54216 replies to this topic

[Jake]

I don't know about that. My opinion is that Kishi wrote himself into a hole with the Uchiha tablet showing the potential power of sharingan controling Biju. When Taka did fight B, my guess is that  he didn't want a two second fight as he wanted to establish B's character strength as well as showcase Sasuke's new powers.

 

I think that the Taka vs. B fight was the answer to the Sharingan's control of the Biju, as Gyuki was able to near instantaneously dispel Sasuke's Genjutsu, and from what we've been shown how the Sharingan controls the Biju is with Genjutsu.

 

Though I hav to disagree about the whole sync thing only bc of Naruto's fights with Itachi. Every time he fights Itachi he gets controlled by his genjutsu.

 

I think you forgot that every time Itachi placed Naruto under a Genjutsu was before Naruto befriended Kurama, of course Narutow as controlled by Itachi's Genjutsu, because he and Kurama were not even on speaking terms at the time.

 

If the sharingan can control both the Kyubi and Naruto individually, it's not hard to believe that it could control them in the Kyubi mode.

 

I go back to the Taka vs. B fight again because B stated that he was bad at dispelling Genjutsu and that's why Gyuki dispelled it for him.

[Shashank95]

Seriously, i don't know why NH and SS fans claim Narusaku is dead ? If it was really dead, then in 631 Naruto could have told that Hinata was his girlfriend and not Sakura but that fantasy didn't happen. So when Sakura's tsundere side kicked in every jumped on the moment to ridicule Narusaku. Don't mean to disrespect anyone but that's a pathetic attempt.

[Hiraishin]

 
Yes, they are from VIZ. But the accuracy of the translation doesn't change my point, Sakura's profil is about her feelings for Naruto, while Sasuke's one is about his story with Sakura. That's what I wanted to point out.
I tried so many times to find the raw version of databooks; but I failed. Now, even the VIZ version of databook 3 isn't findable anymore. 

Oh I know, I was just saying. ^^ By the way, I'm really looking forward to your databook translations!

Edited by Hiraishin, 08 December 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[sushi.]

Seriously, i don't know why NH and SS fans claim Narusaku is dead ? If it was really dead, then in 631 Naruto could have told that Hinata was his girlfriend and not Sakura but that fantasy didn't happen. So when Sakura's tsundere side kicked in every jumped on the moment to ridicule Narusaku. Don't mean to disrespect anyone but that's a pathetic attempt.

Why are you scratching your head at opinions with no logic? If you're going to argue with someone, you need to have something in common with them; Both need to stop confusing speculation with canon material, know the difference between analyzing the plot and personal wishes, avoid selective reading+grasping at straws.. and so on. This is for NS fans and NH/SS fans alike. When you both possess these "requirements", the debate will be worth our time. Others are not worth yours or mine. Just ask for manga-backup for their claims and if they can't or if they twist it, you've just discovered an irrational fan. It's very easy.

 

When you wonder about these kinds of claims, you will sit there forever and find no answer. Because there is no answer within the manga.

 

Just wanted to share my two cents because the last few days the debate thread have been filled with irrational NH/SS arguments. I don't get it..the point. The debate easily turns into a fanbase discussion and how delusional they are, because the arguments are so bad it is hard to respond. There are better ones out there.

[Shashank95]

Why are you scratching your head at opinions with no logic? If you're going to argue with someone, you need to have something in common with them; Both need to stop confusing speculation with canon material, know the difference between analyzing the plot and personal wishes, avoid selective reading+grasping at straws.. and so on. This is for NS fans and NH/SS fans alike. When you both possess these "requirements", the debate will be worth our time. Others are not worth yours or mine. Just ask for manga-backup for their claims and if they can't or if they twist it, you've just discovered an irrational fan. It's very easy.
 
When you wonder about these kinds of claims, you will sit there forever and find no answer. Because there is no answer within the manga.
 
Just wanted to share my two cents because the last few days the debate thread have been filled with irrational NH/SS arguments. I don't get it..the point. The debate easily turns into a fanbase discussion and how delusional they are, because the arguments are so bad it is hard to respond. There are better ones out there.

sorry abt that. Not related to Narusaku but what do you guys think of Madara in the manga right now ?

[sushi.]

sorry abt that. Not related to Narusaku but what do you guys think of Madara in the manga right now ?

I have hope for him because Kishi is literally unable to do the same mistake he did with Obito. Basically the moral question that was never challenged or answered, and the never-ending chatting. The slow phasing can still be a problem, but considering he says 'this is the climax', I have hope for that too.

[Shashank95]

I have hope for him because Kishi is literally unable to do the same mistake he did with Obito. Basically the moral question that was never challenged or answered, and the never-ending chatting. The slow phasing can still be a problem, but considering he says 'this is the climax', I have hope for that too.

i don't know what it is with Kishi and over powered crazy uchihas, it always seems to me that everytime Naruto grows strong there's an even more powerful and equally crazy uchiha waiting for him around the corner. Did Kishi give any indication as to how much longer the manga will go on ? I read on facebook that kishi announced that the story is at it's climax. I don't know if it's the story or just the war. Your opinions people ?

[sushi.]

i don't know what it is with Kishi and over powered crazy uchihas, it always seems to me that everytime Naruto grows strong there's an even more powerful and equally crazy uchiha waiting for him around the corner. Did Kishi give any indication as to how much longer the manga will go on ? I read on facebook that kishi announced that the story is at it's climax. I don't know if it's the story or just the war. Your opinions people ?

It has to be the war, because there are so many other things to wrap up. Yamato, Orochimaru, Team 7 drama, and the potential of a political change in the ninja world. That'll be the real climax of the story.

[Shashank95]

It has to be the war, because there are so many other things to wrap up. Yamato, Orochimaru, Team 7 drama, and the potential of a political change in the ninja world. That'll be the real climax of the story.

it seems people have completely forgotten abt Yamato :-P is he taking part in the war ? I don't think i've seen him on the battlefield yet ? I haven't read the manga in a while.

[megi]

@redragon and 咲耶
whoops sorry being late and all
the translation for Sasuke's part isn't bad at all. Although there is a feeling that maybe it's "skewed" to an SS translation, I think it's due to the other things cluttered around it. Such as the bolded areas and and argument, makes the translation look more "biased" than it is. The "love" that is mentioned each time is Sakura's love she is giving to Sasuke of course, and I will say the translation does make it seem like Sasuke "could have" liked Sakura if he didn't turn to the dark side, but they are merely from interpretations from someone else. Since the translation is posted with all the bolded area, it seems like it's SS to me. Sakura and Naruto gave him positive things, but with promise of the gift of power he throws these away. I miss little Sasuke hahaha. Well, I am a tad annoyed at when they try to explain てくれる, because they only explain the grammar point with with their own interpretation in mind, so as Hiraishin put it, it is an over-analysis...based on half of a grammar point.
 
* don't mind editor's note arguments. They mean nothing, it doesn't bring anything to debate because they aren't canon.
 
When some of the Sakura translations for the databook was posted, I think some of the word choice wasn't good.
I've already translated (for Sakura) #1 a few pages ago. 
 

"She herself doesn't really understand her thoughts/feelings towards Naruto. She really likes Sasuke but, if you notice, she is also looking at Naruto. Right now, it doesn't seem to be love but, perhaps there maybe a chance!?"
 

 
databook #2. I actually think the translation that was posted is fine! credit to the translator.
 

 
Totally unreliable and full of baseless confidence is Naruto. But this Naruto becomes to Sakura someone she can rely on the most. The moment she acknowledges this, one can say her true development began.

 
databook #3 @ Hiraishin
It seems like databook #3 is the only one that has been translated by Viz? Is that correct? (Haha, I don't know)
Actually, it's something like "Since she was a child, Sakura yearned after and harbored an impression similar to love for Sasuke." (Or more literally, Sasuke was the one who Sakura...)But, I think your translation is right! Viz translation is also good, except for that part in the first sentence xD. Viz either seems to get it right or just change the words altogether haha.
credit to Hiraishin

"Since she was a child, Sakura yearned after and harbored an impression similar to love for Sasuke. Naruto was just an "annoying" boy who stood in the middle between Sakura and Sasuke and disturbed their relationship. But after completing many missions together with him, she looked back at the past and finally realized: when she was in trouble, when she was ready to give up on her life, the one who was always there, protecting her and encouraging her, was in fact that "annoying" boy, Naruto. What are her current feelings for Naruto...? Sakura still hasn't found an answer." 
 

 
and credit to Paptala for giving the links for databooks, thank you! and for 咲耶 to do the Sakura parts in Naruto's section! Have a good weekend everyone!

Edited by megi, 08 December 2013 - 03:17 AM.

[Shadow1275]

 

I think that the Taka vs. B fight was the answer to the Sharingan's control of the Biju, as Gyuki was able to near instantaneously dispel Sasuke's Genjutsu, and from what we've been shown how the Sharingan controls the Biju is with Genjutsu.

 

 

I think you forgot that every time Itachi placed Naruto under a Genjutsu was before Naruto befriended Kurama, of course Narutow as controlled by Itachi's Genjutsu, because he and Kurama were not even on speaking terms at the time.

 

 

I go back to the Taka vs. B fight again because B stated that he was bad at dispelling Genjutsu and that's why Gyuki dispelled it for him.

You make a lot of good points and now that I look back on it, I sort of skimmed through the B Taka fight so I never saw the part where Gyuki dispelled the genjutsu placed on B. You're right Genjutsu on Naruto won't work because Kurama would simply dispel it. The only thing that makes me scratch my head is if Sasuke decided to control the Kyubi instead of Naruto. Now, I'm not really convinced that it is genjutsu which is used to control the Biju, but for the sake of argument let's go with that belief.

 

Naruto knows how to dispel genjutsu, but he can't exactly do it. For example in the Itachi fight, he understands that he is within a genjutsu and that he needs to stop his chakra flow but even after doing so he fails to stop the illusion. This is also present with Naruto and Sasuke when Sasuke himself shuts down the Biju and Naruto is powerless. Now, even if Naruto is synchronized with Kurama it doesn't make a difference if he can't protect Kurama from the genjutsu.

[Shashank95]

You make a lot of good points and now that I look back on it, I sort of skimmed through the B Taka fight so I never saw the part where Gyuki dispelled the genjutsu placed on B. You're right Genjutsu on Naruto won't work because Kurama would simply dispel it. The only thing that makes me scratch my head is if Sasuke decided to control the Kyubi instead of Naruto. Now, I'm not really convinced that it is genjutsu which is used to control the Biju, but for the sake of argument let's go with that belief.
 
Naruto knows how to dispel genjutsu, but he can't exactly do it. For example in the Itachi fight, he understands that he is within a genjutsu and that he needs to stop his chakra flow but even after doing so he fails to stop the illusion. This is also present with Naruto and Sasuke when Sasuke himself shuts down the Biju and Naruto is powerless. Now, even if Naruto is synchronized with Kurama it doesn't make a difference if he can't protect Kurama from the genjutsu.

Ah but the main requirement for the sharingan to work is the eye contact, so what if Naruto fights like Gai does ? Reading the body movements without looking the opponent in the eye. With his sage mode and the kyuubi mode, his sensory skills are very good. May be he doesn't even need to open his eyes. This is just a speculation.

[咲耶姫]

I translated one of Sasuke's pages on databook 1, to see if the SS translations were biased or not

 

So, here it is:

孤独な心を支える仲間との出会い

Meeting with friends who support his lonely heart

 

それまで恋や友情に見向きもしなかったサスケは、ナルトやサクラと出会い、少しずつではあるが、仲間を受け入れ始める。

Sasuke who until now, ignored love and friendship, meeting Naruto and Sakura (among others persons), he began to accept friendship, little by little.

サスケにとってナルトは、いつの間にか互いの能力を高め合う良きライバルとなり、また大蛇丸の邪悪な呪印にのみ込まれんとするその心をサクラに救われたことも... 。

To Sasuke, Naruto, before knowing it, became a good rival with who he confronts his abilities, and still, this heart/mind has been saved by Sakura when it was being swallowed by Orochimaru’s evil mark.

 

仲間の存在が復讐に渦巻く荒涼たるサスケの心を和らげ、安らかな一時をもたらす日はくるのだろうか... !?

Sasuke’s friends’ existence softened his dreary heart which swirls around revenge, days he was taking a peaceful moment could come back...!?

 

Here is the SasuNaruto kiss :

がたくななサスケの心を、ナルトが甘酸っぱく、解きほぐす... !?

Naruto is bittersweet and relax Sasuke’s hard heart...!?

 

And there, Sakura saving Sasuke :

呪印の影響で競走するサスケを身を挺して鎮めるサクラ。サクラのサスケを想う心が、邪な力を包み込む。

Sakura who eases bravely Sasuke who’s racing by the seal’s effects. Sakura’s mind which thinks about Sasuke devours the evil power. 

 

There is just the last translation about Sakura that is unsure. I couldn't really read one kanji. So, I don't know if it's "Sasuke who's racing by the seal" or if it's another verb. 

Edited by 咲耶姫, 08 December 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[redragon88]

@Megi

 

Don't worry about late replies, take your time. We appreciate you doing this for us.

 

You mentioned that the translations did imply that Sasuke could've liked Sakura if he didn't become evil. So that's an implication that only happens unwillingly during the translation process? Or could you get the same meaning by reading the raw version?

 

Or were you saying it only looks SS when you highlight the bolded area, in other words, too much analyzing?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@Megi

 

Don't worry about late replies, take your time. We appreciate you doing this for us.

 

You mentioned that the translations did imply that Sasuke could've liked Sakura if he didn't become evil. So that's an implication that only happens unwillingly during the translation process? Or could you get the same meaning by reading the raw version?

 

Or were you saying it only looks SS when you highlight the bolded area, in other words, too much analyzing?

That depends on who is seeing that.

The databooks doesnt give any new information but only states what happened on the manga so far, looking at it, Sasuke did loved Sakura but it's the same love he felt for Naruto too, and it's shown when he told Naruto to pick up Sakura and leave.

Because he didnt wanted to lose people who were dear to him.
Does it means that he would have loved Sakura romantically talking about, the databook doesnt give this impression.

Because people often misinterpret love as only one type of it, specially SS and NH fans.

 

Sasuke managed to cut his bond with Sakura on her confession, but with Naruto it was different because despite his bond with Naruto being a bit stronger he didnt managed to cut his bond with Naruto because on the fight he acknowledged him as his best friend and to cut his bond with Naruto he had to kill him and he refused to.

During the shippuuden he showed his will to reject his bond with Naruto by giving other excuses like saying he didnt killed Naruto because of whatever excuse, later on the recent chapters, he's not rejecting it anymore but wants to get rid of it by killing Naruto.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 December 2013 - 02:32 PM.

[咲耶姫]

@Megi

 

Don't worry about late replies, take your time. We appreciate you doing this for us.

 

You mentioned that the translations did imply that Sasuke could've liked Sakura if he didn't become evil. So that's an implication that only happens unwillingly during the translation process? Or could you get the same meaning by reading the raw version?

 

Or were you saying it only looks SS when you highlight the bolded area, in other words, too much analyzing?

 

I think that Megi meant fan's interpretations in the translations were giving an impression of Sasuke liking Sakura if he didn't leave. Some of them, even gave an impression of him currently liking Sakura without knowing it. 

 

And I have to say that after translating it, I think fans are really over analysing those databook with all the bolded areas. Naruto and Sakura are both described as Sasuke's most important friends, which filled his lonely heart. At least, in my opinion. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
I think that Megi meant fan's interpretations in the translations were giving an impression of Sasuke liking Sakura if he didn't leave. Some of them, even gave an impression of him currently liking Sakura without knowing it. 
 
And I have to say that after translating it, I think fans are really over analysing those databook with all the bolded areas. Naruto and Sakura are both described as Sasuke's most important friends, which filled his lonely heart. At least, in my opinion. 

You got the right idea. As I said millions times before, it must be as straightforward as you can get to understand one direction, not ambiguous. Honestly, I think if it's taken ambiguous, then it must be friendship. Why is it that Sakura on Naruto is straightforward rather than ambiguous like other? Because those "ambigiuous interpretations" are no more than friendship until says otherwise. Sasuke should have at least an interpretation that reads "what is his feelings for her" rather than "Yes, that just happened."

To be honest, the endgame, disregarding the chance of no pairing conclusion, is clearly on NaruSaku and if you fight it, well I am tired and just say, "Whatever makes you happy."

[narulsaku]

That depends on who is seeing that.
The databooks doesnt give any new information but only states what happened on the manga so far, looking at it, Sasuke did loved Sakura but it's the same love he felt for Naruto too, and it's shown when he told Naruto to pick up Sakura and leave.
Because he didnt wanted to lose people who were dear to him.
Does it means that he would have loved Sakura romantically talking about, the databook doesnt give this impression.
Because people often misinterpret love as only one type of it, specially SS and NH fans.
 
Sasuke managed to cut his bond with Sakura on her confession, but with Naruto it was different because despite his bond with Naruto being a bit stronger he didnt managed to cut his bond with Naruto because on the fight he acknowledged him as his best friend and to cut his bond with Naruto he had to kill him and he refused to.
During the shippuuden he showed his will to reject his bond with Naruto by giving other excuses like saying he didnt killed Naruto because of whatever excuse, later on the recent chapters, he's not rejecting it anymore but wants to get rid of it by killing Naruto.

thought to join. So here we go again. Death of naruto haha. I agree with u my friend . But when did he actually said to pick up sakura and leave? When did he stated the reason why he didnt kill naruto? I dont remember.



And@shashank: sharingan doesnt need eye contact . Nlt every time

[Shashank95]

Didn't Sasuke regard his team as his family of sort before he went all curse real psycho on them ? I don't think Sasuke could have felt anymore than a brotherly affection for Sakura. Why else would he brush off her confession with just a thank you. That affection could a sibling one too.

[Shashank95]

thought to join. So here we go again. Death of naruto haha. I agree with u my friend . But when did he actually said to pick up sakura and leave? When did he stated the reason why he didnt kill naruto? I dont remember.
And@shashank: sharingan doesnt need eye contact . Nlt every time

damn, that's a buzz kill. Well i don't know the intricate mechanics that makes up that thieving eye. Frankly don't care. But if it does come to that, Naruto would have a really tough time with Sasuke.