441 replies to this topic

[Atheck]

You make sense. It's just that when we go by creating hypotheticals of feats it boils down to opinion. You'll give a scenario based on your views and someone else gives a different scenario that is also reasonable with their views, and then it becomes an endless circle of discussion.
 
I'd rather just go with the plot than creating hypotheticals in my head. It's too much of a hassle for me otherwise, and it allows me to not create too much expectations of how fights will go down. Surprises are always nice.

Some conclusions are arrived at using simple common sense. It's like trying to debate who is stronger between Moegi and Hashirama. The answer for that question should be obvious, similar to a myriad of the hypothetical match ups that people create.
 

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Sasuke unleashes perfect Susanoo soon, it's just that as far as the current plot goes he still doesn't have it. If it happens next chapter then we can say that Sasuke had it since chapter 661, but that's about it. Speculation is ok, but let's also remember what the facts are and see the current situation based on that as well.
 
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Naruto can definitely beat current Sasuke without Kurama, I'm just saying that it's an existing possibility that shouldn't be brushed off completely, going by the plot.

In this specific situation, Naruto being inferior to Sasuke is plot based. Since his statement was introduced, there have been no contradictions or developments to argue that he might have surpassed or equaled the level that Sasuke is at currently. You would be playing the devil's advocate if you made an argument that contested against what Kishi had Naruto state. That is, if we look at the situation through plot centred lenses.

[pumyte]

 
It'll be a long wait, but January 15. 

that IS long (・へ・)

[James S Cassidy]

I wanted an NS moment in 660-661 before it even was cool XD

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Again I'm saying this:

Sakura isn't going to give up her life for naruto, no one on team 7 is going to die.
-naruto has plot armor in stamina and that fight with Sasuke
-sakura has an important role with team 7, mainly that future issue with Sasuke and not trusting him, narutos lost kurama but sakura isn't going to die anytime soon.
-Sasuke obviously going to fight with naruto later.

If naruto is going to die, Kakashi will sacrifice his life to bring back Naruto(Rinne tensei and he saw the seals with his sharingan), his will to live is to make sure Naruto succeed and fullfill his dreams, kakashi's character as come into a full circle.
The manga is called Naruto but also make sure that Naruto will fullfill all of his dreams which means he wont die.

So if Naruto dies, it's either Obito, kakashi or even Madara being able to revive him, unless if Tsunade knows a secret jutsu a.k.a asspull.

 

Second, Naruto with sage mode is nowhere near Sasuke, not even in a dreams, he's vulnerable to genjutsu without Kurama.

 

 

 

Anyway, my theory about Naruto dying and give development to Sakura is becoming true i guess.

It was funny, a lot of people wishing for Sakura's death to give NS moment, and i was pointing towards Naruto dying to give Sakura development towards NS.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 December 2013 - 08:14 PM.

[arian_rad]

I would be really surprised if sakura's conversation with chiyo about how an extraction from a biju will cause death for whoever it is sealed within. This is the perfect moment for either sakura or minato to come in for the rescue but looking at how minato is busy with Obito, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that the medic who knows naruto best will be the one to help him out.

[redragon88]

Some conclusions are arrived at using simple common sense. It's like trying to debate who is stronger between Moegi and Hashirama. The answer for that question should be obvious, similar to a myriad of the hypothetical match ups that people create.
 

In this specific situation, Naruto being inferior to Sasuke is plot based. Since his statement was introduced, there have been no contradictions or developments to argue that he might have surpassed or equaled the level that Sasuke is at currently. You would be playing the devil's advocate if you made an argument that contested against what Kishi had Naruto state. That is, if we look at the situation through plot centred lenses.

 

You thinking something is common sense is your opinion and no one else. Between Naruto and Sasuke it's never that obvious. Don't compare with something ridiculous like Moegi vs Hashi. Come on.

[Inferno180]

If naruto is going to die, Kakashi will sacrifice his life to bring back Naruto(Rinne tensei and he saw the seals with his sharingan), his will to live is to make sure Naruto succeed and fullfill his dreams, kakashi's character as come into a full circle.
The manga is called Naruto but also make sure that Naruto will fullfill all of his dreams which means he wont die.
So if Naruto dies, it's either Obito, kakashi or even Madara being able to revive him, unless if Tsunade knows a secret jutsu a.k.a asspull.
 
Second, Naruto with sage mode is nowhere near Sasuke, not even in a dreams, he's vulnerable to genjutsu without Kurama.
 
 

 
Anyway, my theory about Naruto dying and give development to Sakura is becoming true i guess.
It was funny, a lot of people wishing for Sakura's death to give NS moment, and i was pointing towards Naruto dying to give Sakura development towards NS.

Actually I'd feel that chattes rtn incarnation theory may be the more spot on one.

[Atheck]

 

You thinking something is common sense is your opinion and no one else. Between Naruto and Sasuke it's never that obvious. Don't compare with something ridiculous like Moegi vs Hashi. Come on.

 

It's an analogy, simple as that. The two arguing points stem from different methods of attainment. One is going by previous feats shown in the manga, the other is arguing via the ambiguous and undefined claim of "it could happen". Rather than try and justify the standpoint of Naruto being a match for EMS Sasuke by claiming that it's not a foregone conclusion because it hasn't happened yet (despite it contradicting already established plot concepts when using your logic), you could try and base it off what we know regarding their abilities.  

 

Edit: I haven't been fully adhering to feats also. The claim that Sasuke has Perfect Susanoo is valid, but it's not set in stone yet, like you said. However, judging by what we know, Sasuke should still have the upper hand. 

Edited by Atheck, 25 December 2013 - 09:19 PM.

[Nostradamus]

This was a really good gift for Christmas but before I start talking about this chapter, I have to say something about the previous ones since Madara got resurrected . And I have to say I liked them, it's true that it didn't make any sense at all the way Madara could use Susanoo without his eyes or the rest of the stuff that he did. But I liked it, not because it didn't make any sense at all but because it finally gave me what I really wanted in this war, which is a real battle. The fight between Naruto and Tobi/Obito wasn't really a fight, it was basically a political debate. It was something like this "The world is going end. No it won't. Yes it will. No it won't. Yes it will. No it won't." Of course it did have its good moments but there were a couple of them. It didn't fell like a real battle, at least to me. Now since Madara is so powerful and just beyond everyone else we finally that moment of "Oh my God the good guys are going to lose", now of course the good guys are not going to really going to lose but it finally creates that suspense of "How can the bad guy be defeated now?".

Now of the current chapter I really enjoyed it, the dialog between Shukaku and priest was really good, loved the fact that even though Shukaku made Gaara's life a "living hell", Gaara still views Shukaku as an equal and of course I loved that fact that Naruto finally lost Kurama. This opens the possibility to so many things. For example if Minato transfers his Kurama in Naruto will that cancel Naruto's death? Will Naruto unleash a power that we've never seen before, since he knows his going to die he will just go berserk. Will Sasuke become a man?

And so many other things. Oh and get ready for a Narusaku moment because it's coming, I don't know exactly what kind of moment there will be, but get ready for it.

And I hope Bee's trick worked because I don't wanna see him gone. I'm not worried about Naruto at all.

Edited by Nostradamus, 25 December 2013 - 10:55 PM.

[Luna]

I didn't even remember about this chapter.........Now I'm just shocked. I'm sure we will see everyone's reactions but Sakura, Sasuke and Kakashi or Tsunade's reactions are the ones that going to be more focused on.

[morgaine4]

 

When it comes to raw power Naruto has most definitely gone down, but we all know that being a ninja is more than just that.

 

I think we should wait and see what happens in the future. Sometimes we assume thing are a certain way only for us to be proven wrong. Those people that claim Naruto wouldn't even be in the 10 top without Kurama could be in for a surprise. Let's not forget that on his own his chakra pool is still pretty big, and being the #1 most unpredictable ninja is always a plus. I'm sure Naruto could match the Kages even as he is now, but only with the right battle plan of course.

 

Don't you think you're overselling Sasuke? He's pretty powerful, but I'm sure the Kages could match him depending on the strategies. I think even Naruto could have a shot at matching Sasuke without Kurama if he could come up with a proper plan of attack instead of his usual "Leeroy Jenkins because I have bijuu power".

 

If Sasuke had a perfect Susanoo then I'd say he's clearly on a league of his own, but he's not there yet. He might be getting there given his ability to create armor for Kurama, but I'll have to see him battle on his own before I give final judgment.

 

 

The amount of raw power Naruto now has, has decreased compared to what he had before, but compared to others I think he has quite a bit more raw power than most other people --including Sasuke-- because remember a major Uzumaki trait in addition to their special bodies is the amount of chakra they posses.  It's why the Uzumaki were ideal Jinchuriki, it's why they could be Jinchuriki for Kurama, and it's because of the amount of raw chakra that Naruto possesses that he was even able to function as a Jinchuriki at a young age.

 

Naruto doesn't have the same amount of power he had before, but I think he's still super-powered (just not as OP), I think and hope it's selling him short to say he's not one of the top tier characters.

 

Afterall, remember Naruto's true strength wasn't due to Kurama, but was due to his ability to suppress Kurama at even a young age.  That's not to say that he's as powerful as Sasuke is at the moment (Kishi has to make Naruto the under-dog somehow so that when he doesn't defeat Sasuke it'll mean something), but to say he's not top 10 is underestimating him IMO.

 

 

[Chatte]

Actually I'd feel that chattes rtn incarnation theory may be the more spot on one.

Oh I sure hope so!

[morgaine4]

Oh I sure hope so!

 

What is the incarnation theory??  I'm drawing a bland =/

[Chatte]

 

What is the incarnation theory??  I'm drawing a bland =/

Not incarnation per se... Dunno where he pulled it off, lol.

I mean that at the time the Kyuubi was getting extracted, Sakura interfered, defended Naruto and in the end Naruto won by his own power - the rasengan left legacy by his master who was a technique invented by his father.

technique which, funny enough was made after observing bijuudama... dat minato.

anyway, that was the point with rtn.

at least for what i remember, lol. maybe inferno reffers to something else?

[oksus]

Kurama's plan is likely for Gaara to give Naruto Shukaku's chakra.

He has Chakra from 2 tails up to 7 tails.

Hachibi was smart enough to cut his tentacle off, allowing Naruto to get his chakra as well.

And do not forget about KCM, it is stored separately from Kurama, thus leaving Naruto with a portion of it's Chakra, even if Kurama is extracted. 
And for the Yin Part of Kurama, it's obvious it will be given to Naruto by Minato. 


This means that Naruto will have chakra of all 9 Beasts, but not the body of 10 tails.
SO6P words, straight out of anime (Episode 329) (Using anime due to better translation )

"Even if you are far apart, you will always be together. There will come a time when you will be united again. Each of you with an unique name... and a different form than before. And unlike when you were inside me, you will be guided down the right path."

Let's analyse that.
"There will come a time when you will be united again. Each of you with an unique name..."

So they will be united again, each with an unique name. If you think about it, when they are united inside Gedo Mazo they become Juubi, meaning they all have 1 name. 
SO6P was not talking about them being united into Juubi...

" and a different form than before."
Reaffirming once again that he is not talking about them being united into Juubi. But something else, something new.

"And unlike when you were inside me, you will be guided down the right path."
Obviously referring to how Naruto will find a way to lead all 9 of them towards the path of peace.


So Sage of Six Paths basically created a prophecy about 9 tailed beasts being united, but without becoming Juubi, but rather something else.

And there is a high possibility that Naruto will acquire the Chakra of last two Beasts in the following chapters. 
He will become a "Pseudo" Jinchuriki, having all 9 tailed beasts in him, but since he does not posses Gedo Mazo they will not be combined into Juubi.

This will allow him to fight Madara on equal terms.

 

This is a theroy I made on NB. Just posting it here as well to hear your thoughts on it. 

[sushi.]

I hope Sakura's speech has not been forgotten. The fodders must not think "without Naruto, we're doomed!", but "how can we help Naruto now?" yeah, they can't help, they're just a burden but whatever

Edited by sushi., 26 December 2013 - 01:31 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Not incarnation per se... Dunno where he pulled it off, lol.

I mean that at the time the Kyuubi was getting extracted, Sakura interfered, defended Naruto and in the end Naruto won by his own power - the rasengan left legacy by his master who was a technique invented by his father.

technique which, funny enough was made after observing bijuudama... dat minato.

anyway, that was the point with rtn.

at least for what i remember, lol. maybe inferno reffers to something else?

Kyuubi already got extracted and Sakura didnt interfered, Naruto cant win Madara with his own power alone.

It either Naruto will receive the power from Yondaim with the other half of the kyuubi or it's a set-up for Sasuke to save everyone.

[Jake]

I liked this chapter, I loved everything with Gaara and Shukaku and I can't wait for next chapter, when ever that is, (at least I got a lot of books today to tide me over) Maybe it's just me being skeptic or me just not wanting Naruto to lose Kurama, be I am not convinced that he has, this isn't the first time Kishi has done something like this, remember last year, who's to say this won't turn into another troll ending like 615.

[Slextrem]

Well, this was completely predictable.

[morgaine4]

Well, this was completely predictable.

 

Haha, the cliffhanger was predictable, but I thought the everything with Gaara and Shukaku was well done.