217 replies to this topic

[Kanae]

^ Unhealthy how, exactly?

 

Kanaeee!! Dear, wonderful read as always! <3

Thank you, my dear Chatte!! <33

 

I need to reread your post Kanae

I hope you enjoy it!

[Dkey]

ooh we can vote now?

 

I voted 1/10

 

Sasuke shouldn't be trusted with anyone.

and Karin shouldn't trust Sasuke.

 

it's an unhealthy relationship.

 

First don't take this personal but do we really need to judge every aspect of the manga ( including and especially the relationships).

At the end of the day if the author wants to write about an unhealthy relationship it's his decision.

We as readers could at least find out what that relationship ( or characters or anything else ) mean for the entire story instead of labeling it based on it's flaws.

[Kanae]

I wonder if there will be a SasuKarin kid by the end.

If Naruto has them, it's pretty safe to expect them from Sasuke, too. Kishi loves his parallels and new-generation-themes a little too much to pass up on that chance 
 

We know that from where the story is headed Sasuke will live by the end and that he will return to the village and so will Karin (as it is implied when she mentions how every Konoha ninja has a "warm feeling" chakra despite being....well interrogated) whereas Suigetsu will be off collecting swords and Jugo will...err I don't know what he plans on doing I mean he didn't really seem to care about helping Sasuke after he got left for dead in the Kage Summit arc (though he had no objections to going back to help him) so its likely Sasuke and Karin are the only members of Taka that are returning to Konoha which I think is a minor hint

 
The scene with Karin thinking that every Konoha ninja has warm chakra is actually filler. And Juugo is actually pretty attached to Sasuke; the only reason he suggested doing something else aside from finding him and Karin is because Suigetsu told him they would be cockblocking them hahaha 
 
All in all, I'm still not 100% sold on the idea of Sasuke coming back to Konoha at the end because I can see him becoming Otokage, too. But I do agree that Karin's staying with him regardless of where he ends up. 
 

-Sasuke stabbed Karin, and Karin is fine with that because he's a sweet talker with that minor apology, I'm fine with this being an unhealthy relationship (since it all the more feels like a darker version of NS) but do you think that this will affect their kid at all? Do you think he'll be atleast slightly disturbed knowing that at one point his father stabbed his mother and nearly finished her off simply because she just happened to be in the crossfire? I get that he was evil at the time but...I mean...jesus, I don't care if its OOC for Sauce or not I demand he atleast look like he did more than what he did was a minor inconvenience

 
I won't touch the matter of the apology because it's been explained a lot of times (and I don't think SK is unhealthy, alas). I however do see what you mean; thing is that if this were the real world we're talking about? Definitely. Alas since it's Kishi's story, he is ultimately who decides how to handle this sort of thing and going by his track-record, it won't have any negative consequences in the long-run. 
 
I'd however love to see it being brought up again, alongside Sasuke's general behavior towards Team 7 when he was dark 

Edited by Kanae, 25 April 2014 - 11:25 PM.

[luffyq1]

ooh we can vote now?

 

I voted 1/10

 

Sasuke shouldn't be trusted with anyone.

and Karin shouldn't trust Sasuke.

 

it's an unhealthy relationship.

1/10? That pretty generous.

 

0/10 for me.

[Gojira]

=/

[sushi.]

1/10? That pretty generous.

 

0/10 for me.

Your score is irrational, it contradicts canon moments in the manga. It would imply they have zero positive moments, and that the basis of their relationship is toxic. He tried to kill her and it was awful, but it did not cancel out their precious moments pre murder attempt.

Edited by sushi., 25 April 2014 - 11:35 PM.

[luffyq1]

Your score is irrational, it contradicts canon moments in the manga. It would imply they have zero positive moments, and that the basis of their relationship is toxic. He tried to kill her and it was awful, but it did not cancel out their precious moments pre murder attempt.

lol you judge my 0 score. 1/10 is that better?

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I have a question for the SK fans. What makes you see SasuKarin as a better alternative -- if I can word it that way -- to SasuSaku? Basically, what makes SasuSaku "bad" but SasuKarin okay, to you guys? I don't ask to antagonize or anything, it truly is just honest curiosity.

[Gojira]

I have a question for the SK fans. What makes you see SasuKarin as a better alternative -- if I can word it that way -- to SasuSaku? Basically, what makes SasuSaku "bad" but SasuKarin okay, to you guys? I don't ask to antagonize or anything, it truly is just honest curiosity.

I like it because it seems like parallel of NS

whereas Sakura supports Naruto in everything he does

Karin supports Sasuke, and is loyal to only him now (whereas she was loyal to Orochimaru but is willing to attack Kabuto and fight Orochimaru if it meant saving Sasuke)

I also like it because Sasuke's relationship is actually somewhat different with Karin then it is with everyone else. Most of the time Sasuke is actually polite to Karin even to the point where he gets after Suigetsu for insulting her and telling him to knock it off (even when its her that starts the argument) she also is quite possibly the only female in the series to give him an earful and isn't afraid get after him (much like Sakura gets after Naruto)

Karin is also devoted more to Sasuke then Sakura has shown to be, when Sasuke was getting ready to leave the village Sakura tried to convince him to stay put and forget about revenge so they could be happy together where as Karin would leave to go assist him at the drop of a hat.

Edited by Pepsi, 26 April 2014 - 01:09 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I have a question for the SK fans. What makes you see SasuKarin as a better alternative -- if I can word it that way -- to SasuSaku? Basically, what makes SasuSaku "bad" but SasuKarin okay, to you guys? I don't ask to antagonize or anything, it truly is just honest curiosity.

Ah, well you can read that link that Kanae posted here. But if there's a summary, I'm sure she will be back to explain.

[Kanae]

^ you know me too well lol
 

I have a question for the SK fans. What makes you see SasuKarin as a better alternative -- if I can word it that way -- to SasuSaku? Basically, what makes SasuSaku "bad" but SasuKarin okay, to you guys? I don't ask to antagonize or anything, it truly is just honest curiosity.

My main reasons are here. But it's a pretty long read because it's got pictures and explanations and the likes    to summarize, I believe SS's and SK's similarities are purely circumstantial, while Kishimoto has portrayed their dynamics and foundations fairly differently.

 

Some of the reasons I dislike SS are: Sakura hid her real personality and took a submissive role to him and as such I found SS detrimental to her character, Sasuke was an ass to her more often than not, lack of mutual understanding and respect - all things which give no plateau for healthy and mutual romantic development in my eyes. Which goes hand in hand with the negative portrayal it has had throughout the entirety of part II. All this coupled with the fact that Sasuke never gave her any particular sort of weight outside of the context of Team 7 and that Sakura’s romantic feelings for him (IMO) had very shallow bases. I feel that those things are either not present or even subverted in the SK dynamic.

 

For example: while there's nothing that highlights and individualizes Sakura [from Team 7] in regards to Sasuke (both Sakura and Naruto have got the same type of flashback when it comes to "picturing" SasuSaku, for example, and even during Sakura's confession and post-FoD Sasuke kept thinking about the Team as a whole) there are things that have highlighted Karin in regards to Sasuke (his smile to her in 482, awakening a power for her, Suigetsu saying they're about to hook up, Tobi pointing out that she's his favorite, his apology to her, etc). Then there's their behavior around Sasuke: while Sakura became "child-like" in front of him and even had an inner!Sakura because she didn't feel comfortable voicing her views in front of Sasuke and wanted to get on his good side, Karin is the dire opposite: Sasuke is actually the only person whom she allows to see the whole her, both the rough "tsun" sides and the lady-like "dere" sides. Moreover, while people love to say that Karin is a fangirl; she is actually a tsundere. So that's another big difference in their particular approaches to Sasuke right there, because Sasuke himself agrees that Karin isn't "easy to handle":

 

To give a visual example:

how karin is around suigetsu vs how karin is around sasuke

this is how Karin is around other characters (namely, Suigetsu, whom she is the nastiest to):

And this is how Karin is around and towards Sasuke:

 

She does have her 'dere' moments; but those are far and few in-between. She isn't less feisty towards him just because she loves him. Neither does she care whether he likes what he is seeing or not; this is how she is, period.

 

 

Sasuke has also never, ever been rude to Karin the way he was to Sakura. And while Sasuke not mincing his words can and did hurt Sakura's feelings, Karin is a different matter altogether because her attitude is nearly the same as Sasuke's. So Sasuke's personality has no negative effect on Karin's, which automatically makes them more compatible. There are no emotionally damaging  dynamic side-effects when it comes to SK. Plus, by the time Karin was introduced to us she already had Sasuke's full acknowledgement, which is another thing that marks a difference in the foundations of their respective dynamics. 

 

There is also the fact that Sasuke and Karin have a bridge that Sasuke and Sakura never had: Karin is also the sole survivor of a slaughter. While Sakura tried to, she ultimately could never quite understand Sasuke (which isn't her fault at all). Karin doesn't have this issue here because she did go through a similar situation.

 

And SasuKarin also ties in nicely with quite a few of Kishi's recurrent themes - including having the dynamic that he seems to prefer, aka the "rough woman that is tender to the guy she loves". Not to mention that the fact that Kishi made it so that all Karin wants is to see Sasuke "smile" again is the typical way in which he portrays selfless love; which is a far cry from how I personally perceived P1 SS.

 

The role they played during the Darksuke arc, authorial-intent wise, also said a lot IMO. And on that subject, it's quite telling that the only negativity that SasuKarin has had so far came from that arc; meaning, it took Sasuke going Dark and becoming "unlike the Sasuke Karin has known" for there to be any in the pairing. But aside from that, Kishi has never portrayed SK in a negative light; which, again, can't be said for SS. 

 

Sorry, it came out long anyway 

Edited by Kanae, 26 April 2014 - 02:13 AM.

[Gojira]

I don't really recall Suigetsu joking that they wanted to hook-up with each other (though its something I likely missed)

I always thought Tobi's comment about Karin being his favorite was referencing Taka in general, she wasn't necessarily his favorite member just one of the people he chose specifically for the group.

[Kanae]

^ I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Probably because I'm sleepy haha.

 

But if you mean that you thought that he was talking about Taka in general; no, the comment was explicitly about Karin

 

"That girl [Karin]… it was good to bring her here... she's useful, and Sasuke specifically chose her as his favorite..." (cr; On3word @ NF)

^ Tobi's line word for word.

 

If you meant though that Karin is his favorite member out of Taka, then that's just what I meant, too. Point is, Kishi made sure to state it.

 

As for Suigetsu's comment, it's an implication that was mostly lost in translation (though Viz's translation - that he wants to "break them up" - does sort of capture it); in the raw (Chapter 574) Suigetsu uses a term that, when employed for people, means the two in question are "about to hook up". We have a list of third-party commentary on SasuKarin that lists the translations as well as the raw, in case you're interested. 

Edited by Kanae, 26 April 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I like it because it seems like parallel of NS

whereas Sakura supports Naruto in everything he does

Karin supports Sasuke, and is loyal to only him now (whereas she was loyal to Orochimaru but is willing to attack Kabuto and fight Orochimaru if it meant saving Sasuke)
 

 

I understand what you're saying, but the issue I have with that is I don't consider parallels development. Kishimoto can parallel SasuKarin to NaruSaku to kingdom come, it doesn't make it a developed pairing that deserves or warrants equal standing and importance to NS. Frankly, I just find Kishimoto's overt use of parallels an annoying copout. Parallels have their place in storytelling, don't get me wrong. They are useful in drawing connections in relationships between characters and in showing authorial intent, but they don't -- and shouldn't -- take the place of development.

 

^ you know me too well lol
 

My main reasons are here. But it's a pretty long read because it's got pictures and explanations and the likes    to summarize, I believe SS's and SK's similarities are purely circumstantial, while Kishimoto has portrayed their dynamics and foundations fairly differently.

 

Some of the reasons I dislike SS are: Sakura hid her real personality and took a submissive role to him and as such I found SS detrimental to her character, Sasuke was an ass to her more often than not, lack of mutual understanding and respect - all things which give no plateau for healthy and mutual romantic development in my eyes. Which goes hand in hand with the negative portrayal it has had throughout the entirety of part II. All this coupled with the fact that Sasuke never gave her any particular sort of weight outside of the context of Team 7 and that Sakura’s romantic feelings for him (IMO) had very shallow bases. I feel that those things are either not present or even subverted in the SK dynamic.

 

For example: while there's nothing that highlights and individualizes Sakura [from Team 7] in regards to Sasuke (both Sakura and Naruto have got the same type of flashback when it comes to "picturing" SasuSaku, for example, and even during Sakura's confession and post-FoD Sasuke kept thinking about the Team as a whole) there are things that have highlighted Karin in regards to Sasuke (his smile to her in 482, awakening a power for her, Suigetsu saying they're about to hook up, Tobi pointing out that she's his favorite, his apology to her, etc). Then there's their behavior around Sasuke: while Sakura became "child-like" in front of him and even had an inner!Sakura because she didn't feel comfortable voicing her views in front of Sasuke and wanted to get on his good side, Karin is the dire opposite: Sasuke is actually the only person whom she allows to see the whole her, both the rough "tsun" sides and the lady-like "dere" sides. Moreover, while people love to say that Karin is a fangirl; she is actually a tsundere. So that's another big difference in their particular approaches to Sasuke right there, because Sasuke himself agrees that Karin isn't "easy to handle":

 

To give a visual example:

how karin is around suigetsu vs how karin is around sasuke

this is how Karin is around other characters (namely, Suigetsu, whom she is the nastiest to):

And this is how Karin is around and towards Sasuke:

 

She does have her 'dere' moments; but those are far and few in-between. She isn't less feisty towards him just because she loves him. Neither does she care whether he likes what he is seeing or not; this is how she is, period.

 

 

Sasuke has also never, ever been rude to Karin the way he was to Sakura. And while Sasuke not mincing his words can and did hurt Sakura's feelings, Karin is a different matter altogether because her attitude is nearly the same as Sasuke's. So Sasuke's personality has no negative effect on Karin's, which automatically makes them more compatible. There are no emotionally damaging  dynamic side-effects when it comes to SK. Plus, by the time Karin was introduced to us she already had Sasuke's full acknowledgement, which is another thing that marks a difference in the foundations of their respective dynamics. 

 

There is also the fact that Sasuke and Karin have a bridge that Sasuke and Sakura never had: Karin is also the sole survivor of a slaughter. While Sakura tried to, she ultimately could never quite understand Sasuke (which isn't her fault at all). Karin doesn't have this issue here because she did go through a similar situation.

 

And SasuKarin also ties in nicely with quite a few of Kishi's recurrent themes - including having the dynamic that he seems to prefer, aka the "rough woman that is tender to the guy she loves". Not to mention that the fact that Kishi made it so that all Karin wants is to see Sasuke "smile" again is the typical way in which he portrays selfless love; which is a far cry from how I personally perceived P1 SS.

 

The role they played during the Darksuke arc, authorial-intent wise, also said a lot IMO. And on that subject, it's quite telling that the only negativity that SasuKarin has had so far came from that arc; meaning, it took Sasuke going Dark and becoming "unlike the Sasuke Karin has known" for there to be any in the pairing. But aside from that, Kishi has never portrayed SK in a negative light; which, again, can't be said for SS. 

 

Sorry, it came out long anyway 

 

I appreciate you taking the time to give such a detailed response. I wanted to respond to parts of your post individually, but I'm at a loss at figuring out how to do that, so hopefully it doesn't get confusing.

 

I agree completely with your reasons for not liking SS, they are more or less my reasons as well. SasuSaku does not have a good foundation for a romantic relationship and has been consistently shown in a decidedly negative light. Kishimoto illustrates very explicitly that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are not a good thing for her, and that part of her development and evolution as a character is coming to terms with them and finally letting go of the hold those feelings have over her.

 

For the record, I have little issue with SK pre-murder attempt, before that I actually kind of liked Karin and while I didn't ship SK, my feelings toward it were pretty neutral. It's only relatively recent that my opinion of SasuKarin turned negative.

 

SS at least, along with it's issues and detriments, are treated seriously. Sakura reacts to what she has gone through with and because of Sasuke as one would expect a person to, she doesn't just brush it off and she doesn't welcome Sasuke back with open arms. I expect Sakura will forgive Sasuke at some point, but I think he'll have to do something to earn her trust before that can happen. A measly "I'm sorry" isn't going to cut it.

 

By contrast, the handling of SK, and especially Karin, has been atrocious. Kishimoto makes light of Sasuke's attempt on her life, glossing over it like it's not that big a deal. I don't see Karin as a fangirl, but despite her feisty and brash personality, she's been shockingly passive about the fact that Sasuke ran her through with a chidori. I just can't take her behavior or Ksihimoto's portrayal of her seriously and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about.

 

If I were to only look at SK pre- Kage Summit only, I could agree with your assessment, but after that everything seems to go down the drain. I don't see any effort on Kishi's part to treat the pairing with legitimacy and it's hard for me to view it as being preferable to SS, or as being positive by comparison.

 

I do hope I don't sound rude.   It's definitely not my intention and I welcome any counter argument you are willing to give.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 26 April 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[AzureWaters]

 

I understand what you're saying, but the issue I have with that is I don't consider parallels development. Kishimoto can parallel SasuKarin to NaruSaku to kingdom come, it doesn't make it a developed pairing that deserves or warrants equal standing and importance to NS. Frankly, I just find Kishimoto's overt use of parallels an annoying copout. Parallels have their place in storytelling, don't get me wrong. They are useful in drawing connections in relationships between characters and in showing authorial intent, but they don't -- and shouldn't -- take the place of development.

 

 

I appreciate you taking the time to give such a detailed response. I wanted to respond to parts of your post individually, but I'm at a loss at figuring out how to do that, so hopefully it doesn't get confusing.

 

I agree completely with your reasons for not liking SS, they are more or less my reasons as well. SasuSaku does not have a good foundation for a romantic relationship and has been consistently shown in a decidedly negative light. Kishimoto illustrates very explicitly that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are not a good thing for her, and that part of her development and evolution as a character is coming to terms with them and finally letting go of the hold those feelings have over her.

 

For the record, I have little issue with SK pre-murder attempt, before that I actually kind of liked Karin and while I didn't ship SK, my feelings toward it were pretty neutral. It's only relatively recent that my opinion of SasuKarin turned negative.

 

SS at least, along with it's issues and detriments, are treated seriously. Sakura reacts to what she has gone through with and because of Sasuke as one would expect a person to, she doesn't just brush it off and she doesn't welcome Sasuke back with open arms. I expect Sakura will forgive Sasuke at some point, but I think he'll have to do something to earn her trust before that can happen. A measly "I'm sorry" isn't going to cut it.

 

By contrast, the handling of SK, and especially Karin, has been atrocious. Kishimoto makes light of Sasuke's attempt on her life, glossing over it like it's not that big a deal. I don't see Karin as a fangirl, but despite her feisty and brash personality, she's been shockingly passive about the fact that Sasuke ran her through with a chidori. I just can't take her behavior or Ksihimoto's portrayal of her seriously and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about.

 

If I were to only look at SK pre- Kage Summit only, I could agree with your assessment, but after that everything seems to go down the drain. I don't see any effort on Kishi's part to treat the pairing with legitimacy and it's hard for me to view it as being preferable to SS, or as being positive by comparison.

 

I do hope I don't sound rude.   It's definitely not my intention and I welcome any counter argument you are willing to give.

I agree with this.

[merryGOflava]

 

First don't take this personal but do we really need to judge every aspect of the manga ( including and especially the relationships).

At the end of the day if the author wants to write about an unhealthy relationship it's his decision.

We as readers could at least find out what that relationship ( or characters or anything else ) mean for the entire story instead of labeling it based on it's flaws.

 

it says to vote based on how much you like sasukarin and I voted I 1/10 because I don't like it at all.

 

if it said to vote on the possibility of sasukarin happening I would have voted higher.

 

someone asked me why it was unhealthy?

1) Karin lusts for Sasuke

2) Sasuke has hurt Karin

3) Karin overlooks Sasuke's problems and forgives him too easily.

 

I think it's horrible...and not cute at all, but again that's my opinion. I can tell Kishi is most likely going to make sasukarin happen, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

[redragon88]

@BakeNeko-Chan

 

And how exactly has Karin been passive about the situation?

 

Karin still hasn't forgiven him despite his sincere apology (and the deep sincerity of the apology was unfortunately lost in translation). She's happy that Sasuke shows regret for what he did, but at the same time she's too prideful to just let it go, which is why she made that weird face that was a mix of happiness and angry during Sasuke's apology.

 

And in the following chapters when Suigetsu's tries to tease her about liking Sasuke she responds by saying that there's no way she likes some "kittenhead" like him since he stabbed her. She's obviously lying about not liking him, but her pride (as a tsundere) and the fact that she's still mad about being stabbed doesn't let her admit it.

 

If she really was just ok with all of it then there wouldn't really be a need for her to bring up the stab in order to put Sasuke down.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

@BakeNeko-Chan

 

And how exactly has Karin been passive about the situation?

 

Karin still hasn't forgiven him despite his sincere apology (and the deep sincerity of the apology was unfortunately lost in translation). She's happy that Sasuke shows regret for what he did, but at the same time she's too prideful to just let it go, which is why she made that weird face that was a mix of happiness and angry during Sasuke's apology.

 

And in the following chapters when Suigetsu's tries to tease her about liking Sasuke she responds by saying that there's no way she likes some "kittenhead" like him since he stabbed her. She's obviously lying about not liking him, but her pride (as a tsundere) and the fact that she's still mad about being stabbed doesn't let her admit it.

 

If she really was just ok with all of it then there wouldn't really be a need for her to bring up the stab in order to put Sasuke down.

 

Her whole acceptance of his apology (sincere or not, I'm not interested in arguing that) is passive. All he has to say is "sorry" and she starts gushing over him -- in her own unique way that involves a lot of insults. Her reaction is shown in a light that I find intended to be comedic and the situation is not treated with the kind of care such a serious issue as attempted murder should be handled with.

 

Spoiler

 

You say she hasn't forgiven him, but I've seen nothing that truly suggests she holds the murder attempt against him. The comments made about it are played as comic relief -- a joke that the audience seems expected to laugh along at -- and a very distasteful "joke" at that.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 26 April 2014 - 07:20 PM.

[merryGOflava]

 

Her whole acceptance of his apology (sincere or not, I'm not interested in arguing that) is passive. All he has to say is "sorry" and she starts gushing over him -- in her own unique way that involves a lot of insults. Her reaction is shown in a light that I find intended to be comedic and the situation is not treated with the kind of care such a serious issue as murder should be handled with.

 

Spoiler

 

You say she hasn't forgiven him, but I've seen nothing that truly suggests she holds the murder attempt against him. The comments made about it are played as comic relief -- a joke that the audience seems expected to laugh along at -- and a very distasteful "joke" at that.

 

agreed. I liked Karin's resolve to forget about Sasuke when he stabbed her....it showed she had respect for herself. Her being all lovey dovey just because he said "sorry" (didn't mean to stab ya) was just sad......and a regression of her character.

 

I mean....don't we want Sakura to forget about Sasuke for the same reasons?? Why is Karin different? Because she really loves him? No, she doesn't know what love is, if that's the case.

[Kanae]

@BakeNeki-Chan: No worries! You aren't being rude at all. At the contrary!  I completely understand where you're coming from. I understand those who dislike SasuKarin due to what he did to her and also those who stopped shipping them there; at most what I can do is explain my reasons as to why I didn't drop the ship, but I also understand that a lot of them come from simply adapting myself to Kishi's writing formula - which is something no one is obliged to do. So basically, I do get why it's impossible for some to like it due to the stab and I wholly respect that.

My issue lies with those who act like SasuKarin was never positive, has got no foundations, is shallow, is part II SS, so on so forth. Because it often seems that they either skipped over their scenes, or it's just their dislike for their individual characters talking.
 
I'll reply under the spoiler-tag:

reply

 

SS at least, along with it's issues and detriments, are treated seriously. Sakura reacts to what she has gone through with and because of Sasuke as one would expect a person to, she doesn't just brush it off and she doesn't welcome Sasuke back with open arms. I expect Sakura will forgive Sasuke at some point, but I think he'll have to do something to earn her trust before that can happen. A measly "I'm sorry" isn't going to cut it.

Personally, I find the circumstances quite different. Sakura's distrust of Sasuke isn't solely due to what he did to her; it's the consequence of an aggregate of things. When it comes to his attempt of her life, Kishi hasn't actually explicitly shown her thinking about it neither has he made her bring it up to Sasuke. In contrast, until Sasuke's near death, Karin brought it up 3 out of 5 times in which she got panel time. Before that, we got insight into her thoughts in 481, saw her mulling over it in 485 - and the very first thing she did when she saw Sasuke was give him an earful about it.

The only reason why Karin rejoined him without giving him a harder time about it is because Sasuke apologized basically without any prompting from her (though she did keep bringing up what he did even after the apology. This panel is pretty straight-forward when it comes to showing her struggling with herself over the matter). And no, the thing is that it wasn't a measly apology. Moreover, one must keep in mind that Karin can sense his chakra; she would know if he is still dangerous or not, if his apologies were sincere or not, so on so forth.

Karin was there from the very moment Sasuke began his "descent into darkness", so to speak. She saw it happen. It's easier for Karin to draw a line between the Sasuke who went off the deeper end, and the Sasuke she has always known. Sakura, meanwhile, simply cannot know for sure; yet another reason to be weary of Sasuke and his intentions.

But what I truly meant when I said that the circumstances are different, is that Sasuke has explicitly said that he intends to kill Naruto. He has also said he wanted to destroy Konoha, so on so forth. Sakura has also seen the extents to which Naruto is willing to go for Sasuke. We know without question where Sakura's loyalty lies. So her reasons for being on the fence about Sasuke are two-fold; there's much more at stake here, because Sasuke hasn't been on their [Naruto's, Konoha's] side for a long, long while.

That said, I wholly agree that an apology is not enough to make up for what he did (and Karin seems to know this herself, going by the panels I already shared); but just like you say, I do expect Sasuke will have made amends by the end of the manga. It's just a matter of seeing how that's handled.

 

By contrast, the handling of SK, and especially Karin, has been atrocious. Kishimoto makes light of Sasuke's attempt on her life, glossing over it like it's not that big a deal. I don't see Karin as a fangirl, but despite her feisty and brash personality, she's been shockingly passive about the fact that Sasuke ran her through with a chidori. I just can't take her behavior or Ksihimoto's portrayal of her seriously and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about.

I understand what you mean and believe me, I do see where you're coming from. If you ask me, I feel that Kishi realized that he went too far; and as such - while he (at least) did not brush the whole thing off, which would have made me stop shipping SK - he has been trying to treat it more lightly as to not highlight just how awful the whole thing was. Sasuke's character in the Kage Summit as a whole is a giant clusterkitten, IMO, and the whole thing was unnecessary because it never went anywhere. If he had kept Sasuke dark until the end, then sure; but I digress   
 

If I were to only look at SK pre- Kage Summit only, I could agree with your assessment, but after that everything seems to go down the drain. I don't see any effort on Kishi's part to treat the pairing with legitimacy and it's hard for me to view it as being preferable to SS, or as being positive by comparison.

I'd say that the recent chapters are a pretty clear show of effort on Kishi's part on that front, actually  Back in 2007, it was the same thing. Kishi delivers humor through Karin, Taka and SasuKarin until things get serious - and then things like the Killerbee fight, the Kage Summit and the recent chapters happen.

So I personally can't help but to still view it as much preferable to SS because, just as you mentioned above: SS has been consistently shown in a negative light - whereas SK hasn't. And despite what happened, SK does still have a good foundation for a romantic relationship because what they would be trying to salvage was fairly positive pre-Kage Summit. And I, personally, can't apply the same to SS.  

 

someone asked me why it was unhealthy?
1) Karin lusts for Sasuke

And?  You act like lusting for the guy you're in love with is an issue instead of a very good thing. 

 

Won't touch the other two because they've already been addressed, if I'm not mistaken.

 

 

agreed. I liked Karin's resolve to forget about Sasuke when he stabbed her....it showed she had respect for herself. Her being all lovey dovey just because he said "sorry" (didn't mean to stab ya) was just sad......and a regression of her character.

 

I mean....don't we want Sakura to forget about Sasuke for the same reasons?? Why is Karin different? Because she really loves him? No, she doesn't know what love is, if that's the case.

 

It's no regression because Karin never stopped loving him and neither did she start to outgrow him only to have a "slip", so to speak. It's no regression because Karin isn't going back to someone who was consistently an a**hole to her, someone who affected her negatively. She isn't willing putting herself on the receiving end of a dynamic like that; she is back with Sasuke because he is (?) back to being the Sasuke she has always known, someone who always treated her fairly and had a positive effect on her more than once. 

 

And no. I don't want Sakura to forget about Sasuke because of the Kage Summit   I want Sakura to forget about Sasuke because her dynamic with him did affect her negatively even when Sasuke wasn't crazy. I don't want Sakura with Sasuke because of the entire manga as a whole; not because of what Sasuke did or didn't do when he went off the deeper end.

 

On that subject, using the Kage Summit as argument isn't a very good idea IMO because while it would indeed be a very decisive thing in the real world, this is Kishi we're talking about   and he did go out of his way to explain what was going on with Sasuke in 619. So truth be told it's not like his actions during that time will keep anything from becoming canon.  It's everything preceding it and following it that will.

 

And make no mistake; I'm not saying the glossing-over of his actions is a good thing. But that is how Kishi rolls 

Edited by Kanae, 26 April 2014 - 07:37 PM.