3. Ummm....this person's point? Because it's used as comic relief, it can't happen? Kishimoto has precendent for comic relief relationships being very real.
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Sasuke saved Sakura just as much if not more than Naruto in part 1. Remember the FoD against Orochimaru? The sound nins? Hell, Sasuke was willing to sacrifice his life for Sakura and Naruto against Gaara.
For the Gaara fight, Naruto clarified his reason for fighting to be "protecting his precious people". People, not person, as in plural. Sakura only got special mention during the fight because she was being actively crushed by sand, and thus was the only one definitely screwed if Naruto didn't beat Gaara ASAP.
The PoaLT is a nice scene, but Naruto's feelings for Sakura are treated as a joke the vast majority of the time. The ratio of serious to joke scenes leans FAAAAAAAAR more towards joke, especially compared to Sakura's and Hinata's feelings. Personally, I would consider it a bad sign if Naruto's feelings are only taken seriously long enough to show he's seriously willing to give up on them.
Methinks you may overestimate me. I think Mizura and Nick are better, but I will respond in any case with another LAP.
From the quote above, I'd gather that is his point. The comedic relief angle does speak one way or another on whether they are genuine from Naruto's perspective. The angle is not really all that dependent on that. It can be done regardless of whether they are or are not genuine.
Based on what I'm reading he's saying that because they are for comic relief that this is evidence that Kishimoto doesn't intend to do anything with them and that Naruto's romantic feelings toward Sakura existed for the purpose of laughter.
One, NaruSaku is clearly related, at least, to the angry cliche' romance type that exists in many Shounen. While Kishimoto goes well beyond this and isn't a slave to it (like Takahashi appears to be), it suggests that there is no reason that the comedic angle of their interactions automatically kills off any hope. In fact, those type of romantic relationships are filled with comedic moments and they still end up together. I do have one caveat, I know that because one person does that does not prove another will. However, he's acting like the comedic angle just kills off any romantic possibilities or is somehow truly indicative of what Kishimoto thinks of the relationship and elevates well above something like the promise of a lifetime in the process. I don't see why this is so, and he doesn't offer any explanation to that effect.
My point is that there is history that such comedy does not automatically indicate that the author thinks the relationship meaningless for any other purpose. Moreover, why include the promise of a lifetime at all if that's what he thinks? Why have Naruto speak so openly about his pain and understanding how she feels, if he thinks it means nothing? His feelings are an important part of one of the more dramtic moments in part 1 and the manga. There are many ways Naruto's departure could have been handled. If they only exist as comedy, why even bother?
Third, the Promise of a Lifetime isn't the only serious moment between the two. There are others. Granted, most are friendship, but given the starting point this would be expected. The NaruSaku arguments focus on the gradual and incremental development that's continued over the course of the manga. NaruHina doesn't have this at all.
Hinata's feelings....If we want to talk about bad signs the fact that this relationship has gond nowhere for 200 chapters is a really bad sign. The fact that her team gets their moment and she pairs off with Naruto and has yet to do or say anything significant is a bad sign. I think Kishimoto's inattention to her character since the Chuunin exams speaks volumes about her relative importance. And 287, didn't that end with Hinata fainting? It's a comedy moment, guess it doesn't mean much, at least under the standard being applied to NaruSaku. This standard is used constantly against NaruSaku and NaruSaku moments, so it's only fair I use it too.
At least with NaruSaku, there has been development in both directions. Hinata has not made any progress with Naruto in a very long time and there is no evidence he'll ever reciprocate. For all the seriousness of her feelings this relationship has gone nowhere. At least with SasuSaku, there remains potential because Sasuke remains relevant to the story. Hinata hasn't. She has been as important to part w to as Neji, Lee, Tenten, Chouji, and Ino. His argument focus solely on the comedic moment and disregards all other surrounding development. Hinata herself, right now, is a testament that just because the overall relationship was treated seriously initially doesn't mean Kishimoto holds it in higher regard or that it will amount to anything at all.
Finally, he really really downplays Promise of a Lifetime. He talks alot about Sasuke saving Sakura. Alright. In all of those situations, his options are to let her die or not let her die. He takes a risk, but he doesn't have to give up on anything at all. It doesn't cost him his revenge, for example. Let's look back on the demon brothers. This is still before Sasuke develops in any serious way and the prior interaction with Sakura he called her annoying. And he still protected her. Based on his behavior before, you would be hardpressed to argue he genuinely cares about her, and he still steps in front of her then. So FoD...you make way too much of it.
I think he uses the wrong scenes as arguments. The scene I would use to compare to the promise of a life time is 181. Sakura confess, and for the sake of argument I'll simply assume the stance most favorable to SasuSaku in talking about her confession. I'd probably dispute that, but that is another argument for another day. She even offers to go with him, thought she basically retracts the offer when the says he will scream. Faced with that what does Sasuke do? He thanks her for her concern, knocks her out, and leaves.
What doesn't he do? He doesn't stay for her and train in the village despite him thinking it inferior. He doesn't promise to come back for her nor does he saying anything about doing this for her or doing it protect her from Itachi so that they can live without him hanging over their head. Everything that follows suggests he left for himself and has no intention of ever returning. He chose his revenge. When faced with the choice of Sakura's feelings or his own revenge, he chose revenge. And it wasn't a mutually exclusive choice either. He could have stayed or promised he he'd some back. He did not and has behaved like he will never come back. When faced with his feelings or Sakura's, Naruto chose hers over his own.
I'd agree with him partially on the date. Her acceptance likely was related to that. However, the significance really lies in her not decking him for using date. Remember when tried that before and how she reacted. It didn't bother her at all for him to call it that. To me, the scene isn't necessarily a sign of love, especially when looked at in isolation, but a sign of just how far the relationship has come since the beginning of the manga. I disagree with him, because he tends to view this scene as almost irrelevant.
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During Sasuke's betrayal, we see him turning his back on his home, friends, family, and love; all things that people normally want. He was willing to sacrifice all of this for the sake of revenge against Itachi. The key word here is sacrifice; it's not a sacrifice if you don't actually care about what you're giving up.
If Sasuke was not even the slightest bit tempted by Sakura's offer of romantic love, it would weaken the impact of Sasuke abandoning of everything for revenge, and heavily trivialize the goodbye scene.
Except there is no evidence of him being tempted by the offer or that he made his choice with reservations; regretting that he couldn't have both or anything of that nature. There is not a single scene that follows that suggests he might have had second thoughts or is mourning the road not take even if he still would have made the same choice. The post says sacrifice, but misses the point. That he rejected her offer and chose his revenge says a lot about his priorities. To sacrifice someone else's desires for the sake of you're own isn't much of a sacrifice. As I said at length before, the choice wasn't mutually exclusive, nor is there any evidence he coveted or held her feelings in high regard, especially her romantic feelings for him. There would need to be some evidence that such feelings were important to him to show it was something he valued greatly and had to give it up for the sake of revenge. Even if that were the case, he still chose himself over her.
When faced with something he wanted and something someone else wanted....he chose what he wanted. At the promise of a Lifetime, Naruto choose what someone else wanted. That was a true sacrifice.
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Furthermore, there are similarities between Sasuke's last moment with Sakura and his last moment with Naruto. Both of them offered Sasuke love (Romantic and familial, respectively), and Sasuke rejected both offers. It would seem bizarre to me for Sasuke to be redeemed and come back and accept Naruto's offer (and everything else he left behind, such as friends/a home) yet continue to reject Sakura's.
I disagree. One, it assumes without proving that the offer of 181 still exists without change and to a lesser extent, that it is the primary motivation behind her pursuit, which it's not. If the relationships (his bond with Naruto and Team 7 bonds as a whole) were on equal standing it might be, but they aren't. What gets lost in pairing debates is that their bonds of friendship and as a Team 7 are the most important ones; not the romantic ones. I could easily see the series ending with no pairings because of that. The most important relationship in the series is Naruto and Sasuke, not Sasuke and Sakura and based on everything in part 2, the focus of their quest is gaining him back as their friend. This is a no-brainer in Naruto's case, but it seems to be the case for Sakura too. There haven't been any real indications she maintains the feelings from before. The current argument is that there is no indication she has lost them and that they are a carryover.The only scene in recent memory where she truly laments over Sasuke is a Team 7 moment. I don't see any reason why he cannot accept Naruto's but not Sakura's, assuming she's still offering it all. Her relationship with her team is more important than her romantic feelings with Sasuke.
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