346 replies to this topic

[Luna]

Hahahahahaha! I'm laughing so bad. That's why this manga is trash. I don't care what anyone says this ending completely makes this manga trash and for him to justify abusing women makes kishomoto less than trash. I'm glad I'm over this manga. AMEN.

[Serenity Namikaze]

 

Oooo, I completely forgot about that line. That was really cringeworthy too. But I gave him a pass, thinking it was a one-time thing, clumsy translation, etc. Boy was a wrong.

 

Ohhh god!! I remember this part too uurrrkkkkk

[tricksie]

Exactly. This isn't even a feminist issue. This is a basic human rights issue (which ties in to feminism regardless). Like, he basically just stated that it's okay to stay loyal to your abuser. Couldn't care less if Sakura was male or female, that's just horrible.... 

 

I think I'm done. I can't deal with this anymore...

 

Right. It's disgusting. And it's terrible he's doing it in a manga that is targeted toward such an impressionable age-bracket.

[Coca Cola]

Well, there goes my brain cells.

 

[Zatheko]

I don't get his logic.

 

Sakura moving on from someone who never showed interest in her and has tried to kill her multiple times = her being a terrible character,

 

But Naruto moving on from someone who actually DID seem to be showing interest back and had a great friendship with = not a terrible character.

 

The hypocrisy is real.

[deviouslyChaotic]

 

So basically take everything from tumblr with a grain of salt because the population of Naruto fans have, by and large, chosen a side in this ongoing bloodbath between pairing factions? 

 

It is nice to hear that some members of the opposing fandoms are able to look beyond the glamour of their OTP's canonisation beneath the surface at the true ugliness of Kishi's words. The likelihood of any SS or NH fan getting up in arms over Kishi's backtracking is almost zero, however. The most we can hope for is a greater uproar from the groups who are able to, as you said, thoroughly and impartially analyse the manga, including the dynamics of the relationships between Naruto and Sakura and with the two other characters as well. 

Pretty much! One main reason people who are part of a fandom join tumblr is to bask in the glory of said fandom while also expressing how much adoration the hold for a particular fandom.

As for the rest of your post, agreed!!

[harry4e]

lol...so ignoring a person who loved her unconditionally, playing with his feeling by falsely confessing makes her a good woman? Oh boy he made her look so much worst by having her choose Sasuke.

 

Edit: He should have done his research, by doing what he did, he made all the Sakura fans look like idiots, we supported her through all the crap Kishi put her charactor through, because we saw something more in her charactor but ultimately, he just gave the Sakura haters a three course Five star meal. Most of her fans supported her with Naruto, and he went and destroyed her charactor completely.

 

Edit ": Kishi and his Assistants remind me of Ubisoft at the moment, everytime they make a statement to justufy their decision they just end up digging themselves deeper into the hole.

Edited by harry4e, 20 November 2014 - 10:56 PM.

[MangaReader]

Is Kushina a terrible woman too because she initially hated Minato?

[六道仙人]

Is Kushina a terrible woman too because she initially hated Minato?

 

yes, that's why she died just after he gave birth to Naruto.

[Lady Lys]

There are no lessons in Naruto, there are no morals in Naruto,

 

 

 

THERE IS NO POINT IN NARUTO.

[六道仙人]

There are no lessons in Naruto, there are no morals in Naruto,

 

 

 

THERE IS NO POINT IN NARUTO.

 

aka Federico Moccia is a great writer compared to him.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

There are no lessons in Naruto, there are no morals in Naruto,

 

 

 

THERE IS NO POINT IN NARUTO.

 

Out of the Italian's mouth. 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 20 November 2014 - 11:00 PM.

[Lady Lys]

 

aka Federico Moccia is a great writer compared to him.

Compared to him Moccia is kittening Hemingway....or Nietzsche, or Kant, or Hegel.

 

(still I hope for the sanity of the rest of the world that his "book" wasn't translated in other languages. He already has deviated an entire generation of young italians)

 

 

 

 Out of the Italian's mouth. 

Do you also want the cusses? 'Cause I'm ready to fire....

Edited by Lady Lys, 20 November 2014 - 11:03 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Thankfully I have no clue who that man is, nor do I care to know...

Cusses make everything better, don'cha'know? 

[DJSparty]

Sorry about this double post guys, but I thought this thread was a more appropriate place to put my rant rather than the movie thread:

 

The degradation of the titular character's goals and interests are astounding. Never before have I read a piece of fiction where the main character was just thrown to the wayside in the last chapter, epilogue, and this farce of a movie. The facts are that it doesn't matter when Kishimoto decided on the final pairings. If there was some sort of progression towards the endgame pairings. The story would have been MUCH MORE digestible and the ending would have made sense. The red herrings that Kishi gave us are insulting to the characters he created and the relationships they had, Jiraiya/Tsunade, Obito/Rin, and most importantly Minato/Kushina. 
 
The travesty of this is that the writer of a series would go to extreme lengths to keep the fans guessing. An old friend of mine who happened to get in to Naruto the same time as me has a degree in English with a specialization in creative writing. He's currently aiming for a PhD in English. We happened to run into each other and caught up, one of our common interest were this manga and he too was shocked with the ending and he's not even a shipper at all He broached several topics, but one of the main ones we discussed was the artwork. I don't know how much depicting literal foreshadowing plays in Japanese culture but showing mirror panels EVERYWHERE would give an educated individual such as him a great sense where the story was headed...... NOPE. 
 
Another issue he had was with the whole "pale love" Naruto had for Sakura. He heavily criticized Kishi for showing the CPR scene. He said, and I quote, "The literal symbolicism of a girl holding a boy's heart in her hands means that his heart is devoted to her, the fact that she beats it for him just compounds that fact that she is his reason for living." While I thought that was pretty strong a statement I couldn't really deny it.
 
The artwork of this manga and the anime are completely counter intuitive to what Kishi wrote and/or planned. We both concluded that Kishi's writing skills should be called into question and any future works should be looked at with a grain of salt. A self respecting writer who should care for his fans has a duty to write a clear concise story that flows well so that his fans understand the story first and foremost. 
 
We also both agreed that if Kishi wasn't good at writing romance, he should have never delved so deep into it in the first place. Fact is he couldn't conclude the love triangle properly withing 700 chapters and 15 years of writing this manga. Using a movie to show how the romance developed for the MAIN CHARACTER further exacerbates this thought. Even now, we are getting hints that they are embarrassed drawing these "romantic scenes". Kishimoto and his team bit off more than they could chew and are now backtracking like nobody's business in order to make this all seem plausible. 
 
The Naruto fandom will probably only get a true answer of what really went through Kishimoto's head well after Part 3 has ended. Many writers such as JK Rowling, and Akira Toriyama have done so, explaining what they might have done differently or if they were indeed pressured to change the story to cater to the masses.

[narusakuotp]

Well, here it is, my new avatar and sig! I hope this lightens the mood a bit...sexism isn't something to take lightly, but pigmoto is! Yes, that is a pig nose on Kishi in my avatar...

Edited by narusakuotp, 20 November 2014 - 11:12 PM.

[Dario]

There are no lessons in Naruto, there are no morals in Naruto,

 

 

 

THERE IS NO POINT IN NARUTO.

What are you talking about? There's plenty of excellent messages that can be taken from Naruto:

 

-treating people with respect and care is pointless

-selfishness is rewarded, selflessness punished

-if you know the right persons and/or are pretty enough, you can get off scott free even after multiple betrayals, murders, murder attempts and acts of international terrorism

-abuse is the most romantic thing in the world

-if you commit genocide, pointlessly torture your little brother's life and ruin his life everybody will suck your kitten and treat you like a literal saint

-work hard and never give up, you too can accomplish absolutely nothing, success is only for people who won the genetic lottery

-war and revenge are bad m'kay, except war ends up unitingthe world so it's good and revenge only means you'll be in a dark place for a bit and everything will be fixed with a half assed "sorry"

[Strangelove]

And there you have it...Kishi wasn't trying to figure in what his editors thought...Oh no, this ending was all his.

[harry4e]

 

It's not just the feminist fans who are pissed. Individuals like myself who are usually called conservative or right wing because of my view on natural rights hate this kitten as well. It boils down to the fact that if you have any positive view of human individuality and dignity Kishimoto just doesn't understand you.

 

Feminists? Forget Feminists, I'm a 30 Something bloke, and I am pissed off on behalf of my mother, my Three Older Sisters, and my five nieces. This manga is aimed at vulnerable teenagers, they read manga and stories and many of them look at them for advice, what advice did this give the awkward girl in a relationship with a violent boyfriend? Or a shy girl who likes the popular kid in class? Or that girls best boy friend who is in love with her?

 

That ending for me as an adult, just angers me on so many levels, specially when I think of the demographic the story was aimed at. And I'm not a Pro-feminist or anything like that, if anything I think many are nothing more tha attention grabbing men haters, that give the real feminist, the ones who work hard everyday, earn their respect, prove to the sexist men that they are just as good as them a bad name. Something I thought Sakura was being shown as..only to be crapped away for a lame excuse.

[Xan]

Sorry about this double post guys, but I thought this thread was a more appropriate place to put my rant rather than the movie thread:

 

The degradation of the titular character's goals and interests are astounding. Never before have I read a piece of fiction where the main character was just thrown to the wayside in the last chapter, epilogue, and this farce of a movie. The facts are that it doesn't matter when Kishimoto decided on the final pairings. If there was some sort of progression towards the endgame pairings. The story would have been MUCH MORE digestible and the ending would have made sense. The red herrings that Kishi gave us are insulting to the characters he created and the relationships they had, Jiraiya/Tsunade, Obito/Rin, and most importantly Minato/Kushina. 
 
The travesty of this is that the writer of a series would go to extreme lengths to keep the fans guessing. An old friend of mine who happened to get in to Naruto the same time as me has a degree in English with a specialization in creative writing. He's currently aiming for a PhD in English. We happened to run into each other and caught up, one of our common interest were this manga and he too was shocked with the ending and he's not even a shipper at all He broached several topics, but one of the main ones we discussed was the artwork. I don't know how much depicting literal foreshadowing plays in Japanese culture but showing mirror panels EVERYWHERE would give an educated individual such as him a great sense where the story was headed...... NOPE. 
 
Another issue he had was with the whole "pale love" Naruto had for Sakura. He heavily criticized Kishi for showing the CPR scene. He said, and I quote, "The literal symbolicism of a girl holding a boy's heart in her hands means that his heart is devoted to her, the fact that she beats it for him just compounds that fact that she is his reason for living." While I thought that was pretty strong a statement I couldn't really deny it.
 
The artwork of this manga and the anime are completely counter intuitive to what Kishi wrote and/or planned. We both concluded that Kishi's writing skills should be called into question and any future works should be looked at with a grain of salt. A self respecting writer who should care for his fans has a duty to write a clear concise story that flows well so that his fans understand the story first and foremost. 
 
We also both agreed that if Kishi wasn't good at writing romance, he should have never delved so deep into it in the first place. Fact is he couldn't conclude the love triangle properly withing 700 chapters and 15 years of writing this manga. Using a movie to show how the romance developed for the MAIN CHARACTER further exacerbates this thought. Even now, we are getting hints that they are embarrassed drawing these "romantic scenes". Kishimoto and his team bit off more than they could chew and are now backtracking like nobody's business in order to make this all seem plausible. 
 
The Naruto fandom will probably only get a true answer of what really went through Kishimoto's head well after Part 3 has ended. Many writers such as JK Rowling, and Akira Toriyama have done so, explaining what they might have done differently or if they were indeed pressured to change the story to cater to the masses.

 

If I had likes to give I would give you but i ran out of likes a long time ago so much top quality posts today.

 

Honestly I cant bring myself to say much more Narusaku should been together end of story.

 

This interview supports even more that NS was planned ..........why did you destroy your story kishi sigh

 

I do thank him for coming out with the fact that NS was considered/planned though we already knew it but it was a much needed slap to some NH fans that thought it wasnt, but that SS support comment with regards to sakura kishi women every where should pick up pots and pans and hunt you down