1196 replies to this topic

[Gravenimage]

Lol and lol.

[ns.Believe.It]

I...personally think that its not fair to call Naruto as a guy not born with talent and succeeds only by hardwork! Sure he was an underdog, sure he lacked skill then...but have you ever given a thought about Naruto's childhood? Sasuke had ITACHI as his brother. Its apparent they atleast trained together sometimes and Sasuke would atleast try to match his brother thus improving himself in that process! And seeing that it was Itachi....I need not explain how strong Sasuke would get in the process of surpassing his elder brother

Neji was born as a Hyuuga! His father trained him! And seeing how strict the Hyuugas are, its apparent for Neji to be strong as well. Everyone except Sakura and Naruto(for the time being) belonged to a reputed clan and had each of their clan's specialities. Sakura had a simple family background and yet she has managed to come this far and is said to have strength even stronger than Tsunade's said by Hashirama himself! She might have surpassed Tsunade, one of the legendary Sanin as well. And considering that she was born in a simple family without any bloodline ability, this feat that she has achieved is quite extraordinary! Now Naruto, though this guy belonged to the prestigious Uzumaki clan, his childhood was total crap. He literally had no one! Jiraiya was on a mission to spy on Akatsuki and only met him when he was 12. Uptil then....all that Naruto learnt was by himself! And in that condition, facing someone as strong as Zabuza and even defeating him, is quite applausible! Did you see how quick Naruto progressed when Jiraiya took over him? At times, he managed to surprise Jiraiya himself! All this requires talent man! Its unfair to call Naruto an underdog! You can call it unexploited talent but NOT underdog because underdog literally means having no talent! He even learnt making Rasenshuriken pretty quickly when Kakashi himself stated that even for an experienced ninja, mastering nature transformation can take as long as ten years or even more and its no guarantee that he'd learn it after that! And Naruto mastered that in what? Like....in a couple of days? Not even Minato or Kakashi or even Jiraiya for that matter couldn't do it! Hell Kakashi was also shocked when he first saw Naruto using normal Rasengan! Jiraiya trained for years and yet he could not master senjutsu fully and again Naruto accomplished it in days! All this requires a lot of talent goddamit! Its really unfair to call Naruto an underdog! You call it unexploited talent but NOT underdog!

Erm.. Its not me who is saying Naruto was an underdog in most of part 1. Kishi wrote the story this way. That's how Naruto was seen by all- a no talent loser. He was a constant second fiddle to Sasuke and in the Chuunin exams not many believed he would beat Kiba and later Neji. Nobody believed in his abilities but slowly, Naruto changed this opinion of everyone.

[Chatte]

Not only that, but iirc wasn't she afraid of blood at the time?

Yes she was. Plus, Kabuto was using Hyorougan to enhance all of his senses...

[Atheck]

I dunno whether Sakura would beat Hiashi or not but....there's one more factor to consider! That's experience! It is the unspoken truth that Hiashi has way more experience than Sakura or even Naruto for that matter! If you base of Naruto on pure raw strength as someone against Hiashi, even Naruto would have hard time defeating him. He will! But its going to be difficult for him! But ofcourse, this is valid when we only take Taijutsu under consideration! If we add Ninjutsu to the comparison, Naruto would beat Hiashi. Even so, not easily, but with considerably less effort as against Taijutsu on Taijutsu!

Sakura vs Hiashi....is a tough one! But...I do think Sakura would win this one if she has her Byakugou since Hiashi would hit her chakra gate and she'd instantly heal it! She is smart enough and can land a powerful blow on Hiashi which can go in for a KO. But ofcourse if Hiashi let's her! Not that she can't, she can but she would require a flawless strategy which heavily includes the use of diversions to conquer Hiashi's Kaiten AND then hitting him with a lethal punch which she can generate pretty easily! The main obstacles are Hiashi's experience and his Kaiten! Conquer those and the battle belongs to Sakura! But unfortunately, they are hard to conquer! Its a tough one...really!

It's not just experience, it's having the talent and physical skills necessary so you don't look like a helpless rookie from the academy who can't even protect themselves.

Exceptional strength has never been a staple of Naruto's. He has other talents that help to compensate for his shortcomings in physical power. In any event, Hiashi would certainly have his hands full against base Naruto. Without the acuity or reflexes of his senjutsu and jinchuuriki forms, Naruto should be at a disadvantage since his opponent wields the means necessary to invalidate his clones and he needs to come within striking range to use his FRS since the technique appears to be usable as a projectile only in SM and KCM. Do I believe that Naruto could win? Certainly, but it wouldn't be easy and I could see Hiashi winning more often than not. It's better than Sakura's odds though. Naruto's base form has shown more impressive taijutsu feats than Sakura has by being able to parry Chiyo's attacks (who has a 4.5 in that area) and when he was stalling God Realm for the toad sages.

 

If Sakura wins this then she's going to have to play to her strengths which is surviving as long as she can - like Hiraishin said - while attempting to catch her opponent in a whirlwind of debris and ruin with her punches.
 

Quite oddly....I can say with guarantee that Tsunade would beat Hiashi fair and square! Hiashi's experience pales infront of Tsunade's!

It's debatable if Tsunade could succeed. They both would be considered taijutsu masters but Hiashi has the advantage in terms of speed. She's a bit more refined in her abilities than her disciple, but I've seen superior technique and discipline from Lee, who was having difficulties with Neji. Her best course of action might be to avoid having her tenketsu sealed while exhausting her opponent in a battle of attrition.
 

Heh, I don't think its fair to take the Chuunin exam as an example. It was a long time ago and back then Naruto and Sakura were just very young rookies.

This might be accurate in regards to Naruto, but Sakura hasn't shown any on-panel improvement in her martial arts training to make me believe that she would bear any chance of successfully outperforming or countering the sort of intricate taijutsu movements that someone as competent as Neji or Hiashi is capable of.
 

I really believe Neji was made to look awesome in the beginning stages of their fight just to highlight Naruto's underdog status then. Do you remember Neji taunting Naruto about destinies and how a loser like Naruto could never beat someone who was born with gifts of skill? That matchup was pretty much Neji( the naturally gifted and sheer genius) vs Naruto( the underdog considered as a loser).
 
Naruto's strongest jutsu, the shadow clone was made to look like no-match to Neji's skills initially just to show how much of a mismatch it seemed. But then finally Naruto ended up beating Neji by a shadow clone jutsu. This was used to highlight Naruto's 'never give up' ninja way and that even the ones who are not born talented can beat the genius by sheer hard work and dedication.

Does it really matter what their respective statuses or motivations were at the time?That victory wasn't achieved because Naruto had a superior fighting style or because Neji was outperformed in the shinobi discipline we're discussing.  It was brought about by a combination of his bijuu's power (which allowed him to equal Neji's swift movements and the intensity of his Kaiten), the weariness brought on by the damages suffered when their chakras negated each other, and through the good fortune of Neji's arrogance compelling him to deactivate his Byakugan so he couldn't discern that the real Naruto was tunneling through the ground to get to where he was standing. The reason for Naruto's success back then boils down to one thing: Kurama. 

 

He could dream and bellow about his ideological rhetoric all day if he wanted to, but it wasn't going to magically materialise a win for him - not without the necessary tools to help him escape the corner he was put in at the time. Similar tools could help Sakura to succeed in a fight as well, but it won't be achieved through any real competency in CQC.

Edited by Atheck, 03 September 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[Hiraishin]

Not only that, but iirc wasn't she afraid of blood at the time?

Yeah. So she hadn't fought in years, on top of not having slept in days and having a fear of blood. She did well for that. Though she did admit that Kabuto's senses and sharpness at that time may have exceeded even her own in her prime.. although, could they have been heightened by the soldier pill he took? Not sure if they enhance that stuff as well.

Edited by Hiraishin, 03 September 2014 - 06:36 PM.

[ns.Believe.It]

This might be accurate in regards to Naruto, but Sakura hasn't shown any on-panel improvement in her martial arts training to make me believe that she would bear any chance of successfully outperforming or countering the sort of intricate taijutsu movements that someone as competent as Neji or Hiashi is capable of.

What?! Sakura is an excellent medical ninja. The most important thing for a medical ninja is being able to dodge attacks- Tsunade's words. We saw this in Sakura's fight against Sasori. She is exceptional in evasive moves.

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 03 September 2014 - 06:01 PM.

[elmas]

Why are we talking about Sakura's medic ID?This is a bit off topic ...

[Khaleesi]

Guys Sakura is not a fighter. She's a healer. If she went up against a jonin level combat specialist she would be defeated. Just remember back to when Tsunade fought against Kabuto. Medics don't last long in direct confrontation.

She hadn't sleept indays and she was scared of blood. Even in that state, she changed when she used her Byakugo.

[LadyGT]

I see people commenting on FB saying that it was announced on the last preview SJ page (the one Chatte posted) that Naruto has 10 chapters left. Is it true?

[Atheck]

What?! Sakura is an excellent medical ninja. The most important thing for a medical ninja is being able to dodge attacks- Tsunade's words. We saw this in Sakura's fight against Sasori. She is exceptional in evasive moves.

 

She also admitted that making split-second decisions isn't a strength of hers. If you give Sakura the time to properly analyse the attack patterns of her opponent, she can eventually learn to avoid it. But throw her in front of an unexpected and unrecognisable development and she easily falls apart. When you're locked in combat with an opponent who is constantly in motion - navigating their arms, legs and various other extremities of the body to defend themselves in the most fluid and precise manner possible - you need to be quick-witted and diversely capable of using every part of yourself to succeed. I don't care about what her medical background entails because that isn't the point of this. I'm not trying to dispute that Sakura is incapable of healing herself, I know she can. I'm questioning her ability to defend and attack when faced with someone who is genuinely competent at taijutsu. 

[elmas]

I see people commenting on FB saying that it was announced on the last preview SJ page (the one Chatte posted) that Naruto has 10 chapters left. Is it true?

六道仙人 

"and that preview page from WSJ was from the previous issue and there's no naruto preview. and wsj cover is a special release regarding sport manga included in this magazine."

He explained it

[LadyGT]

六道仙人 
"and that preview page from WSJ was from the previous issue and there's no naruto preview. and wsj cover is a special release regarding sport manga included in this magazine."
He explained it

I know, the thing is that they were referring to a little box where it lists also Toriko. I can't see the kanji clearly so I can't make out what it says.

Edited by LadyGT, 03 September 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[elmas]

I know, the thing is that they were referring to a little box where it lists also Toriko. I can't see the kanji crearly so I can't make out what it says.

I'm sorry but I can't read Japanese and I can't see too.But someone can translate it.

[LuckyChi7]

六道仙人 
"and that preview page from WSJ was from the previous issue and there's no naruto preview. and wsj cover is a special release regarding sport manga included in this magazine."
He explained it

Hew that's a releif with what we have left. It should be enough to cover for the next (final) arc.

[Khaleesi]

@LadyGT can you go to the NS debate thread and translate what  questdrivencollie posted? please? :c

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well I'll say this. Ever since last week, the idea of Naruto coming to a close (or part 3) has been spreading, so it's like a rumor that hasn't been answered.

[narusaku256]

What?! Sakura is an excellent medical ninja. The most important thing for a medical ninja is being able to dodge attacks- Tsunade's words. We saw this in Sakura's fight against Sasori. She is exceptional in evasive moves.

I...I do think Atheck is right when he is indirectly saying that Sakura would have a difficulty to defeat an unpredictable opponent who changes his fighting style, strategy and patterns every single time!

But on the other hand, we have to consider this factor as well that we have not seen Sakura fight as such! The only time we saw her fight for real is in Part 1 when they were rookies and in the beginning of Part 2! Its really difficult to judge the winner of this fight especially when we have both the characters who have not been portrayed as fighting as much! The only thing we can do is...build estimations!

Edited by narusaku256, 03 September 2014 - 06:41 PM.

[Khaleesi]

@narusaku256

why do you write like this! when i read what you said it always end up with an acent! it's kind of weird! but you sound like a kind person! i don't know why!

[六道仙人]

@ladygt

 

sorry but there's nothing in that preview page... that Naruto in the list, alongside Toriko etc, is just an advertisement... it is always been so since years...

[LadyGT]

@ladygt
 
sorry but there's nothing in that preview page... that Naruto in the list, alongside Toriko etc, is just an advertisement... it is always been so since years...

Thanks man, I just wanted to make sure :)