4869 replies to this topic

[Rick (Bonta-kun)]

Oh my.... ...

One argument I am getting sick of from this SasukexSakura fan is this:

"Sakura confessed her love to Sasuke....It shows that she still loves him.....You need to show proof why Sakura is not in love with Sasuke anymore in part II...."

....And this is right after I said to comeback a post in which I said that it is going to far to assume that Sakura is still in love with Sasuke just like people to assuming that Sakura is in love with Naruto (even though it may be strongly hinting at that)....goes both ways....The debator even used the databook as well....

Geez...that is not a comeback....that is a crutch they use......That person should take Ino's databook profile on how "Her feelings for Sasuke will not slacken...." into "consideration" then:

http://img204.images...8/160161ux8.jpg

I do not think it means anything, of course....But it said her feelings will not slacken...."ZOMG! Ino is so in love with Sasuke! CANON! CANON! It will happen and she is still in love with Sasuke now"....*sarcasm*....Doubt it.....Databooks use flowery language...

That is so awesome, never seen someone used that scene to justify her still being in love with Sasuke in part 2. I mean, its not like 3 years have passed since then, in which her feelings may have faded and not be there at all, oh wait it has .

Oh and btw, you didnt link the english translation of Inos databook page, just the japanese page , and i dont think many people can read japanese lol.

[Fruits Basket Fan]

I cannot find the English translation....This was recently discovered over the internet that had Ino's full text of her entry .....

[AnimeGirl_123]

For starters, I don't think people refuse to see Narusaku as a possible pairing at all. They do see its possibilities, Not one can really deny them. Its more that they just support something else or they dont like the idea of the pairing. I dont think people TRUELY refuse to admit its existance. If anything thats why they choose to argue it. XD

I also don't think romantic development is needed in a shonen manga. NARUTO'S base is friendship not romance. Many people want to view this manga in a shoujo light, but it is not shoujo. Romance takes a backseat to friendship. AKA story focuses on Naruto and Sakura's friendship. Not Hinata and Naruto's possible romance. I also feel that Hinata is perfectly capable of performing on her own (I mean she became a chuunin for goodness sake while he wasn't around) but I definetly feel that she needs to tell Naruto her feelings for her to complete her change. I struggle with finding a reason for having her be rejected by Naruto as well. It would only cause her character to regress back to the self conscious person she was in the beginning of NARUTO. It would take everything Hinata has to confess, and even I don't feel Kishimoto would be that cruel to her. I don't think it would register with Naruto for awhile though... >>

I won't comment on Sakura's feelings for naruto because honestly I think she may like him, and I am ok with that. I just feel Naruhina is gunna happen. If NaruSaku does happen though I'm happy. I've stated this before Im pro Naruhina, but its not my manga. Kishimoto can do what he wants and I will be happy. XD

I have to agree with you. This is shounen. Not shoujo. I think alot of people, including us, need to realize this. ><;

I also like NaruHina. Sometimes it's hard for us dual shippers. >>; They both have possibilities. If Sakura goes with Sasuke, there's like... a 99% chance Naruto will be with Hinata if he's with anyone. And vice versa. If Naruto's taken, and Sakura HAS to be with SOMEONE, it's most likely gonna be Sasuke. Only because SasuSaku and NaruHina actually have some meat to them. Unlike things like KibaHina, NejiHina, ShinoHina, SasuKarin, LeeSaku, etc.

[Kalluri Vaanil]

Actually I see where they're coming from. It's true that Naruto's feelings for Sakura weren't focused on as much as Saku-->Sasu and arguably Hina-->Naru. But to me it's the little things that count. So Naru-->Saku is on the same level for me.

Also the comedy is what makes NaruSaku attracting. At least, to me. Some others may not feel the same way. ::

Darkhope was never that great of a debator to begin with. All she does is mostly post that same databook scan of Hinata and Naruto over and over, trying to convince people that Kishimoto called it a love story, then turning around and saying all of this stuff is open to interpretation. lol wut

"Sakura confessed her love to Sasuke....It shows that she still loves him.....You need to show proof why Sakura is not in love with Sasuke anymore in part II...."

....And this is right after I said to comeback a post in which I said that it is going to far to assume that Sakura is still in love with Sasuke just like people to assuming that Sakura is in love with Naruto (even though it may be strongly hinting at that)....goes both ways....The debator even used the databook as well....

Agreed, this needs to DIE. Cuz first off, what has there been concerning Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke in part 2 really? Nothing... besides friendship. In some scenes she doesn't even look like she wants to go after Sasuke anymore too. She cares about Naruto's safety first and foremost, and what he wants. She thinks that bringing Sasuke back will make him happier. Ironic, considering that at first, Naruto was bringing back Sasuke for Sakura-chan, and not himself. Then he turned all "SAAAAAAAAASUUUUUUUKEEEEEEEEE!" on us.

And... really, why don't the majority of shippers consider this: Why is it wrong for Sakura to have loved Sasuke, but developed those feelings for Naruto now? It's a natural progression, really. All of it makes sense.

[Rick (Bonta-kun)]

Agreed, this needs to DIE. Cuz first off, what has there been concerning Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke in part 2 really? Nothing... besides friendship. In some scenes she doesn't even look like she wants to go after Sasuke anymore too. She cares about Naruto's safety first and foremost, and what he wants. She thinks that bringing Sasuke back will make him happier. Ironic, considering that at first, Naruto was bringing back Sasuke for Sakura-chan, and not himself. Then he turned all "SAAAAAAAAASUUUUUUUKEEEEEEEEE!" on us.

I dont agree with that, i dont think Sakura is helping Naruto bring back Sasuke just because Naruto wants him back and stuff. I think she wants Sasuke back not only for Naruto, not only for herself, but for EVERYONE.

[roninmedia]

In part 2, it does seem Naruto is more hurt by Sasuke's defection and more focused on bringing Sasuke back than Sakura because it's more expressed. It's not the only reason, but I think it has been growing so much. Sakura, I think now realizes the lengths Naruto will go to bring Sasuke back and I do think it scares her (In part 1, it might be Sakura only believes Naruto was unable to convince Sasuke to come back and Sasuke just beat him; not he took a Chidori to the lung and threw his Rasengan only to scratch Sasuke's headband).

And it is because of her that he made the promise of a lifetime because thats a part of why he's willing to go so far, she did appear to be giving up hope at the hospital scene. Sasuke was willing to give up his body in this lifetime to kill Itachi and I think Naruto was willing to give up his life to bring back Sasuke and giving in to the Kyuubi so easily but it his affection for Sakura to risk not harming her that he is trying to do it now on his own power.

[Kalluri Vaanil]

I dont agree with that, i dont think Sakura is helping Naruto bring back Sasuke just because Naruto wants him back and stuff. I think she wants Sasuke back not only for Naruto, not only for herself, but for EVERYONE.

Yeah, but if it came to saving Naruto, or going after Sasuke, what do you think she would choose to do? This doesn't have to concern her romantic affections for the boys- she loves them both, possibly in different ways, but fact of the matter is, she's closer to Naruto at the moment.

[Rick (Bonta-kun)]

Yeah, but if it came to saving Naruto, or going after Sasuke, what do you think she would choose to do? This doesn't have to concern her romantic affections for the boys- she loves them both, possibly in different ways, but fact of the matter is, she's closer to Naruto at the moment.

Yeah i agree with that, but that wasnt my point, my point was that you pretty much said that Sakura is only going after Sasuke because Naruto wants him back. Thats not true, because she does want him back too, because he is still a friend of hers.

[Vyse]

I cannot find the English translation....This was recently discovered over the internet that had Ino's full text of her entry .....

Has there even been a decent translation of the Databooks? There's at least two now, right? I think I will order the databooks from japan and have them translated, just in case... But that will be at least a couple of months from now, since my translator will be busy with school for a while.

[Rick (Bonta-kun)]

Has there even been a decent translation of the Databooks? There's at least two now, right? I think I will order the databooks from japan and have them translated, just in case... But that will be at least a couple of months from now, since my translator will be busy with school for a while.

Im 99% sure there have been, i remember seeing pages of the databooks translated, cant remember where though lol.

[Nate River]

Oh my.... ...

One argument I am getting sick of from this SasukexSakura fan is this:

"Sakura confessed her love to Sasuke....It shows that she still loves him.....You need to show proof why Sakura is not in love with Sasuke anymore in part II...."

....And this is right after I said to comeback a post in which I said that it is going to far to assume that Sakura is still in love with Sasuke just like people to assuming that Sakura is in love with Naruto (even though it may be strongly hinting at that)....goes both ways....The debator even used the databook as well....

Geez...that is not a comeback....that is a crutch they use......That person should take Ino's databook profile on how "Her feelings for Sasuke will not slacken...." into "consideration" then:

http://img204.images...8/160161ux8.jpg

I do not think it means anything, of course....But it said her feelings will not slacken...."ZOMG! Ino is so in love with Sasuke! CANON! CANON! It will happen and she is still in love with Sasuke now"....*sarcasm*....Doubt it.....Databooks use flowery language...

Is that Part 1 Ino, and is that from the 2005 data book? What I've never understood is the almost slavish devotion to the thing. If it's from 2005 the thing that should be noted is that it doesn't cover any of part 2, which included Ino's swooning over Sai. If she still truly loved him why do this guilt free and why virtually zippo reaffirmation of this love? Ino's importance itself is one answer. If she does love him, it's not particularly important or relevant now and there isn't any proof it's meant as any kind of parallel to Sakura.

The short of it is that a data book released in 2005 is missing two years of development, and thus, is dated, yet, is constantly sided as if were released days ago. Second, it's often cited selectively and the citations and the specific sections sited seem to have a direct correlation to their consistency with the posters prior interpretations, which isn't a good way to debate; and this is true of all sides.

I prefer not to spend much time on it and prefer to go straight to the source material.

Yeah, but if it came to saving Naruto, or going after Sasuke, what do you think she would choose to do? This doesn't have to concern her romantic affections for the boys- she loves them both, possibly in different ways, but fact of the matter is, she's closer to Naruto at the moment.

I agree with rick, you're previous statement best describes Sai, not Sakura.

As it's set up, it's not an equal choice. Not going after Sasuke at a given moment, does not preclude her from doing so later. If she fails to save Naruto now, odds other there will not be another chance (he could die) or he'll suffer greatly, and if it's Akatsuki, they'll be that much closer to finishing their objective and threatening many more people.

It has to be an equal choice, meaning either/or; that if she does one she cannot possibly do the other and the consequences of not doing one would have to be comparable to the consequences of not doing the other. Basically, if Naruto will die if not saved, it's not to the same to say just that she cannot after Sasuke even again (as a lost Sasuke may still be preferable to a dead Naruto), but that what will happen to Sasuke will be equivalent with a dead Naruto.

Faced with that choice, I'd bet she do what Spiderman did. Try and save both, I don't think she would ever truly accept that the possibility of saving both is completely zero, even if it truly were.

[Fruits Basket Fan]

That is why I brought it up.....

I wanted to show that the databooks should not be used that seriously in pairing debates.....They use language that is flowery....

[Fruits Basket Fan]

Here is another reason from one SasukexSakura fan:

NaruSaku.
Can't understand how all of the romantic moments need to be 'interpreted differently' in order to be seen. Shouldn't they be a little more obvious if it's meant to happen in the end? Honestly, when you ask people that generally don't care about pairings, they'll notice either SasuSaku or NaruHina, or think those are more likely. It's what younger children notice as well, even in Shippuden.

.... .....Uhhhh....it depends whether or not they have seen chapters 296, 297, and 343.....

Besides, you are entrusting young children's point of view as another reason why NarutoxSakura cannot happen now since they see things because it seems like a "pretty or cute" couple or "black and white" rather than looking deep down on how Naruto grew to be selfless when it comes to putting Sakura's happiness above his very own and that is why he gave her the the Promise of a Lifetime and how Sakura slowly warmed up to Naruto and stated how wrong her first impression of him was and how he always understood her ....?

[NaruNinpo33]

So.... is anyone a little upset about people going around saying that NaruSaku kissed in the 4th movie? I mean they made it sound like they saw it too... But I didn't fall for it right away!! Mwahahaha. I did hear something small, but I don't know if it's true... Especially since it has no subtitles... O well...

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

They have a small, but romantic convo and are interrupted?...

• Back to top

[Daidoji_Tangen]

So.... is anyone a little upset about people going around saying that NaruSaku kissed in the 4th movie? I mean they made it sound like they saw it too... But I didn't fall for it right away!! Mwahahaha. I did hear something small, but I don't know if it's true... Especially since it has no subtitles... O well...

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

They have a small, but romantic convo and are interrupted?...

Interesting. But the movie is a filler thing and doesn't matter in debates.

• Back to top

[Asuma&TheCigarrete]

Oh my.... ...

One argument I am getting sick of from this SasukexSakura fan is this:

"Sakura confessed her love to Sasuke....It shows that she still loves him.....You need to show proof why Sakura is not in love with Sasuke anymore in part II...."

It's easy to invalidate this argue... just think, when Sakura does it, she recalls some scenes of Naruto transformation into Sasuke in order to trick her... She even say, "You always hated me, dont you?".

But for one that recall, in that same occasion, Naruto (Shapeshifted to Sasuke) have said the exact words she was thinking while seated in that bench, something like "You have a beautifull wide forehead, it makes me want to kiss you! ". So when he tries to act like sasuke (with success tbh), he hurt her feelings.

By that, i can say that in Part I Sakura was in love for Sasuke apearence, and Naruto words...

[Silent Shinobi]

Here is another reason from one SasukexSakura fan:

NaruSaku.
Can't understand how all of the romantic moments need to be 'interpreted differently' in order to be seen. Shouldn't they be a little more obvious if it's meant to happen in the end? Honestly, when you ask people that generally don't care about pairings, they'll notice either SasuSaku or NaruHina, or think those are more likely. It's what younger children notice as well, even in Shippuden.

Wow. That's such as fallacy. One, I'd like to see the research that proves this. Two, this doesn't account for how much of the series these "pairing unbiased" people have seen. Common sense would suggest that someone who has only seen Shippuden would notice only NaruSaku, as there are no SasuSaku/NaruHina moments. If that same person watched from the beginning, but wasn't paying attention to the romantic changes in situation or what's filler (many episodes), they'd already be predisposed to think SS and NH were canon by the time they watched Shippuden.

But! What part of the story is more important as to what's made canon? 3 years in the past? Or the here and now? Tell this fan to get some unbiased viewers to watch only Shippuden, or only read Part 2 of the manga, and then see what they think.

As far as the "You need proof to show that Sakura doesn't love him anymore", This isn't a trial. If someone is claiming something exists, then they need proof it does. The burden of proof falls on them. Our evidence is circumstantial, but it's there - Sakura has shown zero romantic feelings for Sasuke since the start of Part 2. 200+ chapters ago. For all this great love that's supposed to exist, there's NO sign of it.

In comparison, we get repeated hints showing how deeply Sakura cares for Naruto since Part 2 began.

Furthermore, it takes two to tango. Sasuke has given us ZERO instances that have undeniably indicated that he has any romantic feelings for Sakura.

In comparison, Naruto reaffirms his interest in her every time the subject is brought up, consistently, throughout all 382 chapters of Naruto.

So who's the one that needs the proof? Not us.

[Anewhope2]

I had a heated debate about 3 months ago, man it was bad. There was a ton of sasusaku and naruhina fans, i mean it was like 3 to 1. But i won, thanks to herionite's wonderful manifesto, i used that persons logic and it helped me win and made everybody shutup.

[Manda]

I had a heated debate about 3 months ago, man it was bad. There was a ton of sasusaku and naruhina fans, i mean it was like 3 to 1. But i won, thanks to herionite's wonderful manifesto, i used that persons logic and it helped me win and made everybody shutup.

As much as that essay is amazing *has to remember to comment on it later*, I think its better if you could try to use your own arguements instead. You can use the essay as a reference, but don't try to copy/paste, or re-tell everything into your debate. ^^;; Believe me, I've seen people from the opposition claiming Mizura-san's essay is the only source of evidence we have, and its really starting to piss me off. *sigh* I need my Lovely Complex manga to calm myself down...


Anyway, I'm not really a debator (I really suck at it, lol ^^;;;), but I've been reading up on this thread since last year, and I finally want to throw in my two cents as well. I know from being in the Harry/Hermione fandom before DH was released that people everywhere have been complaining that the male and female lead shouldn't end up together because its boring, cliched and annoying. I guess I can understand why people don't like it, since its been used over and over.... but, I mean as long as its executed well in the storyline with canon evidence and depth, it really shouldn't matter, right?

And lot of my OTPs are main boy/main girl too... I actually like this cliche.

[Chidori Mistress]

*REVIVES DEBATE THREAD*

Arguments.........
Let's see.....

- I don't see him loving her romantically is because his affections have always been played out as comedic.

- Hinata desires acknowledgment from HIM and therefore not only fits with the criteria of Naruto's likes but she wants him to see her. It's something Naruto needs. Someone who cares about him when no-one else did. Someone who cares about him before he had to prove him self. It took Sakura so long to see what Hinata already saw.

- The difference between Sakura's crush and Naruto's crush is Sakura's had clear development into something more while Naruto's stayed the same. It never had much time dedicated to it and was never really treated as important to his character. Sakura's feelings for Sasuke was introduced as one of her defining characteristics. And now it's the thing that is pushing her so much to be a better fighter. For Naruto, he seems to accept Sakura's affections for Sasuke and when ever she rejects him.

- If Sakura wanted to look at Naruto in a romantic light, she would. She's had plenty of chances. She makes a conscious effort to reject him, and there's no sign of remorse or embarrassment in those rejections. Why else would she reject him? Because she's conflicted? We haven't seen anything that warrants doubt about her romantic feelings. If it's not because of confliction, there's no reason why she's rejecting him other than she simply knows how she feels, and does not love him romantically.

- Love is a strong word when used to describe Naruto->Sakura. Romantically at least. Platonically, sure, there's love there, as he loves all his precious people, but I don't see where he is IN love with her.

Edit: These aren't my points lol. They just usual arguments I am PRO-NS!