156 replies to this topic

[Codus N]

Perhaps both fathers will die here as Uchiha and Senju decided to start anew and begin to bring peace. Tobirama will be the one who's not sure about it as Hashirama feels it's best. We most likely time skip ahead to get to the part where they elect the Hokage. If Madara's story is true, supposedly Madara was given eyes by his brother to overcome Hashirama in the candidate. When he loses that and lost trust of Uchiha, he will feel that Izuna's sacrifice was in vain and pretty much died by Hashirama. Well not really, but you can get the idea of Madara's love. It was hinted in this chapter that he will protect him and he looks dead serious about it. That's my assumption.

I think what will happen is, as both fathers start to land the killing blow on each kids (Hashi and Madara) both kids will kill their fathers to protect their friend. Hashi and Madara become confused and grieve. They killed their fathers in order to protect each other. This will pave the way for their dreams and ambitions. They both decide it would be best for each other to separate for now in order to focus on their clans and get stronger the next time they meet.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think what will happen is, as both fathers start to land the killing blow on each kids (Hashi and Madara) both kids will kill their fathers to protect their friend. Hashi and Madara become confused and grieve. They killed their fathers in order to protect each other. This will pave the way for their dreams and ambitions. They both decide it would be best for each other to separate for now in order to focus on their clans and get stronger the next time they meet.

At this age???????????????????????????????????????

[Chucky-kun]

I think what will happen is, as both fathers start to land the killing blow on each kids (Hashi and Madara) both kids will kill their fathers to protect their friend. Hashi and Madara become confused and grieve. They killed their fathers in order to protect each other. This will pave the way for their dreams and ambitions. They both decide it would be best for each other to separate for now in order to focus on their clans and get stronger the next time they meet.

They don't even have weapons.

[candycane-chan]

I think what will happen is, as both fathers start to land the killing blow on each kids (Hashi and Madara) both kids will kill their fathers to protect their friend. Hashi and Madara become confused and grieve. They killed their fathers in order to protect each other. This will pave the way for their dreams and ambitions. They both decide it would be best for each other to separate for now in order to focus on their clans and get stronger the next time they meet.

I can't see this happening. Each killing the other's father? no.
And what about their brothers? They definitely won't stand there and watch. No, something like that wouldn't happen.

[Codus N]

They don't even have weapons.

Don't count on it. Being a shinobi in this era highly requires you to bring weapons just in case. I'm pretty sure they have some kunais with them. Either that, or they can use their fathers' weapons.

And I think Tobirama and Izuna would probably listen to their brothers. We know that if Hashi's dead serious on something, Tobirama will back down quickly. Same should go for Izuna, I think.

[That Uchiha]

I think what will happen is, as both fathers start to land the killing blow on each kids (Hashi and Madara) both kids will kill their fathers to protect their friend. Hashi and Madara become confused and grieve. They killed their fathers in order to protect each other. This will pave the way for their dreams and ambitions. They both decide it would be best for each other to separate for now in order to focus on their clans and get stronger the next time they meet.

That's dark...I hope this is what Kishimoto is going for! This would make for an awesome chapter.

[TouKen4Life3g]

That's dark...I hope this is what Kishimoto is going for! This would make for an awesome chapter.

Well, Kishi surprisingly did a dark turn on Kakashi's part with Rin, so anything can happen. I like your sig.

[T XD]

Each killing the other's father will make Hashirama as bad as Madara. In the end, they killed two persons which they could have not kill, and this wasn't in the mean of killing them in order to save themselves from them either.

[Codus N]

Unfortunately, you're not getting the message behind these flashbacks.

What the flashbacks show us is how human all of them are. Butsuma is shown to be as heartless and cruel as the Uchiha. This shows us how the Senju aren't exactly the good side. In the meanwhile, we see how human Madara is. He's not just some crazy warmongering kitten. Apparently, he had a more positive outlook on life when he was a child. It just goes to show you no one is born inherently evil in the series.

Hashirama killing his own father would add some more depth to his character. Even he has some blood on his hands.

[fireandice]

Unfortunately, you're not getting the message behind these flashbacks.

What the flashbacks show us is how human all of them are. Butsuma is shown to be as heartless and cruel as the Uchiha. This shows us how the Senju aren't exactly the good side. In the meanwhile, we see how human Madara is. He's not just some crazy warmongering kitten. Apparently, he had a more positive outlook on life when he was a child. It just goes to show you no one is born inherently evil in the series.

Hashirama killing his own father would add some more depth to his character. Even he has some blood on his hands.

^ this

With the portrayal of Hashirama's dad, I think Kishi wanted to destroy any idea that the whole Sage's Elder and Younger sons thing became a perfect dichotomy of good (Senju) and evil (Uchiha). That may be so in the beginning, but I think in the end the environment of constant warfare created this sort of brutality and seriously warped idea of love amongst the Senju too.

It's indeed possible he'll show blood on Hashirama's hands.

Edited by fireandice, 08 March 2013 - 05:48 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Next chapter should be interesting to see where the formation of Konoha begins, since this looks like where life changes their course.

[T XD]

Unfortunately, you're not getting the message behind these flashbacks.

What the flashbacks show us is how human all of them are. Butsuma is shown to be as heartless and cruel as the Uchiha. This shows us how the Senju aren't exactly the good side. In the meanwhile, we see how human Madara is. He's not just some crazy warmongering kitten. Apparently, he had a more positive outlook on life when he was a child. It just goes to show you no one is born inherently evil in the series.

Hashirama killing his own father would add some more depth to his character. Even he has some blood on his hands.

How would what I did say before have anything to do with me understanding the message behind these flashbacks ? We don't know specifically anything on what could happen in the next chapters. I tried to think it through which was my response.

Hashirama can kill anyone in a fight to protect and save himself in a fight. I'm not saying he hasn't had blood on his hands. But, why would these two good boys go and kill their fathers ? At least, for Hashirama, it would show him that he's not in a good spot in terms of killing a close person to him, not to mention that he wants to make a better world.

Maybe it will happen, and maybe not. But if it happens, then I'm interested in how Kishi will do it, and knowing the idea and the explanation from Hashirama's especially.

Edited by T XD, 08 March 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[ciardha]

Madara's brother definitely isn't going to die here. I believe we saw a 'flashback' of him being much older (adult at least) when he gave up his eyes.

In the previous set of flashbacks Izuna looked around Sasuke's age in part 2- so around 16 most likely when the whole thing with the eyes happened. In the latest chapter he's a number of years younger than that.

Whatever happens here is what sets them on their paths- Madara becoming obsessed with power to achieve control of the Uchiha clan, while Hashirama turns even more strongly toward compassion to turn the Senju away from the kind of life where even a young child is just a sacrifice to an endless war. (they become a reflection of their clan founding ancestors.) I think the adults end up killing each other, leaving Madara and Hashirama essentially as head of their clans, they chose to end the battle, but go their separate ways.

Edited by ciardha, 08 March 2013 - 10:28 PM.

[catsi563]

there is also the possibility that Hashirama may heal or save Izunas life which might be a catalyst of some sort.

[Don-kun]

How would what I did say before have anything to do with me understanding the message behind these flashbacks ? We don't know specifically anything on what could happen in the next chapters. I tried to think it through which was my response.

Hashirama can kill anyone in a fight to protect and save himself in a fight. I'm not saying he hasn't had blood on his hands. But, why would these two good boys go and kill their fathers ? At least, for Hashirama, it would show him that he's not in a good spot in terms of killing a close person to him, not to mention that he wants to make a better world.

Maybe it will happen, and maybe not. But if it happens, then I'm interested in how Kishi will do it, and knowing the idea and the explanation from Hashirama's especially.

Just read the chapter today, I would say that I completely agree with you view, Madara and Hashirama killing there parents does not fix in the context of this flash back.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

In the previous set of flashbacks Izuna looked around Sasuke's age in part 2- so around 16 most likely when the whole thing with the eyes happened. In the latest chapter he's a number of years younger than that.

Whatever happens here is what sets them on their paths- Madara becoming obsessed with power to achieve control of the Uchiha clan, while Hashirama turns even more strongly toward compassion to turn the Senju away from the kind of life where even a young child is just a sacrifice to an endless war. (they become a reflection of their clan founding ancestors.) I think the adults end up killing each other, leaving Madara and Hashirama essentially as head of their clans, they chose to end the battle, but go their separate ways.

I dont think that it was here that Madara will become more obsessed with power, i think it's here when it will start his desire to achieve the top of his clan and take it's control, the same will happen to Hashirama, they ofc wont meet anymore since they fathers know this.
What changed Madara was the death of Izuna, this is the reason why on their fight he didnt listen to hashirama's arguments because his brother tobirama was alive, Madara lose his family and his clan turned their back to him.

This whole flashback for me is the "The downfall of Uchiha Madara" rather than Hashirama's flashback, i think he's telling Madara's life story on his perspective to parallel to Sasuke and even may telling how Sasuke will gonna be.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 09 March 2013 - 01:07 AM.

[jworks]

I dont think that it was here that Madara will become more obsessed with power, i think it's here when it will start his desire to achieve the top of his clan and take it's control, the same will happen to Hashirama, they ofc wont meet anymore since they fathers know this.
What changed Madara was the death of Izuna, this is the reason why on their fight he didnt listen to hashirama's arguments because his brother tobirama was alive, Madara lose his family and his clan turned their back to him.

This whole flashback for me is the "The downfall of Uchiha Madara" rather than Hashirama's flashback, i think he's telling Madara's life story on his perspective to parallel to Sasuke and even may telling how Sasuke will gonna be.

I agree. Hashirama is "telling" the flashback to Sasuke after all because he wanted to know the story and history of his clan. Hashirama would of course tell the story but from his perspective since he was so close to the situation.

This Madara changing with the death of Izuna is comparable to Sasuke's story. The details are different but they both had incredible love for their brother, whom they lost and then went to seek more power because of it.

In this flashback Madara's story is really reminding me of Anakin Skywalker haha. Madara just wants to protect his brother so badly that it will probably drive him to do bad things. Anakin wanted to find a way to save Padme so he was persuaded to turn to the dark side. When we've seen Madara as an adult, he seems so arrogant about his power and it seems like he has attained it just for its own sake but I suspect the beginnings of his lust for power is in the loss of his brother.

Edited by jworks, 09 March 2013 - 03:36 AM.

[Codus N]

How would what I did say before have anything to do with me understanding the message behind these flashbacks ? We don't know specifically anything on what could happen in the next chapters. I tried to think it through which was my response.

Hashirama can kill anyone in a fight to protect and save himself in a fight. I'm not saying he hasn't had blood on his hands. But, why would these two good boys go and kill their fathers ? At least, for Hashirama, it would show him that he's not in a good spot in terms of killing a close person to him, not to mention that he wants to make a better world.

Maybe it will happen, and maybe not. But if it happens, then I'm interested in how Kishi will do it, and knowing the idea and the explanation from Hashirama's especially.

The problem is the bolded right there. You're going "Oh, they're such good boys. There's no way they'd do that. They're too pure and innocent" Whut?? gimme a break. You sound like you want this story to be rainbow and fluffs all abound. Well, news flash for you. The story doesn't work that way. That's not how Kishimoto usually writes a character's background. Usually when Kishimoto delves into a character's background more, he always adds that one dark moment in their lives that changes them.

The moment when Hashirama kills his own father is the moment Hashirama finds his resolve to change the world. Madara as well too.

[kirabook]

So, how far into the 'future' do you think these flashbacks will go? Will we see these guys as grown men, or is that what the battle before the childhood flashbacks were supposed to be?

Also, I roughly estimate we will be in flashback mode until early-mid April.

[jworks]

So, how far into the 'future' do you think these flashbacks will go? Will we see these guys as grown men, or is that what the battle before the childhood flashbacks were supposed to be?

Also, I roughly estimate we will be in flashback mode until early-mid April.

Me wonders too...The flashback battle right before the childhood one was the battle after Madara left Konoha and came back with the nine tails to challenge Hashirama so maybe after the childhood part is done, the flashback will go back to the end of that battle where Hashirama seals the nine tails.

I don't know how many chapters but I suspect the flashback will be over once this deal with the father/son/brother battle ends, or just after that when we also see the end of the nine tails adult battle that the flashback started with.

I hope it does at least. I kind of already get the whole idea so I just want to move on mostly.