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Naruto chapter 474 spoilers


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#81 Nick Soapdish

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:05 PM

QUOTE (dl316bh @ Dec 1 2009, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The simple answer is drama. It keeps folks reading. You want to know how it's resolved. This is a chief reason I still even read the manga. I'm interested enough in the layered relationship of Naruto and Sakura - one that's grown satisfactorily over the course of the series - that I'm still reading and/or keeping up on a manga I would have otherwise given up on a long time ago.

Also, it mirrors real life rather well. Rarely are relationships straightforward in regards to the path to hooking up. Often it's as drama filled and wrought with tension as anything else in life. Pretty realistic and interesting to me.


Right.

And it's not like she can choose which one to have feelings for or to stop having feelings for one. All she can choose is whether or not to act on those feelings and what she had been doing is being very careful. I'm not quite sure that her current course of action can still be described as that because she seems to have taken the opposite tack.

#82 kawarimi

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:20 PM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Dec 1 2009, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Totally wrong, kiddo. I had two years of formal study in Japanese at my university, taught by a native born Japanese speaker. My knowledge of kanji is only on a second grade level, but I know enough Japanese to pick up when something looks off quite well, thank you, and those lines did, even in the original Japanese, the translation even more so.

It was also rather odd that unlike the other lines of the spoiler it was not directly attributed to any character. And I know from way too much experience that the spoilers always ignore or minimize any narusaku positive things, and overplay any sasusaku or naruhina "hints". None of the spoiler providers that actually have the manga on 2chan are neutral much less narusaku or even moreso none even tolerate Sakura unless it's in connection to Sasuke. (Some of the fake spoiler people are are pronarusaku nowadays though, heh, heard a few fun ones since 450...)

Remember how overly negative the spoilers for 469 were compared to what was there, remember how much they minimized Sakura's romantic embrace of Naruto in front of the whole village in 450., etc...


My apologies, I thought I remembered you saying at some point that you taught yourself, but I do remember you repeatedly saying you only have a basic understanding, which mistakes I would see in your translations confirmed a limited understanding.

However, please feel free to explain how and where Sho was inaccurate, because I already pointed out that he translated all the "love" phrases as written, whereas you took one phrase that was written in past and claimed it should be applied to each instance even though they were written in present tense.

Here's the original line and Sho's translation, please point out where both of us are wrong and you know better. And even if you are right (which you aren't here because it is written in present tense, except for the third phrase which Sho did translate in past tense, but it means the feelings originated in the past, not that they're *only* in the past), it's still not polite to bash others rather than offer corrections and constructive criticisms without being disrespectful.

QUOTE (Askia31 @ Dec 1 2009, 05:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
サスケの事が大好きだからこそこのまま悪へ突き進むサスケを放っておけず、それがたとえ大好きな人を自分の 手で殺めなければならない事になるとしてもそれがサスケを好きになったサクラなりの覚悟という もの

It's because she loves Sasuke that she can't just leave him pursuing his evil ends like this; even if it turns out that she has to kill a person she loves with her own hands, Sasuke whom she had fallen in love with, that is what Sakura is ready to do


Edit: If you want to question the spoiler itself, who knows until we get panels. I'm only commenting on your comments that it was translated badly and that you believe it is all written in past tense when it isn't.

Edited by kawarimi, 01 December 2009 - 10:31 PM.


#83 Freakazoid

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:22 PM

Reading that spoiler again just makes me rofl at how many times the word love is used. It's like whoever is saying is attempting to convince themself that it's true somehow.

#84 Merger Knight

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:29 PM

QUOTE (Cloud @ Dec 1 2009, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How? So far it's been strictly linear. We're not exactly talking about writing a Shakespearean play here. Everything written so far has been plotted by Kishi and is following a straight path.


I just wonder if he had the ending in his mind when he started 10 years ago or if he writes as he goes on?

#85 socermania2

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:35 PM

I wonder how ppl didnt see this coming?

Before we can know for sure whether Sakura loves Naruto or not, or Sasuke or not, she needs to confront both of them.

I wouldn't have it any other way. The manga has started its final draw, and its going to end up quite nicely.
(Though if he wants to surpass Toriyama, he has about a year to go..)
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#86 Mugen no Neko

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 11:27 PM

QUOTE (socermania2 @ Dec 1 2009, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder how ppl didnt see this coming?

Before we can know for sure whether Sakura loves Naruto or not, or Sasuke or not, she needs to confront both of them.

I wouldn't have it any other way. The manga has started its final draw, and its going to end up quite nicely.
(Though if he wants to surpass Toriyama, he has about a year to go..)


Toriyama? wow.png Who's dat?

Yeah, a confrontation between Sakura and Sasuke would probably be a good bit of character development... Naruto as well.

Ahh, I see Sakura getting to where Sasuke is, well albiet not inside Madara's head!! But actually killing him? Somehow, I feel that Sakura could never do that even with help, simply because she lacks the emotional hardiness... or something to kill a close friend/ex teammate/love interest arg.gif

I could see Sasuke holding that over her head. Really, though that might be OOC like wow. Stupid idiot Sasuke, you stupid idiot arg.gif
meh.

#87 socermania2

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 11:32 PM

Toriyama wrote DragonBall.

And I always believed, since Part 2, that this meeting is necessary for this pairing to work.
Im still pretty confident in our pairing danarusakunp3.gif
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#88 Shadow-kun

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:04 AM

I have no fears about NaruSaku being the end pairing, this is just part of the show! biggrin.gif
I'm more interested in the Danzo vs Madara Sharingan hax fight that might happen.

Edited by Shadow-kun, 02 December 2009 - 12:07 AM.


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#89 ciardha

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:11 AM

QUOTE (Nick Soapdish @ Dec 1 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe that she studied it in college and spent a year there.


Two years in college yes, but no never have had that wonderful opportunity to stay there- if I could and someone could take care of my house and I could take a year sabbatical from my work as a librarian, I'd love it! I have a great love for Japanese history and culture and have studied it since I was around 8 or 9 years old, tackling Tale of Genji at 14 (in English translation, of course)- my all time favorite poet is even a classic Japanese poet- and said by the Japanese to be amongst their greatest poets- Ono no Komachi. I love her poetry in the original Japanese.

It was written in all hiragana (called "women's script" at that time because the men were still following Chinese style and writing in kanji, where because women had only limited education in Chinese literature and writing, they developed and wrote in hiragana, the script that eventually would come to be used for word tenses, subject and object markers, etc... )

Most later Japanese literary critics call the men's poetry of the Heian period inferior to the women's because the men were writing stuff that was too derivative of Chinese poetry, where the women were developing native Japanese poetry in hiragana with multiple meanings, puns and other word play, etc...

Women of the Heian period were mocked by men if they studied Chinese literature in the original Chinese enthusiastically- to use a western word they were essentially called "bluestockings" for doing so. Even in Murasaki Shikabu's day this happened- being a self-taught Chinese literature scholar she was often teased by the men at court. )

Komachi lived an independent life (a bit less than 200 years before Murasaki Shikabu) and won poetry challenges against men. It's believed the story about her dying an ugly old beggar woman was complete myth- she was a noblewoman and her skills as poet too highly regarded. From what little we know about her personal life it sounds like her life was comfortable even as she grew older. I learned Japanese not only to learn to read manga in the original Japanese but also poetry, especially Komachi's. It loses a little something even in a good translation like Atsumi's and Rexroth's. It's like reading the Canterbury Tales in modern English vs hearing it spoken aloud in the original Middle English.

Heh, just meant to clear up the info about me, but get me started on Japanese history or culture and it's hard to draw to a close. It's one of my favorite subjects to talk about... wink.gif

Edited by ciardha, 02 December 2009 - 12:44 AM.

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#90 Mik3

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:28 AM

So Kakashi and Co. are trying to explain Naruto why shes doing it and that he should as well. She's willing to stop him even at the cost of killing him, even though she cares about him. Naruto should follow suit I suppose.
\

#91 ciardha

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:34 AM

QUOTE (Mik3 @ Dec 1 2009, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So Kakashi and Co. are trying to explain Naruto why shes doing it and that he should as well. She's willing to stop him even at the cost of killing him, even though she cares about him. Naruto should follow suit I suppose.


From what little we can glean from the spoiler, yeah, sounds that way.
Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971

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Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009

#92 catsi563

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:41 AM

QUOTE (dl316bh @ Dec 1 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I doubt that. Naruto's barely even paid attention to Hinata. He basically even ignored her confession. She's not even on his radar. She's just there; he's important to her but in his world she's basically off planet.


I didnt say he would. As I stated Its what I believe that Sakura is or may be thinking.

the concept is that she is sacraficing her potential happiness with Naruto by taking away his closest bond in order to protect him.

thus in her mind logicaly Naruto will hate her for this perceived betrayal and turn to the person who has confessed. IE hinata.

Contextually this is the sacrafice she ifeels she is making. as she sees it.


or at least I beleive it to be so.
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#93 Mik3

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:44 AM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Dec 1 2009, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what little we can glean from the spoiler, yeah, sounds that way.


Ok, good. Sorry if i was stating the obvious but I got to these spoilers late, and my friend texted me all about Sakura still being in love with sasuke or something. Didn't really panic, because he is one of those friends who spins everything.
\

#94 dl316bh

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:49 AM

QUOTE (catsi563 @ Dec 1 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didnt say he would. As I stated Its what I believe that Sakura is or may be thinking.

the concept is that she is sacraficing her potential happiness with Naruto by taking away his closest bond in order to protect him.

thus in her mind logicaly Naruto will hate her for this perceived betrayal and turn to the person who has confessed. IE hinata.

Contextually this is the sacrafice she ifeels she is making. as she sees it.


or at least I beleive it to be so.

Maybe. I'm not convinced Hinata would even be a thought though, but you may well be on to something in regards to Sakura's general thought process.

Edited by dl316bh, 02 December 2009 - 12:49 AM.

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#95 ciardha

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:49 AM

QUOTE (catsi563 @ Dec 1 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didnt say he would. As I stated Its what I believe that Sakura is or may be thinking.

the concept is that she is sacraficing her potential happiness with Naruto by taking away his closest bond in order to protect him.

thus in her mind logicaly Naruto will hate her for this perceived betrayal and turn to the person who has confessed. IE hinata.

Contextually this is the sacrafice she ifeels she is making. as she sees it.


or at least I beleive it to be so.


It's possible. I definitely see her acting like Tsunade- when she went to take out Orochimaru on her own, wanting to protect others she loved and had come to love, even at the risk of her death. Tsunade didn't tell Shizune or Jiraiya (or Naruto) that she had no intention of healing Orochimaru's arms but killing him. She thought she'd made sure they wouldn't follow her either.

Sakura is actually thinking it through better than Tsunade did, she's not going alone. The people she's with are even more on board with killing Sasuke than she is. Lee, from his body language after the vote may have had mixed feelings, but still voted for killing Sasuke. We know how Sai feels by what he said to Sakura in 458. Kiba is totally for killing Sasuke. She actually has a good range in opinions amongst her team. But while I think they'll put up a good fight, maybe even fighting to a draw, I don't think they'll win. I don't think they'll be killed either though.

It's good Naruto heard those words from Gaara, it directly takes on Naruto's biggest argument- that he he's not worthy of becoming Hokage if he doesn't keep trying to save Sasuke. From what it sounds like in the spoiler Gaara tells him- if you really want to become Hokage you have to make the choice to kill Sasuke to save everyone else. Part of being a leader is doing something like that. The 3rd let Orochimaru get away and cause more deaths and create more strife in the ninja world, eventually leading to the 3rd's death, because he let his feelings for his former student hold him back from what he should have done.

Edited by ciardha, 02 December 2009 - 01:09 AM.

Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971

When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono

Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009

#96 AnimeLeader

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:52 AM

Agreed, besides this is Sakura's grow up arc remember that. Let the other fan pairing bases celebrate for now...its a shounen not a shoujo remember.

#97 AchikaMiyu

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:06 AM

Whether the translation/spoiler is accurate or not, I really want to see Sakura fight Sasuke. The main focus has always been Naruto vs. Sasuke, why can't Sakura be the one to fight him? Besides, we haven't seen Sakura in an epic fight since Sasori.
End of line.

#98 dl316bh

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:10 AM

QUOTE (AchikaMiyu @ Dec 1 2009, 08:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The main focus has always been Naruto vs. Sasuke, why can't Sakura be the one to fight him?

Depends on what you're looking for. A psychological battle or witwise, Sakura could likely beat him. As far as a straight up physical fight, however, she may well not be able to take him. She'd last longer than most, but I don't think she could beat him.

Edited by dl316bh, 02 December 2009 - 01:12 AM.

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#99 ciardha

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:14 AM

QUOTE (AchikaMiyu @ Dec 1 2009, 08:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whether the translation/spoiler is accurate or not, I really want to see Sakura fight Sasuke. The main focus has always been Naruto vs. Sasuke, why can't Sakura be the one to fight him? Besides, we haven't seen Sakura in an epic fight since Sasori.


Agreed, her one shot kill of the giant centipede during the Pain invasion just made me want to see her in a major fight that much more. I've been itching for Sakura to punch Sasuke into next week since she missed that chance in the Grass Country arc. I want to see Sakura trash Sasuke the way Tsunade did Orochimaru in the animated version of the Sanin fight. (Rather than swing him around by the tongue like Tsunade did Orochimaru, grab that oversized bow and swing Sasuke around till he pukes, heh, then punch him out, hogtie him and take him to Naruto, dumping him at Naruto's feet, and telling Naruto to have at saving Sasuke.)

Edited by ciardha, 02 December 2009 - 01:18 AM.

Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971

When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono

Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009

#100 socermania2

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:19 AM

Two things:
1. Sakura might fight Sasuke, and Naruto might intervene.
2. If Kakashi and co. are the ones that said Sakura likes Sasuke, we should be jumping, cause Naruto might be in for a BIG suprise.
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