4869 replies to this topic

[Hopestar]

OMG I cannot believe it has been this long since I debated on this forum topic. Please go easy I'm a little rusty since I've been waiting for more evidence there I dont need to repeat the same evidence over & over.

You made good points there Chidori Mistress, because that's true Sakura hasn't shown any romantic feelings towards Naruto (yet) in the series at all. However there's some scenes that does indicate there possibilities; Sai and Yamato's obseveration (yes I know they dont know them that well) Kakashi comment in part 1 (sakura vs. Ino fight). For we know Sakura may actually "like" Naruto, she just doesnt know it (there's a thing called blind love) casing like that it would some horrible event for the person to realize their true intention to the person. Trust me, it has been done before in many other shonen manga like Inuyasha for example.

Recently team 7 are following the path of their precessdors, sannin, after Jiraiya's death it became more appealing of how team 7 shall succeed where the sannin has failed.

1) Jiraiya failed to save Oromichmaru from his own destruction
2) Tsunade failed to save her love ones 3 times (now counting Jiraiya)
3) Jiraiya failed to save his master & student from death
4) Oromichmaru failed to follow way of light
5) Jiraiya failed to get Tsunade
6) Tsunade failed to give Jiraiya a chance

So that's a quite a list of failures that Kishi plans team 7 to not repeat.

1) Naruto will save Sasuke from his demise
2) Sakura will be able toi save her love ones
3) Naruto will become the hero he's destined to be
4) Sasuke will redeem himself
5) Naruto will get Sakura
6) Sakura will allow Naruto a shot

Crazy yet true when you come to think of it and how the storyline been written these things are evident but wont be so obvious until Fall 2008. Does anyone has any other questions?

[Leney]

And the keywords of the day are "Selective Reading"!

I don't see him loving her romantically is because his affections have always been played out as comedic.

LOL! Naruto's face is soooo hilarious!

Hinata desires acknowledgment from HIM and therefore not only fits with the criteria of Naruto's likes but she wants him to see her.

Sorry, I missed this chapter in the manga. Hinata does not want acknowledgment from Naruto, she wants to follow in his example. She admires the qualities he has that she lacks. She wants Naruto to see that she can be strong as well.

Also, it's very amusing how this "criteria" of "Naruto's likes" can only be taken as subtext from this scene:

It's something Naruto needs. Someone who cares about him when no-one else did. Someone who cares about him before he had to prove him self. It took Sakura so long to see what Hinata already saw.

How can we prove that Hinata cared for him when no one else did when she was not there for him. I didn't see her playing with him while he was angsting on the swings. Hinata wasn't trying to console him after he failed. She wasn't there, so why do people claim that she was the only one who cared.

Also, pretty much every close person to Naruto had to be won over. Iruka didn't see Naruto with an new light until Sandaime pulled him aside. Tsunade thought Naruto was a fool. Sasuke didn't give a crap until Naruto joined Team 7, and Sasuke is his closest and strongest bond. Obviously Naruto doesn't have hard feelings towards these people for not falling in love at first sight.

- The difference between Sakura's crush and Naruto's crush is Sakura's had clear development into something more while Naruto's stayed the same.

The Promise of a Lifetime doesn't count as development into something more?

It never had much time dedicated to it and was never really treated as important to his character.

It had an entire chapter (and some change) more time than his feelings for Hinata.

And now it's the thing that is pushing her so much to be a better fighter.

No it's not. Sakura came to a realization in the Forest of Death, that Naruto and Sasuke have always took the brunt of everything, while Sakura stood being useless. Before she makes her stand she vows to not sit back watching Naruto and Sasuke's backs. "Everyone, please watch my back..."

When she goes to Tsunade for help, it's not only because she loves Sasuke and wants back, it's also because she doesn't want to continuing being useless while everyone else is putting their life on the line.

For Naruto, he seems to accept Sakura's affections for Sasuke and when ever she rejects him.

Yeah, but he must still see a chance if he keeps asking her to go out with him.

Love is a strong word when used to describe Naruto->Sakura. Romantically at least. Platonically, sure, there's love there, as he loves all his precious people, but I don't see where he is IN love with her.

So they were going to have a "platonic" kiss there. Okay.

All in all, IMO we're going to see Sakura come around romantically. The groundwork is there and there is reason to believe more will follow. Just because she rejected him in chapter 33, panel 3 doesn't mean she will never like Naruto in that way (btw just threw out random numbers there, lol).

[Jenskott]

And the keywords of the day are "Selective Reading"!

You tell it.

I don't see him loving her romantically is because his affections have always been played out as comedic.

That's a massive lie. But even if 95% of interaction between Naruto and Sakura was comedic -and it isn't-, how it speaks ill for the pairing? In shonen manga, the interaction between two people in love is mainly comedic, with some serious moments.

Actually there're more serious moments between Naruto and Sakura than between Ranma and Akane, for example.

Anyway, I find very amusing how they don't take Narusaku seriously because it is -according them- for comedic purposes but they take Sakura's abusement seriously, despite it IS for comedic purposes -the half dozen of times it has happened in 383 chapters-.

Hinata desires acknowledgment from HIM and therefore not only fits with the criteria of Naruto's likes but she wants him to see her.

From him? God, and here I was thinking she desires HIS FAMILY'S acknowledgement. Where it's told she desires Naruto's acknowledgement? All I remember is she didn't want looking bad in front of him.

It's something Naruto needs. Someone who cares about him when no-one else did. Someone who cares about him before he had to prove him self. It took Sakura so long to see what Hinata already saw.

Er... no. Naruto needs someone SHOWS him acknowledgement, regards his existance and puts an end to his loneliness. Hinata never did that. Iruka-sensei and Team 7 did that.

And Hinata never saw what he needed. Otherwise she would have overcame her shyness -so much for the change theme, huh?-, approached to him and offered her friendship, at least.

And if she saw it but she didn't help him when he needed him... I don't see how it speaks well for Hinata.

Sakura cared for him when she saw his pain, helped him and vowed saving him. Hinata never helped him.

And one of the reasons I have a very hard time taking Naruhina seriously is because his fans do it. They blow so out of proportion Hinata's role and importance in the manga and Naruto's life that it turns arguments might be reasonable in blatantly ridiculous affirmations (to me, obviously. I don't speak for someone else).

The difference between Sakura's crush and Naruto's crush is Sakura's had clear development into something more while Naruto's stayed the same.

Yes, it isn't like if he pummeled Gaara for protecting her, puts her feelings above his, hits on her, tries peeping her when she's taking a bath and vows stopping using the Kyuubi's chakra for never hurting her again.

It never had much time dedicated to it and was never really treated as important to his character.

Yes, it was. Like or not, Sakura is the only woman he has showed feeling something towards. He has never showed affection, not even lust, for other women.

And now it's the thing that is pushing her so much to be a better fighter.

No, it isn't. The thing has always pushed her to improve is saving and protecting both of her teammates. She has vowed saving them both. And she became Tsunade's disciple for going with Naruto and never again being a burden.

Sakura and Hinata wanted acknoweledgement. Sakura and Hinata wanted improving and stopping being useless. Sakura and Hinata were inspired for Naruto. But only Sakura has showed improvement and achieved acknowledgement so far.

Love is a strong word when used to describe Naruto->Sakura. Romantically at least. Platonically, sure, there's love there, as he loves all his precious people, but I don't see where he is IN love with her.

Perhaps where Naruto says it? First Sakura's appearance.

Anyway, that person has admitted -maybe grudgingly- that there's love between Naruto and Sakura. At least he or she isn't claiming Sakura is a b*tch doesn't care for Naruto. That's a good signal.

[Fruits Basket Fan]

If Sakura wanted to look at Naruto in a romantic light, she would. She's had plenty of chances. She makes a conscious effort to reject him, and there's no sign of remorse or embarrassment in those rejections. Why else would she reject him? Because she's conflicted? We haven't seen anything that warrants doubt about her romantic feelings. If it's not because of confliction, there's no reason why she's rejecting him other than she simply knows how she feels, and does not love him romantically.

Oh wow.... ....

Uh...she does not flat out reject him in part II....The very first date request was in the condition that he payed; the second one was with Sakura, saying it with slight humor in her facial expression, that he should go study if he had time for that; and the third one.....uh.........she called him an idiot because this time it was not a date request....it was Naruto assuming that it was her who was taking him to a date...but not at that time because Tsunade was waiting for them...so really, why are they considered rejections again?

Besides, this could be applied to Naruto and Sasuke and how it never showed them seeing Hinata and Sakura (respectively) in romantic lights *rolls eyes*.....

[roninmedia]

How about Sasuke's rejection of every date offer in Part One and of Sakura during the leaving scene yet Sasuke will come around and love Sakura when he comes back?

Double edge in that argument.

[Jenskott]

she called him an idiot because this time it was not a date request....it was Naruto assuming that it was her who was taking him to a date...but not at that time because Tsunade was waiting for them...so really, why are they considered rejections again?

Don't ask me. First time, she accepted. Second time, she answered "Not in the moment". Third time, HE thought she was taking him on a date and she corrected his false assumption.

It wasn't "No, dumbass, I'll never date with you". It was "No, dumbass, Tsunade-sama is waiting for us".

How about Sasuke's rejection of every date offer in Part One and of Sakura during the leaving scene yet Sasuke will come around and love Sakura when he comes back?

Double edge in that argument.

I didn't mention this because I don't know if that person thinks Sasuke is in love with Sakura or not, so I can't accuse him or her of hipocresy. But if that person thinks HE is or will be in love with Sakura despite he FLATLY rejecting her advances (he doesn't answer "Yes, if you are paying", "Not in the moment", or "I haven't come by for that". He tells "NO"), whereas he or she thinks Sakura CAN'T be in love with Naruto because she dodges his tries for a date...

Another thing: why so much people is convinced Sakura's love will bring Sasuke back to light and redemption? Naruto is the sort of manga where violence will save the world, not love. Do you remember how did he convert Inari, Neji or Gaara? And what happened when Sakura tried talking him into reason? And what happened when Naruto and Sakura met him again? He ignored Sakura, she attacked him, and he unsheathed his blade and charged.

[Leney]

The arguments that go along the lines of "Well, NaruSaku doesn't get enough development for me to believe it..." or "NaruSaku can't work because Sakura always rejects him," are problematic unless you're arguing for no parings whatsoever.

It's the pot calling the kettle black, but I guess when you're at the bottom of the barrel.

If NaruSaku hasn't been developed enough, what makes people think NaruHina/SasuSaku/LeeGaara has?

Another thing: why so much people is convinced Sakura's love will bring Sasuke back to light and redemption? Naruto is the sort of manga where violence will save the world, not love. Do you remember how did he convert Inari, Neji or Gaara?

I disagree. While Naruto may have to resort to beat people up he does get some talking, Inari and Gaara learned that true strength comes from protecting precious people (aka people you love). Naruto was able to push himself to beat Gaara because he wanted to protect Sakura and Sasuke. Inari had that whole "protect your precious people with your own hands" thing (unless I'm getting confused with Get Glory in This Hand...lol).

However, I don't think Sakura loving Sasuke is going to help him now. If Sasuke had returned any of her feelings beforehand favorable, maybe. But I have no doubt that Naruto is going to talk about bonds and love and being lonely while he's punching the hell out of Sasuke. LOL

[Fruits Basket Fan]

Well, Sakura did not call him "dumbass"...just "idiot"...The raw said she said, "baka" *idiot*.....While bakayaro *dumbass* was never used by her....I guess the original translator was biased and therefore tried to make it seem worse.....

[Jenskott]

If NaruSaku hasn't been developed enough, what makes people think NaruHina/SasuSaku/LeeGaara has?

Mm... Bias and wishful thinking?

I disagree.

As it's your right, and I respect your opinion . But you aren't completely disagreeing with me here.

While Naruto may have to resort to beat people up he does get some talking

Yes, he does some talking, but it doesn't change the fact he resorts to violence. We knowing about his motivations doesn't change the fact, either. Even if he pushed to his limits because Sakura and Sasuke, he beaten Gaara, talked about his feelings and THEN Gaara understood. Same thing with Neji: he didn't listen to one word what Naruto was telling until Naruto had defeated him.

I don't mention Inari because now I'm thinking about, I think it isn't a good example. Naruto only yelled him and put him down, didn't he?

Of course during his fight with Sasuke he'll talk and yell about love bonds, but the two of us assume he'll be trying beating the crap out of Sasuke while he does it. They won't sit down to talk about love and friendship bonds until Sasuke finally understands.

Like I have said, in this kind of series, it's very usual the hero or heroine resorts to fight his/her adversary while he or she talk about love, friendship and comradeship, and reflect over his/her motivations.

However, I don't think Sakura loving Sasuke is going to help him now. If Sasuke had returned any of her feelings beforehand favorable, maybe. But I have no doubt that Naruto is going to talk about bonds and love and being lonely while he's punching the hell out of Sasuke. LOL

Exactly. It didn't work very well the first time she tried it, right? Naruto is his friend, his brother, his teammate and his rival. His bond with him is way stronger than with Sakura, who is only his friend and teammate. Naruto has a bigger chance to bring him around than Sakura ever does (she kind of STATED that during the Promise of a Lifetime scene).

Well, Sakura did not call him "dumbass"...just "idiot"...

I don't remember what the RAW told. I thought she said "dumbass", so I used that.

[Manda]

And the keywords of the day are "Selective Reading"!

I don't see him loving her romantically is because his affections have always been played out as comedic.

LOL! Naruto's face is soooo hilarious!

LMAO XDDDD

Yeah, I don't get how they can say his feelings are just comedic.

Because that didn't even look anything like a joke at all.

[Derock]

LOL! Naruto's face is soooo hilarious!

LMAO XDDDD

Yeah, I don't get how they can say his feelings are just comedic.

Because that didn't even look anything like a joke at all.

I think I figured it out why they used that... they use the so-called "Sakura abusing Naruto" argument which IS commonly use for comedical purpose in a typical shonen manga/anime. As for this scene here, they avoid it, thinking it was probably not important to back it up. (And the scene here is SERIOUS, not comical, hell, I may point out is one-sided SasuSaku: while Sakura hugging and crying over Sasuke, Sasuke thinking: "Why the hell is this girl still hugging me?!")

[Chidori Mistress]

Even Sai, commenting on the oh-so-coveted "feeding scene" says: "It's what a true friend would do." Friend. Not lover. Friend.I have people telling me that Sakura beating Naruto physically is comic relief, and that Sasuke's treatment of Sakura was OHMIGOZZ EMOTIONAL ABUSE and proclaim themselves shrinks and try to cram their psychobabble down my throat when they probably haven't hit puberty.

Sasuke's one mentally broken person, no matter how calm he looks; regardless, he's in a manga, and it's not impossible for him to love someone. Why? Because this isn't the real world, where people go down the street and down four pills every two hours to keep themselves from their flashbacks and seizures and nervous twitches, just to get through a date with someone.

I hate seeing Sasuke reduced to an emotionless being, because if any of you read the manga, you should realize that he's not. That said, it's not impossible for him to be in a relationship, he's not like Naruto who clings to every bond he can get. He's different. It will probably take more work, but it's not impossible.

If Sakura's and Hinata's feelings are treated seriously and huge parts of their characters then those feelings should be perceived as such by the readers/audience. Same applies to Naruto, if his feelings for Sakura are mostly shown as comedic and not a huge part of his character then it should received as such by the readers/audience.

Sakura's feelings for Sasueke were very shallow at the beginning. But they evolved romantically while Naruto's didn't. His platonic relationship with Sakura evolved but his romantic feelings don't seemed to have budged much from crush.

Promise of a Lifetime:
Those feelings were delt with seriously, however they were about accepting Sakura's feelings for Sasuke placing that higher than his feelings for her and stepping aside and getting over it.

Naruto is still a doormat to Sakura, whearas Sakura has evolved from a Sasuke fangirl.

Kishi has avoided many chances to romantically develop NaruSaku. You would think after all this screen-time they would gain further romantic development. It seems Kishi does not want to progress beyond friendship.

[Jenskott]

Sigh. Why does people still discuss these things? It's pointless and it's obsessive.

I suppose I can't claim moral superiority since I AM replying, but I don'tt ake the pairing subject SO seriously.

Even Sai, commenting on the oh-so-coveted "feeding scene" says:

Oh-so-coveted? It sounds very contemptuous. Gee, when the scene suits your perfect, happy end, you rave over it, but if it challenges your views, you diminish it or put it down, don't you?

"It's what a true friend would do." Friend. Not lover. Friend.

And Sakura called Sasuke "our friend". No lover. Friend.

Do I think it proves SasuSaku is dead? Of course not. So I find simply ridiculous how you want using Sai's words like "evidence".

By the way, if it's something friends do, I ask because Naruto was so pissed Sai fed him instead of Sakura. Specially when he is supposed to having gotten over her.

I have people telling me that Sakura beating Naruto physically is comic relief, and that Sasuke's treatment of Sakura was OHMIGOZZ EMOTIONAL ABUSE and proclaim themselves shrinks and try to cram their psychobabble down my throat when they probably haven't hit puberty.

-Sakura beating Naruto IS comic relief.

-Sasuke rejecting Sakura is comic relief or not depending on the scene.

-I wasn't aware a major in psychology was required for judging the behavior of fictional characters.

-I'm twenty-seven. And the inmaturity you are defending your position with makes me wondering me if YOU have hit puberty.

I'm sorry, but I have ignored your points about Sasuke because sincerely, it gets boring. Sasuke IS a cold a**hole. The only emotion he feeds on now is hatred towards his brother. Live with it.

Promise of a Lifetime:
Those feelings were delt with seriously, however they were about accepting Sakura's feelings for Sasuke placing that higher than his feelings for her and stepping aside and getting over it.

And exactly WHERE he shows he has gotten over it? Where he says it? Where he shows interest for other women?

Sakura's feelings for Sasuke were very shallow at the beginning. But they evolved romantically while Naruto's didn't.

Yes, they did. And since you don't use evidence or use biased, partial statements like evidence, I don't feel need for ellaborating it further.

If Sakura's and Hinata's feelings are treated seriously and huge parts of their characters then those feelings should be perceived as such by the readers/audience. Same applies to Naruto, if his feelings for Sakura are mostly shown as comedic and not a huge part of his character then it should received as such by the readers/audience.

They ARE. For me and many people they have been clear since the beginning. I thought that when I saw Sakura, and the manga hasn't disproved my first impression. At all.

Kishi has avoided many chances to romantically develop NaruSaku.

He has done. From the beginning. Simply, you don't want seeing it because it ruins your happy end, pairingwise.

Sakura blushes and asks him if he finds her more feminine? You tell it's just friendship. Naruto suggests dating together and she accepts? You tell she's humoring him. She cries when she learn about the fate of a Jinchuuriki? You tell it's only friendship. She clutches her chest, dashes towards Naruto screaming she'll save Sasuke FOR HIM, and later Yamato tells he realizes what her feelings are? You tell he was going to talk about his self-assuredness issues (despite ONLY Kishimoto knows what Yamato was going to tell). She leers at Naruto, telling she'll feed him? You tell it's only friendship, her offer is out of pity...

But let me guess: Sakura staring shocked at Sasuke is proof of love. Hinata muttering "Naruto-kun" is proof of love.

Naruto is still a doormat to Sakura,

And your "Sakura has evolved from a mere Sasuke fangirl" statement can be turned on you. I wouldn't use it.

You would think after all this screen-time they would gain further romantic development. It seems Kishi does not want to progress beyond friendship.

Again, they have gained further romantic development. And again, I recommend you stopping using arguments can be turned on you easily: Naruto and Hinata haven't gained any romantic development. Not even when Hinata shows up, or when she's paired up with Naruto. It seems Kishi doen't want to progress beyond friendship.

Besides, many authors don't want ruining the romantic tension for pairing two characters too soon. Usually they wait for the end of the series. When Ranma admitted he loved Akane? In the second-to-last chapter. When Tatsuya told Minami he loved her? In the second-to-last Touch chapter. When Madoka and Kyosuke kissed? In the last page of Kimagure Orange Road. When Ryo Saeba and Kaori finally hooked up? In City Hunter's last chapter.

[Silent Shinobi]

^ Well said. I would reply here, but I hardly see the need anymore. I doesn't seem like anyone here is having any trouble at all shutting down just about any argument posted.

So, I'll just sit back and watch the show. Bravo, all! You guys have really took the words right out of my mouth.

[Nate River]

Watch the language Jenskott.

Even Sai, commenting on the oh-so-coveted "feeding scene" says: "It's what a true friend would do." Friend. Not lover. Friend.I have people telling me that Sakura beating Naruto physically is comic relief, and that Sasuke's treatment of Sakura was OHMIGOZZ EMOTIONAL ABUSE and proclaim themselves shrinks and try to cram their psychobabble down my throat when they probably haven't hit puberty.

I'm unsure why the poster's opinion on the hilarity of the comic relieft has any bearing on it's actual intent. Such moments are used for comic relief in many a series, the fact that they don't think it's funny doesn't change it's intent, which more relavant that the fan's opinion on whether it's truly humerous..

I hate seeing Sasuke reduced to an emotionless being, because if any of you read the manga, you should realize that he's not. That said, it's not impossible for him to be in a relationship, he's not like Naruto who clings to every bond he can get. He's different. It will probably take more work, but it's not impossible.

I do as well. And to me, his part 2 incarnation is hovered over this characterization constantly. I hate it.

If Sakura's and Hinata's feelings are treated seriously and huge parts of their characters then those feelings should be perceived as such by the readers/audience. Same applies to Naruto, if his feelings for Sakura are mostly shown as comedic and not a huge part of his character then it should received as such by the readers/audience.

If this is true, then why complain about NaruSaku's fan characterization of Sakura's behavior this way?

Next, let's say that they are a huge part of character, what does that mean if the character isn't that important? It means that in the overall scheme of things, here feelings are only important in a comparative sense, overall, not as much. NaruHina fans constantly oversell the important of her character. When was the last time she's been relevant. Hell, even now we could replace her with TenTen and it really wouldn't change anything. When was the last time she was releavnt to Naruto's character? When has he thought of her since the exams and when has he impacted her at all since then, let alone in a meaningful way?

Besides, I think Hinata's role is misunderstood. Her importance was the representation of change. That people are capable of changing. Her relationship to Naruto was an impudues to this, but to oversell her feelings is to elevate the means over the ends.

So much is made of HER feelings and Sakura's feelings, but what about Naruto and Sasuke. Because there are instances of comedy surrouding them, they are treated as an almost irrelavancy and that it's only a matter of time before Sasuke comes around.

But why should I think Sasuke is going to do so? He needs to reestablish the friendship first. Sure, it exists on their end, but in Sasuke's mind it doesn't or rather he doesn't want it to. That bond will have to be reestablished and I imagine it will take the majority of the rest of the manga to do because without that, the story loses at lot of its drive. Moreover, it's the most important type of relationship in this series. This series is much weaker if Akatsuki is the only thing left to pursue.

She meant something to Sasuke, but I don't find any indications that he ever loved her that way or will feel that way. This is true of Naruto as well. It's almost assumed that Naruto will return her feelings. My question is simple: why? When has he shown any indication of this. So much is depended on a single arc, but that itself speaks volumes. He has not thought her since the exams. Even when they met up, there was no follow up; not even when Hinata's team was included. So why should I expect it?

On the other hand, Naruto and Sakura's relationship has been consistently growing and evolving since the beginning. At least, SasuSaku has been present throught the series. It went backwards a bit when Sasuke left, but it's almost a given there will be some focus whether it be on an individual level or as part of Team 7. Hinata doesn't even have that much.

Promise of a Lifetime:
Those feelings were delt with seriously, however they were about accepting Sakura's feelings for Sasuke placing that higher than his feelings for her and stepping aside and getting over it.

Is that so. I can't remember a part where he got over it. He looked pained both there and in the hospital, but there is a significant difference between stepping aside and giving up. That much I can agree with, but where doesn it shows he's getting over it? His requests for dates since then seem to contradict this. If he's over it why bother at all? Just for the hell of old times sake? That seems rather odd.

Moreover this glosses over a important point in the scene and demonstrates something more akin to act of love than anyone else had shown up to that point. He was willing to step aside, regardless of the pain, so she could have her desires. He gave something up he valued so she could have what she wanted most. He sacrificed his feelings for hers.

When did Hinata do that for Naruto? When did Sakura for Sasuke? When did Sasuke do it for Sakura? If that doesn't show seriousness, I really don't know what else to say. It seems everything else negates that, I guess.

[canis]

Naruto is still a doormat to Sakura, whearas Sakura has evolved from a Sasuke fangirl.

Well, on the roof of the hospital after Sasuke and Naruto fought, Naruto told Sakura that she shouldn't get involved the next time.
So, it's not that he can't talk back or anything, he just chooses not to.
That doesn't make him a doormat. He seems just fine with their relationship and is satisfied with its mechanics.

If Sakura's and Hinata's feelings are treated seriously and huge parts of their characters then those feelings should be perceived as such by the readers/audience. Same applies to Naruto, if his feelings for Sakura are mostly shown as comedic and not a huge part of his character then it should received as such by the readers/audience.

Well, in my opinion the poster of this argument is mixing up Naruto's feelings and the situation itself.
Let's take the feeding scene for example...
Naruto can't believe he's to be fed by Sakura-chan and blushes. That's not really comical, is it (doesn't matter how you interpret on his feelings in this)?
However Sai changes the moment into something more comical and decides to take action.
In my book that's a comical situation and not comical feelings...
So if you say if Sakura's and Hinata's feelings are to be taken seriously, then Naruto's "I like you" from part I should too, especially when a few blushes hint that those feelings are still there in part II.
Which brings me to the next argument:

Promise of a Lifetime:
Those feelings were delt with seriously, however they were about accepting Sakura's feelings for Sasuke placing that higher than his feelings for her and stepping aside and getting over it.

Hmm, just because he is willing to put her feelings first if necessary, doesn't mean that he is giving up on her or getting over her. It just means that as long as she's happy it's fine with him.
You know how they say: "Hope always dies last", right? In my opinion he is still hoping with the amount of moments they shared in part II (blushing at her skills in the Sand, namely healing Kankurou, blushing at her trying to feed him, expressing happiness that they together get closer to Sasuke while recovering from FRS,...).

[Leney]

I hate seeing Sasuke reduced to an emotionless being, because if any of you read the manga, you should realize that he's not. That said, it's not impossible for him to be in a relationship, he's not like Naruto who clings to every bond he can get. He's different. It will probably take more work, but it's not impossible.

Can someone explain to me what is being said here, because the logic is so convoluted that I'm not sure if the person is trying to say Naruto is too emotionless, or that he's so dysfunctional Sakura would never go out with him.

Anyways, Sasuke isn't emotionless, but he WANTS to be. He wants to cut off his bonds because he sees them as useless to his ambition to kill Itachi. Therefore at this point in the manga it is IMPOSSIBLE for Sasuke to have a relationship. He voluntarily rejects it.

Naruto clings to every bond he can get, because like you're implying in your words, it's hard for him to get bonds in the first place. He didn't have any until he was twelve years old. So if this makes him clingy, well...it's understandable. This is why he hasn't given up on Sasuke yet.

If Sakura's and Hinata's feelings are treated seriously and huge parts of their characters then those feelings should be perceived as such by the readers/audience. Same applies to Naruto, if his feelings for Sakura are mostly shown as comedic and not a huge part of his character then it should received as such by the readers/audience.

I've never seen an instance of the one-sided sexual tension between Hinata ----> Naruto that wasn't comedic relief. So by this reasoning, NaruHina is nothing but comedy fodder.

And speaking of sexual tension. SasuSaku and NaruHina are onesided in this regard.

Naruto is still a doormat to Sakura, whearas Sakura has evolved from a Sasuke fangirl.

She kind of had to. Her love for Sasuke was making her a weak character. Yet Naruto's love for Sakura is what helped him to continue to push past his limits to save Konoha from Shukaku.

It makes sense that if Sakura is to become a strong individual she's going to change her priorities away from whatever is enabling her to be weak, and she did. Naruto is a different character. When has being a "doormat to Sakura" ever caused him any trouble?

[Jenskott]

Watch the language Jenskott.

I'm sorry, Shriner. I'll see it doesn't happen again.

Anyway, I must congratulate for your excellent points. It's very hard debating with you.

I'm unsure why the poster's opinion on the hilarity of the comic relieft has any bearing on it's actual intent. Such moments are used for comic relief in many a series, the fact that they don't think it's funny doesn't change it's intent, which more relavant that the fan's opinion on whether it's truly humerous..

I agree. I shall NEVER understand that.

However I find very hard arguing with NaruHina/SasuSaku fans, as well. Even the reasonable and non-obsessed. Why? Because sometimes it sounds like if you are reading entirely different comics. If you read their essays and arguments, you would think than Hinata is an important supporting character who appears frequently, Naruto and she have a very special bond he can't share with anyone else, their relationship is very important on the comic, Sakura barely tolerates or understands Naruto, and NaruHina is neither a possibility nor a probability, but an unquestionable future.

And I don't understand why they work so hard for diminishing the Naruto/Sakura's bond, and the scenes where it's developed. I can freely admit it's possible Sakura is still in love with Sasuke. But they try proving it like a carved-in-stone fact, despite the lack of evidence, and with a zeal I consider excessive and exaggerate.

Well, I believe I know the why, but I don't know if this is the appropiate thread, so I'm putting it in spoiler tags, only in case (and mods can erase it if they find it inappropiate).

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

I suspect NaruHina fans engage in that behaviour (obviously I can't speak for all NaruHina fans; and SasuSaku has a better chance) liked NaruHina when saw Hinata/Neji duel, and the Naruto/Neji fight built your hopes. They wanted/hoped/expected they end up together, and thought the series was leading to that outcome.

But then not only their predictions didn't come to pass (Hinata becoming an important character, playing a big role in the history or even replacing Sakura like lead female; Naruto learning more about Hinata and falling in love with her; Naruto and Hinata developing a special bond), but also Naruto/Sakura's bond went on getting more solid and stronger.

So, now their hopes about Naruto/Hinata development have been crushed, they resort to try proving Sasusaku because they realize if Sakura has fallen in love with Naruto, the possibilities of Naruto falling in love with Hinata are inexistent. So every dialogue and action, every panel, every scene between Naruto and Sakura is rationalized out, rejected or diminished, and even blatantly ridiculous claims are done (such like "Sakura would kill Naruto for saving Sasuke in a heartbeat" or "Naruto is Sakura's doormat").

They don't want believe they could have been wrong, so they try demonstrating something they can't demonstrate because they aren't the author neither they are writing the history (and they works for all shippers of any pairing).

And I don't understand that stubbornness. It's only a pairing.

Of course, NaruSaku fans can also be very willful. But I read Ranma 1/2 and I was -am- a Ryoga/Ukyo supporter, but when Akari got introduced, I realized they wouldn't end up together and I accepted it. It isn't a big deal.

Anyway, I'm fed up with the "Kishimoto watched DBZ! Kishimoto got influenced by Toriyama! It's SOLID PROOF!", like if it showed that NaruHina/SasuSaku are likely instead of possible. Not matter the manga is called DragonBall, not DBZ or DragonBall Z.

Gee, let's check other series Kishimoto watched:

Akira- Kay -the lead female- didn't like Kaneda. She sort of despised him at the beginning and she was in love with someone else. But as the manga progressed, She fell in love with Kaneda.

Fist of NorthStar- Kenshiro -the main character- ended up with the woman he loved, not with the one stalked him silently.

Saint Seiya- There was romantic tension between Seiya and Saori, but they never hooked up. However Seiya didn't hook up with other girls, either.

Mobile Suit Gundam- Amuro Rei ended up with nobody. Neither his old friend nor the woman he met later.

Rurouni Kenshin- Kenshin and Kaoru became a married couple.

City Hunter- Ryo chased every gorgeous woman he ever met and pretended he felt nothing for his partner, Kaori. Kaori claimed they were just partners, but every time she saw him flirting with another woman, she got mad and bashed/crushed/flattened/stoned/crippled him. Their interaction was mostly humorous, and they only flirted and showed they cared for each other every so often. And eventually they became an item.

So... in fact the statics speak in favor of the main male character/main female character couple (usually it's the person the main character wants and/or the other main character), or none whatsoever. And comic relief scenes doesn't suggest possible romantic feelings aren't serious.

[True]

*Brings in more arguments*

I think that circumstances could allow for NH to develop even though Naruto likes Sakura. First of all, I see no reason for Naruto to totally turn her down if she confessed. I think he'd at least give her a chance and go on a date because no one has ever shown him such affection and because he knows what rejection is like from Sakura. After that, who knows?

My second point is that in Part 1, Naruto showed that he could come to terms with not being able to be with Sakura. He put his friendship with Sasuke and Sakura's feelings for Sasuke over his own feelings for Sakura when he went on the retrival mission. There are more important things to him than Sakura's affection, so to say he would turn Hinata down solely because he likes Sakura seems unlikely.

Lastly is what I suppose might be called my personal bias. It doesn't really prove my point but it expalins my thinking. Personally, I just don't see much to substantiate Naruto's continued romantic interest in Sakura. Sure he cares about her, but I don't see a lot that would cause him to develop romantic feelings for Sakura or that would make these feelings any more than a crush. He says she's a babe in one of the first chapters and she wants Sasuke's acknowledgement, but that's about it. Hinata, on the other hand, looks up to him, takes encouragement from him, and sees him for who he really is. Call me a romantic at heart if you will.

Sakura only recently started to see Naruto for who he really is... Hinata always saw Naruto for who he is, from what we can tell. Sakura barely shed a tear, and barely seemed to understand what Naruto must have gone through. Hinata has a far better chance of understanding what Naruto went through in his childhood then Sakura does.

This one is for those of you out there who are still saying that Hinata only admires NAruto (if there are any of you still out there who are reading this). Anyway, I finally found where, in the manga, it spells it out for you in a way that cannot be misinterpreted. At the start of each Volume (the published version only. The online scans on this site don't have this or some other things that are only in the published version of the manga) there is a breif recap of the story and a short description of some of the side characters that will appear in the upcoming Volume. In Volume 9, Hinata is one of the characters that appears on this page. It reads, and I quote, "Hinata Hyuga This shy young kunoichi (female ninja) has a monster crush on Naruto."

Anyone want to take a shot

[Derock]

Ok, here I go:

I think that circumstances could allow for NH to develop even though Naruto likes Sakura. First of all, I see no reason for Naruto to totally turn her down if she confessed. I think he'd at least give her a chance and go on a date because no one has ever shown him such affection and because he knows what rejection is like from Sakura. After that, who knows?

That's your opinion...

My second point is that in Part 1, Naruto showed that he could come to terms with not being able to be with Sakura. He put his friendship with Sasuke and Sakura's feelings for Sasuke over his own feelings for Sakura when he went on the retrival mission. There are more important things to him than Sakura's affection, so to say he would turn Hinata down solely because he likes Sakura seems unlikely.

That's because.... Sasuke AND Sakura are the closest bonds to him. Of course he puts Sasuke and Sakura's feelings before his. They're were the first people, along with Kakashi, Iruka and the Sandaime Hokage to accept him for who he is. And Naruto IS interested in Sakura, in a romantic sense. Why you think he keeps asking her for dates?

Lastly is what I suppose might be called my personal bias. It doesn't really prove my point but it expalins my thinking. Personally, I just don't see much to substantiate Naruto's continued romantic interest in Sakura. Sure he cares about her, but I don't see a lot that would cause him to develop romantic feelings for Sakura or that would make these feelings any more than a crush. He says she's a babe in one of the first chapters and she wants Sasuke's acknowledgement, but that's about it. Hinata, on the other hand, looks up to him, takes encouragement from him, and sees him for who he really is. Call me a romantic at heart if you will.

Sakura only recently started to see Naruto for who he really is... Hinata always saw Naruto for who he is, from what we can tell. Sakura barely shed a tear, and barely seemed to understand what Naruto must have gone through. Hinata has a far better chance of understanding what Naruto went through in his childhood then Sakura does.

Uh... let us go through the previous Naruto's interactions with Sakura:

Chapter 3: Calls her a babe (Viz translation)
Later in that chapter: understand why he likes/loves her
In the Wave Arc: Cheered at her for her 1st attempt in the tree climbing exercise
In Chuunin Exam: cheered for her while she fighting Ino and "helped" her to get Ino out of the Mind Transfer jutsu in her head.
During his battle with Gaara: he fights to protect her from further harm.
Before the Sasuke Retrieval after bringing back Tsunade: he had a pained look on his face when he saw Sakura hugging Sasuke in the hospital.
After Sasuke left immediately: Made the Promise of a Lifetime to Sakura and he puts her feelings before his.
After fight with Sasuke: apologize to her and still keeping his promise which eventually she said they will bring Sasuke back, together.

Now on to Part 2: 1) while she was healing Kankuro, he admires her abilities.
2) Asked her out on dates: 1st attempt - she said he has to pay, 2nd attempt - she suggested him to train on the body and mind, 3rd attempt - she said they have to see Tsunade immediately.
3) He blushed when she was about to feed him ramen.

I think you missed A LOT .

Now on Hinata...

WHEN has she see who he really is? Does she know about Kyuubi, the Akatsuki's true purpose, HIS true feelings?! She hasn't knew ANY of these. All she knew was that he was struggling to rise to the top as a failure and that was during the Chuunin Exam when she was remembering Naruto's struggles.

... and in terms of understanding, Sakura knows about Naruto MORE than Hinata, in fact she cried more than Hinata (hell, I haven't seen Hinata cry yet). Where's your proof of Hinata understanding Naruto more?

This one is for those of you out there who are still saying that Hinata only admires NAruto (if there are any of you still out there who are reading this). Anyway, I finally found where, in the manga, it spells it out for you in a way that cannot be misinterpreted. At the start of each Volume (the published version only. The online scans on this site don't have this or some other things that are only in the published version of the manga) there is a breif recap of the story and a short description of some of the side characters that will appear in the upcoming Volume. In Volume 9, Hinata is one of the characters that appears on this page. It reads, and I quote, "Hinata Hyuga This shy young kunoichi (female ninja) has a monster crush on Naruto."

Yeah but where's is it in the next volume? That was for that issue only. And no recaps, they only tell what was going on in the previous issue of the story, not about the characters themselves.