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[Advaith]

More translations of chapter 1. In this, the author takes a hit at NaruSaku -___-
 

http://www.reddit.co...er_1_section_3/

That part hit NS and us.Why can't they leave us alone ?.This is their filthy novel so why don't they write their own filthy topic instead of hitting on a dead NS.What are we,a punching bag ?

[Atheck]

This is an assumption with no basis on canonical facts. We don't know if there is a mandatory resting period after a mission that hampers time for training

Please reread what I wrote:

This is a universe where economic prosperity for a country is determined by a sequence of mercenary contracts written by civilians or political entities that entail escorts, protection, assassination, and even full-fledged wars. It's expected that you would maintain and improve your relative strength on your own time time to increase your effectiveness as a shinobi. Aside from a scarce few exceptions like early Part 1 Kakashi who admitted that he had not encountered anyone notable that could challenge him for some time, the characters are always improving their strength, intelligence, speed, jutsu arsenal, chakra manipulation, or refining their fighting style.

How did you come to the conclusion that I was referencing some obligatory status of respite from my inceptive comment? I gave no such implications during my summary of the Naruto universe's economic model and system of government fostering a culture of prolonged inactivity after a single mission. It's supposed to incentivise the shinobi to train for all threats and tribulations they come across, which is why their education system happens to be a martial academy that emphasises strict discipline and aptitude in combat. There's generally no acknowledgement or suggestion of weakening shinobi or stagnation of their individual growth just because they're not constantly out in the field on an assignment. It's up to them to maintain and increase their strength between missions so that they can be more efficient at their jobs. The shinobi of old, or more specifically Hashirama and Madara's generation, may have been greatly superior in general to the modern shinobi of today, but much of that strength stems from the archaic time period that they were forced to grow up in where constant warring was the rule of thumb and the typical life expetancies of children were very short.

The segment that calls attention to Kakashi's rustiness in the early portion of the manga is a clearly defined exception who became sluggish due to lack of notable threats, as he strongly hinted at when admitting that he had not been so pressured like with Zabuza for some time.
 

or if you need to 'reserver' time for training fields. Another question is how you are even able to train specific areas like your fighting style or learning new jutsu when you are alone?We haven't seen a 'jutsu library' where you can find jutsu to learn and, in Naruto's case, fighting against Kage Bunshin doesn't refine his fighting style as it is extremely hard to impossible to find mistakes in your own fighting style.

These so called "training fields" that are required to increase your strength is another fabrication on your part. Characters have been shown numerous times to be training, refining, and developing their skillsets and stats without any assistance from others - this includes Naruto (most notably when he learned the Shadow clone technique with no one to assist) Lee (who has been portrayed as not always training with Guy, especially when he was younger before the emulation period), Sasuke (practicing of Katons and Chidori following the Sound/Sand Invasion arc), Hinata, Neji (who learned the main branch's advanced techniques without Hiashi being aware of it), Kakashi (an exclusive ability like the Kamui could only be refined through his efforts alone), or anyone else who generally trains their own selves or anyone who had the ingenuity and creativeness to develop new jutsu on their own without any established correspondence from anyone like Tobirama when he developed Edo Tensei and Flying Thunder God. Your argument about this necessitation of others for you to be able to create techniques and improve your stats doesn't exist. No one knows any better about your own being and how it develops than yourself.

Suggesting that physical growth carries a dependency based on how many people are around you is false. Some are like that, but improving your strength, speed, stamina, and chakra all depend on you. Intelligence is a factor that can be influenced by experience out in the field. How you successfully performed that physical technique, or if you were quick or strong enough is determined based on many circumstances including your own standards of what is powerful enough, not how many people of difference I can test my fighting capabilities in practice.
 

Besides, the amount of time between the different arcs is too short to truly train anyway. My estimation is that the whole of part 2 took no more than three to four months with the most down time being between the second and third 'sasuke recue' missions.

No one can determine this but the author who created the story. Oh, and the entirety of Part 1 must have taken at least a whole year since the characters had aged 1-2 years each depending on their birthdays, with the difference between the Search for Tsunade and Sasuke Retrieval arcs having the smallest time gap of just one day. For Part 2, it began with Naruto aged at 15 and ended a month or two after he turned 17, which contradicts your theory of that entire segment of the story being pigeonholed into a few months since the last time skip prior to the prologue was almost that much time in and of itself. Other incidents like the Sage training required several weeks just to complete.
 

How would balancing the intake of natural energy improve on anything? It doesn't. All Naruto had to do was exactly that (which was hard, no questions). After balancing the intake of natural energy he had to 'hold it'. When he used jutsu after that he had the same amount of control as before.

It's more than just acting as a conduit for natural energy. Senjutsu training also entails the regulation of human energies, physical and spiritual, so that there is neither too much or too little for the creation of sage chakra. The whole theory of chakra control is derived from that same basic concept, regulating the amount of chakra you exert for techniques so that not too much or too little is wasted - this was explained by Kakashi in chakra control 101 during the Land of Waves arc.
 

And some people say that distributing Kuramas chakra was impressive? It was anything but that! There isn't any need for true control as all he had to do was distribute it evenly throughout the Alliance, there is no need to consider different chakrastyles as Kurama's chakra formed a shell around the shinobi, controling it was no problem as (to me, so that point is really debatable) the shell conforms to the users will.

This is incorrect. Kurama made specific note of how far Naruto's mastery of chakra and its manipulation had come when comparing Minato and Kushina's ability to control his chakra with their son's. A diagram was even drawn that helped in pictorialising the unique chakra types of every shinobi and Naruto's adjustment of Kurama's to precisely accommodate their unique chakra styles. You can scavenge for it through #616-618 if you wish. I promised myself that I would never touch this manga again.
 

You can't take Kakashi's fight against Tendo Pain as argument as they never engaged in a taijutsu battle and Tendo could play to his strengths. This is especially important as neither of the paths specialised in taijutsu but Pain was a character completely build on the Rinnegan's abilities. So it's actually nothing special when Naruto can hold his own in a taijutsu battle with Tendo Pain.

Actually, they did - albeit it was shortly interrupted by the arrival of the Akimichi father and son. Kakashi is the same man who was likened to Guy and Lee, and was noted for having superior taijutsu than the latter. That same man was unable to overcome God Realm despite his incredible skill and speed, whose Raikiri ability was avoided by a veering of the head when his area of avoidance was narrowed by a Doton jutsu. His strength, skill, and reactionary capabilities have been proven on several different occasions when he utilised the shared vision ability to react against and block physical attacks from a senjutsu powered Jiraiya. In the fight against Naruto, at one point he was keeping distance between himself and the 6TK form.

Pain may not be the equal of taijutsu masters such as gated Guy, but he's certainly demonstrated an incredible knack for it when the situation calls for close quarters combat. The fact that an exhausted Base Naruto operating at a third of his chakra could maintain pace with that level of power is an incredible feat that trumps dodging long distance Katons from Itachi's clone and some geometric blocks of iron sand from Sasori.
 

And while we don't have an equivalent to the pain fight for Sakura you shouldn't forget her fight against Sasoris puppet army, which, by his admission, destroyed/conquered an entire country.

I take it you're citing the incident as it was depicted in the anime where Sakura was expertly and sequentially dodging and attack puppets one after another. Well, that's not how it was shown in the canon source material. In the manga, practically the entire fight against Sasori's 100 puppets was seen from the perspective of Chiyo who was destroying as many of the toys as she could which, by her own admittance, couldn't be entirely defeated with the numbers that they wielded. There's a single panel of Sakura destroying the head of one puppet before she's protected by Chiyo's White puppets. She's not seen in any more panels fighting the puppets besides dodging a cluster of swords.

This example falls flat on its face because there's not much to garner from it. Punching a fodder puppet before needing to be rescued and dodging some swords isn't sufficient evidence to counteract Naruto's performance against the strongest realm of Pain who was dodging/parrying attacks from Sage Jiraiya and a Lee-tier taijutsu user.
 

As i stated above, Naruto's taijutsu fight with Tendo Pain isn't so much a compliment to Naruto but rather to Nagato's own taijutsu. In fact, i personally would say that Naruto's showing was pathetic! He specialises in close ranged combat, engaging the enemy with clones or himself in taijutsu and finishing him off with a rasengan either through tricking or brute force, but couldn't defeat an enemy that was the most ninjutsu specialised paths of all!

See my references to Pain's taijutsu aptitude above. Base Naruto was contesting an enemy that was giving difficulty to a senjutsu user with little visibility and Kakashi. You can try to dismiss these facts as much as you want, but they're established in the manga and that invalidates your lowballing gambit.

Naruto isn't the kind of specialist that Lee is, who has dedicated his entire shinobi career on perfecting taijutsu and taking it beyond normal limitations with the gates. His fighting style is apparently similar to Kushina's but it's intermixed with Rasengan based ninjutsu. In terms of actual martial arts skill, he's displayed less than Sasuke has, but compensates for these inadequacies through his indomitable stamina, strength, and unpredictability.
 

And his fight against Sasuke (you mean the truly last one?) doesn't count as both had the activated powers of their reincarnations, so they're not 'base mode' anymore.

They lost the seal's portion of their strength after Kaguya's defeat, but nothing indicates that Naruto was utilising Rikudou's strength when he accompanied Sasuke from the base of the old Shinju tree all of the way to the border of the Land of Fire where the Valley of the End was located. The closest equivalent to what you're describing with the usage of sage-endowed powers in base occurred against one eyed Madara without the Shinju - even then, there's a clear distinction made with Naruto's eyes bearing the marks of active Sage and Kyuubi modes together. Naruto's eyes happened to retain their normal state in that momentary bout with Sasuke - were the abilities of the Sage active at that moment then he should have been capable of negating Sasuke's Katon without the need of chakra appendages.

Again, you can try to forage through the manga ilk for a reference that reinforces your argument of Rikudou's chakra being in use without any of the usual optical symptoms present when alternative chakras besides Naruto's are in use.
 

Erm, no? Look up the chapter, Naruto barely managed to achieve a short stalement.

Reread the portion of the chapter where they're engaged against each other. Naruto wasn't quaking or perspiring from the effort it was taking to carry a fight against the two of them. He wasn't feeling pressured whatsoever, and the only attack Karui successfully landed was against a clone due to Naruto being distracted by Sakura getting her ass kicked.

This is sounding like just another unestablished tidbit being used to embroider the fight and make Naruto appear less competent than he actually was.
 

And Sakura recieving Karui's attack was more of a testament to Karui and Omoi's teamwork than the ability of either Naruto or Sakura.

First off, it was Omoi who outplayed Sakura - the extent of this so called "teamwork" used to repel her consisted of using Karui, who was preoccupied with Naruto at the time, as a base to position his arms atop and use the momentum of her centre of gravity to propel himself off of the ground and firmly land his attack on Sakura. A scenario like that carries about as much teamwork implication as using a boulder out in some rocky outcrop to lift yourself up onto higher ground.

Secondly, there was no effort made on Sakura's part to counter the attack by dodging, parrying, or blocking. What does this imply? That she was so fixated on her attack, either physically or mentally, that she was incapable of using those amazing counteractive reflexes acquired from Tsunade to avoid some generic Kumo Chunin's attack.
 

And if you analyse the positions of Naruto, his clone holding Karui's sword, Karui and Omoi you'll see that Naruto was severly disadvantaged against them. Karui and Omoi had the upper hand from beginning to end.

The disadvantageous positioning of Naruto only extended insofar that his battle with Karui and Omoi was disrupted by the intervention of Sakura before he could dispose of the sword by levering it away. Moreover, Omoi wasn't in much of a position to assist either due to his preoccupation in a weaponry stalemate against the original Naruto. There was no upperhand gained by the Kumo nin since they were unable to immobilise or force Naruto back.
 

This can actually be applied to Naruto, too. He just uses clones to mitigate problems. Oh and again you forget Sakura's superior reflexes (i very much doubt that Naruto could evade a hail of senbon like during the first stage of the Sasori fight) so counterpunching isn't that much of a problem.

The difference between Naruto and Sakura's taijutsu is that the former has proven to be competent enough whereby he can adapt to the fighting strategies of his opponent. He can follow through with sequential movement patterns like dodges, punches, jostles, parries, kicks, and various other hand-to-hand postures depending on what the immediate circumstances of the fight requires, regardless of whether he's delivering an attack or jumping to safety from enemy fire. Naruto's close quarters method isn't confined to the same undeviating linearity that makes Sakura an easy target mid-attack where she's incapable of shifting her footing and general position.

Naruto doesn't suffer from short-term reflexive incompetence that inhibits Sakura from acting on her feet. These feats of reflexive dexterity and legwork that you're rehashing as evidence are mostly seen in the fight Sasori. What you seem to be having a difficult time understanding is that Sakura needed a thorough and consistent understanding of his opponent's stylistic movements before she could counter it. As I said before, the moment Sasori shifted attack methods to something that Sakura was unfamiliar with, she needed Chiyo to protect her. Put simply, Sakura is not a quick thinker during combat - put into the line of fire with no prior knowledge of the enemy's attack method she becomes one of the most helpless fighters in the manga. It shouldn't be difficult to dodge a senbon barrage because there's no complexity behind it. Sakura just didn't have the immediate physical reflexes to dodge it.
 

No, the moment Sasori used non-area-affect iron sand attacks Sakura was able to stand her ground with minimal help which became 'no help' in matters of three or four manga panels.

Once again, Sakura's ability to react to the Iron Sand geometric attacks was only made possible while carefully analysing Sasori's joint movements as she being controlled by Chiyo. Immediate reflexive competency wasn't Sakura's strength, as she noted prior to the battle's commencement. She wouldn't have this luxury against Base Naruto because Chiyo isn't there to provide the necessary time to somehow adjust herself to Naruto's spontaneous fighting style.
 

Recall the fight: First, senbon hails. Sakura only needed help with the stinger.

This is patently false - don't misconstrue facts. Sasori was genuinely astonished by Sakura's ability to dodge the senbon before she came within range to challenge him, as though it were a physical feat that should be impossible for someone of her limited calibre. The chakra strings were already attached to Sakura prior for her to avoid the senbon successfully.
 

Second, iron sand bullets and 'iron shard rain'. Too fast to react or dodge if you're not familiar with iron sand.

Something which, again, required Chiyo's assistance all throughout for Sakura to stay alive against. She wasn't beginning to grasp how to avoid these projectiles until well after the geometric sand shapes were being unleashed.

Edited by Atheck, 05 April 2015 - 03:10 AM.

[Nar123]

That part hit NS and us.Why can't they leave us alone ?.This is their filthy novel so why don't they write their own filthy topic instead of hitting on a dead NS.What are we,a punching bag ?

its pathetic

the only way to make NH look perfect unreal fairy tale couple (blergh!) is to attack any other relationships Naruto might have had, the main one being NS since it was so proeminent

Edited by Nar123, 05 April 2015 - 03:04 AM.

[Atheck]

Third, geometrical iron sand structures. Sakura accurately read the attacks and countered them.

Yes, contrary to what you seemed to be implying earlier, this is the first example of Sakura beginning to grasp Sasori's attack patterns and react accordingly to them. Chiyo made a specific note regarding this because it was a praiseworthy feat for Sakura.
 

Fourth, iron sand web. Undodgeable but Sakura mangaged to sustain only very few injuries.

Chiyo had already resumed control of Sakura's body and mobility at this time. This proclaimed "feat" of mitigating the external damage of the Iron Sand by side-stepping most of the projectiles' mass is ambiguous at best given the intervention of her partner.
 

Fifth and Sixth, fire and water attacks.

There is no concrete bridge connecting this scene with the prior events. The manga cuts away to other characters right when Sasori declares that he will be fighting directly now, and then when the scene returns, both Chiyo and Sakura are concealed behind boulders to protect themselves from Sasori's element attack. It's inadmissable because we're not aware of the circumstances that lead to Sakura being safe from the blast. However, I am inclined to believe that she received helped from Chiyo since she couldn't avoid a later attack from Sasori's abdomen cable on her own.
 

Seventh, puppet army. Sakura displays an extremely good showing against a jutsu that conquered a whole nation, especially when you consider that she was on her last legs.

I addressed this segment of the fight already. Let me revisit it for you.

"I take it you're citing the incident as it was depicted in the anime where Sakura was expertly and sequentially dodging and attack puppets one after another. Well, that's not how it was shown in the canon source material. In the manga, practically the entire fight against Sasori's 100 puppets was seen from the perspective of Chiyo who was destroying as many of the toys as she could which, by her own admittance, couldn't be entirely defeated with the numbers that they wielded. There's a single panel of Sakura destroying the head of one puppet before she's protected by Chiyo's White puppets. She's not seen in any more panels fighting the puppets besides dodging a cluster of swords.

This example falls flat on its face because there's not much to garner from it. Punching a fodder puppet before needing to be rescued and dodging some swords isn't sufficient evidence to counteract Naruto's performance against the strongest realm of Pain who was dodging/parrying attacks from Sage Jiraiya and a Lee-tier taijutsu user."
 

The information about the Shinra Tensei was from Kakashi and transfered through Katsuyu,

Was it? Please give the proper citation with a chapter, page number, and picture image.
 

Kiba's heightened sense of smell was (or should be) a no-brainer as he was from a notable clan in Konoha and Naruto was a class mate. The only one i give you is the Kaguya one.

Naruto was so ill-informed about specific clan traits that he originally complained to the referee about Kiba using Akamaru in the fight. His opponent needed to explain openly to him that his smelling capacity was greatly heightened compared to that of a regular human's.

So summa summarum i would say that Naruto had definetly the edge in 'ingenuity' but not by much, especially considering that 'ingenuity' is base Naruto's only true strength.

That, coupled with vastly superior speed, strength, reflexive ability, dexterity, legwork, jutsu arsenal, summoning type advantage, combat experience, and a general style of combat that's nightmarish for someone of Sakura's variety who flourishes in open surface close quarters battle with no elements of trickery or surprise attack involved. A simple clone feint like the one used against Pain, if he doesn't outright blitz her due to the speed discrepancy, and one Rasengan to the face will result in her cranium bursting apart with fragments of bone, tissue, and brain matter scattered across the ground. I would enjoy seeing Byakugou mend her back together after that.
 

And considering that Sakura wasn't helpless for more than maybe ONE phase out of eight, i would say that her showing wasn't too much worse than Naruto's which is actually a compliment as Naruto is the main character.

I'm not going to offer a separate rebuttal for this. The previous explanations provided already explain why this viewpoint of the battle and Sakura's standalone performance are wrong.

First point: "Oh and again you forget Sakura's superior reflexes (i very much doubt that Naruto could evade a hail of senbon like during the first stage of the Sasori fight) so counterpunching isn't that much of a problem."

"Naruto doesn't suffer from short-term reflexive incompetence that inhibits Sakura from acting on her feet. These feats of reflexive dexterity and legwork that you're rehashing as evidence are mostly seen in the fight Sasori. What you seem to be having a difficult time understanding is that Sakura needed a thorough and consistent understanding of his opponent's stylistic movements before she could counter it. As I said before, the moment Sasori shifted attack methods to something that Sakura was unfamiliar with, she needed Chiyo to protect her. Put simply, Sakura is not a quick thinker during combat - put into the line of fire with no prior knowledge of the enemy's attack method she becomes one of the most helpless fighters in the manga. It shouldn't be difficult to dodge a senbon barrage because there's no complexity behind it. Sakura just didn't have the immediate physical reflexes to dodge it."

Second point: "No, the moment Sasori used non-area-affect iron sand attacks Sakura was able to stand her ground with minimal help which became 'no help' in matters of three or four manga panels."

"Once again, Sakura's ability to react to the Iron Sand geometric attacks was only made possible while carefully analysing Sasori's joint movements as she being controlled by Chiyo. Immediate reflexive competency wasn't Sakura's strength, as she noted prior to the battle's commencement. She wouldn't have this luxury against Base Naruto because Chiyo isn't there to provide the necessary time to somehow adjust herself to Naruto's spontaneous fighting style."

Third point: "Recall the fight: First, senbon hails. Sakura only needed help with the stinger."

"Sasori was genuinely astonished by Sakura's ability to dodge the senbon before she came within range to challenge him, as though it were a physical feat that should be impossible for someone of her limited calibre. The chakra strings were already attached to Sakura prior for her to avoid the senbon successfully."

Fourth point: Second, iron sand bullets and 'iron shard rain'. Too fast to react or dodge if you're not familiar with iron sand.

"Something which, again, required Chiyo's assistance all throughout for Sakura to stay alive against. She wasn't beginning to grasp how to avoid these projectiles until well after the geometric sand shapes were being unleashed."

Fifth point: "Third, geometrical iron sand structures. Sakura accurately read the attacks and countered them."

"Yes, contrary to what you seemed to be implying earlier, this is the first example of Sakura beginning to grasp Sasori's attack patterns and react accordingly to them. Chiyo made a specific note regarding this because it was a praiseworthy feat for Sakura."

Sixth point: "Fourth, iron sand web. Undodgeable but Sakura mangaged to sustain only very few injuries."

"Chiyo had already resumed control of Sakura's body and mobility at this time. This proclaimed "feat" of mitigating the external damage of the Iron Sand by side-stepping most of the projectiles' mass is ambiguous at best given the intervention of her partner."

Seventh point: "Fifth and Sixth, fire and water attacks."

"There is no concrete bridge connecting this scene with the prior events. The manga cuts away to other characters right when Sasori declares that he will be fighting directly now, and then when the scene returns, both Chiyo and Sakura are concealed behind boulders to protect themselves from Sasori's element attack. It's inadmissable because we're not aware of the circumstances that lead to Sakura being safe from the blast. However, I am inclined to believe that she received helped from Chiyo since she couldn't avoid a later attack from Sasori's abdomen cable on her own."

Eighth point: "Seventh, puppet army. Sakura displays an extremely good showing against a jutsu that conquered a whole nation, especially when you consider that she was on her last legs."

"I take it you're citing the incident as it was depicted in the anime where Sakura was expertly and sequentially dodging and attack puppets one after another. Well, that's not how it was shown in the canon source material. In the manga, practically the entire fight against Sasori's 100 puppets was seen from the perspective of Chiyo who was destroying as many of the toys as she could which, by her own admittance, couldn't be entirely defeated with the numbers that they wielded. There's a single panel of Sakura destroying the head of one puppet before she's protected by Chiyo's White puppets. She's not seen in any more panels fighting the puppets besides dodging a cluster of swords.

This example falls flat on its face because there's not much to garner from it. Punching a fodder puppet before needing to be rescued and dodging some swords isn't sufficient evidence to counteract Naruto's performance against the strongest realm of Pain who was dodging/parrying attacks from Sage Jiraiya and a Lee-tier taijutsu user."
 

Regarding Madara and her rushing him. That was the correct choice of her, as the distance between them was so small that Madara had no time to do much else than stab her and use his 'shadows'.

You speak as though Sakura's mobility was impressive enough to intimidate him into using a simple and quick counterattack. Which is just silly... Madara was neck-and-neck with 8th gate Guy prior to his "Night Guy" technique. How could Sakura of all people register as anything more than a tiny insignificant ant to a much stronger variation of that same person? Her tactics were moronic and nearly cost her life. And what did it accomplish? Nothing, because Sasuke was unable to successfully follow through with the "distraction" and Naruto was fixated on saving her. Anything else, even a Katon similar to the one used against Tsunade way back, may have incinerated her down to nothing. She was grimacing in pain from a glance of acid that had burnt her - so she's obviously not very durable.
 

And, again, this fight can't be taken as argument for or against base power levels as noone was on his 'base level', the only ones to have even a chance at doing anything were our 'poster boys' thanks to their god given powers and Madara would have won anyways if Kaguya wouldn't have been revived.

Are we still addressing the same battle? My argument is citing the beginning stages of the second Naruto and Sasuke battle - which was contested for in an above responce.

"They lost the seal's portion of their strength after Kaguya's defeat, but nothing indicates that Naruto was utilising Rikudou's strength when he accompanied Sasuke from the base of the old Shinju tree all of the way to the border of the Land of Fire where the Valley of the End was located. The closest equivalent to what you're describing with the usage of sage-endowed powers in base occurred against one eyed Madara without the Shinju - even then, there's a clear distinction made with Naruto's eyes bearing the marks of active Sage and Kyuubi modes together. Naruto's eyes happened to retain their normal state in that momentary bout with Sasuke - were the abilities of the Sage active at that moment then he should have been capable of negating Sasuke's Katon without the need of chakra appendages."
 

During the first fight against the zombie clone of Itachi during the 'rescue Gaara' arc. Everyone on his team was suddenly 'defeated' but Naruto didn't even think about it and istead rushed Itachi. To detect that this was a genjutsu it needed something obvious as Itachi dispersing in a cloud of crows and reemerging.

Crow clones have been a staple of Itachi's fighting style for a long time. There's no reason to assume that Sakura would have immediately discerned that it was all an illusion when she was unable to register another subtle rotational genjutsu like Team Oboro's in Part 1. Her emotions would likely have overtaken her rationale anyway since Sakura is easily prone to falling apart when personal friends are involved.
 

In comparison, Sakura immediately detected that they were on the second floor rather then the third one during the chuunin exams through something as simple as knowing how much stairs they went up.

Duly noted, along with Sasuke's easy recognition of the genjutsu as well and her inability to recognise Oboro's technique later in the Forest of Death. Moreover, Naruto's resistance to illusions is mostly derived from his in-sync jinchuuriki status. But once again, genjutsu isn't an important discipline of combat for either person.
 

Neither Tsunade nor Sakura can rely on the Byakugou Fuin as it has to be periodically recharged.

Actually, Tsunade is capable of quickly replenishing hers just by eating large sums of food. Sakura is the only one who suffers from this weakness due to her typically small chakra reserves.
 

Oh and did you actually see the (admittedly very short) scene of Sakura destroying Sasori's puppets?

There wasn't much information that could be gleaned from it. It's just a close-up of Sakura's fist and a pulverised puppet's head before shifting attentions to another puppet attacking her and Chiyo defending against it in her place.
 

You know the scene practically copied in 'The Last'. You can't call this 'not gracefull' without calling everyone else's fighting style ungraceful.

Sakura's taijutsu stunt can be summed down to "punch doll, doll is broken". Her only other taijutsu feats occurred in Part 1 where she spent 15 minutes locking fists with Chunin Exams Ino (which is laughable considering that Ino's profession isn't direct-line combat) and punching each other in the face continually before Shintenshin was used and it was back to one more punching of the face before they were both knocked out. It's incomparable to what her teammates have demonstrated time and again from Base Sasuke's spar with Kakashi in the bell test to his close quarters exchange with Haku, Naruto's taijutsu used against Kiba including a crafty improvisation of Lee's Primary Lotus, the combination used against Gaara, and all of the way up to Naruto and Sasuke clashing fists that generated a sonic wave.

This just makes Sakura even more laughable because the pamphlet claims that Ino somehow "kept up" with Sakura in spite of the vast differences in training quality. I suppose this means that the InoShikaCho trio are all individually on par with Tsunade the Sannin.

Edited by Atheck, 05 April 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Nar123]

Atheck the information of the Shinra Tensei came from Kakashi he even bad to sacrifice himself so chouji could deliver it

[Atheck]

All scenes of Sakura and Tsunade tanking damage were actually instances where evading was actually counterproductive (as it consumes more stamina/chakra) or the wrong choice as tanking would allow them go close to the enemy.

How does exerting a small ounce of stamina from jumping out of the way of an attack require less effort than being impaled by an enemy, escaping, and then exerting a significant amount of chakra to close the gash in your body? That is one of the most ridiculous assertions offered so far. Many of these instances of regeneration were chiefly intended to be a means of conveying the potency of their technique or to stress how it doesn't require handseals. There wasn't some overt necessity for it when you could simply dodge the enemy's attack.

And please show me what you mean with 'having problems reacting to wooden spikes that Hinata was repelling'. I can't recall any scene in the manga where this happens!

As I already stated before, I'm not going to sift through pages of that manga. Look at chapter #614 for the citation. You will see Sakura needing to be pulled to safety by Kakashi as she cries out in surprise while Hinata is able to repel a stray Mokuton projectile from hitting Naruto.
 

Yes, but she did because that was her job. And additionally she didn't visibly react to such a blunder which Naruto would have (because he seriously lacks emotional control). 

A job that no one else besides other medical personnel would have had the appropriate circumstances to comprehend the truth from since they were responsible for tending to the wounded. Naruto didn't require a covert ploy because his chakra mode allows him to read the emotions and intentions of anyone around him. He would have quickly disposed of the fake before it could finish its sentence.

Naruto may not be so patient, but his emotions don't act as a hindrance in serious fights like in the manner which they impact Sakura who is generally helpless to do anything and requires someone else to save her.

[Atheck]

Again, that's not base-level as both had their 'gifts'. I don't even know if they kept them after they lost their arms but considering Sasuke still has has the Rinnegan i would argue that the moment they recieved their gifts from the Rikudou Sennin they ceased to even have base-levels.

You may call me narrow-minded but i refuse to acknowledge their new status as their basic one. Neither of the two worked to attain that power, it was given to them because they were reincarnations of some half-aliens and now it courses through them 24/7.

For the third time, I will present what was already written above...

"They lost the seal's portion of their strength after Kaguya's defeat, but nothing indicates that Naruto was utilising Rikudou's strength when he accompanied Sasuke from the base of the old Shinju tree all of the way to the border of the Land of Fire where the Valley of the End was located. The closest equivalent to what you're describing with the usage of sage-endowed powers in base occurred against one eyed Madara without the Shinju - even then, there's a clear distinction made with Naruto's eyes bearing the marks of active Sage and Kyuubi modes together. Naruto's eyes happened to retain their normal state in that momentary bout with Sasuke - were the abilities of the Sage active at that moment then he should have been capable of negating Sasuke's Katon without the need of chakra appendages."

Sasuke's Sharinnegan was active since he was first revived, as it appears to be the case for many people with artificial doujutsu. It's not symptomatic of Naruto's Rikudou abilities being constantly active, however. The evidence indicates to Naruto being capable of shifting in and out of his sage form. You need to provide some reference or panel indicating that Rikudou mode was still active after Kaguya was sealed through the following conversations and going into the battle with Sasuke - something besides your "good word" needs to be offered as reinforcement.
 

Oh, and what could Sakura have done to prevent her from falling into the lava? She was practically teleported directly above the lava with no chance to do anything! And that includes Kakshi!

Manoeuvre herself through the air and implant some kunai into the cavern wall to stop her plunge? Or if that was somehow impossible, she could always summon a portion of Katsuyu to use as a stepping stone. What she needs to do is use some of those instinctual reflexes that proponents such as yourself claim that she possesses. Kakashi actually managed to break his fall momentarily before the scroll he was using as a makeshift rope was burned in the intense heat. He should have relied on some of those chains that were used against God Realm to maintain a better grip, but I chalk this up to intentional PIS on Kishi's part since he needs to glorify Naruto further by saving his friends.
 

And again, i have seen no instance that she had problems dodging wooden spikes.

Look over #614 for the reference point. She was unable to protect herself against the Mokuton spikes and nothing indicates that she could have - the opposite is attested to actually she's unable to react to the lava dimension.

[Atheck]

Naruto's genjutsu resistance stems from Kurama, meaning it's non-basic Naruto.

And Sakura's genjutsu feats in Part 2 happened to be nonexistent past dispelling the one placed on Naruto by Itachi's clone with Chiyo. Just as an important tidbit, dispelling through the application of foreign chakras is a much less impressive feat than dispelling one that you yourself are trapped within without assistance.
 

And only because we didn't see them using genjutsu doesn't negate the fact that Sakura has higher stats and is thus objectively better than Naruto at it.

Feats have from the manga have been consistently flying in the face of what the Databook states is viable. For example, the stats claim that Orochimaru is a perfect 5 in genjtusu, yet he's easily defeated by both Itachi and Sasuke using generic illusions.
 

And since Naruto isn't that much faster than Sakura she won't be blitzed as i've argumented above.

The last Databook to use stats was the 3rd, which concluded at the end of the Itachi Pursuit arc. Many of the speed feats that Base Naruto later accomplishes which I've cited multiple times above now and attested to were not factored into that book because it's outdated material from 2008.The only crutch for your argument of equatable mobility is some outdated encyclopedic book with no in-manga proof to corroborate it. Her mediocre reflexes during a spontaneous situation is a damning counter-evidence piece.

[Atheck]

Simply because she has more missions than Naruto. She has 8 C-rank, 4 B-rank and 1 A-rank missions more than Naruto.

Mission amounts don't indicate anything regarding your quality of fighting, just your rank. We don't know the circumstances behind those missions or whether she actually engaged in combat with anyone greater than a ragtag group of criminals and highwaymen. That lone A-rank mission was the one Kakashi gave to her when she was instructed to revive Naruto and follow after Sasuke during the Sound/Sand Invasion arc. Iruka has participated in a greater number of missions than all of the Rookies, yet he hardly qualifies as anything more than fodder.
 

And Naruto had only two notable fights which i would say count towards battle experience: Pain and Kakuzu, one of which was  primarily fought with his power-ups (sage-mode and Kurama). And every fight after that was nothing more than DBZ-esque slugfests that, again, were fought with power-ups. If you actually look at all the notable fights (which discounts fights like those with Deidara and Itachi), you'll see that Naruto had only one notable fight without powerups. And that was against Kakuzu.

Battle experience is battle experience, regardless of how you resolved the situation. It grants you a better understanding of the general tactics of shinobi, enables you to test your grit against enemies, formulate effective strategies, and strengthen your body. The knowledge and technical refinement that you've acquired doesn't just magically disappear just for not being in a chakra state. By this logic, Kakashi after the war shouldn't even be glancing the Hokageship since his level degenerated to his 13 year old state prior to being dependent on the Sharingan.
 

Ah, and you can cross out 'training with a Sannin' since Sakura had that too...

Training with arguably the weakest Sannin who happens to profess in medical treatment with combat being a secondary vocation is not quite the same as training with Jiraiya. The results only granted Sakura the long-term benefit of healing, some mild form of regeneration, and chakra enhanced training. Quick-minded reflexive instincts and ability were never referenced again after the Kazekage Rescue arc.

To the moderators: I sincerely apologise for dividing my responce into so many different posts. For whatever reason, my third responce originally consisted of the last 12 quotes, but it won't post for whatever reason - three quotes will somehow work though. Please, if you could, would you condense these last consecutive four posts of mine into one?

Edited by Atheck, 05 April 2015 - 03:44 AM.

[BlackBird19]

These novels and some of the responses I've seen are the true reason why this story tanked so badly. People care so much more for what they want their favorite characters to be rather than caring for the story. If the story had stayed a priority then the manga would've ended completely differently. That is what I find most upsetting about everything that has occurred. Starting with the ending of the manga, to the movie and now these novels. All of these are just little plots that are being written so that fans can see or read about their favorite characters in some form or fashion and get us arguing over which character is better than other; or which character is more disgusting than the other. None that crap matters now that there is no longer any kind of a story to care about. All of this is just random mess to keep money flowing to the Naruto brand. Because in the end that's all that matters to the folks that keep putting this stuff out.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well if that happen, it will truly interesting right? I mean what's the point to make sm not exclusive to frog?

Well, orochimaru is still interesting villain.

Doesn't mean you can live. Besides, as much as I like him, if return, it's obvious that he's going to get nerfed hard.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 05 April 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[rocci]

Doesn't mean you can live. Besides, as much as I like him, if return, it's obvious that he's going to get nerfed hard.

He could still useful as secret final villain.
I don't think he's nerfed, I think naruto and sasuke just stronger than him.
The only way for orochimaru to compete again naruto and sasuke is gain hashirama body and madara eye or just take over madara body.

[ichigo500]

More translations of chapter 1. In this, the author takes a hit at NaruSaku -___-
 
http://www.reddit.co...er_1_section_3/

DISGUSTING.
Seriously, Naruto and Sakura were obviously made for each other. and that "hinata has big ones" sounds like what NH fans usually say when they want to explain why hinata is better...
And why always talking about naruto and hinata in the books...
I'm just....ugh!!!

[TouKen4Life3g]

He could still useful as secret final villain.
I don't think he's nerfed, I think naruto and sasuke just stronger than him.
The only way for orochimaru to compete again naruto and sasuke is gain hashirama body and madara eye or just take over madara body.

Let's see Kishi think of this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He won't....

[narusakurama]

So Sasuke is not a strong-willed person that would  clash with Sakura ?

Guess that  does not matter , since she has zero personality when around Sasuke .

[Toby]

Summary-ish.

“I thought about that. If his partner was also an unyielding and strong-willed type, Naruto would probably even be in conflict with them. But since it’s Hinata, I guess we shouldn’t even be worried like that," Tsunade says, “If she was a woman like you, it might have been difficult, right?”

-facepalm- that's like saying Hinata is best suited for Naruto because she's yielding and weak-willed! Forget Sakura,..this puts even Hinata in bad light!!!!

And it's in Naruto's nature to try to build up her confidence, what will happen then? If she's not weak-willed anymore, they'll be "in conflict" often...Or will Naruto fail at it and she stays weak?


Instantly after Tsunade says this, Sakura thinks about Sasuke and asks "As for men, how can I get them to turn around?”


“If…..you want to make a man face you….” Tsunade puffs out her chest, "use your bust."

"Is that so? It’s as I thought, isn’t it? Hinata also has huge ones, doesn’t she?” Then Sakura sulks and Tsunade claims it was a joke and that it depends on the man. No help there.

Tsunade is my favorite, but this puts her in bad light too. She and Hinata both look worse than Sakura!

Is this author really a Sakura-basher? Or more of a...anti-Hinata, anti-Tsunade writer?

[ichigo500]

Summary-ish.

I thought about that. If his partner was also an unyielding and strong-willed type, Naruto would probably even be in conflict with them. But since its Hinata, I guess we shouldnt even be worried like that," Tsunade says, If she was a woman like you, it might have been difficult, right?

-facepalm- that's like saying Hinata is best suited for Naruto because she's yielding and weak-willed! Forget Sakura,..this puts even Hinata in bad light!!!!

And it's in Naruto's nature to try to build up her confidence, what will happen then? If she's not weak-willed anymore, they'll be "in conflict" often...Or will Naruto fail at it and she stays weak?


Instantly after Tsunade says this, Sakura thinks about Sasuke and asks "As for men, how can I get them to turn around?


If..you want to make a man face you. Tsunade puffs out her chest, "use your bust."

"Is that so? Its as I thought, isnt it? Hinata also has huge ones, doesnt she? Then Sakura sulks and Tsunade claims it was a joke and that it depends on the man. No help there.

Tsunade is my favorite, but this puts her in bad light too. She and Hinata both look worse than Sakura!

Is this author really a Sakura-basher? Or more of a...anti-Hinata, anti-Tsunade writer?

Maybe just a sexist writer or...just someone whp doesn't even know the story and characters..like the director of the lasr

[ramenanmitsu]

Just go with it. We need to find a way for Sakura to look at least passable, ok.

I never imagined you to be the type to say this. Well I guess ending changes people.

Summary-ish.
I thought about that. If his partner was also an unyielding and strong-willed type, Naruto would probably even be in conflict with them. But since its Hinata, I guess we shouldnt even be worried like that," Tsunade says, If she was a woman like you, it might have been difficult, right?
-facepalm- that's like saying Hinata is best suited for Naruto because she's yielding and weak-willed! Forget Sakura,..this puts even Hinata in bad light!!!!
And it's in Naruto's nature to try to build up her confidence, what will happen then? If she's not weak-willed anymore, they'll be "in conflict" often...Or will Naruto fail at it and she stays weak?
Instantly after Tsunade says this, Sakura thinks about Sasuke and asks "As for men, how can I get them to turn around?
If..you want to make a man face you. Tsunade puffs out her chest, "use your bust."
"Is that so? Its as I thought, isnt it? Hinata also has huge ones, doesnt she? Then Sakura sulks and Tsunade claims it was a joke and that it depends on the man. No help there.
Tsunade is my favorite, but this puts her in bad light too. She and Hinata both look worse than Sakura!
Is this author really a Sakura-basher? Or more of a...anti-Hinata, anti-Tsunade writer?

I think they are trying too hard to indirectly show how NS wouldn't work. I guess the rumor that Naruto chose Hinata because of the boobs comes from here. Every Hiden has become a NH propaganda.

I find it funny that the Sakura Hiden is advertising all couples BUT SS. That's delicious.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 05 April 2015 - 02:55 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well the thing is it all tally up in the end and when you look back, she was neglected pretty bad. It's like if her feedback was great back in first arc of part 2, maybe Kishi would have push her harder to the badass route, rather than getting a cheerleader role. I didn't mind for the next following arc, but after that, everything seems misguided. Two arcs in a row of no Naruto being the protagonist, up to the point SP even make fun of it. Looking at other series, who does that?

Anyway, when it all ends, you tally up the character progression, you'll know how the fair up in the end. In a selfish way, that's why I wanted one more arc with Sasuke and his people because at least Sakura can show off her power one more time, but instead we got her weeping. That's our last combat image. Pathetic.

[sushi.]

Summary-ish.

“I thought about that. If his partner was also an unyielding and strong-willed type, Naruto would probably even be in conflict with them. But since it’s Hinata, I guess we shouldn’t even be worried like that," Tsunade says, “If she was a woman like you, it might have been difficult, right?”

-facepalm- that's like saying Hinata is best suited for Naruto because she's yielding and weak-willed! Forget Sakura,..this puts even Hinata in bad light!!!!

And it's in Naruto's nature to try to build up her confidence, what will happen then? If she's not weak-willed anymore, they'll be "in conflict" often...Or will Naruto fail at it and she stays weak?


Instantly after Tsunade says this, Sakura thinks about Sasuke and asks "As for men, how can I get them to turn around?”


“If…..you want to make a man face you….” Tsunade puffs out her chest, "use your bust."

"Is that so? It’s as I thought, isn’t it? Hinata also has huge ones, doesn’t she?” Then Sakura sulks and Tsunade claims it was a joke and that it depends on the man. No help there.

Tsunade is my favorite, but this puts her in bad light too. She and Hinata both look worse than Sakura!

Is this author really a Sakura-basher? Or more of a...anti-Hinata, anti-Tsunade writer?

Christ.. like Kushina wasn't unyielding and strong-willed? She even said on her deathbed that Minato won an argument only once.

 

Naruto only married Hinata because he made a deal with her dad that he'd stop the injustice in the Hyuuga clan if he did it. Hinata is now first lady of Konoha, and at least Naruto made one accomplishment. x)