19964 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

You are not adding anything to the current argument, you're just changing the topic while saying things that we are all doing at this point, what waiting to find out what will happen next and how the Manga will unfold.

Next time it will be kind if you at lease try to let us know that you're saying something off topic and not clearly shifting the topic, something you do a lot instead of adding your two sense.

Sorry if I sounded rude trust me is not my intention is just sometimes I wish you would add more to the discussions on the forums and not changing the current discussion or at lease let others know that what you're about to say is not related to what is currently being discussed.

And what's wrong with that?? the guy was just commenting how good the debate is going. If someone wants to redirect the thread to another topic, it's well within their right to do so. You can either response to it, or just stay on the previous topic. That's all.

Why cant he change the topic, you can still stay at your disussion with darkrerst right? So whats the problem?

Easy, guys. I know what all of you are trying to say. I appreciated the defense. That said I have no intention to change topic nor enter the discussion. I just want to reflect on how active it's going and it really got me intrigued. Again, that Tsubaki's post really got me rethinking. Yes, it's not hers, but she brought it up. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say.

[Don-kun]

PhenixElite and Codus N
If you notice I never stated that it was sometime wrong I even added that I wish he would more often add his two sense to a current discussion or at lease let us know that it's off topic, he has this tendency and is something I notice for a months now is almost like lets change the topic. (also I desperately want to know what are other opinions especially the ones who I like reading their post, when he post and is not related it just blows away my expectation from reading his opinion on the matter)
Like I said there is nothing wrong with changing the topic, just let us know that you're doing it, and like I said the only reason why I said something is because he does this a lot when I'm clearly expecting his opinion, that's all.

But even if Naruto rejects she should already get over him, if Sauske did nothing to her other than bad stuff why still loves him, Naruto is the guy that did all the good things for her, if Naruto changes to the good side of the force will not change the fact that she already realized that Naruto was the man who was at her side all the time, who encouraged her, her speech wasnt only because Naruto was a good guy but also she realized that he was the one who was at her side, who make her grow who give her encouragement who was responsible for the woman she have became.

And come with terms, i cant understand this anymore, she said that Sasuke wasnt a great man, she said that Sasuke wasnt the guy who encouraged her, that Sasuke wanst at her side all the time, what is left for him other than being a crush.
I do agree with you that she has to come with terms with her feelings, but she saw what is right in front of her and was still unable to have an answer, what type of stupid love is the one she have for Sasuke? it's like she has any reasons to love him.

Back with you.

Two things you need to focus on.
Kishimoto.
Gives Hinata a lot of panels showing why her feelings for Naruto are what they are at this moment.
With Sakura Kishi is not giving Sakura panel time while refusing to focus on her character and her feelings more.

So you cannot say that he is stupid since the Author himself refuse to give her the chance to reflex on her feelings for Sasuke and her possible feelings for Naruto, I'm the one who believes than when Kishi gives Sakura this chance to see how her feelings for Naruto makes her happy and question herself about what really attracts her to Sasuke it would be the end of SS since honestly speaking there is no rational way to believe that she will get that chance and still throw Naruto and his feelings under a Bus while she continues to embrace her irrational feelings for Sasuke.

Edited by Don-kun, 03 March 2013 - 03:08 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Back at you.

Two things you need to focus on.
Kishimoto.
Hinata gets a lot of panels showing why her feelings for Naruto are what they are at this moment.
With Sakura Kishi is not giving Sakura panel time while refusing to focus on her character and her feelings more.

So you cannot say that he is stupid since the Author himself refuse to give her the chance to reflex on her feelings for Sasuke and her possible feelings for Naruto, I'm the one who believes than when Kishi gives Sakura this chance to see how her feelings for Naruto makes her happy and question herself about what really attracts her to Sasuke it would be the end of SS since honestly speaking there is no rational way to believe that she will get that chance and still throw Naruto and his feelings under a Bus while she continues to embrace her irrational feelings for Sasuke.

Well first off, i dont care about Hinata there's no reasons for Naruto to stop loving Sakura since she only proved to him that he's more important and he didnt forgot about her on the war.

So going back to the discussion, i think she did a reflex about her feelings for Sasuke about Naruto she knows everything that Naruto did to her she said that on the confession that he was there for her when she needed the most and encouraged her all the time, she could not find anything good on her relationship with Sasuke other than being a crush, then it's reinforced again on 540 with Sasuke is not a great guy which she also said this on the confession arc it was the second time where she thought about Sasuke and she still loves him, ofc it's shown on a bad light again.
540 was the second time that kishi showed how irrational her feelings for Sasuke is, i just dont get why insist with it instead of having her to move on.
He pratically throw at the readers face that SasuSaku sucks hard, why not have her to move on now?

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 March 2013 - 03:08 PM.

[AzureWaters]

PhenixElite and Codus N
If you notice I never stated that it was sometime wrong I even added that I wish he would more often add his two sense to a current discussion or at lease let us know that it's off topic, he has this tendency and is something I notice for a months now is almost like lets change the topic.
Like I said there is nothing wrong with changing the topic, just let us know that you're doing it, and like I said the only reason why I said something is because he does this a lot.




Back at you.

Two things you need to focus on.
Kishimoto.
Hinata gets a lot of panels showing why her feelings for Naruto are what they are at this moment.
With Sakura Kishi is not giving Sakura panel time while refusing to focus on her character and her feelings more.

So you cannot say that he is stupid since the Author himself refuse to give her the chance to reflex on her feelings for Sasuke and her possible feelings for Naruto, I'm the one who believes than when Kishi gives Sakura this chance to see how her feelings for Naruto makes her happy and question herself about what really attracts her to Sasuke it would be the end of SS since honestly speaking there is no rational way to believe that she will get that chance and still throw Naruto and his feelings under a Bus while she continues to embrace her irrational feelings for Sasuke.

Speaking logically for a second here. Lets say Kishimoto does not want NaruSaku, for arguments sake. He would need to resolve Naruto's feelings first in order for that scenario to not happen. Focusing on NaruHina now would imply a shift to Naruto's feelings. If he's starting to show Naruto moving on from Sakura by making Hinata a romantic option, then Sakura herself wouldn't need to be in the position of throwing Naruto under the bus. As the issue is resolved on his end (he likes or is starting to like Hinata) than Sakura could stick by Sasuke without any issues of outside conflict. The only thing that would get in her way would be Sasuke himself.

That's one way NH/SS could counter that scenario of Sakura choosing between Naruto and Sasuke.

[ramenanmitsu]

@Codus N
I think that if you read ramenanmitsu post again, you will notice that he never imply what you stated in your post in fact he said that NH scene will not help Sakura to be honest about her feelings for him at all, the idea of losing Naruto is what may lead her to come to terms with her real feelings for him if she really loves him that way.

The fact that Sakura has not question Naruto's decision to die along side Sasuke is what leads me to believe that it might happen in the future and that might be the moment they're finally honest with each other.

Thanks for clarifying it for me. You got that right

@the bolded
Like the OVA, where Sakura holds Naruto crying, thinking that he's dead? I also think, something like that will quite possibly happen in canon

Hmm, I figure he simply responded to the topic of whether Sakura will be jealous of Hinata. That's why I responded that way. To be honest, I don't know If I want that scenario to happen. I mean, we already had the scene where she learns that Naruto will die if he gets captured.

What I wanted to say is that, even if we had the scene where Naruto was near death, Sakura never really thought Naruto would die. She had complete faith in him that he would be the victor and come out alive. That's why she doesn't know what it's really like to lose Naruto. And her feelings are so confused, it would take Naruto's death(=Sakura believing Naruto is gone) to clear it up.

But to be honest, I agree with you. I also don't want to read a scenario where Naruto is near death and Sakura cries AGAIN Not to mention, this kind of scenario is overused.

[Don-kun]

Well first off, i dont care about Hinata there's no reasons for Naruto to stop loving Sakura since she only proved to him that he's more important and he didnt forgot about her on the war.

So going back to the discussion, i think she did a reflex about her feelings for Sasuke about Naruto she knows everything that Naruto did to her she said that on the confession that he was there for her when she needed the most and encouraged her all the time, she could not find anything good on her relationship with Sasuke other than being a crush, then it's reinforced again on 540 with Sasuke is not a great guy which she also said this on the confession arc it was the second time where she thought about Sasuke and she still loves him, ofc it's shown on a bad light again.
540 was the second time that kishi showed how irrational her feelings for Sasuke is, i just dont get why insist with it instead of having her to move on.
He pratically throw at the readers face that SasuSaku sucks hard, why not have her to move on now?

Yeah but you are missing something here, Sakura gives reasons for why she would fall in love with Naruto but Naruto took it has I'm choosing you because Sasuke is not an option, even when we all know that she still feels something for Sasuke and she has not come to term with those feelings yet.

And the Other important fact that you are missing is that Sakura thought about Sasuke because she was lead to do so by a third party AKA love letter nin, while her confession was also lead by another third party in this case Sai.

In other words we need to wait for a Sakura reflection of her feelings for the the two but this time being lead by Sakura Haruno and not a third party, when we get that moment and she still choose Sasuke them your statement will clearly apply here, it seems to me that Kishi clearly avoiding this scenario and now I strongly starting to believe that is not for money or losing readers the guy clearly loves creating doubts on his readers.
Is like a personal fun for him.
With characters Sasuke and Itachi are his favorite, Naruto is the one he relates with the most and with pairing NaruSaku seems as his pairing of choice while NaruSasu bromance is what he enjoy the most.


Edit to avoid double post:

Speaking logically for a second here. Lets say Kishimoto does not want NaruSaku, for arguments sake. He would need to resolve Naruto's feelings first in order for that scenario to not happen. Focusing on NaruHina now would imply a shift to Naruto's feelings. If he's starting to show Naruto moving on from Sakura by making Hinata a romantic option, then Sakura herself wouldn't need to be in the position of throwing Naruto under the bus. As the issue is resolved on his end (he likes or is starting to like Hinata) than Sakura could stick by Sasuke without any issues of outside conflict. The only thing that would get in her way would be Sasuke himself.

That's one way NH/SS could counter that scenario of Sakura choosing between Naruto and Sasuke.

I hope that I don't double post.

I mention this in the past, Sakura feelings for Sasuke are fact but it was also imply that she strongly feels something for Naruto, the argument you're using are personal interpretation vs manga fact.
The Manga imply that they could be a Sakura>>>>Naruto so having her admit that she feels genuine love for him is not out of the blue since it was implied in the past.

The Manga has not stated that Naruto feels any romantic affection for Hinata is more has a comrade level and a good friend thing going on between the two while he keep the person Naruto loves away from him plus the fact that Naruto clearly prioritizes Sakura has one of his closes bond while she is the only one has being shown to be who Naruto loves help my case far more than what it helps yours.

Sasuke>>>>Sakura, do I really need to go there?

The fact is that Sakura was the only one who wanted to do something for the person who loves her speaks a lot, Sakura has given indication that they could be something and they are a lot off things needs to be unfolds between them (Confession, bench scene, Naruto confession, and his sacrifice for her feeling are some examples) those are also other fact that help my case over your scenario.
If you notice I even mention that Sakura accepting her feelings for Naruto or even Sakura sudden realization of her feelings for the blond is far more believable than Naruto suddenly saying that he loves Hinata or Sasuke saying that he loves Sakura. NH and SS are still a possibility but realistically speaking NS goes far more close to the story itself while the Authors will not be seeing like if he is forcing a scenarios that was never develop in the story.

Edited by Don-kun, 03 March 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[redragon88]

I just don't understand why we're supposed to support Naruto in all of his struggles, but when it comes to his love we should encourage him to give up. That's the thing that confuses me if Kishi really does make him shift his love to Hinata.

That would imply his feelings for Sakura were meant to be something to overcome, but until this day we have seen no indication that Naruto is better off not loving Sakura. We never see anything that implies his feelings for her are a bad thing, that they are a hindrance to his character. The only one that suffers from that is Sakura. In turn we are shown that Naruto's feelings for Sakura are so strong that he puts her happiness above all else.

I just don't know how the people can see the way feelings have developed in this series and yet not want Naruto to achieve the happy end he struggles for. He is the main character, this is his story, so his fights and struggle are where the core of it all is. And I'll be even more confused at how Kishimoto chose to ignore that concept that he so carefully build up if he doesn't go through with it.

More and more it seems to me that the preference of NH/SS comes not much from the understanding of the story but simply because it's the personal taste of a reader. And since they prefer that pairing so much they'll look for any clue that might convince them of the possibility of it happening. It's all about forcing your mind into thinking that what you desire out of preference is also what the author has developed or you believe is going to develop. That personal desire makes you see things differently and that convinces yourself that Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never a big deal to begin with, just some annoying bother that brought him down.

NS has the build up of feelings, is never shown that those feelings are a bad thing for Naruto, and coincides with the wish to support Naruto for his happy ending. It's difficult to believe that when Sakura is the one implied to have feelings for Naruto and when Naruto has never showing any special fondness towards Hinata (seriously, look at his face when he thanks her in 615, he's completely neutral towards her), that it's supposed to be Naruto who makes the change.

People should look less at each individual moment and look at the overall. What looks more natural? 1) For Sakura to finally fall for Naruto as has been slowly developed. 2) For Naruto to suddenly realize new found feelings because of one big moment with Hinata even thought there was never any indication beforehand he could see her that way.

To anyone that's not biased I'm pretty sure they would choose the first one. Many people were so happy with 615 because it seems that Naruto finally seemed to return some affection towards Hinata (even though that's pretty much unclear right now). So many people were waiting for something like that to happen for such a long time that they basically screamed "FINALLY!", but realistically a proper reaction should be more like "Now near the end Naruto finally starts with Hinata? Sakura has been doing that with Naruto since the beginning of Part 2.".

Besides, at the end of the day Team 7, plus Iruka, is Naruto's most important bond. I'm of the believe that Naruto's true love should also be one of those important bonds. We see how much of a bond did Minato and Kushina had, so the idea is not strange at all. Those important bonds Naruto forms should happen as the story progresses, not just near the end. If Hinata suddenly became as important in Naruto's mind as Team 7 is it just feels like something very much forced. That's why Naruto's love interest should be someone which he has formed and maintained a very strong bond with throughout the series, not just the end, and the only person filling that prerequisite is Sakura.

Whew, I feel plenty better after writing that. Anyone wants to share their thoughts on my post?

[bthug]

I just don't understand why we're supposed to support Naruto in all of his struggles, but when it comes to his love we should encourage him to give up. That's the thing that confuses me if Kishi really does make him shift his love to Hinata.

That would imply his feelings for Sakura were meant to be something to overcome, but until this day we have seen no indication that Naruto is better off not loving Sakura. We never see anything that implies his feelings for her are a bad thing, that they are a hindrance to his character. The only one that suffers from that is Sakura. In turn we are shown that Naruto's feelings for Sakura are so strong that he puts her happiness above all else.

I just don't know how the people can see the way feelings have developed in this series and yet not want Naruto to achieve the happy end he struggles for. He is the main character, this is his story, so his fights and struggle are where the core of it all is. And I'll be even more confused at how Kishimoto chose to ignore that concept that he so carefully build up if he doesn't go through with it.

More and more it seems to me that the preference of NH/SS comes not much from the understanding of the story but simply because it's the personal taste of a reader. And since they prefer that pairing so much they'll look for any clue that might convince them of the possibility of it happening. It's all about forcing your mind into thinking that what you desire out of preference is also what the author has developed or you believe is going to develop. That personal desire makes you see things differently and that convinces yourself that Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never a big deal to begin with, just some annoying bother that brought him down.

NS has the build up of feelings, is never shown that those feelings are a bad thing for Naruto, and coincides with the wish to support Naruto for his happy ending. It's difficult to believe that when Sakura is the one implied to have feelings for Naruto and when Naruto has never showing any special fondness towards Hinata (seriously, look at his face when he thanks her in 615, he's completely neutral towards her), that it's supposed to be Naruto who makes the change.

People should look less at each individual moment and look at the overall. What looks more natural? 1) For Sakura to finally fall for Naruto as has been slowly developed. 2) For Naruto to suddenly realize new found feelings because of one big moment with Hinata even thought there was never any indication beforehand he could see her that way.

To anyone that's not biased I'm pretty sure they would choose the first one. Many people were so happy with 615 because it seems that Naruto finally seemed to return some affection towards Hinata (even though that's pretty much unclear right now). So many people were waiting for something like that to happen for such a long time that they basically screamed "FINALLY!", but realistically a proper reaction should be more like "Now near the end Naruto finally starts with Hinata? Sakura has been doing that with Naruto since the beginning of Part 2.".

Besides, at the end of the day Team 7, plus Iruka, is Naruto's most important bond. I'm of the believe that Naruto's true love should also be one of those important bonds. We see how much of a bond did Minato and Kushina had, so the idea is not strange at all. Those important bonds Naruto forms should happen as the story progresses, not just near the end. If Hinata suddenly became as important in Naruto's mind as Team 7 is it just feels like something very much forced. That's why Naruto's love interest should be someone which he has formed and maintained a very strong bond with throughout the series, not just the end, and the only person filling that prerequisite is Sakura.

Whew, I feel plenty better after writing that. Anyone wants to share their thoughts on my post?

Well written and good points.
At this pt if NaruSaku doesn't happen, i'll chop off my balls

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah but you are missing something here, Sakura gives reasons for why she would fall in love with Naruto but Naruto took it has I'm choosing you because Sasuke is not an option, even when we all know that she still feels something for Sasuke and she has not come to term with those feelings yet.

And the Other important fact that you are missing is that Sakura thought about Sasuke because she was lead to do so by a third party AKA love letter nin, while her confession was also lead by another third party in this case Sai.

In other words we need to wait for a Sakura reflection of her feelings for the the two but this time being lead by Sakura Haruno and not a third party, when we get that moment and she still choose Sasuke them your statement will clearly apply here, it seems to me that Kishi clearly avoiding this scenario and now I strongly starting to believe that is not for money or losing readers the guy clearly loves creating doubts on his readers.
Is like a personal fun for him.
With characters Sasuke and Itachi are his favorite, Naruto is the one he relates with the most and with pairing NaruSaku seems as his pairing of choice while NaruSasu bromance is what he enjoy the most.

I understand this i know that it's bad for her to love Naruto because of status but at least she should already get over Sasuke afer realizing all of this which she realized on the confession.
And you forgot the point of my post.
She realized Naruto was way better than Sasuke, Ofc Naruto would reject because of her love for Saske and he didnt believe that she would get over it, Naruto on that confession always thought she would never love him, this is even stated of how he got surprised when he found out she was doing that for him if he knew it dont you think he would accept? then he was sad and his mental image of sakura being shattered.

Naruto believed that she was unable to be affective towards him, Hug = surprised reaction, feeding scene = surprised reaction , I love you = surprised reaction.
it's kinda obvious.

I'm saying is based on those points that Sakura said and which was true, she pratically had any reasons to keep loving Sasuke she might not love Naruto but one thing for sure is that it's completely irrational for her to keep her love for Sasuke when she said that the one who did all the good things for her was another person Naruto.
And then 540 is the same thing as the confession when she said Sasuke only do bad stuff, so it's like the same thing over and over again, if she's unable to move on from Sasuke i cant think on anything other than autism.

This i'll dont even take on consideration the part that she pratically says that does not deserve naruto's love that was a bad joke from kishimoto.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 March 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[HauntedCake]

I just don't understand why we're supposed to support Naruto in all of his struggles, but when it comes to his love we should encourage him to give up. That's the thing that confuses me if Kishi really does make him shift his love to Hinata.

That would imply his feelings for Sakura were meant to be something to overcome, but until this day we have seen no indication that Naruto is better off not loving Sakura. We never see anything that implies his feelings for her are a bad thing, that they are a hindrance to his character. The only one that suffers from that is Sakura. In turn we are shown that Naruto's feelings for Sakura are so strong that he puts her happiness above all else.

I just don't know how the people can see the way feelings have developed in this series and yet not want Naruto to achieve the happy end he struggles for. He is the main character, this is his story, so his fights and struggle are where the core of it all is. And I'll be even more confused at how Kishimoto chose to ignore that concept that he so carefully build up if he doesn't go through with it.

More and more it seems to me that the preference of NH/SS comes not much from the understanding of the story but simply because it's the personal taste of a reader. And since they prefer that pairing so much they'll look for any clue that might convince them of the possibility of it happening. It's all about forcing your mind into thinking that what you desire out of preference is also what the author has developed or you believe is going to develop. That personal desire makes you see things differently and that convinces yourself that Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never a big deal to begin with, just some annoying bother that brought him down.

NS has the build up of feelings, is never shown that those feelings are a bad thing for Naruto, and coincides with the wish to support Naruto for his happy ending. It's difficult to believe that when Sakura is the one implied to have feelings for Naruto and when Naruto has never showing any special fondness towards Hinata (seriously, look at his face when he thanks her in 615, he's completely neutral towards her), that it's supposed to be Naruto who makes the change.

People should look less at each individual moment and look at the overall. What looks more natural? 1) For Sakura to finally fall for Naruto as has been slowly developed. 2) For Naruto to suddenly realize new found feelings because of one big moment with Hinata even thought there was never any indication beforehand he could see her that way.

To anyone that's not biased I'm pretty sure they would choose the first one. Many people were so happy with 615 because it seems that Naruto finally seemed to return some affection towards Hinata (even though that's pretty much unclear right now). So many people were waiting for something like that to happen for such a long time that they basically screamed "FINALLY!", but realistically a proper reaction should be more like "Now near the end Naruto finally starts with Hinata? Sakura has been doing that with Naruto since the beginning of Part 2.".

Besides, at the end of the day Team 7, plus Iruka, is Naruto's most important bond. I'm of the believe that Naruto's true love should also be one of those important bonds. We see how much of a bond did Minato and Kushina had, so the idea is not strange at all. Those important bonds Naruto forms should happen as the story progresses, not just near the end. If Hinata suddenly became as important in Naruto's mind as Team 7 is it just feels like something very much forced. That's why Naruto's love interest should be someone which he has formed and maintained a very strong bond with throughout the series, not just the end, and the only person filling that prerequisite is Sakura.

Whew, I feel plenty better after writing that. Anyone wants to share their thoughts on my post?

This. Agreed

@Darkrerst

This i'll dont even take on consideration the part that she pratically says that does not deserve naruto's love that was a bad joke from kishimoto.

What do you mean by this?

Edited by HauntedCake, 03 March 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[T XD]

I just don't understand why we're supposed to support Naruto in all of his struggles, but when it comes to his love we should encourage him to give up. That's the thing that confuses me if Kishi really does make him shift his love to Hinata.

That would imply his feelings for Sakura were meant to be something to overcome, but until this day we have seen no indication that Naruto is better off not loving Sakura. We never see anything that implies his feelings for her are a bad thing, that they are a hindrance to his character. The only one that suffers from that is Sakura. In turn we are shown that Naruto's feelings for Sakura are so strong that he puts her happiness above all else.

I just don't know how the people can see the way feelings have developed in this series and yet not want Naruto to achieve the happy end he struggles for. He is the main character, this is his story, so his fights and struggle are where the core of it all is. And I'll be even more confused at how Kishimoto chose to ignore that concept that he so carefully build up if he doesn't go through with it.

More and more it seems to me that the preference of NH/SS comes not much from the understanding of the story but simply because it's the personal taste of a reader. And since they prefer that pairing so much they'll look for any clue that might convince them of the possibility of it happening. It's all about forcing your mind into thinking that what you desire out of preference is also what the author has developed or you believe is going to develop. That personal desire makes you see things differently and that convinces yourself that Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never a big deal to begin with, just some annoying bother that brought him down.

NS has the build up of feelings, is never shown that those feelings are a bad thing for Naruto, and coincides with the wish to support Naruto for his happy ending. It's difficult to believe that when Sakura is the one implied to have feelings for Naruto and when Naruto has never showing any special fondness towards Hinata (seriously, look at his face when he thanks her in 615, he's completely neutral towards her), that it's supposed to be Naruto who makes the change.

People should look less at each individual moment and look at the overall. What looks more natural? 1) For Sakura to finally fall for Naruto as has been slowly developed. 2) For Naruto to suddenly realize new found feelings because of one big moment with Hinata even thought there was never any indication beforehand he could see her that way.

To anyone that's not biased I'm pretty sure they would choose the first one. Many people were so happy with 615 because it seems that Naruto finally seemed to return some affection towards Hinata (even though that's pretty much unclear right now). So many people were waiting for something like that to happen for such a long time that they basically screamed "FINALLY!", but realistically a proper reaction should be more like "Now near the end Naruto finally starts with Hinata? Sakura has been doing that with Naruto since the beginning of Part 2.".

Besides, at the end of the day Team 7, plus Iruka, is Naruto's most important bond. I'm of the believe that Naruto's true love should also be one of those important bonds. We see how much of a bond did Minato and Kushina had, so the idea is not strange at all. Those important bonds Naruto forms should happen as the story progresses, not just near the end. If Hinata suddenly became as important in Naruto's mind as Team 7 is it just feels like something very much forced. That's why Naruto's love interest should be someone which he has formed and maintained a very strong bond with throughout the series, not just the end, and the only person filling that prerequisite is Sakura.

Whew, I feel plenty better after writing that. Anyone wants to share their thoughts on my post?

That's the thing of why I always see myself wondering about some people that don't support Naruto, the main protagonist, on his efforts to achieve what he wants !

So, yeah, it really is just a personal taste and searching for anything to plaster it no matter how weak it is. Plus, the overall thing is really hard to see when someone tries to search for anything to support their personal taste. I don't expect a change unless someone pointed out and the person at least tries to see the overall.

Edited by T XD, 03 March 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[Sojobo]

That's not what I meant. Sakura does and has questioned her feelings for Naruto before, I'm sure of it.

Yep she did it in the Zabuza fight.
And after that they is always some ambiguity in her feelings for him.

It's kind of funny. When I picture this scene, I always see this dialogue:

Sakura: "I don't deserve you, Naruto! All I ever do his hurt you or screw up somehow!"
Naruto (*shakes head*): "No, you got it completely wrong. I don't deserve you, Sakura-chan! All you ever do is nice things for me. You're always there when I need someone."
Sakura: "You of all people are telling that to me! You're joking, right? When I always hurt you because of Sasuke-kun? You're so wrong on this."
Naruto: "I broke the promise ... I promised you I would bring him back and then I failed. How couldI say something and then not do it? That's why."

Yep.
In my point of view, love isn't a matter of "deserve". Naruto and Sakura are completely wrong about that :

Naruto : How can I, a guy like who can't even keep his promises.
Sakura : He must be baka to love someone like me.

[Don-kun]

@xxRomanceGirlxx
Sorry but I kind of forget that Sakura part in the Zabuza arc, where she start asking her self what was does feelings, shame on me since that was always one of my argument when I used to debate against NH and SS fans.

I just don't understand why we're supposed to support Naruto in all of his struggles, but when it comes to his love we should encourage him to give up. That's the thing that confuses me if Kishi really does make him shift his love to Hinata.

That would imply his feelings for Sakura were meant to be something to overcome, but until this day we have seen no indication that Naruto is better off not loving Sakura. We never see anything that implies his feelings for her are a bad thing, that they are a hindrance to his character. The only one that suffers from that is Sakura. In turn we are shown that Naruto's feelings for Sakura are so strong that he puts her happiness above all else.

I just don't know how the people can see the way feelings have developed in this series and yet not want Naruto to achieve the happy end he struggles for. He is the main character, this is his story, so his fights and struggle are where the core of it all is. And I'll be even more confused at how Kishimoto chose to ignore that concept that he so carefully build up if he doesn't go through with it.

More and more it seems to me that the preference of NH/SS comes not much from the understanding of the story but simply because it's the personal taste of a reader. And since they prefer that pairing so much they'll look for any clue that might convince them of the possibility of it happening. It's all about forcing your mind into thinking that what you desire out of preference is also what the author has developed or you believe is going to develop. That personal desire makes you see things differently and that convinces yourself that Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never a big deal to begin with, just some annoying bother that brought him down.

NS has the build up of feelings, is never shown that those feelings are a bad thing for Naruto, and coincides with the wish to support Naruto for his happy ending. It's difficult to believe that when Sakura is the one implied to have feelings for Naruto and when Naruto has never showing any special fondness towards Hinata (seriously, look at his face when he thanks her in 615, he's completely neutral towards her), that it's supposed to be Naruto who makes the change.

People should look less at each individual moment and look at the overall. What looks more natural? 1) For Sakura to finally fall for Naruto as has been slowly developed. 2) For Naruto to suddenly realize new found feelings because of one big moment with Hinata even thought there was never any indication beforehand he could see her that way.

To anyone that's not biased I'm pretty sure they would choose the first one. Many people were so happy with 615 because it seems that Naruto finally seemed to return some affection towards Hinata (even though that's pretty much unclear right now). So many people were waiting for something like that to happen for such a long time that they basically screamed "FINALLY!", but realistically a proper reaction should be more like "Now near the end Naruto finally starts with Hinata? Sakura has been doing that with Naruto since the beginning of Part 2.".

Besides, at the end of the day Team 7, plus Iruka, is Naruto's most important bond. I'm of the believe that Naruto's true love should also be one of those important bonds. We see how much of a bond did Minato and Kushina had, so the idea is not strange at all. Those important bonds Naruto forms should happen as the story progresses, not just near the end. If Hinata suddenly became as important in Naruto's mind as Team 7 is it just feels like something very much forced. That's why Naruto's love interest should be someone which he has formed and maintained a very strong bond with throughout the series, not just the end, and the only person filling that prerequisite is Sakura.

Whew, I feel plenty better after writing that. Anyone wants to share their thoughts on my post?

I completely agree with what you said here, it's clear like a Cristal water that people prioritize what they like over what is currently going on to a point where they' completely blind them self from all logic that goes against what they want to believe.

Look at 615 and four clear example of what I meant, Hinata give a special speech to Naruto but she stated that everyone believes in him but she never gave him the understanding that was also why she loves him, Naruto never displayed any special affection or any sign of love in what suppose to be one of NH biggest moment, Hinata was clearly standing up this time equal to Naruto, the fact that she said that after the war she will stop chasing him and something that everyone seems to ignore was the fact that Kishi didn't need to add Sakura's face reaction to that scene even when it's not 100% sure that it was what created that reaction it's the most obvious assumption.

Edited by Don-kun, 03 March 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[Musicmanoful]

I just don't understand why we're supposed to support Naruto in all of his struggles, but when it comes to his love we should encourage him to give up. That's the thing that confuses me if Kishi really does make him shift his love to Hinata.

That would imply his feelings for Sakura were meant to be something to overcome, but until this day we have seen no indication that Naruto is better off not loving Sakura. We never see anything that implies his feelings for her are a bad thing, that they are a hindrance to his character. The only one that suffers from that is Sakura. In turn we are shown that Naruto's feelings for Sakura are so strong that he puts her happiness above all else.

I just don't know how the people can see the way feelings have developed in this series and yet not want Naruto to achieve the happy end he struggles for. He is the main character, this is his story, so his fights and struggle are where the core of it all is. And I'll be even more confused at how Kishimoto chose to ignore that concept that he so carefully build up if he doesn't go through with it.

More and more it seems to me that the preference of NH/SS comes not much from the understanding of the story but simply because it's the personal taste of a reader. And since they prefer that pairing so much they'll look for any clue that might convince them of the possibility of it happening. It's all about forcing your mind into thinking that what you desire out of preference is also what the author has developed or you believe is going to develop. That personal desire makes you see things differently and that convinces yourself that Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never a big deal to begin with, just some annoying bother that brought him down.

NS has the build up of feelings, is never shown that those feelings are a bad thing for Naruto, and coincides with the wish to support Naruto for his happy ending. It's difficult to believe that when Sakura is the one implied to have feelings for Naruto and when Naruto has never showing any special fondness towards Hinata (seriously, look at his face when he thanks her in 615, he's completely neutral towards her), that it's supposed to be Naruto who makes the change.

People should look less at each individual moment and look at the overall. What looks more natural? 1) For Sakura to finally fall for Naruto as has been slowly developed. 2) For Naruto to suddenly realize new found feelings because of one big moment with Hinata even thought there was never any indication beforehand he could see her that way.

To anyone that's not biased I'm pretty sure they would choose the first one. Many people were so happy with 615 because it seems that Naruto finally seemed to return some affection towards Hinata (even though that's pretty much unclear right now). So many people were waiting for something like that to happen for such a long time that they basically screamed "FINALLY!", but realistically a proper reaction should be more like "Now near the end Naruto finally starts with Hinata? Sakura has been doing that with Naruto since the beginning of Part 2.".

Besides, at the end of the day Team 7, plus Iruka, is Naruto's most important bond. I'm of the believe that Naruto's true love should also be one of those important bonds. We see how much of a bond did Minato and Kushina had, so the idea is not strange at all. Those important bonds Naruto forms should happen as the story progresses, not just near the end. If Hinata suddenly became as important in Naruto's mind as Team 7 is it just feels like something very much forced. That's why Naruto's love interest should be someone which he has formed and maintained a very strong bond with throughout the series, not just the end, and the only person filling that prerequisite is Sakura.

Whew, I feel plenty better after writing that. Anyone wants to share their thoughts on my post?

Great points.

I agree that if we do ask some non-biased fans about the pairings, they would choose narusaku. Every single fandom tries to find evidence for their pairing but Naruhina fans work even harder to convince themselves that the manga is going in their favor.

I also think that if kishimoto ever wanted NH to happen, he would of already started to develop Naruto's feelings for Hinata. IF we did see some sort of indication of naruto liking Hinata then I would think that NS might be in trouble. But the thing is, there was none at all. This makes me believe that kishimoto never intended to have NH happen. All the development that kishi worked on throughout the whole story would just be wasted and would make him look like a bad writer.

About the bonds, you couldn't have said it better. Naruto's bond with Sakura, in my opinion, it the strongest. They are always seen together and working with each other. In order to maintain a good relationship you need to have a great understanding of the other person. I can easily say that Naruto's personality does not fit with Hinata. I'm pretty sure that all conversations would be like this:

Naruto: Hey Hinata!
Hinata: oh! N-Naruto kun-n (blushes)
Naruto: Huh? Is something wrong Hinata, you don't look ok
Hinata: (thinking to herself) *wow this is the third time he talked to me!* (faints)

Also, they just don't know each other at all.

When Naruto is with Sakura he is HAPPY, the same goes with Sakura. They can both be themselves when they are with each other. That's what I love with their relationship. Man, I hate typing on my iPad, fingers are cramping.

[T XD]

I completely agree with what you said here, it's clear like a Cristal water that people prioritize what they like over what is currently going on to a point where they' completely blind them self from all logic that goes against what they want to believe.

Look at 615 and four clear example of what I meant, Hinata give a special speech to Naruto but she stated that everyone believes in him but she never gave him the understanding that was also why she loves him, Naruto never displayed any special affection or any sign of love in what suppose to be one of NH biggest moment, Hinata was clearly standing up this time equal to Naruto, the fact that she said that after the war she will stop chasing him and something that everyone seems to ignore was the fact that Kishi didn't need to add Sakura's face reaction to that scene even when it's not 100% sure that it was what created that reaction it's the most obvious assumption.

Yup. Plus, the hand holding on its own is mainly what got to some. It's like " Naruto and Hinata are holding hands, yay, it's something that will change everything ". They looked at that only, and that what got the good feed for them.

Edited by T XD, 03 March 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[Baguette]

I just don't understand why we're supposed to support Naruto in all of his struggles, but when it comes to his love we should encourage him to give up. That's the thing that confuses me if Kishi really does make him shift his love to Hinata.

That would imply his feelings for Sakura were meant to be something to overcome, but until this day we have seen no indication that Naruto is better off not loving Sakura. We never see anything that implies his feelings for her are a bad thing, that they are a hindrance to his character. The only one that suffers from that is Sakura. In turn we are shown that Naruto's feelings for Sakura are so strong that he puts her happiness above all else.

I just don't know how the people can see the way feelings have developed in this series and yet not want Naruto to achieve the happy end he struggles for. He is the main character, this is his story, so his fights and struggle are where the core of it all is. And I'll be even more confused at how Kishimoto chose to ignore that concept that he so carefully build up if he doesn't go through with it.

What I hear being said sometimes is that his love for Sakura is a bad thing. Naruto keeps his own feelings bottled up inside in order to make Sakura happy, and as Sai said it weighs heavily upon him. Sakura is inadvertently causing him a lot of pain, and when she finds out about it, she is guilt tripped into confessing to Naruto in an effort to rid him of his burden, even though she doesn't actually love him romantically. However, the way she goes by her confession is deceitful and almost patronizing.
Stating that she has fallen in love with him because he was there in place of Sasuke, and that unlike Sasuke he is a hero rather than a criminal, made her seem like the shallow type of person who picks out who she wants based on their status and popularity. This generated even more hate for Sakura amongst those who dislike her, and I think that's part of the reason people don't support Naruto's romantic endeavors- they just don't like Sakura.

More and more it seems to me that the preference of NH/SS comes not much from the understanding of the story but simply because it's the personal taste of a reader. And since they prefer that pairing so much they'll look for any clue that might convince them of the possibility of it happening. It's all about forcing your mind into thinking that what you desire out of preference is also what the author has developed or you believe is going to develop. That personal desire makes you see things differently and that convinces yourself that Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never a big deal to begin with, just some annoying bother that brought him down.

NS has the build up of feelings, is never shown that those feelings are a bad thing for Naruto, and coincides with the wish to support Naruto for his happy ending. It's difficult to believe that when Sakura is the one implied to have feelings for Naruto and when Naruto has never showing any special fondness towards Hinata (seriously, look at his face when he thanks her in 615, he's completely neutral towards her), that it's supposed to be Naruto who makes the change.

People should look less at each individual moment and look at the overall. What looks more natural? 1) For Sakura to finally fall for Naruto as has been slowly developed. 2) For Naruto to suddenly realize new found feelings because of one big moment with Hinata even thought there was never any indication beforehand he could see her that way.

To anyone that's not biased I'm pretty sure they would choose the first one. Many people were so happy with 615 because it seems that Naruto finally seemed to return some affection towards Hinata (even though that's pretty much unclear right now). So many people were waiting for something like that to happen for such a long time that they basically screamed "FINALLY!", but realistically a proper reaction should be more like "Now near the end Naruto finally starts with Hinata? Sakura has been doing that with Naruto since the beginning of Part 2.".

You say other people are biased and that they tend to interpret things in a way that supports their own views, but to be fair, aren't we doing the same thing here?
Bold: this is a good example of that. Regardless of whether or not Naruto actually does act neutrally towards her, you choose to interpret the scene in such a way that confirms your point of view.

Besides, at the end of the day Team 7, plus Iruka, is Naruto's most important bond. I'm of the believe that Naruto's true love should also be one of those important bonds. We see how much of a bond did Minato and Kushina had, so the idea is not strange at all. Those important bonds Naruto forms should happen as the story progresses, not just near the end. If Hinata suddenly became as important in Naruto's mind as Team 7 is it just feels like something very much forced. That's why Naruto's love interest should be someone which he has formed and maintained a very strong bond with throughout the series, not just the end, and the only person filling that prerequisite is Sakura.

I'm sure Harry's bond with Hermione was stronger, but in the end he still randomly fell in love with and married Ginny. Yes I brought that up again

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You say other people are biased and that they tend to interpret things in a way that supports their own views, but to be fair, aren't we doing the same thing here?
Bold: this is a good example of that. Regardless of whether or not Naruto actually does act neutrally towards her, you choose to interpret the scene in such a way that confirms your point of view.



I'm sure Harry's bond with Hermione was stronger, but in the end he still randomly fell in love with and married Ginny. Yes I brought that up again

But he never had romantic intentions towards hermione...

About the rest.

I never see a NH fan saying that Hinata has flaws almost all of them says that she's perfect, and her shy attitude is more of a good trait than bad sadly "Crusader Kings II" thinks otherwise i kittening hate SHY knights.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 March 2013 - 05:25 PM.

[Baguette]

But he never had romantic intentions towards hermione...

I know. I was trolling in that last part, hence the emoticon.

[BecauseYouLetRinDie]

^^

That's an opening and it's a SS moment not a NS, sometimes it amazes me to see some NS fan using it on their set, I always wonder if they knew it's a SS and not a NS.

Ohh thanks! Bummer that it's SS though. -siiighhh-
But could you tell me what opening it's from? Thanks again.

[T XD]

Ohh thanks! Bummer that it's SS though. -siiighhh-
But could you tell me what opening it's from? Thanks again.

If you mean an official theme introduction to the Naruto series, then it's not. It's an opening that a fan made it.