Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:50 AM
This fandom laughed and spent time arguing that Sakura wasn't the domestic abuser that NH fans claimed she was. Now it's time to play the violence straight?
Well, this fandom spent time arguing that Sakura has grown out of 12 y.o. state of mind, jokes on us 
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:58 AM
An equally interesting question, I'd say, would be what if Sasuke had killed Naruto. Would Sakura still love Sasuke? I think she would if it's the Sakura of chapter 693. And were Sasuke to even give her the slightest indication of acceptance despite what he had done, she would jump at the chance.
Lol given what Sakura has shown, she wouldn't hesitate. She'd step over his corpse like Hinata did Neji and wouldn't give it a second thought. After all the things Sasuke did to her, and on top of him threatening to kill and enslave all of her friends, family, etc, she still asked to go with him on his journey. She wouldn't hesitate in the slightest, and it's sad as hell XD
What I mean by that is how they handle a majoir character dying. Can I put Harry Potter Spoilers? I mean it has been a while. Look at the way Snape killed Dumbledore compared to Sasuke's attempt at killing Sakura and Naruto's reaction.
After Snap killed Dumbledore, Harry was pissed. Pissed enough that he wanted to kill Snape so badly. Harry was like this when anybody he loved was killed. He had to fight against the emotions that killing is wrong even if justified. That the law should be the means to persecute. (Although, I think having your souls sucked out and eaten is a far worse than death, but this is a different story.)
Then JK Rowling wrote Snapes story that is probably the most tragic and far better than Sasuke's story of revenge. "Always." Snape was actually a good guy. but very few knew this. People thought he was a hard ass, but it was only because he secluded himself from the rest. I would go so far to say that Rowling had more love and thought into Snape than Kishimoto did with Sasuke. In the end, Snape revealed his true self and you realize that everything that occured was a master plan by Dumbledore himself. I could even argue Snape was better than Dumbledore in terms of caring for Harry, but again that is a different story.
Yeah, I'm going to have to hard pass on this, especially that bit at the end.
Firstly, Snape's backstory was not well written, it was sure as hell not tragic, and be absolutely no means was Snape "actually a good guy". Snape was an absolute horrible person, and for some reason he seems to get a ridiculous pass from a large portion of that fanbase, and it's embarrassing. You could argue that Snape was better at caring for Harry than Dumbledore, but that would be an absolute and total lie. The fact that anyone would try to make that argument when Snape did nothing but torment Harry, an innocent child, all the while knowing that he was the reason Harry was orphaned is absurd. As it relates to "always", that is the most ridiculous scene and the absolute dumbest way, other than what Kishi wrote, that I've ever seen an author try to excuse the transgressions of an evil character. Snape "loved" Lily" always, but was perfectly content sentencing her husband and son to death. Snape "loved" Lily" always, but was perfectly content to bully and torment her innocent child for years on end simply because he looked like his father.
Snape was a terrible character, and Rowling's attempt to make him good and excuse his past transgressions was laughable, and its sad that the fanbase ate that kitten up.
Bringing Sasuke back to the village wasn't his responsibility either and yet he did it anyway....despite how bad Sasuke treated him. I would argue that Sasuke and Naruto being best friends shouldn't even exist because they bonded over nothing. Naruto saw Sasuke as his rival and all of a sudden "We are best friends." How did they become best friends? I don't know about you, but my relationship with my best friend doesn't involve trying to kill them because "they remind me of being weak." Goku and Vegeta feel more like best friends than Sasuke and Naruto.
Sasuke: "I am going to kill you, Naruto."
Naruto: "Awwww, I love you too, Sasuke."
Sakura: "I love you, Naruto."
Naruto: "You're full of kitten, Sakura."
I don't know who is more insane...Naruto or Sasuke.
Naruto and Sakura had a far better relationship than Sasuke had with anyone and they had more connections, but Naruto was willing to throw everything away, including the village, just to bring him back. For what? Nothing. Naruto is a dude that said "How can I be hokage and confess my feelings to a girl when I can't even keep my promises?" Really, Naruto? You barely know the guy.
So yeah, I can't accept that as an argument. Sorry.
This reminds of the kitten reasoning in Dark Knight Rises. "I knew you were the Batman when you gave me that look."
Naruto: "We are best friends because Sasuke gave me that look: Not the 'I want to have sex with you look,' but the 'Hey man, we're both orphans' look. He gave me that wink and I knew we were best friends."
And here I thought best friends were people that loved and cared about each other and helped each other out when times got rough and you know....actually being friendly? It would explain alot though. In the Narutoverse, wanting to murder you is a sign of love and confessing your love for you means "I hate you. Go away."
So that's what I have been doing wrong all these years.....*sarcasm*
You're comparing a situation where somebody's friend was literally going to die to that same friend being obligated to pay all of another friends bills. The two aren't even remotely similar. I believe that Naruto's friendship with Sasuke was incredibly and criminally fabricated and terribly written, but it doesn't compare to what you're implying with Sakura. Sakura is a damn adult. It isn't Naruto's responsibility to pay all of her bills or take care of her.
Instead you're arguing she needs anger management classes. I don't remember this fandom worrying about that when she decked Naruto for something Sai said. This fandom laughed and spent time arguing that Sakura wasn't the domestic abuser that NH fans claimed she was. Now it's time to play the violence straight?
A complete non-sequitur, they're not similar occurrences. Sakura hitting Naruto was a gag (although overused) and was only used in those specific situations. Sakura destroying her house was to scare Salad into shutting her mouth because she didn't like the questions that Salad was asking. The only part of that scene that was supposed to be funny (but failed miserably) was her reaction to the house falling. Her actions towards Salad were of the kind that indicates abuse. Normally, I'd probably agree with you, but not here.
She did in the fact that (And this is put solely on 699) her love matured. 699 is different from past actions in that Sakura is pretty much asking to be with Sasuke as a partner. Sasuke then pretty much responds "not now, but when I return".
No, she didn't mature. Not at all. There was nothing that was shown whenever Sasuke was around that showed she had matured i regards to her feelings. She was nothing more than a 12 year old fangirl in a 17 year old's body.
"I am the One-Eyed King."
Illustrious Tap Dancer
Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:59 PM
Yes, she is supposed to be happy. Yes Sasuke, Naruto, and Hinata are as well. I don't think its disputable that this is what they are trying to show. Whether the author is effective in show it they should be or whether they should be or it makes sense? Maybe you don't think so or aren't doing a good job, but I don't think you can dispute what the intent is...yes, they are supposed to be by and large happy couples.
Perhaps in most mangas, but when you've got an author who is willing to walk back on his own statements and chalk up years of character development as mere misdirection, the intent is certainly disputable. I'd like to think he would not be foolhardy enough to take Sasuke, Naruto and Hinata in that direction despite what has already been established, but I've been wrong before. 
For an author who hasn't been all that subtle, I'm supposed to looked at the end of Gaiden and take away that she's secretly unhappy despite the ending.
If we're to give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume that he hasn't simply done a terrible job at fleshing out Sakura as a character, then sure. I'm fine with either/or. Same goes with the premise of this thread really. In all likelihood, Kishimoto would never allow this kind of situation to arise in the first place, but given the lackluster writing he had established at this point and the remainder of the manga, we are working from the standpoint of what we've been presented with and reaching the logical conclusions that would actually follow as a result.
Edited by ThroughWithLove, 26 October 2017 - 04:59 PM.
Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!
Keeping the promise
Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:08 PM
If you think this, then you have no idea. I've seen plenty of things like this in my line of work.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:15 PM
That would go against Sakura's morality on the first part. If Sasuke won, it would be doomsday, practically. Sasuke would have no hope of being saved from his darkness, and it would just be a tragedy all around. Which is of course why it didn't happen that way.
Pretty harsh on the J.K. Rowling stuff. While its personal view and all, and I don't see a need to debate something off-topic, you seem very unforgiving. Simply on my view, people try to color things black and white too much, when Snape is probably better in that grey area, regardless of which spectrum he leans towards.
On the Sakura bit, she accidentally destroyed her house. It wasn't intended to scare, it was Sakura's frustration, which is why she becomes apologetic afterwards. It's not a non-sequiter, because if you're ignoring tropes, brushing off the humor for one, you might as well do so for the other.
And she did mature. Her feelings grew from a crush based on superficial things to a deep, enduring love. Being blushy and shy when you are about to make a romantic initiation is quite normal and expected.
No, it actually wouldn't, given that she displayed as much with the ending. She wouldn't have given it much thought if any at all had Sasuke killed Naruto, whether at LOI or EOS. She didn't care.
No, I am not unforgiving. I'm forgiving to people that deserve it, to people that actually try and make up for what they've done. Snape was one of three people responsible for the murder of Harry's parents, and even with that knowledge, persisted in tormenting their innocent child. Rowling trying to shoehorn in his "love" for Lily doesn't change it and doesn't make it any less garbage. I have no problem with the grey area of the spectrum, it's just that Rowling's application of it was terrible in regards to Snape and the way she tried to excuse him was utterly garbage and made no sense. It was just as bad as how Kishi tried to excuse Sasuke, especially in regards to Sakura.
Her destroying the house was an accident, resulting from her hitting the ground in front of Salad. Her actions were not an accident, and they were most definitely an attempt to scare Salad into silence because she didn't like the questions Salad was asking. She did it to intimidate. It was pretty damn clear. It is a non-sequitur because the two scenarios aren't similar at all. They don't even begin to compare.
No, they didn't mature. There wasn't any "deep, enduring love". She didn't even know Sasuke, let alone understand him. There was absolutely nothing mature about the her "love" for Sasuke at all. Literally everything in the manga proves this. Kishimoto even said himself that her "love" was nothing more than an "addiction", like being addicted to a drug. It was poisonous, not in any way mature. She remained a gross fangirl until the end.
Edited by AHK, 26 October 2017 - 05:16 PM.
"I am the One-Eyed King."
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:56 PM
When Kishimoto says addiction, he says it as a joke. Context and language provide that. I feel a lot of interview interpretations misunderstand use of sardonic humor as serious. At the very least, it is intended as a joke. Debatable like everything if its funny.
Kishimoto didn't excuse Sasuke, 699 heavily lies on by Kakashi that frankly, Sasuke is lucky and owes his freedom to them both. He is a sympathetic villain, but he -is- still a villain. Same for Snape really. Completely subjective on whether he is forgivable or not, or deserves it, and not a discussion I'll go further on. I only note unforgiving in that you choose not to forigve him, and there is no bad in that.
It's not a non-sequitor as they are both tropes of humor. To excuse one as such but not the other and take it seriously is hypocrisy at best. Sakura -immediately- apologizes after this, so I do not understand the intent of making it appear malicious. It's essentially the equivalent of telling someone to hush, except here a set up for the humor that follows.
The first paragraph is a what if. We can't know one way or another, and is another point not worth going deeper in.
No, he didn't mean it as a joke. The connotation of the word he used had nothing humorous about it. He wasn't being funny. Don't try to parrot about context and language like you actually pay attention to it, because given all of your arguments, you don't.
Except that he did. We've already discussed this in other threads. Sasuke was a mass murderer and received zero punishment. There were literally no repercussions for his crimes. Kishimoto simply excused him and left it at that. That applies to Snape as well. He was a murderer, and tormented Harry, and then Rowling came up with this "always" garbage to try and excuse what Snape did. Choosing not to forgive certain things and being unforgiving are not necessarily mutual ideas.
No, they are not both tropes of humor. There was absolutely zero humor in what Sakura did until after her house was destroyed. Her actions had nothing to do with humor. She intended to intimidate Salad into silence. That is not the case with Sakura's scenes with Naruto. It's not hypocritical because the two scenarios are non-sequitur, they have no comparison.
Actually we do know, given what Sakura displayed later. If she didn't care later, she wouldn't have cared then. It isn't that hard of a discussion.
Edited by AHK, 26 October 2017 - 06:03 PM.
"I am the One-Eyed King."
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 26 October 2017 - 06:18 PM
We can't know for sure because it is not written. The answer does not exist, or Kishimoto has not stated what it was. Sasuke killing someone like Naruto is unprecedented. We can only assume, which is why the question of the OP is "What if"? and not Jeopardy style "What is?"
Sasuke -did- receive punishment, as he was celled until pardoned. The aggravation for some is that he was not punished enough, a point I can understand, as the fact he was celled is not entirely clear until the anime shows it. Given Kishimoto's theme of forgiveness, I understand why Sasuke's punishment was not worse. It could have been handled better, I think a visual of Sasuke's appeal or the like, but that would require more chapters.
The intent is a joke. If you are intent on disagreeing that's fine, we can go over the interview in depth on the debate thread, but not here.
On Topic, mostly, and to circle back to the first point:
A cool way to still make the ending happy with a Naruto death is have Sakura fight Sasuke. Maybe Sasuke dies, or is celled for life. Without Naruto to petition for him, it is unlikely he would be pardoned, especially with his death on his hands. Be cooler, and have her inherit Kurama, and maybe she becomes Hokage in Naruto's place.
It is written. Sakura was fine with Sasuke despite trying to murder Naruto and herself multiple times, and trying to kill everyone she supposedly cared about and enslave the world. She didn't care then, so she wouldn't have cared if Sasuke had killed Naruto at LOI. She would have stepped over his body and not given it much thought.
He didn't receive any punishment whatsoever. He murdered and was responsible for the death of thousands, and was let go.
No, the intent was not a joke. He wasn't joking. It wasn't hard to understand, and the way he wrote the story proves his words there. If you want to take this to other threads, by all means, we probably should.
"I am the One-Eyed King."
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 26 October 2017 - 07:34 PM
Perhaps in most mangas, but when you've got an author who is willing to walk back on his own statements and chalk up years of character development as mere misdirection, the intent is certainly disputable. I'd like to think he would not be foolhardy enough to take Sasuke, Naruto and Hinata in that direction despite what has already been established, but I've been wrong before.
The arguments used about his intent all argue institutional or financial reasons as to why he did what he did. It stands to reason that if this is so, then those motivations would push in the same direction during Boruto. It's hard to argue these forces pushed the end result of Naruto, but suddenly they no longer operate once we get to Boruto or push in some other direction.
Regardless of what you think of his intent, it's difficult to believe that they would pick these pairings, make a movie about them, and then write a story about their kids in which they send hidden messages that the couples are in trouble or in despair, especially when Gaiden ends the way it does. This is why I'm not receptive of people's arguments that they are unhappy. I've never heard a satisfactory answer to the objection of why the would do all these things only to immediately dump on it.
As I said before, I don't think Kishimoto and his successor are all that subtle in their writing. They would not write endings like Gaiden while silently sending messages that the ending is really not true and everyone's unhappy.
A better argument is that the authors are doing a poor job of showing that they are.
If we're to give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume that he hasn't simply done a terrible job at fleshing out Sakura as a character, then sure. I'm fine with either/or. Same goes with the premise of this thread really. In all likelihood, Kishimoto would never allow this kind of situation to arise in the first place, but given the lackluster writing he had established at this point and the remainder of the manga, we are working from the standpoint of what we've been presented with and reaching the logical conclusions that would actually follow as a result.
Who is giving him the benefit of the doubt? I am simply unwilling to walk the speculative minefield that many of the "intent" arguments are required to go through nor am I willing to buy into the idea that the authors are willing to dedicate a bunch of time and effort into making a series involving the children of their chose paining while at the same time subtly dumbing on the choice. How does it make sense to do that? And to what end would they be doing it? To chase a fandom that swore never to return?
No I don't think Kishimoto would do it either. Sasuke killing Sakura would make a much bigger mess of his core theme than he already had. Kishimoto largely protected the both of them and Sasuke killing an established on screen character (rather than nameless mooks) would make doing that so much harder.
Jounin
Posted 27 October 2017 - 06:18 AM
Bringing Sasuke back to the village wasn't his responsibility either and yet he did it anyway....despite how bad Sasuke treated him. I would argue that Sasuke and Naruto being best friends shouldn't even exist because they bonded over nothing. Naruto saw Sasuke as his rival and all of a sudden "We are best friends." How did they become best friends? I don't know about you, but my relationship with my best friend doesn't involve trying to kill them because "they remind me of being weak." Goku and Vegeta feel more like best friends than Sasuke and Naruto.
Sasuke: "I am going to kill you, Naruto."
Naruto: "Awwww, I love you too, Sasuke."
Sakura: "I love you, Naruto."
Naruto: "You're full of kitten, Sakura."
I don't know who is more insane...Naruto or Sasuke.
Naruto and Sakura had a far better relationship than Sasuke had with anyone and they had more connections, but Naruto was willing to throw everything away, including the village, just to bring him back. For what? Nothing. Naruto is a dude that said "How can I be hokage and confess my feelings to a girl when I can't even keep my promises?" Really, Naruto? You barely know the guy.
So yeah, I can't accept that as an argument. Sorry.
This reminds of the kitten reasoning in Dark Knight Rises. "I knew you were the Batman when you gave me that look."
Naruto: "We are best friends because Sasuke gave me that look: Not the 'I want to have sex with you look,' but the 'Hey man, we're both orphans' look. He gave me that wink and I knew we were best friends."
And here I thought best friends were people that loved and cared about each other and helped each other out when times got rough and you know....actually being friendly? It would explain alot though. In the Narutoverse, wanting to murder you is a sign of love and confessing your love for you means "I hate you. Go away."
So that's what I have been doing wrong all these years.....*sarcasm*
yup the naruto manga has very twisted sick ideals that makes no believable sense.
And You know the more i look at back at the manga the more flaws i see like why jiraiya didn't raise naruto or watch over him if he was godfather? why did tsunade couldn't find any other jounin to stop sasuke from leaving konoha? why didnt kakashi critic the bad ninja system and just go along with the toxic system? and the list goes on.
Plus im so disgusted with the naruto as a character himself i dont think he was EVER truly heroic and selfless he only cared about sucking sasukes kitten long and hard. He only preached about world peace and never did anything about it He never try to understand why sasuke hated what the village did to him he forced his ideas by doing talk no jutsu.
When i started to read the anti endings blogs post i almost agree with everything he says.
http://anti-endings....i naruto/page/2
.
Edited by rikakim94, 27 October 2017 - 06:22 AM.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:23 PM
Snape was a terrible character, and Rowling's attempt to make him good and excuse his past transgressions was laughable, and its sad that the fanbase ate that kitten up.
Still better than what Kishimoto did with Sasuke...and people ate that kitten up too.
You're comparing a situation where somebody's friend was literally going to die to that same friend being obligated to pay all of another friends bills. The two aren't even remotely similar. I believe that Naruto's friendship with Sasuke was incredibly and criminally fabricated and terribly written, but it doesn't compare to what you're implying with Sakura. Sakura is a damn adult. It isn't Naruto's responsibility to pay all of her bills or take care of her.
You're right. Paying your friend's bills is a lot easier to do and far more productive....especially if you could also help them out by showing how they could get their life back together. Maybe even try to get her so called "husband" to come back.
And again, am I the only human being who actually help's people because I think it is the right thing to do? I have paid people's bills before when I had the money to do so. I have helped rebuild houses after destruction. I have bailed people out of jail and tried to help them gain control of their lives. You don't think Naruto could do this? Maybe raise a fundraiser? Maybe even give Sakura a bit of his own money because...well, how much does a Hokage make in terms of a paycheck.
We do this all the time in the America with perfect strangers if they can't pay their hospital bills, if a natural disaster destroys their home, if people put up a "GoFundMe" accounts.
Again, I would hate to all be your best friends because I would be screwed if something bad happened and I needed help.
Not your responsibility?
Alright, then maybe we need to get rid of this then since..."it is not our responsibility."
Let's gert rid of all charities because "it is not our responsibility."
Remember all those hurricanes that devestated people's homes?
NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY.
Hey, let's ask Yamato what he thinks?
Why are you rebuilding the village Yamato? It's not your responsibility. Just make yourself your own house and let everyone else fend for themselves.
So, for any of you who say "It is not his responsibility" I never want to see you helping anyone out in any way. Nothing. Not even your best friend because..."hey, it is not your responsibility and they are perfect adults capable of taking care of themselves....."
And no, don't you ever kittening tell me that that is a different story because it is not and it is not ridiculous to expect Naruto to show some kind of care to a best friend in trouble no matter how big or small. You think being a hero only means to intervene when the village is about to be leveled? God, someone tell Superman to not save those suicide jumpers because "Hey, it is not his resposonsibility."
You know just because people are adults doesn't mean they don't need help.
I am absolutly appalled and disgusted with people who think this way. No, it is not your responsibility, but why would it need to for you to care and help? I don't care if it is something as small as just driving them to the store or something bigger like saving their life and helping them back on their feet after a huge lose. ESPECIALLY if they are your best friend.
I help people all the time because I feel it is far more productive and a lot more fullfilling to help humanity, but I guess you wouldn't understand that would you?
Wow....just wow....
yup the naruto manga has very twisted sick ideals that makes no believable sense.
And You know the more i look at back at the manga the more flaws i see like why jiraiya didn't raise naruto or watch over him if he was godfather? why did tsunade couldn't find any other jounin to stop sasuke from leaving konoha? why didnt kakashi critic the bad ninja system and just go along with the toxic system? and the list goes on.
Plus im so disgusted with the naruto as a character himself i dont think he was EVER truly heroic and selfless he only cared about sucking sasukes kitten long and hard. He only preached about world peace and never did anything about it He never try to understand why sasuke hated what the village did to him he forced his ideas by doing talk no jutsu.
When i started to read the anti endings blogs post i almost agree with everything he says.
http://anti-endings....i naruto/page/2
.
Yes and no. I kind of agree, but disagree a little. Naruto was always selfish when it came to Sasuke. He is not completely selfish as he shows times to help others when needed, but when the choice was Sasuke or the village, he seemed to pick Sasuke over it. IHe even picked Sasuke over himself which is a bit weird. If Sasuke wasn't apart of it, he was always for the best option.
The world peace thing is just a joke dream. I am not sure why people have heroes stereotypically want such a thing. At least Superman is more realistic to me in this sense in that he doesn't really preach world peace so much as he says "I just want a world where they don't need me anymore. Where people can solve problems on their own."
However, you are right in that Naruto is not much of a hero really. In fact, looking at series like One Punch Man and Boku no Hero Academia....you see that this idea of what a true hero is comes into question in the series. What does it means to be a hero? In OPM, you see the heroes who are famous do it for glory or selfish pride while Mumen Rider does it because he genuinly loves helping people regardless if he lives or dies, succeeds or fails. At long as he tries, he is a hero.
Naruto could do with this lesson.
Edited by James S Cassidy, 27 October 2017 - 04:50 PM.
Illustrious Tap Dancer
Posted 27 October 2017 - 06:06 PM
The arguments used about his intent all argue institutional or financial reasons as to why he did what he did. It stands to reason that if this is so, then those motivations would push in the same direction during Boruto. It's hard to argue these forces pushed the end result of Naruto, but suddenly they no longer operate once we get to Boruto or push in some other direction.
Oh I don't disagree with that, Nate. Your logic is quite sound. And I'm not really on the whole "Kishi was doing it for profit then, but is now sending hidden messages" bandwagon. He couldn't concoct subtle hidden messages to save his life and any "hidden messages" the original series did have were serendipity at absolute best. If you take the time to reread the manga with hindsight in mind, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. My issue is any notion that Kishimoto would never walk back on the idea of Naruto, Sasuke and Hinata being large happy couples as you put it. Logically, I'd say the intent is pretty clear in that they are indeed large happy couples and that this won't ever change. However, from a precedential standpoint . . .
Regardless of what you think of his intent, it's difficult to believe that they would pick these pairings, make a movie about them, and then write a story about their kids in which they send hidden messages that the couples are in trouble or in despair, especially when Gaiden ends the way it does.
. . . we aren't exactly dealing with an author whose sense of storytelling is logical. I could use the exact same reasoning, circa 2009, to make the convincing case that it'd be difficult to believe that he would make it to where Naruto never loved Sakura, that Sakura's character arc would be reverted back to its chapter 3 state, that a mere side character would ever be boosted to the role of a fullblown heroine and that the final third of the manga would be a 250 chapter snooze fest of pointless oneupsmanship and games of guess-who's-the-antagonist as opposed to serving as the fulcrum for title character's actual character goals. And so for me, it's not so much a matter of intent (at least beyond an immediate short term basis), but the simple fact that this author is not above completely disregarding what he previously established and going with something else. Even if it's something big and crucial. So when questioned on whether he'd be above doing the same thing to Naruto, Sasuke and Hinata's characters at this time, I think the answer is an emphatic no. I mean . . . for the sake of Boruto fans, I hope he wouldn't. But he doesn't exactly have a good track record when it comes to consistency . . . or well, general trustworthiness. 
Hey, let's ask Yamato what he thinks?
Why are you rebuilding the village Yamato? It's not your responsibility. Just make yourself your own house and let everyone else fend for themselves.
Lazy writing at its finest. About as believable as Naruto being too bogged down by paperwork to spend time with his family. Logic and reason be damned! This is our story and we're telling it the way we want to tell it!
Edited by ThroughWithLove, 27 October 2017 - 08:26 PM.
Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!
The One True Demi-Goddess of Misfortune
Posted 18 November 2017 - 06:48 PM
-Breaks Long Hiatus-
I'd argue that Kishimoto's storytelling is very much "logical", at least as logical as you can get with a story about ninjas, though this begs on what meaning are you referring?
There's no character "reversion". Whenever a romantic initiation is made characters often get flustered and shy, at least in Naruto. 699 is no different. Arguably it's a step forward of culmination of a character goal that can be fully realized, given Sasuke has-finally- changed.
The last 250 chapters actually -do- resolve the main character's goals. The fight against Obito and co. is the final obstacle. The writing is certainly not perfect, badly needed additional foreshadowing of Kaguya as an upstanding example, but it's logical enough in its flow and connection to the conclusion.
And I'd argue he doesn't throw away what he priorly established, rather, what is -predicted- to be the established molding turns out to be wrong, and instead, another perfectly valid prediction turns out to be the answer. Thus your predictions in 2009 made may be off because you are guessing ends of an incomplete work, and/or do not know that work as well as you thought. Thus I like to use the "I see a Deer, I see a Cow" example, because many saw a deer where perhaps you are arguing a cow should have been, back in 2009.
Lastly, five years is a long time, plenty of time to further in development of new things, and is not the best marker in general.
"Logical" lmao.
Its so "Logical" It defies literally everything we know about human nature, its own themes, actual events and things Characters have said repeatedly. There is nothing logical about Naruto pretty much directly after Itachi dies.
Pls shame me for procrastinating. 
Chuunin
Posted 18 November 2017 - 08:31 PM
If the manga really ends at chapter 700, readers could probably imagine that all of them live a happy life, regardless of the situation.This part right here caught my attention. If your line of work is somewhat similar to what I have studied, then I agree to a point.
Usually, women who stick to these kind of relationships have some sort of self-esteem issues (maybe they have just gotten used to the routine or they fear being alone if they leave the relationship), or they have not develop enough confidence to stand up and either stop the line of neglecting and actually ask for what they feel they deserve.
And when we see that these type of relationships are not healthy, we do get frustrated to see Sakura like this. Heck, even Naruto's relationship is not a healthy one. Is this the happy ending that was apparently planned?
Edited by Namaenash, 18 November 2017 - 08:32 PM.
http://namaenasuyou.tumblr.com/ || https://www.fanfiction.net/u/6308104/
"I'm sorry I didn't believe. But I'd given up believing in so much, until I met you. From the first day I saw you, you were everything I ever wanted to believe in. You can do this, Diana. I know you can...But I have to go."
"What? What are you saying?"
"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."
The One True Demi-Goddess of Misfortune
Posted 18 November 2017 - 08:50 PM
Pls shame me for procrastinating.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 19 November 2017 - 03:29 PM
Its so "Logical" It defies literally everything we know about human nature, its own themes, actual events and things Characters have said repeatedly. There is nothing logical about Naruto pretty much directly after Itachi dies.
Literally as Yahagi left... Hm... coincidence?
The One True Demi-Goddess of Misfortune
Posted 19 November 2017 - 05:46 PM
Elaborate?
Elaborate? The fault with this though from the onset, is that Naruto doesn't love Sakura, and well, I fail to see how a highly succesful writer who makes the top three should be called "bad".
Just to always insert information that disagrees with this, the two post Naruto movies after 699/700 were the highest selling movies. Both featured very little Sakura.
I.E., Naruto can function quite well without Team 7 Dynamics. It's not why the majority of people love Naruto. Even Road to Ninja has functionally little in Team 7 Dynamics, its more Naruto/Sakura featured and Sasuke making a small appearance, and Boruto the Movie Sakura making a small appearance.
Character repeatedly says they love another character, character is visibly upset because the character he loves is in love with someone else. Other character keep noticing how said Character feels about the person he said he liked, That character keeps telling people, including his dad that the person he likes is his "Girl friend." but like, Clearly that person is totally not in love even though they keep SAYING and doing things that indicate they are in love. in fact they do it so well EVERYONE in the book BELIEVES they are in love.
I guess Naruto is actually a sociopath who can lie about his feelings so well that trained Ninja's mistake them for being real along with half the audience.
This is precisely why Kishi is a bad writer. If he was a good one he wouldn't have written something that was meant as a joke seriously, but he did because...It was meant to be serious at the time. Which torpedo's your claim. Either he meant it and changed his mind at the last moment which = bad writing, or he never meant it and wrote a bad joke that no one got.
Pick one.
Who the hell chases after someone who has 1. Tried to kill them. 2. tried to kill people that the person they tried to kill cares about 3. Never really did anything of value for them. 4. Keeps asking to be left alone, 5. Tries to kill them again. 6. Tries to kill people who keep trying to help them while insisting they don't give a kitten about them?
Normal people don't thats who. People who follow HUMAN Behavioral patterns DON'T do the things Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura do. If people DO the things they do, they get institutionalized because they aren't normal humans. "b-but they're not normal humans, they're ninja's" Ninja's who are supposed to be human's.
Naruto doesn't function with kitten without Team 7 because SASUKE is Naruto's driving force after the "promise of a lifetime" gets retconned to not being about romance at all.
To the bolded: Everyone's noticed. 
This is probably the one and only time I'm going to respond to you.
Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 19 November 2017 - 05:53 PM.
Pls shame me for procrastinating.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 19 November 2017 - 07:16 PM
I guess Naruto is actually a sociopath who can lie about his feelings so well that trained Ninja's mistake them for being real along with half the audience.
Actually according the Sakura in the Last that is exactly the case, which is why he is "The Worst Scumbag."
The One True Demi-Goddess of Misfortune
Posted 19 November 2017 - 07:27 PM
Actually according the Sakura in the Last that is exactly the case, which is why he is "The Worst Scumbag."
Like this is exactly the problem with the narrative Kishi tried to cobble together. Either Naruto is an honest person about his feelings for Sakura OR he's such a good liar everyone believed him and he allowed Sakura to take the kitten when she does the same thing he was apparently doing the ENTIRE series. He's been lying to everyone about his feelings for her for unknown reasons, but when SHE lies in an attempt to do a good thing she's the bad guy All while the biggest liar has the nerve to call HER a liar when HE'S BEEN LYING TO EVERYONE.
What we end up with, IF as Analyzer claims this was all truly Kishimoto's intent from the start is: Sakura is a Nutbag and Sasuke is a dead beat sperm donor and Naruto is a literal monster.
Pls shame me for procrastinating.
Summoning Master
Posted 19 November 2017 - 08:04 PM
It would make sense if this is someone's IT dream. But it's not.
The One True Demi-Goddess of Misfortune
Posted 19 November 2017 - 08:30 PM
Pls shame me for procrastinating.
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