1649 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

the confession was real that's been debunked.

No it wasnt.
 

Now moving on to the actual problem here that is 540. Like I said either misinterpretation or a step back for Sakura's character and makes the development of NS up to that moment pointless.

Step back?
NS development pointless?

Ns didnt had a development in terms of romance aspect up to that point, the major progress was Sakura viewing Naruto on a romantic light on the fake confession and that's all.
And Naruto's feelings.
And viewing doesnt mean she actually loves him on that way.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 May 2014 - 12:43 AM.

[Gojira]

No it wasnt.
 
Step back?
NS development pointless?

Wut m8?

It was, regardless of whether you believe it or not that is not exactly the primary topic of discussion.

All that development is rendered pretty useless if after all that's happened while her view of Sasuke is at an all time low and her view of Naruto is at an all time high she still prefers Sasuke and talks about him as the someone else.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

It was, regardless of whether you believe it or not that is not exactly the primary topic of discussion.

All that development is rendered pretty useless if after all that's happened while her view of Sasuke is at an all time low and her view of Naruto is at an all time high she still prefers Sasuke and talks about him as the someone else.

So you say that she should have choose Naruto regardless of her feelings for Sasuke?
Because that's what you're telling me, the NS development makes sense for NaruSaku to happen but however this development is incomplete due to a lot of things that needs to be resolved like Sasuke, Naruto's wall and Sakura's feelings for Naruto.

The summit ended with her still having feelings for Sasuke.

Step back, would be Sakura going Karin's route, despite all that and the killing attempts still wants to be at his side, i dont see Sakura acting like Karin, therefore your interpretation that the NS development render pointless is invalid.

Your mistake is that you're connecting "still liking someome" with "prefers" those things doesnt connect at all, one person can still like someome and prefers to not be with him and get rid of those feelings.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 May 2014 - 12:48 AM.

[FrenchMyToast]

I love how this chapter showed how important Naruto is to Team 7. He is the glue that keeps them together. Without him, it would be very awkward, I think, as every SS interaction seems forced and cold at this point.

[Gojira]

So you say that she should have choose Naruto regardless of her feelings for Sasuke?
Because that's what you're telling me, the NS development makes sense for NaruSaku to happen but however this development is incomplete due to a lot of things that needs to be resolved like Sasuke, Naruto's wall and Sakura's feelings for Naruto.

The summit ended with her still having feelings for Sasuke.

Step back, would be Sakura going Karin's route, despite all that and the killing attempts still wants to be at his side, i dont see Sakura acting like Karin, therefore your interpretation that the NS development render pointless is invalid.

Yes! That is precisely what I've been saying this whole time.

NS development is crucial in the end but it doesn't go well unless she actually chooses Naruto over Sasuke as oppose to getting tired of Sasuke's kitten and having Naruto catch on the rebound.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yes! That is precisely what I've been saying this whole time.

NS development is crucial in the end but it doesn't go well unless she actually chooses Naruto over Sasuke as oppose to getting tired of Sasuke's bullsh** and having Naruto catch on the rebound.

Naruto should had fell in love with the ramen girl he would be better off.

[Gojira]

Naruto should had fell in love with the ramen girl he would be better off.

If you are finished being irrelevant, I'd like to continue the discussion now.

[ramenanmitsu]

No but you see that's precisely what I'm saying. The murder attempts she's ok with but its not after she's reminded that he's not a great guy does she officially decline in feelings for her.

No she isn't. She cried after she was nearly killed. She was disappointed with Sasuke, she thought, "how heartless." Does that look like she's okay?

 

 

 

That's why I say 540 is either a misinterpretation or a step back for her character and pretty much renders all the part 2 development moments pointless if after everything the one she still favors is Sasuke

The motives behind the confession(to protect Naruto), the way she talked back to Sasuke, and how she's always cheering Naruto shows that she thinks of Naruto as more important than Sasuke, whether those feelings are romantic or not. 

 

So where is this step back for her character you're talking about? 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 12 May 2014 - 02:37 AM.

[Gojira]

No she isn't. She cried after she was nearly killed. She was disappointed with Sasuke, she thought, "how heartless." Does that look like she's okay?
 
The motives behind the confession(to protect Naruto), the way she talked back to Sasuke, and how she's always cheering Naruto shows that she thinks of Naruto as more important than Sasuke, whether those feelings are romantic or not. 
 
So where is this step back for her character you're talking about?

The step back is the fact that after the murder attempts, between the two of them despite her viewing Sasuke at an all time low and Naruto at an all time high and Naruto being the one who is closer to her and actually does love her she claims that the someone else is Sasuke. That's the step back I'm referring to.

[ramenanmitsu]

The step back is the fact that after the murder attempts, between the two of them despite her viewing Sasuke at an all time low and Naruto at an all time high and Naruto being the one who is closer to her and actually does love her she claims that the someone else is Sasuke. That's the step back I'm referring to.

Huh? So are you saying that who that character have romantic feelings for determines their character development? You're saying that she's a step back because she isn't in love with Naruto? 

 

In that case, all I can say is that this is not a shoujo. She's not obliged to fall in love with Naruto, just as Naruto is not obliged to fall in love with Hinata, and Sasuke is not obliged to fall in love with Sakura. How is your argument any different to all the NH fans who call out on Naruto being a jerk just because he's not in love with Hinata?

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 12 May 2014 - 02:52 AM.

[Gojira]

Huh? So are you saying that who that character have romantic feelings for determines their character development? You're saying that she's a step back because she isn't in love with Naruto? 
 
In that case, all I can say is that this is not a shoujo. She's not obliged to fall in love with Naruto, just as Naruto is not obliged to fall in love with Hinata, and Sasuke is not obliged to fall in love with Sakura. How is your argument any different to all the NH fans who call out on Naruto being a jerk just because he's not in love with Hinata?

...clearly your misunderstanding my post here.

I'm not saying that they're obliged to fall in love with anyone, with that said her being in love with Naruto has already been confirmed atleast twice in the manga and backed up with statements in the databooks.

I'm just saying all that NS development is kind of pointless since after everything that happened, supposedly giving an honest confession to Naruto and viewing Sasuke like she never has before, she still clearly favors him which I think is....stupid. If the point was to establish that thinking about Sasuke breaks her heart...we already knew that she even said that in the confession that part is perfectly fine by me. The problem is that even though we know she's going to end up with Naruto she's essentially not going to choose Naruto over Sasuke. It gives more the impression that she's sick of Sasuke's kitten and Naruto comes swooping in for the rebound. I want NS to be canon as much as the next person but it seems kind of pointless that the only real reason it became canon was because Sasuke just happened to become a psychopath for a short time and that Sakura not only had to face that but actually be reminded of that to actually get over him.

[ramenanmitsu]

...clearly your misunderstanding my post here.

I'm not saying that they're obliged to fall in love with anyone, with that said her being in love with Naruto has already been confirmed atleast twice in the manga and backed up with statements in the databooks.

I'm just saying all that NS development is kind of pointless since after everything that happened, supposedly giving an honest confession to Naruto and viewing Sasuke like she never has before, she still clearly favors him which I think is....stupid. If the point was to establish that thinking about Sasuke breaks her heart...we already knew that she even said that in the confession that part is perfectly fine by me. The problem is that even though we know she's going to end up with Naruto she's essentially not going to choose Naruto over Sasuke. It gives more the impression that she's sick of Sasuke's bullsh** and Naruto comes swooping in for the rebound. I want NS to be canon as much as the next person but it seems kind of pointless that the only real reason it became canon was because Sasuke just happened to become a psychopath for a short time and that Sakura not only had to face that but actually be reminded of that to actually get over him.

@1st bolded: I already said in my previous post that she thinks of Naruto as more important to her than Sasuke. Where did you get the idea that she favors Sasuke more? And if you're thinking of favor=romance, then I haven't misunderstood your post about thinking that she is obliged to fall in love with Naruto. You calling her stupid because she isn't is a testament to that.

 

@2nd bolded: Where did you get THAT idea?

 

Definition of rebound: Going from one relationship to the next right away to avoid the pain of a breakup.

 

Going with the above definition, Naruto is not a rebound. 1.) Sakura wasn't dating Sasuke, 2.) She's not going to date Naruto to romantically forget about Sasuke and 3.) She's not dating Naruto while she's still in love with Sasuke. 

 

The recent chapter has proved that she has fallen out of love with Sasuke. If she is going to get together with Naruto, Sasuke has nothing to do with that. It's all about Naruto and Sakura, and them only. If she's in love with Naruto, she will be together with him. If she isn't in love with him, she won't end up with Naruto nor Sasuke. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 12 May 2014 - 03:53 AM.

[Gojira]

@1st bolded: I already said in my previous post that she thinks of Naruto as more important to her than Sasuke. Where did you get the idea that she favors Sasuke more? And if you're thinking of favor=romance, then I haven't misunderstood your post about thinking that she is obliged to fall in love with Naruto. You calling her stupid because she isn't is a testament to that.
 
@2nd bolded: Where did you get THAT idea?
 
Definition of rebound: Going from one relationship to the next right away to avoid the pain of a breakup.
 
Going with the above definition, Naruto is not a rebound. 1.) Sakura wasn't dating Sasuke, 2.) She's not going to date Naruto to romantically forget about Sasuke and 3.) She's not dating Naruto while she's still in love with Sasuke.

1. I'm not calling her stupid I'm saying the existence of 540 itself was stupid, it came to tell us something we already knew but in addition to that despite everything that happened up to that point she would rather be with Sasuke, since he's the someone else as oppose to the other person who she also loves and loves her back, that's what makes 540 stupid.

2. For kitten's sake you know what I mean.....fine it still gives the impression that he's not the gold medal.

[ramenanmitsu]

1. I'm not calling her stupid I'm saying the existence of 540 itself was stupid, it came to tell us something we already knew but in addition to that despite everything that happened up to that point she would rather be with Sasuke, since he's the someone else as oppose to the other person who she also loves and loves her back, that's what makes 540 stupid.

2. For kitten's sake you know what I mean.....fine it still gives the impression that he's not the gold medal.

1. Okay, even if chapter 540 is stupid, what you're saying doesn't really make sense. On one hand you're saying that she's not obliged to fall in love with Naruto, and then on the other hand you're saying that chapter 540 is stupid because she's in love with Sasuke instead of Naruto. I think you are contradicting yourself. 

 

2. Lol, why the hell do I have to know the real meaning of your misuse of wordings? Anyways, I elaborated in my previous post. Please check again. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 12 May 2014 - 04:04 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Okay. I'm going to add my two cents.

 

Firstly, Naruto didn't believe Sakura loved him. I feel like Naruto completely shut down the possibility because of the circumstances and how Sakura tried explaining why she liked him. Naruto wasn't happy and it was made even more apparent by how he interrupted her "From the bottom of my heart I" line.  If Naruto really believed Sakura loved him, then why would he act so angry and be so tense at how she worded her confession? I don't think Sakura lying about her feelings for Sasuke would be enough for him to get that mad. Remember this?

 

"What, have you flipped? I just switched from Sasuke to you, that's all." --->  Sakura said this when Naruto pushed her away.

 

After that, he said he hated people who lied to themselves. Naruto was clearly shutting down everything she was saying, including the part of Sakura having feelings for him. That's why 631's a little confusing for me based on his expression, but maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

 

As for Sakura and 540 ... blegh I hate how debatable this moment is.  I don't believe Sakura favors Sasuke over Naruto and she most definitely didn't mean she was in a "relationship" with Sasuke in 540. In fact, I don't even think Sakura was referring to Sasuke or Naruto when she said there's someone else she liked. I just feel like she said that to let him down easy and even if she was thinking of Sasuke, then that didn't mean she wants to be with him romantically. She doesn't like her feelings for Sasuke at that point; she downright hated it.

 

Also, IMO, saying Sakura doesn't consider Naruto romantically at all is false. She wouldn't blatantly say with genuine honesty that Naruto isn't someone she thinks of romantically and that thought never even crosses her mind. Sakura is aware of her changing relationship with Naruto and that it might be something more than friendship, but the problem with her is she hasn't got the answer on what it is yet. That does not mean she doesn't love Naruto. I do believe she loves Naruto, but I feel like she's confused over whatever she thinks she feels for Sasuke and all the development with her relationship with Naruto.

 

And before anyone throws the interview at me as Sakura's being honest about loving Naruto, I have this to say. Why are we putting so much weight in an interview? Why would Kishimoto just reveal Sakura loving Naruto instead of keeping up the ambiguity? My issue isn't denying the writer's words. I just feel uncomfortable saying he really said that when interviews aren't always reliable sources. It could've been corrupted by bias translators. I would accept Kishi's words if they're real, but I find it just really bizarre of him. Please tell me I'm not the only one who feels like this.

 

I mentioned it before in the debate thread, but I find it unlikely Sakura knows she no longer loves Sasuke and knows she loves Naruto. Even ignoring the summit arc, 540 did indicate to me Sakura at least believes she loves Sasuke even though she no longer does; not that she's proud of it and she even appears to want to move on. I only say this because I don't get how Sakura can look so crappy and miserable, think of Sasuke after someone said "Someone you love must be a great guy", over someone she once loved. Why would she feel ashamed of loving Part 1 Sasuke? He wasn't that bad. And if she really does love Naruto, then I would feel like she'd be happy and think of him instead of being completely miserable and think of Sasuke first. Like I said, this doesn't mean she favors Sasuke or dismisses the possibility of loving Naruto as well out of her mind.

 

Is it possible in 540 Sakura realized she didn't love Sasuke anymore? I guess, but it just seems too easy. I don't think Sakura can just get over Sasuke that simply with all the drama in Summit Arc (though I could be wrong). I always thought the NaruSakuSasu love triangle couldn't be resolved that easily. To me, Sakura loves Naruto and not Sasuke. However, I don't doubt for a second Sakura's confused out of her mind and being around them both is messing with her head. She's very, very close to growing up fully, but she's not quite there yet. I say this because Sakura has always been having these dramatic, anxious, sad shots in this War arc every time Sasuke's around, even in this chapter. It feels like it's more than just being cautious around him; I do believe she still does think she loves him and that's the romantic conflict that's going to be resolved before the manga's end.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 12 May 2014 - 05:17 AM.

[Gojira]

1. Okay, even if chapter 540 is stupid, what you're saying doesn't really make sense. On one hand you're saying that she's not obliged to fall in love with Naruto, and then on the other hand you're saying that chapter 540 is stupid because she's in love with Sasuke instead of Naruto. I think you are contradicting yourself.

You're misunderstood my post again. The scene being stupid has nothing to do her not being obliged to be with anybody. The problem again is the fact that several years of NS moments are rendered entirely pointless when the one she still preferred Sasuke at his worst over Naruto.

On top of that the scene itself was entirely unnecessary it wouldn't have taken away from the plot at all if Kishi just didn't make it, that's why I think its stupid, I think things would have gone perfectly well had the scene not existed at all but since she fell out of love with him anyway as proven by the recent chapter, now 540 is just there as this moment where she still loved Sasuke over Naruto up until the point where....she had to be reminded that he was evil.

[luffyq1]

And before anyone throws the interview at me as Sakura's being honest about loving Naruto, I have this to say. Why are we putting so much weight in an interview? Why would Kishimoto just reveal Sakura loving Naruto instead of keeping up the ambiguity? My issue isn't denying the writer's words. I just feel uncomfortable saying he really said that when interviews aren't always reliable sources. It could've been corrupted by bias translators. I would accept Kishi's words if they're real, but I find it just really bizarre of him. Please tell me I'm the only one who feels like this.

You're not alone. I never took that interview seriously to begin with. Just because someone said it's official I'm suppose to believe it just like that no questions asked? Lol sure.

 

And you're right about that ambiguity part. Over 600 chapters and there's no pair that's been made official, but if we go by what Kishi said, he's basically telling us that NS is guaranteed. Now while I always felt this way based on the manga, for him to come outta the woodwork's and say something like that early in the manga is pretty non-suspenseful and we all know Kishi loves being suspenseful, even if it has to relate to something as insignificant as the romantic subplot. Obito's revelation was a prime example.

Edited by luffyq1, 12 May 2014 - 05:32 AM.

[narusaku256]

Isn't it apparent that Sakura would always prefer Naruto over Sasuke? Even during the confession, all the time, I repeat the whole kittenin time she was thinking about Naruto and Naruto only. The way the confession was portrayed was what made it ambiguous. The environment, the circumstances and everything made the confession ambiguous. But when the author himself states that the confession is true, why can't we take it as true? I am sure if it was Hinata here confessing her love for Naruto, no one would have doubted her but now that Sakura has done it, its ambiguous. Why? Because we still don't know whether she loves Naruto? Is it really hard to believe that Sakura has feelings for Naruto after all the development we have got? That is what the whole purpose of pairing moments is. They convey the development of Sakura in regards with Naruto. The only time during the confession where Naruto seemed to doubt her was when she said 'I don't care about Sasuke anymore', which was false which was evident from 675. Sakura till date is not aware of her feelings. She believes she loves Sasuke, but in reality that's really not the case. Why is it that, when her crush from god knows how many years is infront of her and what she utters is "Sasuke kun" and immediately heads to Kakashi? To make matters even worse(for SS), when Naruto enters the scene, he suddenly becomes the boy she was looking for! She literally left Sasuke out and was all on Naruto! This whole damned war, 90% of the times she had Naruto in her mind. "Won't that harm you?", "I won't let you die, no matter what!", "That stupid dream of yours its right infront of US", "Naruto you do what you have to, leave the rest to us", "I'll make sure Naruto has a full recovery". And what do we get for Sasuke? "Sasuke kun" and "You said you wanted to become Hokage, what's the real meaning behind it?" Kishi wanted to say he portrayed an honest yet stubborn girl. It goes this way:

Honest: Her feelings, her words, her emotions were honest!

Stubborn: She refuses to abandon the one who tried to kill her. Stubborn in the sense that she won't just give up on Sasuke like Naruto like Naruo doesn't give up on him.

Now this goes in line with what Kakashi said lately and the confession being half true and half false meaning she was honest about Naruto but she lied to him about Sasuke. Even if the whole confession is to be considered as fake, NARUTO WAS WHAT SHE HAD IN MIND THE WHOLE TIME! 

 

That girl can stand up against anyone who tries to hurt Naruto. She stood up against none other than Sasuke when he called Naruto a fool for pursuing him! She favoured Naruto and made sure everything was alright for him in this whole war! Naruto and Sasuke were battling out together and whom she seemed to be concerned was Naruto. Only once when they combined the attack was when she asked Hinata "What's the status of both", and the other time when Sasuke saved her from the Juubi clone. I still doubt if she would go with Sasuke even if she knew that Sasuke was on the verge of dying and she had Naruto to deal with. 

 

Now about 540. How will she think about Naruto when she doesn't know what her feelings for him are! Back then she knew she love Sasuke, so when the Iwa nin talked about her loving someone, an image of Sasuke was apparent. But instead she was sad, unhappy and felt ashamed of herself that she loved someone like Sasuke. The fact that she doubted Sasuke's goals in 675 shows that she knows that being the hokage is not what Sasuke really wants! There are some ulteriour motives behind it. And most of all she doesn't trust him! Whereas she literally blindly trusts Naruto. I seriously don't know how to put stuff because nothing seems to reduce the ambiguity. Coming to Sakura's preference, it is Naruto and that's for sure! 

[ramenanmitsu]

You're misunderstood my post again. The scene being stupid has nothing to do her not being obliged to be with anybody. The problem again is the fact that several years of NS moments are rendered entirely pointless when the one she still preferred Sasuke at his worst over Naruto.

On top of that the scene itself was entirely unnecessary it wouldn't have taken away from the plot at all if Kishi just didn't make it, that's why I think its stupid, I think things would have gone perfectly well had the scene not existed at all but since she fell out of love with him anyway as proven by the recent chapter, now 540 is just there as this moment where she still loved Sasuke over Naruto up until the point where....she had to be reminded that he was evil.

Oh okay, if your main point was about chapter 540 only then I have nothing to argue with you since I agree. My only disagreement with you was when you said that Sakura's character went backwards. But it seems like you're not really talking about her character herself but more about the execution of the chapter.

 

Chapter 540 should have been done before the war, NOT 2 days before Kakashi stated Sakura's change of heart. I don't really know the point of the chapter either if Kakashi was going to say she's over Sasuke 2 days later. 

[Gojira]

Regardless chapter 540 was a major kitten-up.....actually looking back it's actually making me start disliking NS...