the guy who mistreated her, I think she is still respectable.

Another question for people who choose 2.), if she falls out of love with Sasuke but falls in love with somebody other than Naruto, would you still find her respectable?

P.S. I don't know if this should have been in the debate thread. If it is then sorry. I put on this topic to see how much people connects her worth as a character to NaruSaku romance.


To me, loving Sasuke in the first place was a mark of disgrace in my eyes. Not because he doesn't deserve to be loved, but because the reason she "loved" him had the same shallow, meaningless basis as all of the others who flocked to him like moths to a flame. He's cool. He's hot. He's an elite. He's the strong, silent type. Sasuke never returned these feelings, and never even hinted that he intended to. Yet she continued to "love him" to the point where she broke down in a fit of tears at the gate when he left.

Her change of personality over time, or at least of priorities and consideration, has redeemed her in many respects. And not only has her "love" for Sasuke been given no further justification, his actions against the Hidden Leaf and his turn to a darker path have provided reason for her to lose those feelings. If she still retains that shallow crush after all of this time, and especially after approaching Naruto with that confession, then I can understand how people would lose respect for her.
On the morning of Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, my Aunt Karla passed away. She was my mother's baby sister, and my coolest aunt when I was a kid. She was the best babysitter ever, and she was like an older sister to me.

Karly, I don't know if you can hear this. I am not a believer, I haven't been since Sheryl died. But if you can, I want you to know that I'm truly sorry for everything bad I've ever said about you. When you were suffering, I should have been there to help you. I should have visited. I should have encouraged you to leave the house and get a job, to be active and alive the way you used to be.

I promise that I will do everything that I can to be successful and a good person, to make you proud the way you would have wanted me to. No matter what I said, I loved you. And I will always love you. Rest in Peace, you will never be forgotten.

#113 Dragunov

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 04:25 AM

QUOTE (PachucoDesigns @ Mar 23 2012, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To me, loving Sasuke in the first place was a mark of disgrace in my eyes. Not because he doesn't deserve to be loved, but because the reason she "loved" him had the same shallow, meaningless basis as all of the others who flocked to him like moths to a flame. He's cool. He's hot. He's an elite. He's the strong, silent type. Sasuke never returned these feelings, and never even hinted that he intended to. Yet she continued to "love him" to the point where she broke down in a fit of tears at the gate when he left.

Her change of personality over time, or at least of priorities and consideration, has redeemed her in many respects. And not only has her "love" for Sasuke been given no further justification, his actions against the Hidden Leaf and his turn to a darker path have provided reason for her to lose those feelings. If she still retains that shallow crush after all of this time, and especially after approaching Naruto with that confession, then I can understand how people would lose respect for her.

The truth has never been clearer.

#114 PachucoDesigns

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:20 AM

QUOTE (Dragunov @ Mar 24 2012, 05:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The truth has never been clearer.


And before anyone gets upset with me for saying that, it doesn't mean that I would hate her. I used to hate her very much, as an animated charactiture representing type of girl who has broken my heart many times over the years. However, someone has made me see her in a more objective light and as an overall character. I will always respect her to some degree, and she would have to do nothing less than betray Konoha to join Sasuke in order to change that. But I know that will not happen; it simply wouldn't make sense. It just means, if that turned out to be the case, that her maturity and integrity would take a loss in my eyes.

But then again, if she decides she does still love him, that all depends on what she does with those feelings, doesn't it? Depending on how she handles it, not only may she be redeemed, but she may even clear any doubt against her and be further uplifted. We'll see. smile.gif
On the morning of Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, my Aunt Karla passed away. She was my mother's baby sister, and my coolest aunt when I was a kid. She was the best babysitter ever, and she was like an older sister to me.

Karly, I don't know if you can hear this. I am not a believer, I haven't been since Sheryl died. But if you can, I want you to know that I'm truly sorry for everything bad I've ever said about you. When you were suffering, I should have been there to help you. I should have visited. I should have encouraged you to leave the house and get a job, to be active and alive the way you used to be.

I promise that I will do everything that I can to be successful and a good person, to make you proud the way you would have wanted me to. No matter what I said, I loved you. And I will always love you. Rest in Peace, you will never be forgotten.

#115 redragon88

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:08 AM

QUOTE (PachucoDesigns @ Mar 24 2012, 05:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And before anyone gets upset with me for saying that, it doesn't mean that I would hate her. I used to hate her very much, as an animated charactiture representing type of girl who has broken my heart many times over the years.

It makes me wonder that maybe the people who continuously bash Sakura and prefer Hinata over her do it because they associate Sakura with a type of girl who previously broke their hearts. They believe, based on their personal emotions, that Sakura will only cause Naruto troubles just like the real girls they meet.

I always say this about Tsundere: In manga/anime they're the most adorable type of girl, but in real life they need to be checked into a hospital for observation. They work well in fiction because it's a controlled environment.

Edited by redragon88, 24 March 2012 - 11:10 AM.


#116 PachucoDesigns

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Mar 24 2012, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It makes me wonder that maybe the people who continuously bash Sakura and prefer Hinata over her do it because they associate Sakura with a type of girl who previously broke their hearts. They believe, based on their personal emotions, that Sakura will only cause Naruto troubles just like the real girls they meet.

I always say they about Tsundere: In manga/anime they're the most adorable type of girl, but in real life they need to be checked into a hospital for observation.


Well, as a writer, I can tell you that a character or concept's relatability to real life parallels is the source of an emotionally gripping story. It's what makes you either like or hate a character, and it's what makes your opinion of them your own. You lend that part to the context. Unfortunately, because of this, characters can wind up being hated for the same reasons they are liked.

I think the majority of those who hate her, like I did, realize that the Tsundere concept doesn't quite exist in reality the way it exists in anime and other stories. What we experience, more often the not, is only the blunter side of it. Liking a girl who percievably hates your guts as she chases shallow crushes. Struggling to your wits' end only to have your feelings rejected at every turn. Most of us don't have the emotional fortitude to deal with it like Naruto. Most of us don't give her (girls like her) the benefit of the doubt about caring for anyone other than herself. Most of us get hurt and turn bitter.

Overcoming cynicism is not an easy feat, believe me.
On the morning of Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, my Aunt Karla passed away. She was my mother's baby sister, and my coolest aunt when I was a kid. She was the best babysitter ever, and she was like an older sister to me.

Karly, I don't know if you can hear this. I am not a believer, I haven't been since Sheryl died. But if you can, I want you to know that I'm truly sorry for everything bad I've ever said about you. When you were suffering, I should have been there to help you. I should have visited. I should have encouraged you to leave the house and get a job, to be active and alive the way you used to be.

I promise that I will do everything that I can to be successful and a good person, to make you proud the way you would have wanted me to. No matter what I said, I loved you. And I will always love you. Rest in Peace, you will never be forgotten.

#117 ciardha

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 02:59 PM

QUOTE (PachucoDesigns @ Mar 24 2012, 07:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the majority of those who hate her, like I did, realize that the Tsundere concept doesn't quite exist in reality the way it exists in anime and other stories. What we experience, more often the not, is only the blunter side of it. Liking a girl who percievably hates your guts as she chases shallow crushes. Struggling to your wits' end only to have your feelings rejected at every turn. Most of us don't have the emotional fortitude to deal with it like Naruto. Most of us don't give her (girls like her) the benefit of the doubt about caring for anyone other than herself. Most of us get hurt and turn bitter.


That's a real misunderstanding of the tsundere type. The tsundere type is the polar opposite of selfishly caring about only herself- she cares about others deeply and intensely- moreso than the other types, she cares so much it can emotionally overwhelm her for a short time, before she comes up with an idea and fights more fiercely than ever for others. She rarely thinks of herself, and when she does, she tends to judge herself far more harshly than the situation warrented. This is Sakura part 1 and part 2 to a T. You also see it in the full prototype for the tsundere- Akane Tendo. (and also in the character that is the shoujo origin of the tsundere- Lady Oscar. You also see it in another shojo version of the tsundere type- Makoto Kino (Jupiter) of Salior Moon.

You are conflating the Alpha girl type and the Yandere in her psycho state with the tsundere.

Edited by ciardha, 24 March 2012 - 03:02 PM.

Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971

When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono

Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009

#118 Anguyen92

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 04:31 PM

QUOTE (PachucoDesigns @ Mar 24 2012, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And before anyone gets upset with me for saying that, it doesn't mean that I would hate her. I used to hate her very much, as an animated charactiture representing type of girl who has broken my heart many times over the years.


QUOTE (redragon88 @ Mar 24 2012, 04:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It makes me wonder that maybe the people who continuously bash Sakura and prefer Hinata over her do it because they associate Sakura with a type of girl who previously broke their hearts. They believe, based on their personal emotions, that Sakura will only cause Naruto troubles just like the real girls they meet.


Oh, those are ridiculous thoughts. I had a girl who broke my heart, a good amount of times, and still ended up liking her, for who she is, and being good friends, but I'm different like that. The key here is to remember, what do you want out of the person to be associated with her?

If people are like that and hate a character because that character has a perception of a heartbreaker, than perhaps, they should steer clear of thoughts of that character, then.

Edited by Anguyen92, 24 March 2012 - 04:39 PM.

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#119 PachucoDesigns

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 05:13 PM

QUOTE (Anguyen92 @ Mar 24 2012, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, those are ridiculous thoughts. I had a girl who broke my heart, a good amount of times, and still ended up liking her, for who she is, and being good friends, but I'm different like that. The key here is to remember, what do you want out of the person to be associated with her?

If people are like that and hate a character because that character has a perception of a heartbreaker, than perhaps, they should steer clear of thoughts of that character, then.


Maybe they would, in a perfect world. People are not so rational as that. And aside from that, it's difficult to steer clear of thoughts of a character when they are main character with a pivotal role in the story. It's not a matter of hating a character because she's a heart breaker. It's a matter of hating a character because she is bound to break hearts on the same shallow pretenses that broke the hearts of that group of fans. You wonder why there are so many fans of the series who take swipes at her character? Well, you may not like that there are people out there who think that way, you may think it is ridiculous, but there are. I was one of them.

@ciardha Let me rephrase, then. These set-in-stone archetypes that exist in anime do not exist that way in reality. And most people who see someone that is particularly mean to another, for any reason, are not inclined to believe that she will have a dramatic change of heart because of what archetype her personality conforms to. Archetypes are guides by which to write a story, common patterns for common purposes. But how an audience relates to a character is made no more forgivable because of it, especially in a different culture.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 24 March 2012 - 05:15 PM.

On the morning of Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, my Aunt Karla passed away. She was my mother's baby sister, and my coolest aunt when I was a kid. She was the best babysitter ever, and she was like an older sister to me.

Karly, I don't know if you can hear this. I am not a believer, I haven't been since Sheryl died. But if you can, I want you to know that I'm truly sorry for everything bad I've ever said about you. When you were suffering, I should have been there to help you. I should have visited. I should have encouraged you to leave the house and get a job, to be active and alive the way you used to be.

I promise that I will do everything that I can to be successful and a good person, to make you proud the way you would have wanted me to. No matter what I said, I loved you. And I will always love you. Rest in Peace, you will never be forgotten.

#120 ciardha

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:11 PM

QUOTE (PachucoDesigns @ Mar 24 2012, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@ciardha Let me rephrase, then. These set-in-stone archetypes that exist in anime do not exist that way in reality. And most people who see someone that is particularly mean to another, for any reason, are not inclined to believe that she will have a dramatic change of heart because of what archetype her personality conforms to. Archetypes are guides by which to write a story, common patterns for common purposes. But how an audience relates to a character is made no more forgivable because of it, especially in a different culture.


Where was Sakura "particularly mean" to Naruto? Nowhere in the manga, in fact quite the opposite, even early on in part 1. Naruto hadn't been particularly loveable to Sakura, and considering his well known reputation as a pranker (the only thing he was known for, other than being a hyperactive, loud mouthed braggart who was basically the polar opposite of what he bragged) Sakura could only take his constant "Sakura chan" in the Academy as mocking her. She says as much in chapter 3 to the henged Naruto. From Viz's official translation- "If he had his way, I'd never find love or happiness...he ruins everything...he enjoys tormenting me! Sakura saying she "hated" Naruto in chapter 4 makes perfect sense if you look at those words.

She believed Naruto was deliberately tormenting her, making a mock of her, and she was seen as very low status by the other girls as it was- the object of tormenting when she started the Academy. Ino's protection only stopped the outright tormenting by the other girls, they still viewed her as lower than them on the day she graduated the Academy (remember in chapter 3, the girls muttering "who does she think she is?!" when she sat down beside Sasuke.) Even Ino, despite her friendship with Sakura still treated Sakura as having a much lower status than herself. We see in chapter 3 Sakura was searching for someone to accept her, and her dream was the boy she crushed on, Sasuke, would. Naruto notes on learning this that he now understands why he likes Sakura, she is searching for the same thing he is. It looks like you misunderstood that Sakura didn't actually "hate" Naruto in chapter 4, she hated what she believed was his deliberate tormenting her, making her a object of Naruto's mocking.

Her chapter 4 words are forgotten by both Naruto and Sakura in the very next chapter. Naruto clearly was intelligent enough to quickly realize that it was Sakura's perception of his behavior that she hated, not himself. Sakura blushes at Naruto's heroics and may be figuring out already that his bragging is just a cover, to not show how afraid he really is. She acts instantly, without a moment's hesitation to do what she can do to save Naruto's life from what she believed was an imminent threat. In Chapter 10, when Zabuza attacks Sakura throws herself on top of Naruto to protect him, no thought about how much in danger she was putting herself in by that action (nor does she think of her crush Sasuke's welfare at this moment, it's all about saving Naruto from danger. In chapter 11, she realizes she is having some kind of romantic feelings about Naruto- she doesn't react with repulsion, nor even deny it, it just confuses her... Then we have her numerous actions to support or protect Naruto during the Chunin exams, she even defends Naruto to Sasuke and lets Sasuke know in no uncertain terms that she thinks Naruto is a better ninja than Sasuke. This is all in part 1, in part 2 it's her ironclad rule- to be there for Naruto in every way.

That's the polar opposite of the image you were ascribing to Sakura. You stated you judged Sakura because you choose to see her as being like those girls that rejected you. That's not Sakura's character, not even in part 1- one only look at the above examples from manga canon- and look even at how she acted toward Rock Lee in part 1. His out of the blue over the top love at first sight confession creeped her out, but look how she is toward him from that point on- very kindhearted and caring.
Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971

When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono

Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009




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