54216 replies to this topic

[咲耶姫]

@KnS: I explained my point of view on this matter in my previous post. When you love a character that much, you tend to pay more attention to the passages where this character is inclued and you read with less attention the ones where he/she's not there. I think they love Hinata so much that it's clouding their mind. Even if I have to admit that I don't get it. 

It's kind of insane if you ask me.

But I think it's only one of the reason, because it's true that I already saw neutral fans who don't see the NS development. 

 

I don't understand why so many fan in the Naruto fandom don't get a story as simple as this. It was the same deal with Obito/Tobi matter: so many didn't see that coming while there was a lot of hints that pointed at this revelation. 

 

You said it's a phenomen that exists in other fandom. Could you tell me which ones? Because I have never seen a misunterstanding so strong in an other manga or anime, maybe in Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha but that's all I can think about.

And if not in manga, there was also Harry Potter or Lord of the Ring (but much less extreme) and Avatar.

[KnS]

I explained my point of view on this matter in my previous post. When you love a character that much, you tend to pay more attention to the passages where this character is inclued and you read with less attention the ones where he/she's not there. I think they love Hinata so much that it's clouding their mind. Even if I have to admit that I don't get it. 

It's kind of insane if you ask me.

 

I understand what you mean.  But I still have questions.    Why do they love Hinata so much?  WHY?  Why are they more interested in and concerned with Hinata and her feelings than they are about Naruto?  Naruto!!  He's the HERO, for crying out loud.  Why don't they want him to be happy and get the girl he's loved from the beginning?  

 

I don't understand why so many fan in the Naruto fandom don't get a story as simple as this. It was the same deal with Obito/Tobi matter: so many didn't see that coming while there was a lot of hints that pointed at this revelation. 

 

True.  Like I said, sometimes I think maybe the fact that it's been so "simple" is why some readers look for it to mean something else, or remain neutral.

 

You said it's a phenomen that exists in other fandom. Could you tell me which ones? 

 

Well, I've mentioned out here before that I'm new to manga.  Naruto is the only one I've read, so I don't claim to know much about it as a storytelling medium.  But a story is a story, and I understand how they are constructed.

 

As for the other fandoms, I was speaking mainly of book fandoms.  The top three examples are Harry Potter, Twilight, and Hunger Games.  I was very deep in the HP fandom, but not really a participant in the other two -- I just had good friends who are/were.  Nevertheless, the same kind of camps exist in each one -- fans who develop a real emotional attachment to a pairing that obviously will not be canon.

 

I don't want to say too much because I reeeeeally don't want to open old wounds or bring the Harry/Hermione fans on this site down on my head.     

 

But I will say that....

The way I saw it, the Potter movies were a little misleading (on purpose) about H/Hr, but the books were not misleading at all. Ron/Hermione was as obvious from the first book as NS has been from Chapter 3. I admit that Harry/Ginny was more difficult to see, but it was there in several subtle and consistent ways. (In a way, Harry and Ginny are like Naruto and Sakura: Harry looked just like his father, and Ginny was red-headed like Harry's mother and had a similar strength and temperament. As Rowling said, "anvil-sized hints.")   Granted, Kishimoto hasn't been forthcoming with clear shipping spoilers. But even if he was it wouldn't matter. When JK Rowling made it perfectly clear that H/Hr were like brother and sister, and a romance between them was never going to happen, H/Hr fans ignored her and went on shipping them until the end -- and then felt betrayed. I'll never understand it.

 

My overall point it is... people see different things in stories, want different things to happen, and reach different conclusions than the author intends without setting out to be contrary.  It's just what happens for some people.  Something like that hasn't happened to me yet so I don't see it, but I can't say it will never happen.

Edited by KnS, 07 November 2013 - 08:22 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

I understand what you mean.  But I still have questions.    Why do they love Hinata so much?  WHY?  Why are they more interested in and concerned with Hinata and her feelings than they are about Naruto?  Naruto!!  He's the HERO, for crying out loud.  Why don't they want him to be happy and get the girl he's loved from the beginning?  
 


 
True.  Like I said, sometimes I think maybe the fact that it's been so "simple" is why some readers look for it to mean something else, or remain neutral.
 


 

Well, I've mentioned out here before that I'm new to manga.  Naruto is the only one I've read, so I don't claim to know much about it as a storytelling medium.  But a story is a story, and I understand how they are constructed.
 
As for the other fandoms, I was speaking mainly of book fandoms.  The top three examples are Harry Potter, Twilight, and Hunger Games.  I was very deep in the HP fandom, but not really a participant in the other two -- I just had good friends who are/were.  Nevertheless, the same kind of camps exist in each one -- fans who develop a real emotional attachment to a pairing that obviously will not be canon.
 
I don't want to say too much because I reeeeeally don't want to open old wounds or bring the Harry/Hermione fans on this site down on my head.     
 

But I will say that....

The way I saw it, the Potter movies were a little misleading (on purpose) about H/Hr, but the books were not misleading at all. Ron/Hermione was as obvious from the first book as NS has been from Chapter 3. I admit that Harry/Ginny was more difficult to see, but it was there in several subtle and consistent ways. (In a way, Harry and Ginny are like Naruto and Sakura: Harry looked just like his father, and Ginny was red-headed like Harry's mother and had a similar strength and temperament. As Rowling said, "anvil-sized hints.")   Granted, Kishimoto hasn't been forthcoming with clear shipping spoilers. But even if he was it wouldn't matter. When JK Rowling made it perfectly clear that H/Hr were like brother and sister, and a romance between them was never going to happen, H/Hr fans ignored her and went on shipping them until the end -- and then felt betrayed. I'll never understand it.

 
My overall point it is... people see different things in stories, want different things to happen, and reach different conclusions than the author intends without setting out to be contrary.  It's just what happens for some people.  Something like that hasn't happened to me yet so I don't see it, but I can't say it will never happen.

My best guess is cause of the fillers or cause she was so nice when she first appeared.

I usually remain neutral on such things and even if I'm wrong I learn to accept it like when the coffin turned out to be Madara and not the Sage of Sixth Paths.

Yeah those films were miss leading when read the books it made more sense, in fact I think one of the HxG hints was when Ron implied he liked the idea of them together in the last chapter in the 5th book.

[Luna]

 

 

I understand what you mean.  But I still have questions.    Why do they love Hinata so much?  WHY?  Why are they more interested in and concerned with Hinata and her feelings than they are about Naruto?  Naruto!!  He's the HERO, for crying out loud.  Why don't they want him to be happy and get the girl he's loved from the beginning?  

 

 

True.  Like I said, sometimes I think maybe the fact that it's been so "simple" is why some readers look for it to mean something else, or remain neutral.

 

 

Well, I've mentioned out here before that I'm new to manga.  Naruto is the only one I've read, so I don't claim to know much about it as a storytelling medium.  But a story is a story, and I understand how they are constructed.

 

As for the other fandoms, I was speaking mainly of book fandoms.  The top three examples are Harry Potter, Twilight, and Hunger Games.  I was very deep in the HP fandom, but not really a participant in the other two -- I just had good friends who are/were.  Nevertheless, the same kind of camps exist in each one -- fans who develop a real emotional attachment to a pairing that obviously will not be canon.

 

I don't want to say too much because I reeeeeally don't want to open old wounds or bring the Harry/Hermione fans on this site down on my head.     

 

But I will say that....

The way I saw it, the Potter movies were a little misleading (on purpose) about H/Hr, but the books were not misleading at all. Ron/Hermione was as obvious from the first book as NS has been from Chapter 3. I admit that Harry/Ginny was more difficult to see, but it was there in several subtle and consistent ways. (In a way, Harry and Ginny are like Naruto and Sakura: Harry looked just like his father, and Ginny was red-headed like Harry's mother and had a similar strength and temperament. As Rowling said, "anvil-sized hints.")   Granted, Kishimoto hasn't been forthcoming with clear shipping spoilers. But even if he was it wouldn't matter. When JK Rowling made it perfectly clear that H/Hr were like brother and sister, and a romance between them was never going to happen, H/Hr fans ignored her and went on shipping them until the end -- and then felt betrayed. I'll never understand it.

 

My overall point it is... people see different things in stories, want different things to happen, and reach different conclusions than the author intends without setting out to be contrary.  It's just what happens for some people.  Something like that hasn't happened to me yet so I don't see it, but I can't say it will never happen.

 

LOOOL I'm a harry/hermoine fan but I'm over that now. I accepted it didn't happen a long time ago.  So you don't have to worry.

[Slextrem]

Guys, this video is brilliant:

 

 

I have never laughed so hard in my life. Watch it.

[Superman333]

Guys, this video is brilliant:

 

 

I have never laughed so hard in my life. Watch it.

lols , the denial bluetooth haha .  "Put it on , put it on .!!!" lols hahaha . 

[Question22]

The reactions on this video are perfectly adressed

[Superman333]

What’s your opinion about this NH argument :

 

Naruto has never really loved Sakura because :

 

-He didn’t defend her against Rock Lee when he was sending kisses to her at the chuunin exam...

-He let Sakura fighting Sasori alone (even if Chiyo was there) JUSTso he can follow Gaara’s dead body...

-He followed Orochimaru at the bridge, while Sakura was falling in the canyon instead of helping her...

-Naruto never said i twas for Sakura that he wanted to bring Sasuke back...

 

And here’s the best part :

-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesn’t make them closer...

 

So ? What can you say to counter this ?

 

1 . Why should he have to defend her against Rock Lee, it wasn't anything serious it wasn't like Rock Lee tried to jump on her and strip her clothes off and rape her. It was a harmless scene, that Sakura-Chan herself effortlessly dodged every single last one of those kisses lols, Naruto didn't have to defend her at that time and plus Naruto obviously wouldn't show that he is jealous any ways. and if this means anything in Chapter 36 when Rock Lee asked Sakura-Chan to be his, Naruto was obviously jealous in that panel and then was relieved when she turned Rock Lee down. 

 

2. Naruto time and time again has shown that he believes in Sakura-Chan's ability and strength, he knows she can take of herself he believes in her much more than anybody else. Naruto knew Sakura-Chan could take Sasori. 

 

3. Naruto was under the Kyuubi's influence, the end. 

 

4. That is plain denial, he said it when he first made the POAL. He told her he will bring Sasuke back for her. Yes he is doing it for himself also, but he is doing it to make Sakura-Chan happy and keep a smile on her face. 

 

 

Edited by Superman333, 07 November 2013 - 05:11 PM.

[Branden]

Is parent approval something of great importance in Japan? From what I've seen of Japanese culture so far it doesn't seem too important but I can't help but think that  Kishimoto is really trying to put emphasis on the idea that Minato and Kushina approve of NS. I know that when proposing marriage it would it's a big deal to the parents as it would be in almost all cultures but Naruto and Sakura haven't even been on a legit date yet. Kishimoto does have a family of his own so he's probably influenced by that when writing romance.

 

So if anyone knows a few things about Japanese culture please explain the importance of parental approval in romantic relationships.

 

various images Im posting because im bored

 

[sushi.]

That video is made by freakysandra here on H&E. Personally I'm rooting for a pairing moment even more now, just so she can make a video about it. She also made a hitler reaction to 631.

Is parent approval something of great importance in Japan? From what I've seen of Japanese culture so far it doesn't seem too important but I can't help but think that  Kishimoto is really trying to put emphasis on the idea that Minato and Kushina approve of NS. I know that when proposing marriage it would it's a big deal to the parents as it would be in almost all cultures but Naruto and Sakura haven't even been on a legit date yet. Kishimoto does have a family of his own so he's probably influenced by that when writing romance.

 

So if anyone knows a few things about Japanese culture please explain the importance of parental approval in romantic relationships.

 

various images Im posting because im bored

 

I only know one thing about parent approval in Japan, and that is that introduction is a very serious thing. Don't introduce your lover before you're like engaged or excepting or something. My impression on Japanese parenting is that respect is a keyword. You speak to them in a relatively serious and formal manner, especially in public. If a parent asks a serious question, answer seriously. Kushina's comment was a tease, a bit of a joke. But Minato's girlfriend question was serious, hence a necessary serious answer. It would be a direct insult to Minato if Naruto was in fact joking in 631.

 

Superman333; I can't help but comment on how misplaced that image was, since you just argued against such comments.

Edited by sushi., 07 November 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[Superman333]

That video is made by freakysandra here on H&E. Personally I'm rooting for a pairing moment even more now, just so she can make a video about it. She also made a hitler reaction to 631.

I only know one thing about parant approval in Japan, and that is that introduction is a very serious thing. Don't introduce your lover before you're like engaged or excepting or something. My impression on Japanese parenting is that respect is a keyword. You speak to them in a relatively serious and formal manner, especially in public. If a parent asks a serious question, answer seriously. Kushina's comment was a tease, a bit of a joke. But Minato's girlfriend question was serious, hence a necessary serious answer. It would be a direct insult to Minato if Naruto was in fact joking in 631.

 

Superman333; I can't help but comment on how misplaced that image was, since you just argued against such comments.

lols I thought it looked cool when everybody was doing it so I tried lols .  and they are idiots so some of the picture wasn't that out of place . 

Edited by Superman333, 07 November 2013 - 06:19 PM.

[Inferno180]

Guys, this video is brilliant:

 

 

I have never laughed so hard in my life. Watch it.

 

Oh my god, this is just as good as the hitler reacts to the chapter 631 video.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

 

 

The question I've asked myself many times, though... is such misreading of a story really intentional?  

 

I mean, for the sake of conversation let's assume it's true.  Why would someone do that?  Why choose to misinterpret an author's intentions?  Why have a closed mind about where the story is going, and how the hero / main character says he feels?  Why ignore obvious clues, then emotionally invest in the misinterpretation, only to be disappointed at the end? 

 

Maybe it's intentional on the part of some readers, but for others I think some other motivation has to be in play.  Maybe it's a preference for the long shot or the underdog.  Maybe it's a belief that if a pairing seems obvious it's already boring so they feel a need to dig deeper to find other connections.  Or maybe it's just arrogance that the reader thinks they know better than the author...?  

 

I don't get it, but it's a phenomenon I've seen over and over in other fandoms.  And once fans get invested in their preferences, it becomes a matter of principle that they will go down in flames defending.

 

Personally, I have no interest in making an emotional investment in a pairing that isn't going to be canon.  Not the lead characters, anyway.  Secondary characters that aren't likely to be officially paired off?  Sure, that can be fun to imagine or explore in fan fiction.  But I always support what I believe is the author's intended pairing(s).  

 

I guess that's why I believe other fans -- like NH fans, in this fandom -- must find a way, for whatever reason, to really see NH in the story and believe in it.  I have to assume they truly think NH is Kishimoto's intention, and that they're reading it right and we're not.  Otherwise the whole thing makes no sense to me.

 

 

I've wondered so many times about the mindset of some pairing fans, to so blatantly misinterpret and misconstrue a story all for the sake of a pairing and clinging so tightly to it even in the face of evidence to the contrary. Is it all just self-deception? I'm no psychologist, but I know the human mind is very good at deceiving itself to fit any number of interpretations, whatever suits them best. I have never been a reader to let myself become blinded by preference, I want to remain open to the story the author is trying to tell, though of course that doesn't mean I don't get disappointed sometimes or feel that there may have been something I thought a writer could have done differently that could have made for a better story.

 

And as for pairings, it just doesn't make sense to me to twist things around that ultimately just hurt the reader's comprehension of the overall story, simply because they want A and C to happen over A and B. Why, when they will only bring disappointment to themselves in the end? Yet it happens all the time. There's nothing wrong with having a preference other than what the author intends, but that should not be something that a reader allows to color their perception of the big picture.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 07 November 2013 - 07:51 PM.

[Hanabi]

Guys, this video is brilliant:

 

 

I have never laughed so hard in my life. Watch it.

omg its freaking perfect xD

[BlueStarSaber]

Would this video hold any truth?

[sushi.]

^No. The portrayal of a screaming NH kid is not funny nor a true adaption. It just hurt my ears.

 

I've wondered so many times about the mindset of some pairing fans, to so blatantly misinterpret and misconstrue a story all for the sake of a pairing and clinging so tightly to it even in the face of evidence to the contrary. Is it all just self-deception? I'm no psychologist, but I know the human mind is very good at deceiving itself to fit any number of interpretations, whatever suits them best. I have never been a reader to let myself become blinded by preference, I want to remain open to the story the author is trying to tell, though of course that doesn't mean I don't get disappointed sometimes or feel that there may have been something I thought a writer could have done differently that could have made for a better story.

 

And as for pairings, it just doesn't make sense to me to twist things around that ultimately just hurt the reader's comprehension of the overall story, simply because they want A and C to happen over A and B. Why, when they will only bring disappointment to themselves in the end? Yet it happens all the time. There's nothing wrong with having a preference other than what the author intends, but that should not be something that a reader allows to color their perception of the big picture.

The way I understand the pairings, they all fulfill their roles in the story. Only one is there to become canon(need I say NS? ). NH/SS in my opinion, is there to create obstacles, character development and dimension in the romance-subplot. I don't really consider myself much of an anti-pairing fan anymore, because I like the way they are portrayed in the manga and I think it has benefited the plot+characters. I just don't like the false idea of them being romantic in nature. I don't think that is what they're meant for.

 

If I had to choose, I would say I ilke SS more. I resent the idea of them being canon, but I really like the bond that is true in the story. SS was written better than NH in my opinion, because they had more of a bond than NH ever had. Plus, Sakura has somewhat overcome the obstacles she must to move on with her life. I can't say the same about Hinata, unfortunately. Maybe it's because Sakura is as a main character, more consistenly written? Sasuke was one of Sakura's sources for determination, and at times she reached him in part one. But whatever was there between them back then, I can't see the compassion anymore.

 

As for NH, I am really growing impatient towards Hinata in this aspect. It still holds her back as a character;She got distracted on a mission due to her feelings for him (to the point where Sakura who was primarily focused on the enemy had to snap her out of it), has to think of Naruto before she got her power-up, blocks everyone else out when Naruto is present etc. And her confession, oh god..it was not portrayed negatively by other characters, but that is IMO only because it turned out well. What a coincidence, what luck. Some fans may view all this as sweet, but I think not. It has been represented as a problem at times and it is still on-going. But it'll turn out good in the end I think.

 

Ugh...you know I never plan to write these LAPs, it all turns out as rambling. Point is, NH/SS exists for other reasons than canon romance.

Edited by sushi., 07 November 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't mind them liking the pairing. It's just the idea that they want it to happen in canon where the story is well, a whole new story, they can't really change anything that has been written. Maybe if Kishi gets in an accident and crash to a home in middle of mountains, then it's possible for one fan to bring him home and force him to write the best story from that fan's point of view. Get the joke on the way home.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

^No. The portrayal of a screaming NH kid is not funny nor a true adaption. It just hurt my ears.

 

The way I understand the pairings, they all fulfill their roles in the story. Only one is there to become canon(need I say NS? ). NH/SS in my opinion, is there to create obstacles, character development and dimension in the romance-subplot. I don't really consider myself much of an anti-pairing fan anymore, because I like the way they are portrayed in the manga and I think it has benefited the plot+characters. I just don't like the false idea of them being romantic in nature. I don't think that is what they're meant for.

 

If I had to choose, I would say I ilke SS more. I resent the idea of them being canon, but I really like the bond that is true in the story. SS was written better than NH in my opinion, because they had more of a bond than NH ever had. Plus, Sakura has somewhat overcome the obstacles she must to move on with her life. I can't say the same about Hinata, unfortunately. Maybe it's because Sakura is as a main character, more consistenly written? Sasuke was one of Sakura's sources for determination, and at times she reached him in part one. But whatever was there between them back then, I can't see the compassion anymore.

 

As for NH, I am really growing impatient towards Hinata in this aspect. It still holds her back as a character;She got distracted on a mission due to her feelings for him (to the point where Sakura who was primarily focused on the enemy had to snap her out of it), has to think of Naruto before she got her power-up, blocks everyone else out when Naruto is present etc. And her confession, oh god..it was not portrayed negatively by other characters, but that is IMO only because it turned out well. What a coincidence, what luck. Some fans may view all this as sweet, but I think not. It has been represented as a problem at times and it is still on-going. But it'll turn out good in the end I think.

 

Ugh...you know I never plan to write these LAPs, it all turns out like rambling. Point is, NH/SS exists for other reasons than canon romance.

 

For the bolded: Yeah I agree. There was definitely one time that I would have considered myself Anti- NH/SS, but not so much anymore, just the idea of viewing them romantically, like you said. Though for me, my view towards SS tends to be more negative than my view towards NH, but it's kind of strange, because I prefer SasuSaku's role in the story over NaruHina's, I guess it's kind of hard to explain.

[BlueStarSaber]

^No. The portrayal of a screaming NH kid is not funny nor a true adaption. It just hurt my ears.
 

The way I understand the pairings, they all fulfill their roles in the story. Only one is there to become canon(need I say NS? ). NH/SS in my opinion, is there to create obstacles, character development and dimension in the romance-subplot. I don't really consider myself much of an anti-pairing fan anymore, because I like the way they are portrayed in the manga and I think it has benefited the plot+characters. I just don't like the false idea of them being romantic in nature. I don't think that is what they're meant for.
 
If I had to choose, I would say I ilke SS more. I resent the idea of them being canon, but I really like the bond that is true in the story. SS was written better than NH in my opinion, because they had more of a bond than NH ever had. Plus, Sakura has somewhat overcome the obstacles she must to move on with her life. I can't say the same about Hinata, unfortunately. Maybe it's because Sakura is as a main character, more consistenly written? Sasuke was one of Sakura's sources for determination, and at times she reached him in part one. But whatever was there between them back then, I can't see the compassion anymore.
 
As for NH, I am really growing impatient towards Hinata in this aspect. It still holds her back as a character;She got distracted on a mission due to her feelings for him (to the point where Sakura who was primarily focused on the enemy had to snap her out of it), has to think of Naruto before she got her power-up, blocks everyone else out when Naruto is present etc. And her confession, oh god..it was not portrayed negatively by other characters, but that is IMO only because it turned out well. What a coincidence, what luck. Some fans may view all this as sweet, but I think not. It has been represented as a problem at times and it is still on-going. But it'll turn out good in the end I think.
 
Ugh...you know I never plan to write these LAPs, it all turns out as rambling. Point is, NH/SS exists for other reasons than canon romance.

Sorry my bad on the video :'(

That's interesting usually it's NH that NS fans would prefer of the two, though I have to admit if Sauske Never tried to kill her it would look soooo much better, not great better better than it is now.

Didn't Neji asked why she did something so foolish?

I don't mind them liking the pairing. It's just the idea that they want it to happen in canon where the story is well, a whole new story, they can't really change anything that has been written. Maybe if Kishi gets in an accident and crash to a home in middle of mountains, then it's possible for one fan to bring him home and force him to write the best story from that fan's point of view. Get the joke on the way home.

King

You know I bet when NS happens they wished that they just shipped for fun instead of going into a pairing war.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I will admit, the illusion that many fandoms created prevented me to see the picture and sometimes, have a hard time to accept what's there rather what's being overshadowed with a random interpretation. I won't let them get the best of me. So, now I can see an actual picture. While I do demand something from this manga, I don't get upset when it doesn't happen. To me, I feel that this latest chapter demonstrated people's thoughts on how they wanted it, rather see how it's being done. We can still judge if it's good or bad, but at times, people somehow missed the picture.