267 replies to this topic

[dl316bh]

Too bad the companies didn't decide to actually turn onemanga into something, if it gets 4.2 million visitors a day how much money do you think it could be worth? We have another problem, if we're a Naruto related site how does this affect us in the long and near term?

I wonder how that would work though. Can't help thinking there would be legal loopholes involved. Not to mention different licenses with different companies. I imagine if a company acquired it, it would only have the manga that company licensed and such. I imagine it would have to be owned by a third party to have even the very ability to house as many manga.

As for this place I imagine the people who post the threads will keep using different places; with luck the manga will reach it's conclusion before it becomes too difficult.

[Insurrection]

If there was only a way to tell them that there was a better way then just suddenly shutting down sites that promote viewership, I mean I understand, but in this day in age as I repeat myself. We do not want to wait for a translation in a year in book form if you can put it online in 24 hours with 64 translations. Could you imagine if say Shonen Jump would allow sites to continue until they put chapters out like an eBook form on iTunes every week for 2-4.50 and 8-10 for volumes, even an App!?! You'd make some serious money and if you continue with Mangastream style if you only put out the current chapter in a 7 day period? Not only would you be promoting you'd be opening a market.

Holy crud I think I've just invented something.

And considering that English is spoken nearly 75% around the world, you have people that can work for that space anywhere.

Edited by Insurrection, 25 July 2010 - 05:54 AM.

[dl316bh]

We do not want to wait for a translation in a year in book form if you can put it online in 24 hours with 64 translations.

Perhaps they'll have some kind of online distribution model in the future; American comic companies have already been dabbling in this, so I can't help wondering if manga publishers aren't far behind.

Edited by dl316bh, 25 July 2010 - 05:50 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

I'm not sure it's so much them not finding it as it is them weighing how much damage the sites could do. A couple years ago, things were a lot healthier, so I guess scanlation sites didn't seem to be as pressing an issue as they do now. It's not a smart tactic - I mean, I expect a lot of us knew the market for manga wasn't always going to be as high as it had been in the past - but whatta ya gonna do, eh?

I've heard some rumblings about stricter enforcement of international copyrights too - I think someone touched on this earlier in the thread - so that might well play a factor in this.

Perhaps, but the quality of the manga are not that much different than the ones in Japan. I have to show a comparison later. I have a Love Hina issues in both English and Japanese.

I don't think it is so much the material costs as it is the rights and distribution. Making the manga is easy, publishing and distribution is a little harder and takes a lot of money especially if you go for a wide range of different languages an such. It's like video games. Bungie, for example, wants to reach wider audiences but can;t afford the high costs of publishing. So they signed the contract with Activision because they have the money to do so.

When are these companies going to learn that as much as you want to fight pirating, you can't win. There will always be ways around the system. As long as the internet exists, so will pirating.

I can understand they want to stop pirating because they lose money, but some of things they try or d to prevent said pirating hurts the paying market as well. When you start hurting your paying customers, then they pirate too and it snowballs. As much as this sounds, sometimes the best way to deal with it is do nothing. A lot of times, people buy the manga after they read it free online. This also includes music, video games, and most other media.

The release dates are ridiculous. The American market is at LEAST 1 month behind the Japanese market and that is on a good run.

[Dreamer]

Perhaps they'll have some kind of online distribution model in the future; it's actually somewhat surprising this isn't already a reality, especially considering American comic companies have already started.

OpenManga i believe is aiming for a big online distribution, both payed and free.

Edited by Uzumakikage, 25 July 2010 - 06:16 AM.

[dl316bh]

When are these companies going to learn that as much as you want to fight pirating, you can't win. There will always be ways around the system. As long as the internet exists, so will pirating.

I think they know that they can't outright eliminate pirating; I mean, you can't really eliminate crime either, but the cops don't just pack up. The goal is to make it harder to do it. When something is as easy to pirate as manga had become prior to this... well, let's face it, it's hard to resist the allure of it, especially when it seems no one is doing anything about it. If they take down these major sites, yeah, pirating will still exist - the die hards are going to get it no matter what or how they do it - but it also deters those casual folks who do it partly because of the pure ease and availability. Some people just straight up do not want to go through hassle just to read something, free or not, and aren't as likely to spend an hour scouring the internet just to read one chapter without paying or something.

Openmanga i believe is aiming for a big online distribution both payed and free.

Ahh. I hadn't heard of that. Perhaps they're more on the ball than I thought. Might put this in a bit more perspective too; it would be kind of hard to have people pay for your product when there are three or four sites that make it simple to read a given manga for free, illegal or not.

Edited by dl316bh, 25 July 2010 - 06:02 AM.

[Insurrection]

Okay after reading 5 pages of intro I can safely say that OpenManga stole my idea. It might be today or next year but how long do you think mangastream can keep going if everyone keeps saying their name in a forum on every website?

Edited by Insurrection, 25 July 2010 - 06:00 AM.

[Dreamer]

Okay after reading 5 pages of intro I can safely say that OpenManga stole my idea. It might be today or next year but how long do you think mangastream can keep going if everyone keeps saying their name in a forum on every website?

Good point and i wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to shutdown IRC manga channels.

Edited by Uzumakikage, 25 July 2010 - 06:14 AM.

[Insurrection]

It's ironic that these idiot publishers are hellbent on destroying the very thing that could save them. So how are we all going to keep up with Naruto if everything goes black?

Edited by Insurrection, 25 July 2010 - 06:23 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

I think they know that they can't outright eliminate pirating; I mean, you can't really eliminate crime either, but the cops don't just pack up. The goal is to make it harder to do it. When something is as easy to pirate as manga had become prior to this... well, let's face it, it's hard to resist the allure of it, especially when it seems no one is doing anything about it. If they take down these major sites, yeah, pirating will still exist - the die hards are going to get it no matter what or how they do it - but it also deters those casual folks who do it partly because of the pure ease and availability. Some people just straight up do not want to go through hassle just to read something, free or not, and aren't as likely to spend an hour scouring the internet just to read one chapter without paying or something.

But this isn't like a bank robbery with robbers with machine guns. Even the cops don't make every crime a priority. They sure as hell didn't care when my bike was stolen. They "write it down," but unless it was something major cops don't really care. Maybe that is the point: "prioritizing."

As I said, it's not that they want to stop pirating that bugs me, but the methods they use it try and stop it. Instead of thinking smart and trying to use it to their advantage, they instead try the negative effect and make it worse. It's like if the cops wanted to save a hostage from a bad guy, but instead of trying to shoot the bad guy they shoot the hostage to get to the bad guy. Yeah kind of an extreme circumstance, but not something that is looked upon as "right."

Which is what these publishers do sometimes. Instead of stopping the pirates, they hurt paying customers by shooting them in the foot.

They used to say in business: "It is better to make a buck than nothing." What they could do is instead of bringing down sites like onemanga, cooperate. Have them only post the latest chapter and that's it. If people want to read the previous chapter, they have to buy the manga. This way, everybody wins.

I don't really know how to solve a problem as pirating, but "pirates" are not going to pay for it anyway so don't expect them to. Once a pirate, always a pirate.

Okay after reading 5 pages of intro I can safely say that OpenManga stole my idea. It might be today or next year but how long do you think mangastream can keep going if everyone keeps saying their name in a forum on every website?

Ahh irony at it's best. This is like a quadruple irony right here actually.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 25 July 2010 - 06:23 AM.

[Insurrection]

However ms could plea a better case in my opnion it's temporary, the material released is in fact not available in the target audience because of terrible publishers, that said I hope that there is a way to take a stand, millions are affected by this. Let's just hope Openmanga can solve our problems.

Edited by Insurrection, 25 July 2010 - 06:40 AM.

[Prime]

Not even a big deal really , the only thing they are taking away is the convenience and exposure to their product. So you can't just go click 1 button and find you're Manga and read it whenever you need. I think the sad part is there is a insane amount of Manga you will never know about , simply because people in the USA are not exposed to Manga at the level people in Japan are. It's really the same position music is in , you find the artist that make the most money are not the ones putting out albums , but that ones that are going on tour , and coming to you're city or are just really well known locally. If Manga want's to continue beyond what it is now and take away free view they will have to change. It will have to expand , advertise better and become reliable , cheaper and easily obtained. To be honest , it's a good thing because if Manga company's do not put out quality at a fair price or change the way they work they just won't make money , and no company likes that idea.

[Codus N]

Pretty much agree with everything you say Kodachi. But hey, if we can get it at a MUCH cheaper price, people would obviously feel ripped off.
And a little heads up: in case you guys want to know more about the OpenManga project, go check out my thread. I'll also be posting updates on their blogs as well.

Edited by Newkerz, 25 July 2010 - 01:47 PM.

[RikutoShika]

Oh god...I can just see it coming first OM goes down then MangaStream,then another will go down...Ill slowly loose track on all my favourite manga chapters Ill go nuts!!!!!

[Sakura Blossoms]

It's ironic that these idiot publishers are hellbent on destroying the very thing that could save them. So how are we all going to keep up with Naruto if everything goes black?

Excuse me, but how exactly is having these 'idiot' publishers mangas pirated and shared for FREE, at absolutely no profit to themselves going to save them?

Just because you're mad about losing your 'free priviledge' doesn't make these publishers 'idiots'. In fact it's one of the smartest things for them to do if they want to try to save their industry, and have money flowing back to them. By having people actually go out and ya know, buy the mangas instead of getting them absolutely free at no cost.

[dl316bh]

I don't really know how to solve a problem as pirating, but "pirates" are not going to pay for it anyway so don't expect them to. Once a pirate, always a pirate.

You're right. They're not going to solve it. What I'm trying to get at here is that it's become all too easy to pirate manga beyond... well, pretty much anything else.

I mean, let's look at it here. There have been several sites with thousands upon thousands of pages of all kinds of different manga. All illegally up to view for free. Now, like you said, your average pirate isn't going to buy it no matter what; they'll go out of their way to pirate it if they must (the whole "YOU CAN'T STOP THE INTERNETS!!!!" thing). But your average joe is quite likely different. Imagine them coming across this; probably pretty moral and upstanding. They find out they can buy the manga in volumes or choose from three or four convenient websites that have them all up, easily viewed and for free. Illegal or not, that's a damn strong allure, right?

Also, let's consider that scanlation and manga pirating has become way too widespread. You go on the internet, pretty much everyone knows about it and partakes in it. I'm not sure I've ever seen a fandom that large primarily based around illegally pirating something as with manga fandom. Are those people going to buy the manga volumes too? You've got good eggs like yourself, who will because they want to be supportive, but not everyone is like that. In fact, most aren't. There have even been folks earlier in this thread who have mentioned buying the volumes until they realized they could pirate them disgustingly easy. If anything, pirating manga became too visible and it seems the manga companies are now feeling the bad result of this.

In their mind, if they take out these easy pirating sites, it could shift the balance. Sure, the hardcore piraters (you know, the "stick it to the man" or "screw corporations!!!!" types) will still do it. You're not going to change them no matter what you do. But they will have removed the ease and convenience of pirating that entices an average joe who might not otherwise do it. It ain't defeating pirating, but like I said earlier, I don't think that's the goal.

And James has sort of touched on what I was saying on how much like music and tv, the Internet started as a problem and now companies are using that as another tool, the manga industry has to do the same.

True, but they'll need to take out sites like this to do it; it's kind of hard to say "hey, buy my product" when over to the left it's disgustingly easy to pirate the same manga for free.

[Gravenimage]

At this rather I'm afraid mangastream won't survive the summer if mangafox has already removed the big three.

[Derock]

At this rather I'm afraid mangastream won't survive the summer if mangafox has already removed the big three.

I'm not sure Mangastream will be gone anytime soon since they're using a method for each of their 11 manga database: 4 chapters for online viewing then deleted the oldest when the new chapter is released. Though, I'm having doubts as well because this may not last long. (While this happening, I *ahem* saving the pages )

[Dreamer]

At this rather I'm afraid mangastream won't survive the summer if mangafox has already removed the big three.

Don't Jinx it.