169 replies to this topic

[Derock]

Again, you're complaining about something Minato did in a situation in which he did something different, he would have to do anyway in the future. Kyuubi would've come back and wrecked havoc, forcing Minato to do the dead demon seal anyway, and this time without Kushina to restrain it. If it came to that, it would have been even more irresponsible as many more people in the long run would die, and Madara would have gotten it anyway and chances are there would be no one to stop the moon-eye plan. Even then, he would have to find a jinchuriki to contain it anyway. And really, Minato using someone else's kid to contain it? To me that would be the same as a government drafting young people into a war, except those that work in the government; you're willing to let someone else's child and family suffer but not your own. If you're going to be a leader, you look out for the masses first, not your own hide.

Really, under those circumstances, would could he have done differently?

Exactly. That's the point I was trying to make.

@alexander: As I said, Minato was in a very bad situation at start. First off, Madara Uchiha was around the area. Second, we had the Kyuubi, mind-controlled, attacking the village. Now, imagine in his shoes because not only he's a father but also an important figure... Hokage, leader of Konoha, anyone? Do you want him as a selfish person who only worried about his family but doesn't give a damn about the rest of the villagers and ninjas? And there were a few people whom were dead because of the Kyuubi; does Iruka's parents rings a bell? Not to mention, his wife was ready to sacrifice herself for her family and he agree to join her to perform this noble sacrifice.

To me, that's sound like you definitely wanted Minato as a selfish, irresponisble person who obviously isn't fitted to become not only a Hokage, but a father as well. And I believed that Minato already knew from the start as the moment he performed the jutsu, Naruto will have major struggles along the way. He doesn't like it, but as he said, the balance of bijus and jinchuurikis will be broken if he left Kyuubi be revived at the time. Plus, Madara is still around so if Minato would've battled him again, Madara will probably have the upper hand which will make Konoha in danger waters, much greater than the last attack.

And also, that prophecy of Naruto... it wouldn't make sense too. Then again, this story wouldn't be called Naruto now (if Naruto doesn't have the Nine-Tails inside of him), would it?

[Nee-sama]

Dont you see the trend? Obviously this story has a militaristic mind set at this point. So let the Marine school you up.

When in war things have to be done that are not politically correct nor necessarily a civilians definition of "Morally" correct. If I was in minato's place I would have done the same thing. It comes down to protecting everyone. It was let naruto be normal and risk having the 9 tails kill everyone or seal it inside Naruto and saving everyone. I've made hard decisions that (probably) None of you will ever have to make.

If you dont see the trend it is this: Decisions are made for the better of a whole group of people. 1 Person makes self sacrifice in a world where no one else is willing to do it.

I've made choices that no one else was willing to make. I didnt know how things would turn out but I gave up my personal feelings, comforts and peace of mind in order to preserve the lives of more then 1 Marine, more then once. The leaders in this war (Naruto's war) are doing the same thing. They are making tough decisions in a situation that requires immediate action.

Its probably hard for you guys to understand. You have probably not seen war nor felt the pain of it. The pain of watching a friend die in front of you or in your own arms is sharp and fast. Topics like these are hard to explain. So if ya'll have any questions feel free to PM me and I can answer them the best I know how.

I totally agree. Thanks for your service and your input on this matter.

[Sakura Blossoms]

I really don't get the hate and blaming on Minato as well. And how would sealing Kyuubi in another person will be different? It would have been much worse if he had use another victim as a jinchuuriki instead of Naruto. Not to mention they were in a very dire situation as it is.

Agreed with what both you and al0eaz have said.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

Dont you see the trend? Obviously this story has a militaristic mind set at this point. So let the Marine school you up.

When in war things have to be done that are not politically correct nor necessarily a civilians definition of "Morally" correct. If I was in minato's place I would have done the same thing. It comes down to protecting everyone. It was let naruto be normal and risk having the 9 tails kill everyone or seal it inside Naruto and saving everyone. I've made hard decisions that (probably) None of you will ever have to make.

If you dont see the trend it is this: Decisions are made for the better of a whole group of people. 1 Person makes self sacrifice in a world where no one else is willing to do it.

I've made choices that no one else was willing to make. I didnt know how things would turn out but I gave up my personal feelings, comforts and peace of mind in order to preserve the lives of more then 1 Marine, more then once. The leaders in this war (Naruto's war) are doing the same thing. They are making tough decisions in a situation that requires immediate action.

Its probably hard for you guys to understand. You have probably not seen war nor felt the pain of it. The pain of watching a friend die in front of you or in your own arms is sharp and fast. Topics like these are hard to explain. So if ya'll have any questions feel free to PM me and I can answer them the best I know how.

Correct couldnt have found a better way to say it.

[alexander]

Exactly. That's the point I was trying to make.

@alexander: As I said, Minato was in a very bad situation at start. First off, Madara Uchiha was around the area. Second, we had the Kyuubi, mind-controlled, attacking the village. Now, imagine in his shoes because not only he's a father but also an important figure... Hokage, leader of Konoha, anyone? Do you want him as a selfish person who only worried about his family but doesn't give a damn about the rest of the villagers and ninjas? And there were a few people whom were dead because of the Kyuubi; does Iruka's parents rings a bell? Not to mention, his wife was ready to sacrifice herself for her family and he agree to join her to perform this noble sacrifice.

To me, that's sound like you definitely wanted Minato as a selfish, irresponisble person who obviously isn't fitted to become not only a Hokage, but a father as well. And I believed that Minato already knew from the start as the moment he performed the jutsu, Naruto will have major struggles along the way. He doesn't like it, but as he said, the balance of bijus and jinchuurikis will be broken if he left Kyuubi be revived at the time. Plus, Madara is still around so if Minato would've battled him again, Madara will probably have the upper hand which will make Konoha in danger waters, much greater than the last attack.

And also, that prophecy of Naruto... it wouldn't make sense too. Then again, this story wouldn't be called Naruto now (if Naruto doesn't have the Nine-Tails inside of him), would it?

Fine, you guys truth is absolute, I can't compete with that, can I?
Yep, selfish and irresponsible, just the way the people Minato was supposed to protect acted toward Naruto through his whole life, now this what I call irony.

Edited by alexander, 03 June 2011 - 04:01 AM.

[Anguyen92]

Awww yes the whole my dying wish was to see you be revered as a hero and not be treated like a monster guess I was wrong though. Took the poor guy 15 some years before that happened.

[creak]

there seems to be this common theme in this story of people acting as excellent ninjas but as terrible family members. Minato, Sarutobi, Jiraiya, and Itachi all fulfilled their duty to save Konoha, but at the cost of deeply hurting some significant person in their lives.

maybe Kishimoto is trying to make a critique of the concept of the "ninja" itself. that is, by definition it seems that a ninja must sacrifice everything, including family, for duty. perhaps by having the hero, Naruto, try to act differently and find a "third way," Kishimoto is trying to redefine what we could possibly imagine a ninja to be in our art, literature, entertainment, etc.

or maybe i'm just looking too deep into this lol

[Hokage Sennin]

I bet the person beside the former Raikage is the former "C"

[Codus N]

Dont you see the trend? Obviously this story has a militaristic mind set at this point. So let the Marine school you up.

When in war things have to be done that are not politically correct nor necessarily a civilians definition of "Morally" correct. If I was in minato's place I would have done the same thing. It comes down to protecting everyone. It was let naruto be normal and risk having the 9 tails kill everyone or seal it inside Naruto and saving everyone. I've made hard decisions that (probably) None of you will ever have to make.

If you dont see the trend it is this: Decisions are made for the better of a whole group of people. 1 Person makes self sacrifice in a world where no one else is willing to do it.

I've made choices that no one else was willing to make. I didnt know how things would turn out but I gave up my personal feelings, comforts and peace of mind in order to preserve the lives of more then 1 Marine, more then once. The leaders in this war (Naruto's war) are doing the same thing. They are making tough decisions in a situation that requires immediate action.

Its probably hard for you guys to understand. You have probably not seen war nor felt the pain of it. The pain of watching a friend die in front of you or in your own arms is sharp and fast. Topics like these are hard to explain. So if ya'll have any questions feel free to PM me and I can answer them the best I know how.

QFT. I really love how you expressed your opinion here.

And oh, guys cut Truffle some slack, will ya?? he came from a broken home, his father pretty much left him so it's rather understandable why he doesn't like Minato for doing what he did. Which leads to him being a Minato hater. (Sorry, Truffle didn't mean to bring up your bad memories but I had to say it because of the others' lack of understanding why you don't particularly like Minato. If you feel hurt from this, I apologize.)

@ciardha: On Mangastream's version, Ei's views of a Jinchuuriki seems to be less colder than Mangareader's version. However it's still cold, nonetheless. Mangastream's version seemed to hint while he thinks that way, he still loves Bee as a brother and cares for him a lot.

[RedDelicious]

there seems to be this common theme in this story of people acting as excellent ninjas but as terrible family members.

Interesting.

- The 3rd Hokage was the mentor to many outstanding ninjas. He also made separate promises to keep Naruto and Sasuke safe, but despite his grandfatherly qualities those two were tormented. Evidently being "safe" meant only from ninja attacks, not from anguish and lack of care.
- The Hyuga clan sacrificed Hiashi for political reasons, which led the Neji spending his childhood consumed by anger (before Naruto-talk-no-jutsu).
- The Uchiha clan was going to be a threat, so the decision is made to wipe out every family (except for the two brothers)
- Despite their brotherly bond, Bee decided to let Ei think he was captured/dead (for a short time) so that Bee could escape from his village for a vacation
- Gaara, take your pick (before Naruto-talk-no-jutsu)

Edited by RedDelicious, 03 June 2011 - 10:35 AM.

[ciardha]

And oh, guys cut Truffle some slack, will ya?? he came from a broken home, his father pretty much left him so it's rather understandable why he doesn't like Minato for doing what he did.

Eh, I have an emotionally abusive father, and my father didn't do hardly anything for my brother, sister and I after my parents divorced, and I can't say I love him now, even though he's mellowed a lot as he's gotten older. But I adore Minato, he comes very close to my ideal man- he's very open about his feelings and insecurities, very loving, a bit goofy, intensely romantic, intelligent, and his interactions with newborn Naruto just made my heart melt. As his interactions with Kushina. All Kishimoto did was show Minato wasn't perfect, he does freak out when he thinks Kushina is going to die- because he loves her with all his heart and soul, he couldn't bear the thought of living without her. I can understand why his bond to Kushina was even stronger than his bond to Naruto- Naruto had just been born, and he just vaguely had a sense of the bond before Naruto was born, he had known Kushina since they were in the Academy and fell in love with her at some point before Kushina did him, Kushina fell in love with him when they were only around 10-11 years old- they had been a couple for around 15 years, who deeply loved each other.

Minato made the choice that he believed was best, but yes, it was colored by a raw grief about losing Kushina.

[Quinny52]

I'd like to add my own thoughts on this... --Click here to view--

There was also more to Minato's ultimate decision. Think about the time period. This event occurred immediately following the ceasefire of the Third War (a few days/weeks perhaps), with the 5 nations (and smaller ones as well) attempting to rebuild. Tensions would've still been high, with each nation closely monitoring each others activities. I understand Kushina's decision entirely, but if Konoha was to lose its only Tailed Beast (the strongest of the nine, no less) with no jinchuuriki to contain it, then what was to stop either Madara from taking control of it again at his leisure, or for any of the other nations to swoop in, reignite the flames of war and take advantage of the decline in Konoha's military and economic power. The damage the village sustained in the attack would need rebuilding which requires funding (economic impact), and the loss of ninja so soon after the conflict would've been a significant blow on Konoha's abilities to defend themselves. Konoha has held onto the Nine-tails for decades, and losing it on top of the fallout of the attack would've been seen by the other nations as a deep wound, and like sharks smelling blood in the water they would've struck.

It's true that Minato's decision was motivated by the grief of losing his wife, and his belief in the prophecy (a big gamble, and one he didn't take lightly), but in the end it also meant that it would forstall any immediate attacks on Konoha while it was in such a vulnerable state.

Edited by Quinny52, 03 June 2011 - 11:00 PM.

[catsi563]

One has to keep in mind that his decison was also motivated by Duty as well. He couldnt very well deal the Kuuybi in random child #34 could he? Heck no he had one and only one choice and that was to seal it in his own Son, his own flesh and blood. He figured Kushina might survive if medics got to her and shed be there. but fate wasnt that kind unfortunately.

As hokage he had a duty to more then just the village and he had the forthought to choose a vessel he knew could handle that power.

[Strangelove]

We can think of Minato's sacrifice to his son as an act of love towards his family, he loved Naruto and Kushina very much, and he understood the risk of having Naruto grow up without parents. But even today Naruto has forgiven him for that, and he has come to realize that if the 9 tails would have destroyed the village, Naruto would be left without a home, he also understood that if the Kyubi died with Kushina, the land of fire would be left open to an attack, and Madara would get the other eight beast to destroy Konoha, and no one would have stopped him.

Edited by Strangelove, 04 June 2011 - 01:50 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Minato thing. --Click here to view--

If Minato is a bad father for abandoning his son, wouldn't that also make Kushina a bad mother since she was going to sacrifice herself as well? Least we all forget that if Madara didn't try to take the nine-tails in the first place, Naruto would still have parents regardless.

Same with Sasuke. If his village didn't go power hungry, then Konoha wouldn't have told Itachi to do that as well. Wasn't it Sasuke's father who was leader of the village and wanted to attack as well? So is Sasuke's father the real bad guy or was Madara pulling those strings as well?

I never had a father either. I maybe saw my father twice a year in my whole life. It's not the same as others, but I know what it's like to not have a father figure to look up to. Except I had my uncle to look up to which in a way he is kind of like Jiraiya. He is somewhat perverted, but he was good to me. Same as Jiraiya was to Naruto.

Also, to add what others have already said. Minato and Kushina even saw themselves as bad parents, but Naruto said they weren't. Naruto accepted that they did what they had to do cause their options were limited and they chose the best choice they had. If my parents were like that, I wouldn't blame them either because even if I did go through crap through my early years, I know my parents cared enough about me to do so. No other caring parent would do that. Besides, Madara is to blame. Not Minato. In Minato just up and left then yeah he would be a bad father, but he didn't. He stuck by Naruto and Kushina as much as he could. He even put his Flying God seal on Kushina so he can always go to her aid when needed. That's love. He put others before himself and he wanted to just sacrifice himself, but it didn't turn out that way.

We also have this fact. Minato didn't want Naruto to be ridiculed and hated. He told the village to see Naruto as a hero, but the village didn't want to. They saw Naruto as a monster because of the Nine-tails. The 3rd Hokage knew this was a problem because the adults of the village were stupid and selfish. This is why he decreed that they were not allowed to tell their children of the nine-tails in Naruto so that he can have friends and not also hate him just because he is a carrier.

This reminds me of the one famous kid who had AIDS due to a foiled blood transfusion and all the parents of the kids in his school shunned him for it. Some of you may know of this. Micheal Jackson did a song about him.

Itachi also didn't want Sasuke to be evil and resentful, but he became it anyway. So who is to blame? Minato or the people in the village? Gaara had it even worse than Naruto. At least Minato didn't try to kill Naruto like Gaara's father tried to do with Gaara.

------------------------------

This chapter was kind of cool and seeing Naruto fights A was exciting except for being cut short. Naruto has to be the strongest Ninja now in terms of power and speed. Seeing Naruto getting more serious is great and it shows he is finally growing up. I was afraid it might be OOC for Naruto, but it's not. He is like Minato a lot.

Seems there is still this weird agreement both parties can't decide on. Naruto can;t get it through his head that everyone is not JUST fighting for his sake, but for everyone's sake as well. And some of the generals don't get that Naruto is probably the only one who can stop it despite the risks it has. They can't find that middle ground and both are being selfish in an unselfish way...if anyone can understand what I mean here.

I like Bee more and more myself. He is a pretty cool guy.


Here is the thing, I know some of us joke by saying that Naruto thinking of Sakura and with her having her own panel is a NS moment. Some might believe it is real. I don't know really, but it does bring up a question.

What is a NaruSaku moment? What do people consider a NS moment? Last chapter, we had Sakura thinking of Sasuke and everyone, including us, says "It's a SS moment." Hinata thinks of Naruto and boom "It's a NH moment." Doesn't even have to be a definite moment. Just one that "looks" like one, but it seems like every time there is a NS moment. I mean a real one. Everyone, save for us, says "It was just them being teammates" or "It was a sibling thing. They see each other as brother and sister." Why is it only the NS scenes that people have a hard time accepting, but we are expect to accept SS or NH moments no matter how ridiculous?

So when do the other pairing fans ever admit "Yeah that was an NS moment?" It seems to me like no matter what the scene is, they will never admit it, but we have to admit to the others.

"If we look at it face value, we can see Naruto really loves Sakura. Since he didn't think of Hinata, he must hate her."

Again, just saying.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 June 2011 - 02:41 AM.

[Codus N]

Seems there is still this weird agreement both parties can't decide on. Naruto can;t get it through his head that everyone is not JUST fighting for his sake, but for everyone's sake as well. And some of the generals don't get that Naruto is probably the only one who can stop it despite the risks it has. They can't find that middle ground and both are being selfish in an unselfish way...if anyone can understand what I mean here.

Couldn't agree more with you buddy. That's pretty much how I see it, anyways. Which is why I dislike Naruto's decision here even though the higher ups are also at fault. You've pretty much nailed the problem on the spot.

On the Minato stuff, anybody think now would be a good time to bring up PJ's time-travel theory?? if this is true, then you can bet Sakura and Kushina will bash his head in till the end of time when he's "resurrected".

[Paptala]

Seems there is still this weird agreement both parties can't decide on. Naruto can;t get it through his head that everyone is not JUST fighting for his sake, but for everyone's sake as well. And some of the generals don't get that Naruto is probably the only one who can stop it despite the risks it has. They can't find that middle ground and both are being selfish in an unselfish way...if anyone can understand what I mean here.

Well, it probably doesn't help that Gaara and Iruka said point blank to his face that this war was to protect him specifically, but I agree nevertheless.

Here is the thing, I know some of us joke by saying that Naruto thinking of Sakura and with her having her own panel is a NS moment. Some might believe it is real. I don't know really, but it does bring up a question.

What is a NaruSaku moment? What do people consider a NS moment? Last chapter, we had Sakura thinking of Sasuke and everyone, including us, says "It's a SS moment." Hinata thinks of Naruto and boom "It's a NH moment." Doesn't even have to be a definite moment. Just one that "looks" like one, but it seems like every time there is a NS moment. I mean a real one. Everyone, save for us, says "It was just them being teammates" or "It was a sibling thing. They see each other as brother and sister." Why is it only the NS scenes that people have a hard time accepting, but we are expect to accept SS or NH moments no matter how ridiculous?

So when do the other pairing fans ever admit "Yeah that was an NS moment?" It seems to me like no matter what the scene is, they will never admit it, but we have to admit to the others.

"If we look at it face value, we can see Naruto really loves Sakura. Since he didn't think of Hinata, he must hate her."

Again, just saying.

For me, there are two kinds of pairing moments :

a) an instance in which one character bonds with another, resulting in a growth of their relationship
b) an instance in which romantic feelings from one character is shown / hinted at toward another

The NH and SS moments that you are referring to fall under the second.

This is also why I don't really think the panel of Sakura counts as a pairing moment - sure, you could argue that it's from Naruto's thoughts, and she's the only one he thought of by herself and the fact that she came last, but then that could be countered with - but she's the only rookie nine in that area to begin with.

But I agree that it's frustrating that many people seem to brush away NS moments as all friendship bonding while hyping every NH and SS moment. My response is always, "What makes that scene a pairing moment?" And then point out how it applies to the scene that they are trying to brush off. Like the one of Hinata blushing and telling Naruto that it's good to work with him, and then he smiles back at her and says, "Yeah". The blushing from Hinata indicates romantic feelings on her part, so it's a pairing moment. So then that feeding scene that everyone loves to say is just Sakura helping a hurt friend is also a pairing moment, because Naruto is likewise blushing and indicating romantic feelings from his side.

Obviously there are other things that make the feeding scene more of a legitimate pairing moment than the NH one (such as the cultural implications of a girl feeding a boy or Sakura's expression as she makes the offer), but the above is something that can't really be argued against unless they want to claim their NH moment is also not a moment.

[Dreamer]

Naruto can power up Kyubi Chakra/RM Mode?

Found this interesting, so Naruto could possibly speed blitz Ei.

Edited by Dreamer, 04 June 2011 - 05:57 PM.

[Strangelove]

Naruto can power up Kyubi Chakra/RM Mode?

Found this interesting, so Naruto could possibly speed blitz Raikage.

Possible...who knows.

But remember that last time he changed because he received the chakra from the beast itself, so it was more malign and bestial, this time he has the chakra in a stored location.

[Dreamer]

Possible...who knows.

But remember that last time he changed because he received the chakra from the beast itself, so it was more malign and bestial, this time he has the chakra in a stored location.

Wut? The chakra was already in a stored location when Naruto started his training.