1196 replies to this topic

[Atheck]

It was meant for puppeteers. Chiyo was talking about what she needs to fight a puppeteer, not anyone else. And in regards to dodging, Sakura was saying that shedoes not know the habit of puppeteers, therefore she can't estimate where the attacks will land and dodge them.

If that were true, she would have made a specification that highlights the uncommon nature of her opponent's attack speed being related with the methods and tactics of a puppeteer. These are their exact words...

Chiyo: "To avoid his attacks... You'll have to know the puppet maker's taste for placing traps. You need the ability to see through and avoid the attacks as they come, and they come in a split second."

Sakura: "Knowledge of traps... And the ability to make split-second decisions. I don't have either of those."

Notice how they're both separating and distinguishing these factors from each other? The aforementioned uniqueness of the puppeteer is not the origin for the quickness of the attacks, that wasn't specified. If it were the reason, Chiyo would have worded her explanation in a manner appropriate for conveying the puppeteer statuses' essentiality for the speed. She was merely stating two conditions that would need to be met before Sakura could effectively dodge Sasori's attacks. There was nothing complex about the Hiruko puppet's senbon barrage or Sasori shooting a thick pointed cable from his abdomen, yet both times Sakura couldn't avoid them on her own.
 

The other thing she lacks is battle experience. Even Naruto in the beginning of part one doesn't have what it takes to fight a puppeteer.

Obviously not. He was a bumptious and overenthusiastic rookie whose first instinct was to rush his opponent, regardless of their status or the uncertain nature of their abilities. The one and only time he tried to fight a puppeteer, he was tripped up by some strings on their fingers. But that had more to with Naruto's unfamiliarity with puppeteers than any speed gap.
 

But that doesn't automatically mean he can't fight other opponents who aren't puppeteers. Different opponents have different skills you need to fight with. So you cannot judge her ability to fight in the present with that quote alone.

True, nothing is set in stone unless it's transpired in the manga, but with the information we do have and the statistical charts provided in the Databook, you can make an evaluation to justify your conclusion about who is the superior fighter.
 

Take Deidara for example. He lost against Sasuke. But Sasuke at that time wouldn't have been able to win against Kazekage Gaara. That's because Deidara's skills and attacks are well fit to fight a bijuu, but not shinobi like Sasuke.

While I think that's debatable (Gaara has been given a field advantage in almost half of the fights that he's been in since Shippuden began), you're entitled to believe what you want. Sasuke vs Gaara isn't the subject of the discussion.

[Khaleesi]

Yeah XD. Maybe I do sound rude at times but really...that's never my intention..

nah. you never sound rude, don't worry

[TouKen4Life3g]

Anyone in East coast time zone know when the last chapter was released?

[tonga1]

Redemption doesn't excuse murder.

the worst is..sasuke never pay for his crimes

[ramenanmitsu]

One thing I want to point out before the next chapter comes out.
I have a strange feeling that the next thing that I'm going to talk about will happen.
Now regardless if the fight with Kaguya is over or not. I have a feeling that the Rikudou will wait for everyone under the IT to wake up, and then he's going to tell them that, they should listen to Sasuke and Naruto from now on. Because Sasuke and Naruto will lead the world and only they together can change the world and bring true peace.
 
I have this feeling because if you go back to the chapter when the Rikudou appeared and started to talk about Indra and Ashura and the reincarnation bla bla bla. He mentioned that previously he left the world in Ashura's hands. Now I'm hoping he was just referring to the Madara/Kaguya fight when he gave Sasuke that power-up. But I wouldn't be surprised if he tells everyone that the fate of the world is now in Naruto and Sasuke's hands because together they are the "Child Of Prophecy"/"The ones that are going to bring true peace".
I hope this is not going to happen.
 
 
@Firefox fixed.

I pray to god that it's nothing more than a kitten prediction of yours. Unfortunately, I cannot be so certain when it comes to Kishi.

If that were true, she would have made a specification that highlights the uncommon nature of her opponent's attack speed being related with the methods and tactics of a puppeteer. These are their exact words...

Chiyo: "To avoid his attacks... You'll have to know the puppet maker's taste for placing traps. You need the ability to see through and avoid the attacks as they come, and they come in a split second."

Sakura: "Knowledge of traps... And the ability to make split-second decisions. I don't have either of those."

Notice how they're both separating and distinguishing these factors from each other? The aforementioned uniqueness of the puppeteer is not the origin for the quickness of the attacks, that wasn't specified. If it were the reason, Chiyo would have worded her explanation in a manner appropriate for conveying the puppeteer statuses' essentiality for the speed. She was merely stating two conditions that would need to be met before Sakura could effectively dodge Sasori's attacks. There was nothing complex about the Hiruko puppet's senbon barrage or Sasori shooting a thick pointed cable from his abdomen, yet both times Sakura couldn't avoid them on her own.

I'll wait until I or someone else can provide me with the raw. I find it pointless to debate based on grammar specifics when it's not the original text. When I read it in raw I "thought" she was talking about Sasori but that was years ago and I can't be sure of my memory. Also I don't have that volume since my mother sold that to the bookstore without my consent. Do you know what chapter and what page it is?

in the Databook, you can make an evaluation to justify your conclusion about who is the superior fighter.

We're talking about Hiashi vs current Sakura right? I'd agree if the data book covers the war arc. But it doesn't and I'm not going to base my opinion over something that's outdated. Especially, since a long list of characters had huge developments during the war arc.

 

While I think that's debatable (Gaara has been given a field advantage in almost half of the fights that he's been in since Shippuden began), you're entitled to believe what you want. Sasuke vs Gaara isn't the subject of the discussion.

My point wasn't to discuss Sasuke vs Deidara. It was to point out that you can't base a character's inability to fight opponent A based on their specific inability to fight opponent B. The abilities needed to fight opponent A could be different to the abilities needed to fight opponent B.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 04 September 2014 - 12:25 AM.

[六道仙人]

Anyone in East coast time zone know when the last chapter was released?

 

it was thursday at 9:30 AM, more or less...

[rocci]

True but you forgot to mention that all her power is just hers. No borrowing or freebies for her. It's just her.

I have a feeling that she will not become normal/ordinary human anymore.

@lifeless leo
For me, I make four tier for jounin level. Low, mid, high, and elite.
Base Kakashi, hiashi, and some jounin put into elite jounin.
Kakashi for example need chakra level like hiruzen to be hokage level.
Now kakashi has ms, he doesn't need big chakra.

Edited by rocci, 04 September 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[luffyq1]

I have a feeling that she will not become normal/ordinary human anymore.

That's a wrong feeling you have there. 

[soraandven]

 

it was thursday at 9:30 AM, more or less...

meaning 3 hrs earlier for pst

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Jounin is pretty much a low tier Hokage level.

That's so funny, i remember very well on the begining of Naruto how the jounin were high ranked and often called as really stronk, on top of that were the ANBU but they were so weak, they were ridiculously weak.

Kabuto wasnt even that strong and he managed to get rid of 4 of them alone and still infiltrated on the village.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 04 September 2014 - 12:28 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

it was thursday at 9:30 AM, more or less...

Damn...I hope that's not the case from this point forward. Don't want to be left out during work.

[Hiraishin]

Yeah I want him to sacrifice his life or to do good things.
That line is Jiraiya's I believe.This is one of the best along with Gaara's famous line but Kishi ignores it.*Sigh*

What line of Gaara's?

[rocci]

That's a wrong feeling you have there. 

Perhaps, time will tell.

@darkrest
Kabuto is elite jounin. He can goes toe to toe with kakashi & rusty tsunade.
And kabuto is too strong for anbu. And anbu can't stop the giant snake.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Perhaps, time will tell.

@darkrest
Kabuto is elite jounin. He can goes toe to toe with kakashi & rusty tsunade.
And kabuto is too strong for anbu. And anbu can't stop the giant snake.

He lost to Naruto(Small) with rasengan.
And they werent top jounin but ANBU.
Also there was no toe to toe with Kakashi he escaped when he faced him, also during the invasion Kakashi wasnt fighting against Kabuto alone, he had sand + sound ninjas.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 04 September 2014 - 12:39 AM.

[rocci]

He lost to Naruto(Small) with rasengan.
And they werent top jounin but ANBU.
Also there was no toe to toe with Kakashi he escaped when he faced him, also during the invasion Kakashi wasnt fighting against Kabuto alone, he had sand + sound ninjas.

Naruto trick him.
If I'm not mistaken, anbu is jounin. And did I said anbu is top jounin?
Kabuto + garra teacher vs kakashi + the referee, the fight get a skip but we see the outcome the fight. It was a draw, but the battle is lost so they need to retreat.

[Khaleesi]

That's so funny, i remember very well on the begining of Naruto how the jounin were high ranked and often called as really stronk, on top of that were the ANBU but they were so weak, they were ridiculously weak.

Kabuto wasnt even that strong and he managed to get rid of 4 of them alone and still infiltrated on the village.

For being Jounin you need more than just power or even not power, but other kind of things... That pervert dude with dark glasses was pretty weak, eh. He was an elite teacher (basic 1,...okay his name is Ebisu). He's a Tokubetsu Jounin. They are specialists. Their formation is around one area. (Like Ibiki)

First, you become Jounin if you have control over two types of nature of chackra, good taijutsu and ninjutsu or being specialist in only one (like Guy or Kurenai). So, this doesn't tell us they are "woow!!! the strongers!!!". You can pass 3 classes with 11, 12 or 13 over 20. But then, we have people that have pass with 17, 18, 19 or people that pass with 06,20,10

Second, when becoming a Chunnin you need to demonstrate flexibility, imagination, basic skills and the capacity of plaining during battle. This is what you need for Jounin too, plus leadership skills, being capable of instruct and train genins and experience. If you don't want to become a Jounin that will have Genins you can choose being part of ANBUs. They are lvl Jounin if we speak literally.

 

Neither of those can say if someone is "BAM! i'm amazing, babe! i'm freaking powerful!", only that if they deserve the title or not.

Naruto is god level but he can't be Jounin nor Kage. (At least he's only Kage by name and when it comes to protect the village, but Sakura/Shikamaru do the real work) He's, as much, qualified as Chuunin.

 

EDIT: And i think if we talk about "Elite Jounin" that's just subjective, because that term doesn't exist in narutoverse. But we can point that, apart of having those skills that anyone needs to become Jounin, some of the Jounins are really powerfull. In that way, he can use it as a reference to say a Jounin that is trully strong. 

You know, with the skills that are needed to become a Jounin you can manage yourself in dangerous situations that Chunnins could lose. Like those 2 or 3 Jounins vs Hidan, if they did not have those skills, they would never survive. And they didn't were particularly powerful.

Edited by theunburnt, 04 September 2014 - 01:31 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, the chapter is almost out and in a way, it's a turning point of maybe not just the arc but the series itself. So with that said I just listed all of the possibilities/predictions that can happen within the next chapter or later after that. Whether it's my preference or not, like or dislike, whatever it is, these are the ones I came up with:

-Sasuke reveals his plan to the world.
-Sasuke reveals his plan to what's currently standing. 
-Naruto vs. Sasuke starts as the setup has kages watching along with Team 7 and Hagoromo.
-Naruto vs. Sasuke starts as only Hokages, Team 7 and/or Hagoromo watching.
-Naruto vs. Sasuke starts after the whole problems ended, thus have the world watch them.
-Infinite Tsukuyomi ended due to Kaguya/Juubi's end.
-Infinite Tsukuyomi ended due to Hagoromo doing it with his own power.
-Infinite Tsukuyomi ended due to Sasuke (if it's not an art error) doing it with his own power.
-Infinite Tsukuyomi ended due to Madara doing it with his own power.
-Hagoromo explains the missing info on his past including Hamura and Kaguya.
-Hagoromo flashbacks it to get the clear understanding.
-Madara wakes up thanks to Hagoromo doing that sun seal power.
-Madara wakes up and start learning his mistakes by Hagoromo/Naruto/other (your choice)
-Madara wakes up and already understand his mistakes.
-Madara revives everyone.
-Madara revives some of them (maybe weak?)
-Hagoromo doing the revival (hey, you never know)
-Bijuus get their freedom granted with all Kages being there (spiritual and edo)
-Bijuus get their freedom granted with all Kages being there with the help of Hagoromo (speech)
 
That's all I can think of as of now.
 
Trivia: Madara would be the first TnJ that isn't really Naruto's parallel.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 04 September 2014 - 04:11 AM.

[TerrorKing]

Okay chapter, but I have a hard time believing that Kaguya is really gone for good. I hope not, because I really want to learn more about her. Everything about her is just so random. She shows up out of nowhere and then before you know it, she's gone and we're supposedly back to Madara. I really just feels like there's something missing. 

 

But yeah, the chapter was okay. Kishi continues to deliver on the Sakura goodness and that is always nice. I especially enjoyed the interaction between her and Naruto. I would be nice if we could get a break in the action and have some good old fashioned face to face character development a la chapter 469.

[NaruSakuNo1Fan]

So... waiting up tonight for the chapter= not a good idea?

[Anthony]

So... waiting up tonight for the chapter= not a good idea?

You tell me about it, I woke up at 1:30 AM in hopes of reading the new chapter...