54216 replies to this topic

[Inferno180]

It's true that naruto isn't the best in story design, but it's at least got a decent flow. With the stuff near end at least there is seeable conclusion to the series. Bleach is just scattered and it's the plot that flipped the most. I mean how many power switches and forms has Ichigo taken? Gone from bankai to vizard to full bringer to Quincy but using the power as a soul reaper. Seriously what's the overall plot? Bleach is a real mess. One piece, it's just too god damned long, the story is barely halfway and I've started to loose focus in it with the current toy island arc, it progresses so slow, I mean I liked punk hazard but it's felt like an eternity just in this new arc, mainly cause unlike the war arc in naruto, they have hardly moved at all. I like one piece but the fact Oda focuses on every character to the point we have so many tangents from the main plot, it's just a cycle of focus here there, back to luffy, some crap happens, they fight, luffy beats the biggest bad guy in the arc, they party, they go to the next island. All in the while Oda takes breaks every couple weeks. Seriously I want to know about the void century already, I want to know about one piece, I want to see Blackbeard more, not wait another 6 years for minimal secret plot advancement.

I like one piece, but like any story, when too much is put in, it will drive people away. People want to see the story, I mean it's good in character development but just too long in plot dragging stuff out for too long.

Basically if I had to look at the 3 jump Mangas

Title with bleach, he is scattered, each arc is like it's own ordeal with new stuff, like DBZ. No main overall plot, just villains of the period, the hero just responds to the situation. Aizen makes up the majority if this but literally the plot just jumps after aizens fall, it can be summed up as sub soul reaper Rukia is kidnapped, rescue operation in soul society, Aizen revealed to be a traitor, war starts, more comes to light with the exiled vizard, we get a trip to hueco Mundo, again rescue but for orihime, invasion of the real world, long fight with soul soceity and arrancar, Aizen eventually beaten, fullbringer arc, then now the final arc. Each arc basically it's own.

Kishi has a central plot we can follow, about bonds of brotherhood, but it's just not well, as well connected as it could be, some stuff is just sudden, female characters are his weakness, he did a decent job with sakura, not all characters are as fleshed out as they could be, some stuff mainly in battles like the numerous sharingan techniques just fly out of nowhere. Some stuff is just too sudden.

Oda, his weakness is simple, he drags things out for far too long. He has done wonderfully in character development for all members of the crew but things become left untouched for so long, I'm starting to feel the whole ordeal with one piece, the void century, and the weapons, it ps too obvious they are all connected and the end result may not be enthusiastic. I'm starting to not even give a crap about Blackbeard, now I just see him as, oh yeah he's the guy with 2 fruit powers, not a villian causing the crap directly like he should. I just cannot take Blackbeard seriously if there's no conflict for the longest time, I mean if he becomes prominent suddenly it's like, oh yeah now he is important. I like one piece, but Oda really needs to bring those central plot elements up. I mean yes it's about the journey but if that journey is too dam long, I may not enjoy the journey and just leave. I mean this manga started when most of us were in elementary school. Most of us are in our late teens or early 20/ I'm 21. I don't want to be like what 34 and this still going on. It's just not going to have that appeal even if it lasts that long.

[Luna]

It's true that naruto isn't the best in story design, but it's at least got a decent flow. With the stuff near end at least there is seeable conclusion to the series. Bleach is just scattered and it's the plot that flipped the most. I mean how many power switches and forms has Ichigo taken? Gone from bankai to vizard to full bringer to Quincy but using the power as a soul reaper. Seriously what's the overall plot? Bleach is a real mess. One piece, it's just too god damned long, the story is barely halfway and I've started to loose focus in it with the current toy island arc, it progresses so slow, I mean I liked punk hazard but it's felt like an eternity just in this new arc, mainly cause unlike the war arc in naruto, they have hardly moved at all. I like one piece but the fact Oda focuses on every character to the point we have so many tangents from the main plot, it's just a cycle of focus here there, back to luffy, some crap happens, they fight, luffy beats the biggest bad guy in the arc, they party, they go to the next island. All in the while Oda takes breaks every couple weeks. Seriously I want to know about the void century already, I want to know about one piece, I want to see Blackbeard more, not wait another 6 years for minimal secret plot advancement.

I like one piece, but like any story, when too much is put in, it will drive people away. People want to see the story, I mean it's good in character development but just too long in plot dragging stuff out for too long.

Basically if I had to look at the 3 jump Mangas

Title with bleach, he is scattered, each arc is like it's own ordeal with new stuff, like DBZ. No main overall plot, just villains of the period, the hero just responds to the situation. Aizen makes up the majority if this but literally the plot just jumps after aizens fall, it can be summed up as sub soul reaper Rukia is kidnapped, rescue operation in soul society, Aizen revealed to be a traitor, war starts, more comes to light with the exiled vizard, we get a trip to hueco Mundo, again rescue but for orihime, invasion of the real world, long fight with soul soceity and arrancar, Aizen eventually beaten, fullbringer arc, then now the final arc. Each arc basically it's own.

Kishi has a central plot we can follow, about bonds of brotherhood, but it's just not well, as well connected as it could be, some stuff is just sudden, female characters are his weakness, he did a decent job with sakura, not all characters are as fleshed out as they could be, some stuff mainly in battles like the numerous sharingan techniques just fly out of nowhere. Some stuff is just too sudden.

Oda, his weakness is simple, he drags things out for far too long. He has done wonderfully in character development for all members of the crew but things become left untouched for so long, I'm starting to feel the whole ordeal with one piece, the void century, and the weapons, it ps too obvious they are all connected and the end result may not be enthusiastic. I'm starting to not even give a crap about Blackbeard, now I just see him as, oh yeah he's the guy with 2 fruit powers, not a villian causing the crap directly like he should. I just cannot take Blackbeard seriously if there's no conflict for the longest time, I mean if he becomes prominent suddenly it's like, oh yeah now he is important. I like one piece, but Oda really needs to bring those central plot elements up. I mean yes it's about the journey but if that journey is too dam long, I may not enjoy the journey and just leave. I mean this manga started when most of us were in elementary school. Most of us are in our late teens or early 20/ I'm 21. I don't want to be like what 34 and this still going on. It's just not going to have that appeal even if it lasts that long.

Bolded:  ENOUGH SAID. I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

 

Going by the strictest interpretation, yes. I agree.  Both girls were rejected in a way that suggested they should move on. However, I don't agree that the two rejections meant the same thing, or were meant to be an exact parallel of each other.  Kakashi's rejection of Rin was more about him and what he had needed to learn, while Sasuke's rejection was more about Sakura and what she needed to learn.

 

I didnt even talked about Sasuke's rejection because it cant be compared to Kakashi, Sasuke's was meant to cut bonds and at the same time he give what Sakura wanted, acknowledgement.

I compared the fact that on Kakashi's rejection he said that Rin should move on because of the bad things he did and obviously in a way tells her he doesnt love her, which even look at his vow, "because of Obito and yadda yadda i'll protect you though life and death".

TO the part where the lover ninja, tells Sakura that the guy she loves is bound to be a great guy, in fact both Rin and Sakura realized that their love interests are trash, in different moments but it's the same development isnt it?

Rin got that Obito loved her and Kakashi is trash right on her "confession".

And Sakura got that Naruto loves her and that Sasuke is evil/trash etc... on a different moment but the development is the same.

 

And in the fact that both the girls got this, means that SS and KR are also paralleled on the same way, portraited as some kind of feelings they have to drop because the guys they love are trash and there's a nice guy that was at their side that loves them, it's like those feelings are an obstacle.

That's why i said SS and KR are negative when it comes to pairing.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 18 November 2013 - 10:19 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

I usually don't give a damn what NH/SS says, but there was one comment that irritated me to hell.

So right now Sakura's popularity amongst the Japanese readers are increasing mostly due to her bangs. Every chapter with a Sakura panel has lots of comments on the chapter thread saying that Sakura is cute. (It's a general chapter thread, not a pairing one.) Recently we had the same Sakura cute comments for chapter 654.

"Sakura is cute again this chapter!"

"The bangs really fit her."

"She looks great on the cover!"

All was going fine and dandy, until one guy commented,"That's because there's Sasuke. Sakura looks cute when Sasuke is nearby."

WTF!? Nobody was talking about pairings until this guy had to put in his biased comment. What does Sakura's looks have to do with Sasuke's appearance? Does he think that Sakura went all like, "Sorry, alliance members. Now that Sasuke is here I must be gone for one hour to curl my eyelashes." ?

I don't know why and I am probably overreacting, but this comment annoyed me more than all those pathetic NH/SS arguments ever did.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 18 November 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

I usually don't give a damn what NH/SS says, but there was one comment that irritated me to hell.

So right now Sakura's popularity amongst the Japanese readers are increasing mostly due to her bangs. Every chapter with a Sakura panel has lots of comments on the chapter thread saying that Sakura is cute. (It's a general chapter thread, not a pairing one.) Recently we had the same Sakura cute comments for chapter 654.

"Sakura is cute again this chapter!"

"The bangs really fit her."

"She looks great on the cover!"

All was going fine and dandy, until one guy commented,"That's because there's Sasuke. Sakura looks cute when Sasuke is nearby."

WTF!? Nobody was talking about pairings until this guy had to put in his biased comment. What does Sakura's looks have to do with Sasuke's appearance? Does he think that Sakura went all like, "Sorry, alliance members. Now that Sasuke is here I must be gone for one hour to curl my eyelashes." ?

I don't know why and I am probably overreacting, but this comment annoyed me more than all those pathetic NH/SS comments did.

 

Did this happen in a Japanese thread or a west one?

[ramenanmitsu]

Did this happen in a Japanese thread or a west one?

Japanese one. I almost never go to a Western one.

[BlueStarSaber]

Japanese one. I almost never go to a Western one.

 

Well this one was clearly a troll just trying to spoil the fun clearly I bet most ignored him/her anyway.

[ramenanmitsu]

Well this one was clearly a troll just trying to spoil the fun clearly I bet most ignored him/her anyway.

I don't think he was a troll. He was most likely a NH/SS fan who had to express his opinion in a non-pairing thread. Oh well, this just proves how desperate they are becoming so I should be taking it in a stride. But the sneakiness of the comment is what annoyed me.

[BlueStarSaber]

I don't think he was a troll. He was most likely a NH/SS fan who had to express his opinion in a non-pairing thread. Oh well, this just proves how desperate they are becoming so I should be taking it in a stride. But the sneakiness of the comment is what annoyed me.

 

I see did anyone pay him/her any attention?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Japanese one. I almost never go to a Western one.

I look mostly on 2ch or on my country 55ch but i avoid going on NF and etc...
Last time i went on those sites, One guy obviously NH/SS compared to 631 Minato's comment to DBZ where Goku peeks Bulma's kitten to explain that NS is not going to happen.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 18 November 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

I see did anyone pay him/her any attention?

Nope, nobody really replied to it. It's not supposed to be a pairing thread anyways.

[redragon88]

@KnS

 

You know, I think that when Kakashi told Rin "I was once the trash that would abandon you" is because regardless of future feelings that Kakashi didn't want Rin to love the type of person Kakashi was before Obito changed him.

 

As far as Rin knew Kakashi was still the same as before she was kidnapped, and that's the Kakashi she was about to confess to, the Kakashi that was gonna leave her to die. Kakashi probably didn't want Rin to continue with those feelings she had under false assumptions. Rin probably thought that the old Kakashi would come to her rescue without hesitation, but that was proven wrong during the Gaiden. So even if Kakashi was ok with Rin loving who Kakashi became after Obito changed him, he wanted her to recognize that the Kakashi she had loved until then was gonna let her die, therefore making her reexamine her motivations to love him in the first place.

 

While KakaRin and SasuSaku are very different relationships, I do think that a common ground between them is that Sakura and Rin developed their crushed based on their illusions of who were they supposed to love, that the most cool and talented guy is who would bring them the most happiness. But those illusions were proven wrong with Kakashi almost abandoning Rin if it wasn't for Obito, and the sadness Sasuke brings Sakura. And while Kakashi changed for the better, and Sasuke is destined to a similar fate, the fact remains that the girls based their love on who the guys were before that change.

[BlueStarSaber]

I look mostly on 2ch or on my country 55ch but i avoid going on NF and etc...
Last time i went on those sites, One guy obviously NH/SS compared to 631 Minato's comment to DBZ where Goku peeks Bulma's kitten to explain that NS is not going to happen.

 

People really need to stop saying Mr Kishi is gonna do everything like dragon ball.

 

Nope, nobody really replied to it. It's not supposed to be a pairing thread anyways.

 

That's good just shows they don't crazy into pairings like here in the west.

[ramenanmitsu]

I look mostly on 2ch or on my country 55ch but i avoid going on NF and etc...
Last time i went on those sites, One guy obviously NH/SS compared to 631 Minato's comment to DBZ where Goku peeks Bulma's kitten to explain that NS is not going to happen.

looooool whaaaat!? Some ppl have very......interesting way of thinking......what Minato's comment had to with that particular DBZ scene is a wonder.....

You go on 2ch? Can you read the Japanese? I mostly go there too!

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

looooool whaaaat!? Some ppl have very......interesting way of thinking......what Minato's comment had to with that particular DBZ scene is a wonder.....

You go on 2ch? Can you read the Japanese? I mostly go there too!

Yes i go on 2ch, i dont understand Japansese very well but i'm taking classes of Japanese so i most go there to read the comments and improve it a bit.

[redragon88]

I usually don't give a damn what NH/SS says, but there was one comment that irritated me to hell.

So right now Sakura's popularity amongst the Japanese readers are increasing mostly due to her bangs. Every chapter with a Sakura panel has lots of comments on the chapter thread saying that Sakura is cute. (It's a general chapter thread, not a pairing one.) Recently we had the same Sakura cute comments for chapter 654.

 

You meant the one where she made a constipated face? Gotta love Japan.

"Sakura is cute again this chapter!"

"The bangs really fit her."

"She looks great on the cover!"

All was going fine and dandy, until one guy commented,"That's because there's Sasuke. Sakura looks cute when Sasuke is nearby."

WTF!? Nobody was talking about pairings until this guy had to put in his biased comment. What does Sakura's looks have to do with Sasuke's appearance? Does he think that Sakura went all like, "Sorry, alliance members. Now that Sasuke is here I must be gone for one hour to curl my eyelashes." ?

I don't know why and I am probably overreacting, but this comment annoyed me more than all those pathetic NH/SS arguments ever did.

 

It's probably from that old saying "A girl becomes more beautiful when she's in love".

 

What I'm surprised is that the comment came from a guy. I thought that by now every single guy in the planet hated SS (or maybe he's an NH fan, so he talks about SS by association).

 

I guess it's inevitable. Sakura's wrong love for Sasuke has been taken so out of context to the point that it becomes a parody. It seems people will simply get stuck with the idea of "Sakura will forever love Sasuke since she hasn't stopped until now" instead of "Sakura loving Sasuke is her greatest character flaw, but it won't go away until her character arc is done, which will only happen near the end".

Edited by redragon88, 18 November 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@Reddragon88

Yep, if you look at Sakura's confession she doesnt express why she loves Sasuke, and most importantly, she keeps brining the fact that the old team 7 was the reason for her happiness, she only had a crush on Sasuke and it grow because of the relationship of the team 7, Sasuke didnt do anything specific for her like Kushina had when Minato changed her and other examples.

Which is the reason why people some clings to the bench scene as some sort to explain Sakura's love for Sasuke.

Because there's nothing that justify her love for Sasuke, her flashbacks on the summit pointed out nothing or than mere infatuation.

 

Then on part 2, she wanted to bring Sasuke back but was mostly "why we cant go to the way we were" or to be like the old team 7 again, and even Tsunade didnt put Sasuke on the bingo book because of that, they werent focused on saving Sasuke but rather bringing him back to the village until on the summit it changed it all, Naruto wanting to save Sasuke, and Sakura acknowledging that she only wants a happy ending to all instead of wanting Sasuke to come back to the team 7.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 18 November 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[redragon88]

Nope, nobody really replied to it. It's not supposed to be a pairing thread anyways.

 

What's the division of NS vs NH/SS in japanese threads? At least the one you go to.

 

From what I hear (I think Megi is who mentioned it), in Japan everyone ships whoever they like, but there's a general acceptance that NS is what's meant to happen if a couple becomes canon.

 

Is that how you see things in the places you read?

[咲耶姫]

I usually don't give a damn what NH/SS says, but there was one comment that irritated me to hell.

So right now Sakura's popularity amongst the Japanese readers are increasing mostly due to her bangs. Every chapter with a Sakura panel has lots of comments on the chapter thread saying that Sakura is cute. (It's a general chapter thread, not a pairing one.) Recently we had the same Sakura cute comments for chapter 654.

"Sakura is cute again this chapter!"

"The bangs really fit her."

"She looks great on the cover!"

All was going fine and dandy, until one guy commented,"That's because there's Sasuke. Sakura looks cute when Sasuke is nearby."

WTF!? Nobody was talking about pairings until this guy had to put in his biased comment. What does Sakura's looks have to do with Sasuke's appearance? Does he think that Sakura went all like, "Sorry, alliance members. Now that Sasuke is here I must be gone for one hour to curl my eyelashes." ?

I don't know why and I am probably overreacting, but this comment annoyed me more than all those pathetic NH/SS arguments ever did.

 

I’m really tired of this thing! Ever since Sasuke arrived in the battlefield, everytime Sakura does something, it’s because Sasuke’s here:

 

-She’s badass in chapter 632, it’s because Sasuke’s here

-She asks information to Hinata, it’s because she worries only about Sasuke

-She’s cute, it’s because Sasuke’s here

 

And when I say it like that, it looks like a joke, but they aren’t kidding, they are very serious when they say things like that. Well, some of them are.

 

No wonder why all SS fans say that Sakura could never love Naruto because her love for Sasuke is so unwavering. They are convincing themselves that it’s like that. They really believe that it’s true, but in reality they don’t understand Sakura at all, they still see her as the 12 years ago fan girl she was.

But let’s face it, since Sasuke arrived in the battlefield, she didn’t care at all for him individually. 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

I’m really tired of this thing! Ever since Sasuke arrived in the battlefield, everytime Sakura does something, it’s because Sasuke’s here:

 

-She’s badass in chapter 632, it’s because Sasuke’s here

-She asks information to Hinata, it’s because she worries only about Sasuke

-She’s cute, it’s because Sasuke’s here

 

And when I say it like that, it looks like a joke, but they aren’t kidding, they are very serious when they say things like that. Well, some of them are.

 

No wonder why all SS fans say that Sakura could never love Naruto because her love for Sasuke is so unwavering. They are convincing themselves that it’s like that. They really believe that it’s true, but in reality they don’t understand Sakura at all, they still see her as the 12 years ago fan girl she was.

But let’s face it, since Sasuke arrived in the battlefield, she didn’t care at all for him individually. 

But it's understandable, Sakura only becames relevant because of team 7, it's impossible to deny it, Sakura was on the background the whole fight, until Sasuke come back and Team 7 was once again on the ground, then she started having a more active role.

I blame Kishi for not giving development for not including Sakura on the hatred thing or even on peace.

iT kinda sucks on a manga based in peace and Kishi tells that everything will be resolved with Sasuke being saved.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 18 November 2013 - 12:47 PM.