19964 replies to this topic

[HauntedCake]

Inb4Kikittenrolls

[KeikoxYusuke]

Sorry this is the wrong topic but i was just watching the chikara arc and in 293 aprox 8:45 it looks like Hinata is using medical ninjustu. Where the hell did that come from. I mean i know its a filler but this is rediculus even if the studio is pro-hina.

I think of it as sort of a counter-attack to defend Medic ninjas.

Yes it was such a troll like move, but it only lasted a few secs,and if they praise her for that, and insult the other medics ( mainly Sakura ) then that just shows a double standard.


The way I look at it is, It's getting harder and harder for them to pretend everything Hinata does is "better". ( Not saying that they all think that, but some of them do, and loudly tell us so. ( think Youtube. )


I hope I'm making sense...

[narusakurama]

I think of it as sort of a counter-attack to defend Medic ninjas.

Yes it was such a troll like move, but it only lasted a few secs,and if they praise her for that, and insult the other medics ( mainly Sakura ) then that just shows a double standard.


The way I look at it is, It's getting harder and harder for them to pretend everything Hinata does is "better". ( Not saying that they all think that, but some of them do, and loudly tell us so. ( think Youtube. )


I hope I'm making sense...

They really can not do that , in the manga both Chio and Kakashi say that Sakura will likely be a better ninja than Tsunade herself .. that includes medical ninjutsu . So I'm not bothered about Hinata doing that , no matter how hard she tries she will never be as good as Sakura at it . The problem is that Kishi has lately done a poor job at developing Sakura which might also be one of the reason why the anime team is so daring in developing Hinata .

[StrikerTheNoble]

I think of it as sort of a counter-attack to defend Medic ninjas.

Yes it was such a troll like move, but it only lasted a few secs,and if they praise her for that, and insult the other medics ( mainly Sakura ) then that just shows a double standard.


The way I look at it is, It's getting harder and harder for them to pretend everything Hinata does is "better". ( Not saying that they all think that, but some of them do, and loudly tell us so. ( think Youtube. )


I hope I'm making sense...

yea your making sense. This whole arc was great in my opinion, the characters were likeable, the NS interaction was great, the Hinata scenes were kept to a minimum, the action was great.

But dear god was it filled with plotholes, how did Naruto enter kyuubi chakra mode before he actually mastered it, how did Hinata know med-ninjutsu, where did his seal go, why isnt kabuto a snake, why didnt anybody complain about the ruined town, why arent the kids sadder that their entire village was wiped out, and least but not least what is up with little girl. That is probably the weirdest naruto character ever concieved. She could talk Naruto out of 7 tails mode, which is something even Sakura couldnt do and she seems to posses Chuck Norris like qualities (the stare). Not to mention here sensory abilities that were never explain or why she can hear the sound.

Well ive gone of topic enough.

Edited by StrikerTheNoble, 25 February 2013 - 10:07 PM.

[T XD]

yea your making sense. This whole arc was great in my opinion, the characters were likeable, the NS interaction was great, the Hinata scenes were kept to a minimum, the action was great.

But dear god was it filled with plotholes, how did Naruto enter kyuubi chakra mode before he actually mastered it, how did Hinata know med-ninjutsu, where did his seal go, why isnt kabuto a snake, why didnt anybody complain about the ruined town, why arent the kids sadder that their entire village was wiped out, and least but not least what is up with little girl. That is probably the weirdest naruto character ever concieved. She could talk Naruto out of 7 tails mode, which is something even Sakura couldnt do and she seems to posses Chuck Norris like qualities (the stare). Not to mention here sensory abilities that were never explain or why she can hear the sound.

Well ive gone of topic enough.

Well, it's filler. They can put in it whatever they want, and not going with the ways of the manga. Not to mention, that, probably, they know there's plot holes but don't care about them seeing that fillers aren't meant to be taken seriously like the manga :/

Edited by T XD, 25 February 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[Mathiasosx]

Hi everyone just a warning but I got annoyed by a few NaruHina shippers recently Aka. My sisters friends. A few days ago then proceeded to find some serious Sakura Bashing on deviant art. Basically if you remember my large post following Chapter 615 (Page 364 of this topic) you can expect something similar coming where I plan to put Hinata and Sakura under the Microscope as well as the NaruSaku and NauHina parings. It will be logical it will be mostly backed up. It will be driven by annoyance and it will take time. But once I do post it I hope you agree and enjoy.

Edited by Mathiasosx, 25 February 2013 - 11:06 PM.

[K9ofChaos]

@Sojobo

Quick thought: Perhaps Sasuke will be a hero and allow his clan to die out, as it seems their genetics make them incapable of living a happy life and coexisting with other people? If their brain makes them turn to hatred after losing someone important to them, that means that all new members of the clan will eventually fall to darkness, as losing someone close happens to everyone at some point in their life. Ultimately, this has been the number one problem in the Shinobi World and it needs to fixed somehow. They can't face the possibility of dealing with another Madara or Sasuke a few years down the road, especially not after Naruto is gone. That will start the cycle all over again... Maybe letting the Uchiha clan die out will be Sasuke's way of repenting for the harm that he's caused? [/braces herself to be attacked by all Sasuke/Uchiha fans]

THANK YOU! This is what I've been trying to say! If the Narutoverse ever hopes to achieve peace, then Sasuke must accept that if he tries to repopulate his clan, it would only be a matter of time before another Madara shows up. He should just let his clan die assuming if he becomes a wanderer. That's the only way I'll be okay with a not-dead Sasuke. Bonus points if Sasuke willingly gets himself sterilized and gets canonically confirmed to be Asexual, thus killing all known Sasuke pairings in existence.

[bthug]

Okay, can I have a real talk with you guys. First off I think of you guys as my friends cause well we all convene in each other, regardless of whether its the internet or not, its just they way the world works now, this is especially true since we're all nerds lol.

Now I have to say that NaruSaku has become my obsession and I don't use that word lightly. It has taken over my life, that's all I think about all day...one second I'm confident in NaruSaku, then I'm not, then I am (as you can probably tell by all my bi-polar posts today). Almost to the point where it pains me and is annoying, but I need more. (sound like a druggy I constantly try to think and make sense of all the NaruSaku moments, I mean theirs a reason why they're there and why they're made in the specific way they we're...right? It can't just be me. I honestly don't know why I am so passionate about it, maybe I can relate to Naruto, maybe I desperately want someone like Sakura, maybe I'm living vicariously through Naruto. Maybe cause I get into other ships and I get disappointed, like I was a kid when I really wanted Taiora to happen and didn't, its like when they blame parents for kids having issues, maybe that previous disappointment is so engraved in my mind, that I need this to happen.

Okay so I don't want you to think I'm crazy, insane, suicidal yada yada, but like I'm said I'm just really passionate and I really want this to happen. I guess now that I've poured my soul to you over the internet, can anyone relate to me or has anyone felt like this and has recovered lol.

Whew, it feels to get that off my shoulder.

[sushi.]

Okay, can I have a real talk with you guys. First off I think of you guys as my friends cause well we all convene in each other, regardless of whether its the internet or not, its just they way the world works now, this is especially true since we're all nerds lol.

Now I have to say that NaruSaku has become my obsession and I don't use that word lightly. It has taken over my life, that's all I think about all day...one second I'm confident in NaruSaku, then I'm not, then I am (as you can probably tell by all my bi-polar posts today). Almost to the point where it pains me and is annoying, but I need more. (sound like a druggy I constantly try to think and make sense of all the NaruSaku moments, I mean theirs a reason why they're there and why they're made in the specific way they we're...right? It can't just be me. I honestly don't know why I am so passionate about it, maybe I can relate to Naruto, maybe I desperately want someone like Sakura, maybe I'm living vicariously through Naruto. Maybe cause I get into other ships and I get disappointed, like I was a kid when I really wanted Taiora to happen and didn't, its like when they blame parents for kids having issues, maybe that previous disappointment is so engraved in my mind, that I need this to happen.

Okay so I don't want you to think I'm crazy, insane, suicidal yada yada, but like I'm said I'm just really passionate and I really want this to happen. I guess now that I've poured my soul to you over the internet, can anyone relate to me or has anyone felt like this and has recovered lol.

Whew, it feels to get that off my shoulder.

I've been like that before, but not to that extent and not as frequent. I've read the best chapters of Naruto, or seen the most exciting episodes of my favourite shows, and the entire day I kept thinking what will happen next. It didn't happen in a long period of time, but at some points, I guess I wanted to live another life in another world, because the one I had was terrible for certain reasons. Fiction was one way to temporarily escape, when I needed a break. I remember how obsessed I was with Smallville when I was little. Then it quit, I found out how it ended, you can say that was my goal and reason to watch it. I even remember how I used to google "narusaku" and "will Naruto and Sakura end up with eachother" all the time. XD It didn't take over my life, and it didn't prevent me from enjoying hanging out with my friends though. I know what makes my life worth living, it's not Naruto, it's my real friends. Now this is like years ago because now I have high school to worry about, I am much more mature and able to deal with most things irl now. I grew up and don't escape, I walk through life. Don't miss the journey, mkay? ^^ I take one thing at a time, and I am able to divide fiction with real life.I don't take it too serious, it's a hobby. Like cooking. I love cooking, and drawing too.

Ouch, I think I'm getting too personal. Whatever helps your situation. I don't think you're insane. Not even the worst massmurders are decleared insane XD

Edited by sushi., 26 February 2013 - 01:12 AM.

[redragon88]

Okay, can I have a real talk with you guys. First off I think of you guys as my friends cause well we all convene in each other, regardless of whether its the internet or not, its just they way the world works now, this is especially true since we're all nerds lol.

Now I have to say that NaruSaku has become my obsession and I don't use that word lightly. It has taken over my life, that's all I think about all day...one second I'm confident in NaruSaku, then I'm not, then I am (as you can probably tell by all my bi-polar posts today). Almost to the point where it pains me and is annoying, but I need more. (sound like a druggy I constantly try to think and make sense of all the NaruSaku moments, I mean theirs a reason why they're there and why they're made in the specific way they we're...right? It can't just be me. I honestly don't know why I am so passionate about it, maybe I can relate to Naruto, maybe I desperately want someone like Sakura, maybe I'm living vicariously through Naruto. Maybe cause I get into other ships and I get disappointed, like I was a kid when I really wanted Taiora to happen and didn't, its like when they blame parents for kids having issues, maybe that previous disappointment is so engraved in my mind, that I need this to happen.

Okay so I don't want you to think I'm crazy, insane, suicidal yada yada, but like I'm said I'm just really passionate and I really want this to happen. I guess now that I've poured my soul to you over the internet, can anyone relate to me or has anyone felt like this and has recovered lol.

Whew, it feels to get that off my shoulder.

You know, it wasn't until I joined this site that I realized that Tai x Sora was such a huge issue with so many people.

Since the romance side of Digimon wasn't really important as it is with Naruto I didn't really care. My only reaction to seeing Sora like Matt was "Really? That's so random. ". I was more into the plot itself, which wasn't really as good as the original series but I guess it was acceptable.

If it makes you feel better I heard that there where like about 10 different writers for Digimon 02 and that some changed during the middle of the production. Maybe that's why there's a good amount of inconsistencies in the series here and there. I heard that some story lines of the plot itself were cut due to the changes in writers. Basically, Digimon 02 was a creative mess.

Given that Naruto is the concept of a single man and not many different writers the chances of something like Digimon happening here are next to none. And about your self admitted obsession with the pairing, I can only recommend that you try to find other hobbies. The entertainment culture is pretty big so try to find a tv show, movie, or even other manga that can entice you. As much as I like Naruto it isn't even my favorite manga, that title goes to One Piece, you could check that manga out, I highly recommend it.

[sushi.]

As much as I like Naruto it isn't even my favorite manga, that title goes to One Piece, you could check that manga out, I highly recommend it.

OP is my fav too! And Avatar. OP and Avatar, then Naruto. Naruto was my favourite, but it went downhill. XD

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Aww. I finally finished my LAP for a counter against those NH reasons and the thread closes. Why must the world hate me??? That took me forever. No way in hell I'm typing up that time-consuming awesome post again.

[Qia]

Aww. I finally finished my LAP for a counter against those NH reasons and the thread closes. Why must the world hate me??? That took me forever. No way in hell I'm typing up that time-consuming awesome post again.

Did you at least save it? I would love to read it. . It is really too bad it had to be closed.

[sushi.]

Aww. I finally finished my LAP for a counter against those NH reasons and the thread closes. Why must the world hate me??? That took me forever. No way in hell I'm typing up that time-consuming awesome post again.

You can always post it here. I am sure that person who caused the mods to close the thread won't reply anyway.

Just go back to the page you were replying in and copy the post. Naah, it would be a pain if you don't have it though.XD

[kirabook]

You know, I've been thinking about Hinata's confession and her actions more recently in 615.

This isn't a pro or anti pairing thing really, I'm just trying to form my thoughts here.

The general idea I have is that Hinata's confession and what happened in 615 are all connected. I'm not saying this is good or bad or anything, but it's just....weird. She jumped in there to confess, believing that she wouldn't have another change to do so and didn't even think to actually help Naruto out of his situation. She just jumped in and took the bullet for no reason.

Then, in 615, she did the exact same thing and got her own cousin killed, but feels high enough to lecture Naruto about keeping his nindo in tact. After really thinking about it for a bit, I can't help but think of Hinata as... disgusting. I mean.... I don't know. It's just so wrong and terrible. Why would someone like her, who jumps in constantly risking her life without thinking, get to lecture someone like Naruto? Hinata hasn't learned anything. Yeah, she got a confidence boost, but what about everything else? Who is she to tell Naruto he should strengthen up and not give in?

Why did Kishi think it was ok to 'reward' Hinata with her wish when she didn't deserve it at all? It really makes no sense to me, probably doesn't make sense to you either because I'm having a hard time expressing my thoughts into a coherent sentence.

[tricksie]

You can always post it here. I am sure that person who caused the mods to close the thread won't reply anyway.

Just go back to the page you were replying in and copy the post. Naah, it would be a pain if you don't have it though.XD

Yeah, that topic overlapped this one. So definitely if you had posts written up, then they could still be posted here. Hope that helps!

[Qia]

Then, in 615, she did the exact same thing and got her own cousin killed, but feels high enough to lecture Naruto about keeping his nindo in tact. After really thinking about it for a bit, I can't help but think of Hinata as... disgusting. I mean.... I don't know. It's just so wrong and terrible. Why would someone like her, who jumps in constantly risking her life without thinking, get to lecture someone like Naruto? Hinata hasn't learned anything. Yeah, she got a confidence boost, but what about everything else? Who is she to tell Naruto he should strengthen up and not give in?

Why did Kishi think it was ok to 'reward' Hinata with her wish when she didn't deserve it at all? It really makes no sense to me, probably doesn't make sense to you either because I'm having a hard time expressing my thoughts into a coherent sentence.

Uhh...the way that's put... I've gotta disagree here sorry . It's not like Hinata asked Neji to sacrifice his life for her. Plus, this was also about Naruto, not just Hinata. And again...lecture? Did you really see it that way? All she did in that moment was explain Neji's words to Naruto so that he'd "wake up" from being stunned at his death the way he was. That's why I don't see her as "disgusting". And what do you mean by who is she? No matter how you look at it, she's a comrade of Naruto's, so of course she'll be there for him, especially as the person who looks up to him. And of course she may get carried away sometimes, but I'm also hoping that Naruto's words to her before about her being strong on her own may have knocked some sense into her, even if she still has to protect Naruto and is willing to die for him along with everyone else.

She does have many fans, you know? If everyone's supposed to get a shining moment, that's all 615 was for Hinata's character: her shining moment. The moment where she actually showed to everyone, especially her own clan, that she can speak up and use her own voice. It's all Kishi can really do for her character at this point. And she needed that development. But that's what I think

Edited by Qia, 26 February 2013 - 03:37 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Well, alright. I'm going to share this post, simply because it took me a lot of time and work. I'm not letting that go to waste! LAP alert! As usual.

1) Hinata's Interference during the Pain fight
Do you not think that the fight had gone beyond the point of interference? He was pinned and unable to move, and moments from being... captured/killed/unsure-but-bad-things. Hinata admitted, largely, to being selfish (because she knew she would be unlikely to be able to save him).
Naruto had, seemingly, already given in to the idea that he would end up being captured - but still have largely succeeded in protecting his friends (assuming Pain simply left). It was also implied that he was at the limits of his Nindo (without relying on the fox and endangering his friends).
Hinata's Nindo overlapped and conflicted somewhat with his. Naruto's desire to not have his friends interfere was ultimately a desire for the same thing that was about to happen in chapter 615. Hinata was not about to give up on herself, or on Naruto - and decided that it was time to act regardless of the odds and consequences be damned. ~Aim64C of NB

It's not about Naruto not needing help. He surely did, quite obviously. He was on the brink of being captured and his spirit was almost crushed. Someone needed to come and help him, he could no longer do everything alone. That's not why Hinata was being selfish. Her sacrifice to risk her life to protect Naruto was noble, it deserves some form of praise. I would never criticize her for that. However, her actual confession is when I can't help but facepalm and be annoyed. She confessed her love for him because she knew she would never be able to again. Hinata already knew she would probably die, but her primary motivation was to not have anymore regrets and express herself freely. True, she genuinuely wants to protect Naruto but her own feelings overrided it. Naruto is very protective of his friends, he didn't want to lose anyone. Hinata knew this but the problem here is that she just made him feel more angry and guilty by telling him how she truly felt. Hinata was doing this because she loves him. Love indicates a more distinct devotion and naturally moves people to risk their life more; Naruto would know.

So to see this, after losing so many people already, and the actual motivation for Hinata's "death", it would kill him on the inside. "It's all my fault! If Hinata didn't feel this way about me, none of this would of happened!" is how he would feel. So, in reality, Hinata's confession is wholly selfish. She did not relieve Naruto of his burden, she just made it heavier. If you compare this to Sakura, it was the exact opposite during the Tenchi Bridge. She cared so much, she even decided to take the entire burden of bringing Sasuke back on herself, so she would not lose him and see him destroy himself. It had little to do with herself, with Hinata it had everything to do with herself.

I also just realized another reason why Hinata was being selfish here. Remember her fight against Neji? She fought so hard and so doggedly because she wanted Naruto to acknowledge her abilities and see how strong she could be. It was a main motivation. She even said: " No ... I can't give up! Not now. I can't look bad in front of the person I admire most." My point is, all she wants is to show off how amazing and great she can be to validate her own worth. She deliberately tries to show off for Naruto. Her confession? Exactly the same. She couldn't give up because she wanted him to acknowledge the lengths she would go for him. It's always like that. Hinata expects things from him. It's also why her love for Naruto is selfish, not selfless.

You say Naruto & Hinata have the same nindo. It's true in theory, she did copy/paste it and appreciates the sentiment. But the heart of it couldn't be more different. Naruto's inner strength and determination does not need to be constantly roused by "I can't look bad like this! I can't!". He wants acknowledgement for Sasuke and others, but he's so fixed to prove what he can do for himself. He has his own beliefs and simply hates giving up because he hates it, not because he would look bad in front of others all the time (True, it is a part of him but my point is, he's more independent from it). Naruto doesn't worry about looking bad in front of others, he almost doesn't care compared to Hinata.

Hinata only gets strength and determination in every instance because she doesn't want to look bad, usually in front of Naruto. Naruto already has his determination and courage, he doesn't need acknowledgement for it to come about. This is why their nindos are only the same in words, the motivation behind it is very, very different.

2) Hinata understands Naruto more than Sakura ever could
She had a cousin who hated her existence - a father who considered her useless and turned her over to Kurenai as a lost cause. She's spent a considerable portion of her life merely wanting to be recognized as valid.
As for Sasuke - she's chased after Naruto and held a torch for Naruto for some time - while that's understanding on a tangent - it's something for her to empathize with. Though true empathy is, to some degree, understanding that there can only be so much empathy - so much understanding. She's also lost Neji - who was something of a brother, but a slightly different context than Naruto with Sasuke (though she did have to deal with Neji being caught up in revenge).
Losing a Sensei... well, she's currently lost Neji - who, if I remember correctly, is stated to have been training her. Again - something of a tangent and not exact. Though, for Naruto losing his sensei was less of losing a teacher and more of him losing a father (after not having one). Hinata was thrown to Kurenai by her father with the parting words of: "Don't care, she's useless to me."
There are small parallels that can give hinges for empathy. But, as I said - empathy is also understanding that you can never be the other person or completely experience their pain.

If Sakura understood Naruto better, then why was Sakura unable to reach through to Naruto's walls of "I don't deserve..." that Hinata so effortlessly shattered?
The answer is simple: Sakura doesn't really see that the wall exists. She hasn't been lonely - not like Naruto has. She's never felt the isolation of no one wanting you. The only thing she really empathizes strongly with Naruto is her feelings of loss over Sasuke... and even then - Sasuke was, quite literally, a brother to Naruto (or the only thing he could begin to identify as a brother). He was a friend and eye-candy to Sakura. ~Aim64C

So he's still using this argument, huh? Wow. Hinata can relate to Naruto in the sense that they were both at once point unwanted and shunned. They were both failures. But you wanna know why I don't like Hinata and don't find NH inspiring? She saw how much Naruto was suffering and kept trying, no matter what. She could relate but, somehow, her shyness prevented her from moving forward with him and really being there for him in his time of loneliness and need. Instead, she used it to improve herself and watched him suffer instead. That's very selfish of her, I'm actually angry at her sometimes when I think about it. How dare she do nothing to help someone who was so obviously in pain? He had no one, felt like one cared. And Hinata abused that for her own improvement. Naruto's my favorite character, so that really makes me mad at her. It's almost as bad as not caring IMO.

Really? You're practically insulting both Naruto and SasuNaru by even trying to compare that to Hinata. She called Neji "brother" but nothing seen so far has proven to us she cares nearly as much about Neji as Naruto does about Sasuke. It's entire wrong IMO. One of the focal points of his character is his bond with Sasuke and how much he loves him (platonically), it means so much to him. With Hinata, nothing matters more than Naruto and in the beginning, she was afraid of Neji. Look at how abruptly she stopped her tears when she lost him and then thought about Naruto's warm, strong hand. Try and switch that with Sasuke dying and Naruto being a witness. He would break down, give up on almost everything for a moment, sob uncontrollably for so much longer, and then see himself as a personal failiure. Hinata showed none of this, she got over it unbelievably fast. NejiHina & SasuNaru is a weak comparision, so much. So no, barely no relating on this.

That's entirely different. Hinata had to deal with the fact that her father had given up on her, it was a terrible feeling. But for Naruto, he knew how proud Jiraiya was of him, he just had to cope with the loss and grief he was feeling. Hinata did not lose her father, she just had to prove herself to him in the end. Which she has now has, so everything's okay for her. Naruto's loss of Jiraiya was permenant, he could not change it. That's why Shikamaru was chosen to give him the pep talk. He understood perfectly what he was going through, Asuma died before his eyes. If Hinata understood as much as you say, then Kishimoto clearly would have chosen her to have a pep talking segment. But wait. She doesn't know the death of a father and what's more, she has no idea how close Naruto is to Jiraiya. Stop trying to force something that isn't there.

And you know why not only is all of this false, even if it was true, it would still be meaningless? It's because Hinata never did anything for Naruto that would show she understands him that much. This "empathy" you speak of, other then the loneliness, isn't even existent. She does not know his connection to Sasuke nor his connection to Jiraiya. If she's ignorant, she doesn't understand him at all. You need more than undertstanding, you need to back up that understanding with support and awareness. Neither Hinata has. That's why she doesn't understand Naruto, all she sees is his nindo. Nothing more, nothing less.

And Sakura hasn't? Did you forget her semi-lonely childhood until Ino? She has felt unwanted and undeserving. She always had her family, but she had no friends until Ino met her crying alone. Everyone else either bullied her for her forehead or ignored her. Only her family truly acknowledged and loved her. And then she set out to gain acknowledgement of people, specifically Ino and Sasuke, so she could prove something to herself. And what's more, the object of her affections ignored her efforts to have him notice her, even harshly criticizing her on many ocassions. She felt unwanted and that often took a blow to her confidence. Honestly, even though Sakura's childhood loneliness is average, she parallels Naruto to in her own way, especially considering she wanted acknowledgement to validate her own worth (Rivalry. She wanted to step out of Ino's shadow and become her own person, just like Naruto with Sasuke). Hinata's desire for acknowledgement is more one-dimensional.

Naruto's walls of "I don't deserve ..." aren't even something Hinata's aware of. She did not effortlessly shatter his wall, all she was doing was repeating the same thing that Neji had been telling him in 614: People are willing to die for him so he must honor that sacrifice. Absolutely anyone could of done that, Hinata was just chosen to really drive it home since she's Neji's cousin and also, for character development. There is no special feel about that scene. Naruto has his wall still front and center, it's far from being destroyed. He's still selfless to a risky fault, still risking his life for Sasuke when he could die, and still feeling like he doesn't deserve anything. I don't see how 615 has anything to do with wall-breaking and deserving, it was just "Don't forget your friends!"

Doesn't see? You're joking, right? Sakura sees every one of Naruto's walls, she knows him that well. In fact, all she's been doing is trying to break down those walls so she can help him and allow him to open up for his sake, just like she did with her failed attempt with Sasuke in Part 1. She knows Naruto doesn't feel he deserves anything, she tried to make him see that he was wrong during her confession. She also knows how self-destructive his efforts to bring Sasuke back are, she's seen it with her own eyes. Both at the Tenchi Bridge and the Kage Summit. And what's more, she's worried over it. She doesn't want to lose him because of Sasuke, she can't stand it, even though she's not the only reason. For now, she's accepted Naruto's resolve to bring Sasuke back because she wants T7 together again like him. But she's still worried about his "We'll both die!" speech, it's obvious. Her reaction wasn't shown for no reason. Knowing Sakura, she will not let that go without confronting him about it. Not only that, but she sees that Naruto's tendency to do everything alone will get him killed. Hinata's speech was not about that, it was about honoring your friend's memories. So many instances of her trying to get him to stop doing this is so obvious, but I'll bring in the most recent one.

"Naruto ... you saved Konoha and now you're trying to save the entire shinobi world. You're always faced with these insurmountable tasks ... this time, no matter what you say, we will be together. Not just me ... but ... everyone." - Sakura Haruno

Sakura doesn't have to understand exactly what Naruto's going through, that's not what matters. I've already told him this before. She sees all of the 4 conflicts Naruto has and tries to make it easier for him, either emotionally or physically. She can't relate, but attempts to relieve him of it. She has acted on all of them to help him while Hinata does absolutely nothing. Jinchuriki fate= Asked how to remove the bijuu, only to burst into tears when she realized he was being hunted and would die. Later lamented on never doing enough for him after realizing she couldn't learn how to stabilize the Kyuubi. Loner Complex= "We'll be together" speech, 469-470, Tenchi Bridge, Remembering how she promised to be with Naruto when she nearly got poisoned by Sasori, probably more to come. Selfless to a fault= Tenchi Bridge, 469-470, Sai's revelation. Pains with Sasuke= 469-470, Tenchi Bridge, 2nd failed attempt to bring Sasuke back, Sai's revelation. She knows Naruto's 4 inner conflicts and tries to help him, while Hinata remains elsewhere. It's safe to say that Sakura not only understands Naruto better than Hinata, she's there for him a lot more too.

Also, surprisingly, even though I hate SS, I'm annoyed he referred to Sasuke as "eyecandy" for Sakura. She's not that shallow and endured much pain/suffering because of her love for him.

3) Yamato himself was enraged at Sakura for her fake confession
We like to cite Yamato's line at the Heaven and Earth bridge as proof that Sakura possibly loves Naruto.
However, his reaction during Sakura's confession was one of suspicion and anger. If this doesn't almost retcon his line from before, it at the very least shows that he could tell Sakura was lying about loving Naruto at that moment.

As Slexstrem already pointed out, Yamato's original expression was shock and embarrassment. He was not angry until Sakura started acting even more strangely by saying give up on Sasuke. He knows how much Naruto values saving him, so of course he'd be naturally angry over it. Makes sense. It in no way debunks his unfinished statement. It was 100% obvious he was referring to her falling in love with him.

4) Sai acknowledges Sakura loves Sasuke
We use Sai's flashback as proof of Naruto's love for Sakura. But after the fake confession, while Sai is revealing Sakura's true intentions for confessing to Naruto, he states that because of Sakura's love for Sasuke, she plans to kill him herself to make sure Sasuke doesn't sink any lower on the path of darkness. She may have Naruto's feelings at heart, but her main motivation remains to be Sasuke himself.

That was part of the reason. Her confession was to protect both her teammates, she loves both of them. But the difference is that she specifically put Naruto higher than Sasuke. His safety was far more important to her than bringing Sasuke back, she made it abundantly clear when she screamed in his face over it. There was no way you could doubt her sincerity there, her fury was telling. If Sasuke truly was more important to her, then she would have gone and killed Sasuke first herself. Instead, she didn't. So yeah, whether she loves him or not romantically, she does love Naruto more than Sasuke. If she lost him, Sakura would cope with it far worse then if it was only Sasuke (Of course, she'd be heartbroken then too. But Naruto's prescence is bigger.)

And I will also add, Sai was only going off of what Naruto was saying, it's not like he can really safely say. He never saw how Sakura and Sasuke interacted with each other in Part 1. And, something most people overlook, Sai seems to think Sakura actually was telling the truth about loving Naruto. His wording was odd: "She came to lessen your burden by releasing the promise and confessing her love for you." -Sai. He never said she was lying, he actually implied the opposite. Sai apparently thinks she loves both of them. It's a NS hint, but it doesn't mean he's right. We'll have to see with Sakura herself later.

As to an analysis of Sakura herself:
While Sakura was awesome indeed during the Kazekage Rescue Arc, she has regressed horribly since then:
-Despite having specifically trained in evasion as a medic, one of the first things she does at the Heaven and Earth bridge is get knocked out and depend on Yamato to rescue her. When she awakes, she then runs crying towards Naruto, who is in his Four-Tails form. This serves as a reminder of her past role as a useless damsel in distress who simply serves to bring drama into a situation.
-The same thing happens in their first encounter with Sasuke, where she is the first one to get knocked out, and stays out of action for the rest of the confrontation.
-After the destruction of Konoha by Pain, she is the one who screams out helplessly for Naruto, again fulfilling her role as a person on the sidelines simply used to add dramatic flair to a situation
-During the second Team 7 confrontation, she puts herself in a damsel in distress situation as Sasuke is about to drive a Chidori through her chest. It's up to Kakashi to come and save her.
Later on in the fight the same exact thing happens again: she idiotically puts herself in danger and Naruto has to come to her rescue at the very last second.
-Despite being the one to uncover the plot involving White Zetsu, Sakura herself is tricked the next day by the Zetsus in disguise, and once again, Naruto must come rescue her from her damsel in distress role.

Really, it's as if Kishi dedicated an arc to her character development, then as soon as it was it was over let her return to the way she was for majority of Part 1: a useless damsel in distress. In this sense, she is not deserving of her title as the apparent "heroine" of the series.

Urgh! This NH fan's impression of Sakura makes me so angry, it's the one thing I really can't stand. He claims he doesn't hate Sakura to me before, but describes her as selfish, useless, and immature. My Sakura fan inside strongly disagrees with him over this.

- It's a crime to get hit once by accident? She's not perfect and she recovered pretty quickly, didn't she? Besides, in her defense, she was still in shock at what she was seeing, of course she wouldn't pay attention entirely. It was a very emotionally straining situation for her. It's not like Hinata hasn't allowed herself to get overcome with emotion before, she does it a lot. Look at her confession. And I hate how he criticizes Sakura when all she was doing was trying to help Naruto so he doesn't have to suffer. Reckless it was, but so was Hinata during her confession. Though Hinata was being selfish, Sakura was not.
- Um, Sakura never got knocked out. She was about to try and hit Sasuke when Yamato jumped in front of her to protect her. Sakura was conscious the entire time, she was just frozen and unsure of herself afterwards because she hadn't seen Sasuke in such a long time. He's her weakness, after all. We must remember that. Of course it doesn't do her justice but at least she attempted to hit Sasuke. That's a long way from the Sakura she once was in Part 1. She was already slowly showing signs of growing out of her submissive behavior. She does this again when she tries to kill him twice and then yells at Sasuke for bad-mouthing Naruto during the Kage Summit.
- Yet you convienently leave out how she rescued a little girl and her grandmother by downing a summon in one shot and then taking up a leadership role to organize everyone in the crisis they were in, healing as many as possible. Sorry, that overpowers her one damsel in distress moment. Sakura was mostly active and very effective during the Pain arc. She just lost hope when the village was entirely destroyed, so she called Naruto's name because she believes in his strength and he's always there when she needs him. I thought that was a nice moment.
- I can't argue that one there, but the problem is I'm more sympathetic of it. She almost killed Sasuke and was trying to shoulder the burden of everything for Naruto's sake. But it's Sasuke. Not only is he insanely strong, he's still her weakness. She's getting there but at least she was actually trying to do something instead of doing nothing. It's like she never wins. Sakura does nothing, she's called a deadweight burden. Sakura does something, she's called an epic screw-up who's still useless. Well, HATERS GONNA HATE
- How dare he criticize her for this? Sakura is just a very compassionate individual, it's hard for her to turn away and not help people. There was a chance if that person wasn't a Zetsu. She did it because she cares. And yeah, Naruto saves her again, but guess what? I love how you ignore Hinata who also got saved and played the damsel in distress role, then immediately going into a "I can't do anything" mode.

Sakura may not be executed to her full potential, but it's not just her. A lot of the female characters get shafted in spotlight, none of them are nearly as strong as the males or put in such a well-developed light entirely. Even your precious Hinata suffers from this, worse than Sakura. She just revolves around Naruto, there's almost nothing else to her other than that. She's underdeveloped.

What I don't understand is how he hates on Sakura for not doing much, when Hinata has lost in every major battle she was in. Every. One Yet he doesn't criticize her when she has also allowed her emotions to get the better of her too many times to count? That's so biased and majorly hypocritical. Sakura has at least won one major fight and was epic/active in it, beating an Akatsuki member. Hinata does not have this title. She is the epitome of "damsel in distress that is only used to add drama in situations". Look no further than her confession. Hinata= Plot device no jutsu.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 26 February 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[kirabook]

I can' think of the word I want to use for her mini-speech to Naruto. I'm not saying he didn't need that speech, but why did Kishi use Hinata to give that particular speech to Naruto?

For the most part, I do blame her for his death. That was the second time she just jumped in front of Naruto without putting much thought into it. Those spikes would have impaled her along with Naruto due to her close proximity. I feel she wouldn't have helped the situation at all and only ended up killing her both. Similarly to her confession, it would have been wiser for her to get a mini team together to distract Pein and free Naruto from the rods, but instead she just jumps in front of Pein, knowing she couldn't actually do anything to help, not that she actually tried to help Naruto and only went after Pein.

Instead of just jumping in front of Naruto, she shouldn't have gotten him out of the way. Many others were able to dodge the bullet, I don't think it's unreasonable to think she could have gotten Naruto out of the way. Neji didn't have to risk his life for Hinata (and I wish he didn't), but he felt it was his duty to protect the main household, I think she should be more aware of herself and others around her.

It wasn't a lecture she gave Naruto, but in general, I just felt that.... Hinata just isn't the right person to do it. Any of Naruto's friends would have made more sense to me. I feel like 615 is her confession with worse consequences. Hinata could have died twice, the first time I feel she hurt more than helped. The second time, I would think she'd actually face consequences this time, but instead, Neji does, and then she continues on with her speech as if she had nothing at all to do with his death. She mentions his death, yes, but I feel like she hasn't taken any responsibility ever for her mistakes.

I'm not saying she should be a perfect character, none of the Naruto characters are and I have problems with all of them. (Except Minato, Jiraiya, and Kushina. ), but it rubs me the wrong way when some things are glazed over or true consequences are just forgotten. Naruto's past and family heritage are also one of these things, but that's a different topic.

Ah, rambles. All of it. Basically, I do not like the idea of Hinata, the one who definitely had a big role in Neji's death from a 2nd suicidal attempt to 'help' Naruto gets to give a big speech to Naruto right after said 2nd attempt. Maybe if that whole jumping in front of him and Neji's dying bit didn't happen, it wouldn't seem so wrong for her to reinforce his nindo that she's 'borrowed', but when I really look at it, it's just weird.

[Qia]

As cruel as this may sound, I think the only reason Kishi made Hinata give that speech was because...well...what else can you do with her character at this point? . I know that sounds bad but...if her fans really expect some kind of moment for her as a background character that hasn't really been very developed, and it's something Kishi promised to give the K11, then she has to get something...small? She got to hold Naruto's hand...just not in the way some Hinata fans may have expected; there was a reason behind Naruto doing it, after all. So, all she can do at this point is support Naruto and that's it. Sure the speech could have gone to someone else, but if there isn't a huge purpose for Hinata right now except to become the head of the clan later on well....she might as well be shown being able to actually speak around others.

@RomanceG Awesome LAP, as always. Thank you for sharing . I wonder if Chatte will post this one too .

Edited by Qia, 26 February 2013 - 04:14 AM.