1040 replies to this topic

[Kster95]

No one here said that, either way canon/not canon is not really the point.

 

 

 

You beat me to it, sushi.  

 

Indeed, the comparison chart and whether or not Sakura is like Kushina was not the point.  Several users here were targeting a specific fan for his bias, which isn't fair or appropriate, in my opinion.  We all have our biases, and bias itself is not a crime.  Even failing to recognize that bias is not a crime.

 

It's much better to demonstrate why a bias is a bias, rather than make fun of someone for having it.  That was the point of my chart.

 

Then why even compare Kushina with them? That was what the original chart was created for. Fine no one said that but it was deeply implied. 

[Dkey]

Thank you.

I should note that this could be 616 for us. Could is the key word. I mean for NH, you got hand holding, only to proceed to do the same to others. This one can be only Naruto and Sakura, only to have Sasuke in the mix. Trying not to scare you guys, but you got to be careful. Karma can strike hard. If you asked me, SS got hit hard by pulling Naruto going elsewhere as Sakura learns about Sasuke and head there alone. That said just be neutral. Then go all "Yes!"....or "No!"

 

 

well even if we don't get a romantic moment between the two of them, we can still see them interact and for me it's pretty fun and exciting to see. I think we fans get to over excited for the small things.

 

 

The reality is, the comparison chart that was presented in the video is biased in several ways.  Not only does it use non-canon "facts" such as cooking skills, but the rest of the items are worded in a particular way so they can be counted in Hinata's favor.  

 

It's extremely simple to remake the chart -- using only canon facts, mind you -- and show that it all counts in Sakura's favor.  To wit:

 

 

As Shikamaru might say, even statistics are troublesome if they are not corrected for bias.

 

There's no reason to stoop to publicly ridiculing a person because of his/her bias when the bias itself can be smashed with something crazy like, you know, facts and stuff.  

 

 

Hilarious, and quite possibly true based on what we've seen in the manga so far.  

 

The thing with using different criteria to compare something is that those criteria might be biased towards either one or the other.

 

The perfect way in which the sakura kushina paralel is valid was having Minato commenting on Sakura that she resembles Kushina.

Edited by Dkey, 01 February 2014 - 09:41 PM.

[sushi.]

Then why even compare Kushina with them? That was what the original chart was created for. Fine no one said that but it was deeply implied. 

Because Kishi did it.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
 
well even if we don't get a romantic moment between the two of them, we can still see them interact and for me it's pretty fun and exciting to see. I think we fans get to over excited for the small things.

I wasn't thinking that but definitely something that really says, "Endgame. Deal with it."

[Kster95]

Because Kishi did it.

 

Lol I know Kishi did it but why are you comparing them if you werent trying to imply it would make NS canon. The charts still serve no purpose to anything since they evaluate  irrelevant things like cooking. 

[Dkey]

I wasn't thinking that but definitely something that really says, "Endgame. Deal with it."

ah you want endgame. Yeah not sure if it will be powerful enough to throw the anti-NSs. I imagine it could be very Sakur->Naruto centric but as usual with Naruto's attention in another place.

[TouKen4Life3g]

ah you want endgame. Yeah not sure if it will be powerful enough to throw the anti-NSs. I imagine it could be very Sakur->Naruto centric but as usual with Naruto's attention in another place.

Don't care. To us, it will be obvious to 100% and not to sound like I am controlling everyone in here, but I expect no more ifs and buts. The plan is set.

[sushi.]

 

Lol I know Kishi did it but why are you comparing them if you werent trying to imply it would make NS canon. The charts still serve no purpose to anything since they evaluate  irrelevant things like cooking. 

Look... I didn't compare them

 

Think of parallels as a guide(, or a warning for antis.) They tell you where the road is going, but they don't make it. Parallels are hints to author's intention, and in that way they are significant. They won't trigger canon however, because the characters are completely unaware of them. It's a secret between the author and the audience! x)

[Kster95]

Look... I didn't compare them

 

Think of parallels as a guide(, or a warning for antis.) They tell you where the road is going, but they don't make it. Parallels are hints to author's intention, and in that way they are significant. They won't trigger canon however, because the characters are completely unaware of them. It's a secret between the author and the audience! x)

 

Ok  Then why are we arguing.....

 

I completely agree. They give a nod as to where kishi is going but add no development to the pairing at all. 

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Parallels are kind of a double-edged sword. You see it exists and is meant to relay the author's intentions, but whatever his attentions are up to the audience's interpretation. For example, there are two possible ways the parallels might have hints to the ending. Naruto will succeed were all his previous parallels failed in romance ( no matter what form it takes) and be with the heroine of the generation or he would let go of the heroine and move on to another since "all the others failed." It depends on your opinion of "succeeding" tbh. One of these will be right, but which?

 

Either way, I don't read into it too seriously. I have a preference for parallels between characters/relationships, but it's more to indulge me then have me say these parallels DEFINITELY MEAN NaruSaku will happen. It could still go both ways, no matter how implausible the second option sounds IMO.

 

I don't think NaruSaku needs parallels to become canon. It's just something else to enjoy, but I mostly see all of their development as proof to their road to canon.

[KnS]

The thing with using different criteria to compare something is that those criteria might be biased towards either one or the other.

 

The perfect way in which the sakura kushina paralel is valid was having Minato commenting on Sakura that she resembles Kushina.

 

First sentence:  Exactly my point.  Like I said, statistics don't mean much if they are not corrected for bias.

 

Second sentence:  I could not agree more, and said something similar a page or two back on this thread.  Minato ought to know.  

 

Because Kishi did it.

 

LOL

 

Lol I know Kishi did it but why are you comparing them if you werent trying to imply it would make NS canon. The charts still serve no purpose to anything since they evaluate  irrelevant things like cooking. 

 

Like I said, the point of the chart I made was to demonstrate how "proof" is often skewed according to bias, and how easy it is to counter another fan's bias without bashing that person. I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

 

Like Dkey and sushi. pointed out, Kishimoto himself created the comparison between Kushina and Sakura through his parallels and most recently through Minato's irrefutable statement that Sakura reminded him of his wife.  Any charts or comparisons made by fans are simply an extension of Kishimoto's purposeful implications.

 

Wow.  If I'd known that stupid post was going to stir up dust I wouldn't have bothered.  

Edited by KnS, 02 February 2014 - 12:34 AM.

[sushi.]

I think what matters more than statistics and number of similarities, is what Kishi points out. He chooses what is significant. Kishi pointed out Sakura's similarities with Kushina, telling us that they were at least not a coincidence. He told us what to focus on, so I don't know why there's a discussion in the first place. Even if Hinata gets more 'points' on her chart, with her long hair and past with Kumo.

Edited by sushi., 02 February 2014 - 12:50 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Not that I'm fed or anything, but I'll say this once again. We're not that reliance on parallels to make it canon. They're only for us to understand and not the characters themselves to make it work due to parallel. Like if Sakura learns about Kushina and how she is similar to her, she will force herself to love Naruto because well why not. We don't need that. We got a genuine developments to fill in and that's all it need.

[Hanabi]

with her long hair and past with Kumo.

Which chapter did she get kidnapped by kumogakure?

Edited by Hanabi, 02 February 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[Chatte]

Which chapter did she get kidnapped by kumogakure?

Idk the chapter but it was when Neji explains why his father died, because he sacrificed himself for the Hyuga so that they won't start a war given that Kumo had kidnapped Hinata and when the Hyugas took her back, they had killed some Kumo ninjas so Kumo asked instead a dead Hyuga so that they'd still be able to have the Byakugan and study it.
However, given that he had the cursed mark seal, Hizashi or whatever the name, sacrificed himself for Hyugas.

[KnS]

Which chapter did she get kidnapped by kumogakure?

 

Everything Chatte mentioned is in #102.

[Otaru]

I think what matters more than statistics and number of similarities, is what Kishi points out. He chooses what is significant. Kishi pointed out Sakura's similarities with Kushina, telling us that they were at least not a coincidence. He told us what to focus on, so I don't know why there's a discussion in the first place. Even if Hinata gets more 'points' on her chart, with her long hair and past with Kumo.

 

Let's be honest here... if Kishi had done the same with Hinata, all NaruHina fans would be celebrating because of what Minato said. But Kishi made Minato say SAKURA is like Kushina. lol

So... Now Minato is not relevant !

That's the power of NaruHina's fans lol

Edited by Otaru, 03 February 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[Kster95]

 

Let's be honest here... if Kishi had done the same with Hinata, all NaruHina fans would be celebrating because of what Minato said. But Kishi made Minato say SAKURA is like Kushina. lol

So... Now Minato is not relevant !

That's the power of NaruHina's fans lol

 

Its a complete double standard, had Kushina said " Dont find someone like me, find a quiet girl" they would completely use that to prove Naruhina. And the fact that a chart was made  trying to show Hinata similar to Kushina only shows what Kushina said is very important. 

[六道仙人]

I've just read an interesting theory on NF. Kurama may have told Gaara to bring Naruto where there's the Hagoromo's shrine. That's because the Rikudou Sennin had been the first Jinchuuriki of the shinobi story. Hagoromo released the Juubi from his own body and divided it into 9 bijuu. The point is: How Hagoromo did survive immediately from the extraction of the Juubi and then made that division into 9 parts? That could be the answer to Naruto's survival. Besides Naruto is the Senju part, the one who has a vigorous body, just as said Obito to Kakashi about the Senju and Uchiha brothers' fairytale

On the other side, Sasuke could just awaken the rinnegan, the eye power that belongs to Uchiha lineage. Madara also said to Kabuto that he was able to awaken the Rinnegan just before his death.

Naruto=body/Senju
Sasuke=eyes/Uchiha

[Hiraishin]

Yeah, I've heard that theory, too, that Gaara is headed to the Rikudo's shrine, or just somewhere associated with him... That seems most plausible to me right now. I guess it's conveniently somewhat nearby haha.