1649 replies to this topic

[Hanabi]

I edited that part. But whether you include "same" or not it doesn't change. The "same" is not directed towards the content of what kind of like/love it is. It's directed towards the word itself. (In the word love there is different content-family love, romantic love, friendship love, etc.) So I didn't put in the word "same" because doing so will ruin the context. To be more detailed, Kakashi's line can be translated to "even if you call it the same (word)love/like, the type of love/like is different." 

 

Does any Japanese speaker have a different opinion? I can edit. 

 

 

I honestly think it was just imported from mangapanda. The translations are pretty much the same. I don't think they are the raw version.

yeah that's what i thought about the 'same' used in that sentence, you explained it nicely here.

[咲耶姫]

So the real translations are out?

 

I predict 20 additional pages of discussion before the day is over.

 

As for me, I'll just go with what our jap translators have to say, which as far as I see is to take it just the same as we did when it came out in MangaPanda.

You better do it, I already noticed some biaseness in the translations SS fans were doing during this week with the 同じ好き. The first thing ramenanmitsu said to me about it was that it's same love but not in a same kind of love meaning, and bet what word they added on their translation..... Same KIND OF love, while ramenanmitsu said it didn't mean that. SO yeah, stay here, it's better than letting the outside make you believe false translations. I say "you" but I'm directing this advise to other persons. 

[AzureWaters]

I edited that part. But whether you include "same" or not it doesn't change. The "same" is not directed towards the content of what kind of like/love it is. It's directed towards the word itself. (In the word love there is different content-family love, romantic love, friendship love, etc.) So I didn't put in the word "same" because doing so will confuse the context. To be more precise, "even if you call it love/like, the type of love/like is different." 

 

Does any Japanese speaker have a different opinion? I can edit. 

 

Not fluent, as I said before. But from what I can tell concerning kanji:
 

"The same", or 想い(omoi) is used in contexts where you're trying to express strong feelings. 思い(omoi) is more intellectual, less emotional. The former (that is seen in the raw) is used to express romantic emotion. So logically, this is what Kakashi would be referring to.

 

[ramenanmitsu]

 

Not fluent, as I said before. But from what I can tell concerning kanji:
 

"The same", or 想い(omoi) is used in contexts where you're trying to express strong feelings. 思い(omoi) is more intellectual, less emotional. The former (that is seen in the raw) is used to express romantic emotion. So logically, this is what Kakashi would be referring to.

 

You are right in that 想い is used in contexts where you are trying to express emotional feelings. However, it is NOT limited to romantic emotion. You can use it when you express your feelings for your parents, children or even hometown. 

 

Some examples 想い is used that are not romantic:

小学校が懐かしく想う。I think about my elementary school.
ふるさとの母を想う。I feel for my mother at our hometown.
我が子の将来を想う。I feel for my child's future.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 12 May 2014 - 10:42 AM.

[AzureWaters]

You are right in that 想い is used in contexts where you are trying to express emotional feelings. However, it is NOT limited to romantic emotion. You can use it when you express your feelings for your parents, children or even hometown. 

 

Sasuke is not Sakura's parent, child, or hometown. It's true that it isn't limited, but in this context the romantic connotation would be the most fitting given the choice of words used.

Edited by AzureWaters, 12 May 2014 - 10:42 AM.

[六道仙人]

my version isn't much different from ramenanmitsu or mangapanda. The point is that it's impossible to twist the real text, that's all as it's written.

 

Kakashi: And Sakura... Your feelings for Sasuke at that time are different/changed, isn't?
Kakashi: Even though the love is the same, your feelings are different.
Kakashi: You still think a fellow/enemy who tried to end your life... Whatever happens, you cannot cut down the Sasuke that you loved, you think that saving Sasuke from the darkness is your duty (to yourself).
Kakashi: That's kind of you!

[ramenanmitsu]

 

Sasuke is not Sakura's parent, child, or hometown. It's true that it isn't limited, but in this context the romantic connotation would be the most fitting given the choice of words used.

You can use it for your friends too.

故郷にいる友達を想う。

 

As long as you have strong emotions for that person, you can use it.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 12 May 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[Kster95]

my version isn't much different from ramenanmitsu or mangapanda. The point is that it's impossible to twist the real text, that's all as it's written.

 

Kakashi: And Sakura... Your feelings for Sasuke at that time are different/changed, isn't?
Kakashi: Even though the love is the same, your feelings are different.
Kakashi: You still think a fellow/enemy who tried to end your life... Whatever happens, you cannot cut down the Sasuke that you loved, you think that saving Sasuke from the darkness is your duty (to yourself).
Kakashi: That's kind of you!

 

Which is basically saying you still have the same love for him, meaning you wont cast him aside but you no longer want a romantic relationship from him. Love is still there but not that kinda of love. 

[咲耶姫]

You are right in that 想い is used in contexts where you are trying to express emotional feelings. However, it is NOT limited to romantic emotion. You can use it when you express your feelings for your parents, children or even hometown. 

That and also, it's more logical in the sense of the sentence to say that it means "consider" you still consider the one who tried to kill you, meaning she still have some esteem even towards someone who tried to kill her.

But I'm sure whatever we say, the doubters will still doubt and say whatever they want even if they are not very fluent in japanese. No offense really, it's just that since I'm in this site I noticed that some people like to make the others doubt over things that doesn't need to be doubted.

With what ramenanmitsu said about the 同じ好き there is no more doubt about her love. It's not the same kind of love anymore. 

 

@六道仙人and @ ramenanmitsu: Ramenanmitsu explained us about the onaji suki, if I understood it well, it means that what she feels for him can also be called love, but the feelings behind that love are different? Am I right?

Edited by 咲耶姫, 12 May 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

＠咲耶姫

Yeah you are right. What she feels for him is love, but the feeling (or should I say type?) of love is different. 

 

For example, the love you have for your friends, for your lover, or for your parents are all feelings of love. But the feeling (type) of love is different. 

 

I don't know if this is clear enough

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 12 May 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[narusaku256]

Kudos to Ramenanmitsu and 咲耶姫! XD

Edited by narusaku256, 12 May 2014 - 10:54 AM.

[咲耶姫]

＠咲耶姫

Yeah you are right. What she feels for him is love, but the feeling (or should I say type?) of love is different. 

 

For example, the love you have for your friends, for your lover, or for your parents are all feelings of love. But the feeling (type) of love is different. 

 

I don't know if this is clear enough

In fact 同じ in this case would better be translated as "Still" rather than "same". Like "it's still love" and not "it's same love" and that's why you omitted on your first translation. 

 

ANd AzureWater, I think you should accept that ramenanmitsu knows japanese better than you (it's not an attack). You said it yourself, you're not very fluent in japanese, so you should listen what he says and believe him. Plus, as a japanese speaker, I confirm that he's right when he says that in this context, 想い has a meaning of thought, consideration. Japanese is all about context of its sentences. 

Edited by 咲耶姫, 12 May 2014 - 10:59 AM.

[Chatte]

@ramenanmitsu thanks a lot for your input, I really appreciate it very much for taking your time to make it all clear for us! At least, now we know the truth. And it's simple, like we said, yes, she still loves him, but not romantically anymore but as a nakama. & thx everyone else also!

I don't get it why's so hard?!

Edited by Chatte, 12 May 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@ramenanmitsu thanks a lot for your input, I really appreciate it very much for taking your time to make it all clear for us! At least, now we know the truth. And it's simple, like we said, yes, she still loves him, but not romantically anymore but as a nakama. & thx everyone else also!
I don't get it why's so hard?!

Welcome to my world.

Also to Ramen, you're right. I know that some words in Japanese can be used in multiple ways and it can be confusing but it's understandable once you learned them completely. I have a hard time and while I know some, I haven't gotten far. Perhaps I'll start studying again. Lol,

But thank you all. Start my morning good.

[AzureWaters]

In fact 同じ in this case would better be translated as "Still" rather than "same". Like "it's still love" and not "it's same love" and that's why you omitted on your first translation. 

 

ANd AzureWater, I think you should accept that ramenanmitsu knows japanese better than you (it's not an attack). You said it yourself, you're not very fluent in japanese, so you should listen what he says and believe him. Plus, as a japanese speaker, I confirm that he's right when he says that in this context, 想い has a meaning of thought, consideration. Japanese is all about context of its sentences. 

While I'm not fluent I believe I have a solid understanding of what was stated in the raw. But, I know my explaination appears to back the SS trans and that it wouldn't be very popular. lol trust me when I say that I *do want to believe the opposing interpretations, but when looking at the kanji it just doesn't come together as smoothly. Your welcome to take his and the others into more consideration though.

[redragon88]

In the end, was that japanese transcript going around in the weekend accurate to how the raw was?

 

If so, why did I keep hearing how it was actually pro-SS?

[六道仙人]

@咲耶姫. @ramenanmitsu

 

However, cannot the 同じ be translated as "similar" sometime, isn't?

[咲耶姫]

While I'm not fluent I believe I have a solid understanding of what was stated in the raw. But, I know my explaination appears to back the SS trans and that it wouldn't be very popular. lol trust me when I say that I *do want to believe the opposing interpretations, but when looking at the kanji it just doesn't come together as smoothly. Your welcome to take his and the others into more consideration though.

It has nothing to do with pairing, you say yourself that you don't know very well japanese, while it's ramenanmistu's mother language and I'm a student in japanese, why are you so sure you know japanese better than us? If we tell you in THAT context, 想い means "thoughts", "consideration" why cant you believe us? It's irritating, really, I saw this kind of context with this word several times in my class lessons, and everytime it was "thougts". 

 

In the end, was that japanese transcript going around in the weekend accurate to how the raw was?

 

If so, why did I keep hearing how it was actually pro-SS?

Because they interpretated it. In the end the only difference is the 同じ好き and it was proven for not meaning it's the same kind of love (pure romantic love). And because in their translation they translated "same/similar/ still love" into "same kind of love", so of course everyone believed Kakashi said Sakura loved Sasuke in the same way. 

Edited by 咲耶姫, 12 May 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Funny, no joke. Someone next to me is reading Naruto latest chapter from MP. I found out later and he was at that infamous panel. I'm like "Yeah, that's right!" Lol. I feel good.

[AzureWaters]

It has nothing to do with pairing, you say yourself that you don't know very well japanese, while it's ramenanmistu's mother language and I'm a student in japanese, why are you so sure you know japanese better than us? If we tell you in THAT context, 想い means "thoughts", "consideration" why cant you believe us? It's irritating, really, I saw this kind of context with this word several times in my class lessons, and everytime it was "thougts". 

 

 

 

Listen, just because you don't like my analysis of the raw doesn't mean you can be this rude. I just said you can take the others into more consideration. Please do so and stop being disrespectful.