
What in blazes is Kishimoto thinking?
#81
Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:09 PM
Whoa. Okay, uh, hi. I've been away from Naruto for 'bout... two years, three years? It's been years since I've even looked at even a pirated version of Naruto, and I have to say that all of this nonsense about Naruto and Hinata and Neji is either stemming from some sort of "power of the ten-tailed beast" (bending the fabric of reality, Orichimaru or Kabuto or whomever is the villain right now putting Naruto through a test of his will and courage a la a fake-out Neon Genesis Evangeleon style), or from Kishimoto's obvious lack of spine to deal with the editor's meddling. Some may argue that it's hard to write consistently for 600~ chapters of anything. No, it isn't; in fact, it'd be easier since you'd have the source material in front of you at all times. You can't possibly screw up something you yourself draw with your bare hands, and write with your bare hands. With enough repetition, you do something over and over (the Naruto series) you'll memorise it flat-out; you'd catch yourself from doing something stupid like this, so it just has to be a fake-out of some kind. It has to be; no one can be this incompetent or spineless.
So, in short, let's all calm down before the next chapter arrives, and I want full reports on what's going on (Heaven knows I won't understand it in the slightest without all of you).
#82
Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:12 PM
NaruHina 160 up, 131 down
A growing pairing from the start of the manga/anime Naruto. Hinata is a stalker who admires Naruto and wants to be just like him. Shes a minor character that gets less screentime than any of the other characters yet they still love her to be with Naruto. The pairing has yet to be canon but by chapter 437 fans thought otherwise. Many NaruHina fans have threated Kishimoto that if NaruHina does not become canon that they will purposely stop reading the manga. The fandom of NaruHina is much more larger in the western hemisphere than Japan. Kishimoto knows nothing of Naruto's fandom in America.
Edit: I bet Kishimoto is afraid of being murdered. Or maybe he already was, and now a diehard NaruHina fan has taken over the manga!!! :o
Edited by Haaky, 28 December 2012 - 05:18 PM.

#83
Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:17 PM
You know why I'm happy but at the same time not happy by the wonderful moments we get form the Anime? I's because at the end of the day even when I acknowledge that the moment was cute, Sakura still loves Sasuke and her feelings for him are not resolve yet, this is the main reason why I prefer that Sakura to find out her feelings for Naruto and how she feels about Sasuke before I get any NS major moment between the two.
Maybe not canon but it has a lot better chance than it did before and currently has better chances at being the end game than NaruSaku at the moment. Also can you really compare Hinata's confession to this? With Hinata's confession, it was just Hinata development. It was her just stating her love and why she loves him then gets owned. With this, she gives him confidence, caresses his cheek, Naruto thanks her for always being there for him(which lets be honest, was she really?),holds her hand and gets ready to fight against the Juubi with her with what seems to be him giving her some of Kurama's Bijuu Cloak. That is NaruHina development. HUGE NaruHina development.
I haven't completely lost hope in NaruSaku but I would be a fool to think that our chances aren't extremely slim right now. I can't tell the future so I do not know if Kishi will give us some moments but in the here and now, NaruHina has the upper hand. And it does not look like Hinata will be pushed to the side lines any time soon.
Edited by HalfStarStudios, 28 December 2012 - 05:20 PM.
#84
Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:19 PM
let me answer this question.
You know why I'm happy but at the same time not happy by the wonderful moments we get form the Anime? I's because at the end of the day even when I acknowledge that the moment was cute, Sakura still loves Sasuke and her feelings for him are not resolve yet, this is the main reason why I prefer for Sakura to find out her own feelings for Naruto and how she feels about Sasuke before we get any NS major moment between the two.
And no you're a very good debater I read your post on other forums, so you most know that If Naruto didn't have time to get over Sakura, then he clearly didn't have time to love Hinata out of the blue, Naruto seemed more like a friend with Hinata and not like a real lover, the romantic atmosphere was not there, non biased NH will know this, since Naruto never stated he loves her too, flashback on her confession or even remember his mothers words about a girl, to consider NH canon.
Pairing does not become canon before the drama is clear, NH did this mistake in 437 NS fans did make it too, but NH fans are doing it again, sadly some NS fans are taking the bait. It's too early to my believe to make a pairing canon and if that was really the point then Kishi could of made it clear that he loves her more and remove Sakura shocked expression.
Making Sakura feel sad about the thought that she might lost Naruto's love for ever, is the same way how Naruto felt when he thought Sakura will never love him.
This will show that they both want to be with each other and not only because it's convenient.
If Sakura is not show to ever be sad over losing Naruto but NS still happen, then it will just be because he was the better man, she needs to go trough the same process Naruto did, to show that she really likes him but she will also want his happiness first.
@Tendo Ryuken NS fans and NH/SS fans will never have the same opinion, you behavior it almost like if we NS fans went over to the NH FC to discus why our pairing will happen in the end, While other says that this is a debate forum for NS, I find it rude and arrogant to behave like this, why preach your NH nonsense if non of the NS fans care, I don't meant to be rude but ask yourself if you really believe that what you doing is OK.
This is fan bias, everyone will believe what the want and you're not God to believe that you can Illuminate the misguided fans to believe what you believe since no one will.
#85
Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:20 PM
Agreed. But then Naruto isn't perfect so I would understand that he would be devastated if one of his personal friends die, though I do not see how that should make him despair. However as forced as it is I;m sure it is only to give Hinata the spotlight for once cause she was never able to help Naruto before. Well except in those Hinata fan service fillers, but the point is Hinata finally has stepped out from being that overlooked shy girl that rarely did anything. This likely to help her stop putting herself down and have confidence to become the heir to Hyuuga.
I would think this is more of a matter of consistency more than anything else.
The family that couldn't be.
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#86
Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:51 PM
Does he really need to state it though? Hinata caresses his cheek, Naruto thanks her for always being there for him, holds her hand and gets ready to tag team with her against the Juubi. I count that as a big NaruHina moment. Even though if it is extremely rushed and forced but hey, this is Kishi's writing. That's just my 2 cents on it.
Maybe not canon but it has a lot better chance than it did before and currently has better chances at being the end game than NaruSaku at the moment. Also can you really compare Hinata's confession to this? With Hinata's confession, it was just Hinata development. It was her just stating her love and why she loves him then gets owned. With this, she gives him confidence, caresses his cheek, Naruto thanks her for always being there for him(which lets be honest, was she really?),holds her hand and gets ready to fight against the Juubi with her with what seems to be him giving her some of Kurama's Bijuu Cloak. That is NaruHina development. HUGE NaruHina development.
I haven't completely lost hope in NaruSaku but I would be a fool to think that our chances aren't extremely slim right now. I can't tell the future so I do not know if Kishi will give us some moments but in the here and now, NaruHina has the upper hand. And it does not look like Hinata will be pushed to the side lines any time soon.
I know what you meant and trust me you're 100% right, but wasn't this the same event that happen when Sai gave Sakura that guilt trip speech, I mean after we got Naruto's feelings reaffirmation and the fact that Sakura was finally planing to do something about Naruto's feeling, many NS fans already called it canon.
With Hinata confession it was the same, people say that when Naruto returned from Pain he will remember Hinata's sacrifice they will hug and the pairing will finally be canon.
I will not deny that Naruto initiating the holding hands wasn't a great moment, but why give Hinata all of what she wanted so early? and far away of the end of the Manga right in front of a 10 tail that is killing out all the alliance and not after the war? Why not resolve Naruto's feelings for Sakura and Hinata?
At this moment NH has 75% of chances, while NS only haves 25% but because of NS history NH can be shattered, with there is someone else, why because Kishi never made it clear that he was over Sakura, Naruto personality and his never give up attitude, the fact that he has never seeing another girl the same way he sees Sakura, because NH happen 2 minutes after Neji die, Because Sakura doesn't know it was Naruto and not Sasuke who complemented her, because Naruto said that he will only makes his feelings known to her only after he saves Sasuke. In other words the pairing drama between Naruto has not being resolved yet, while at this time it can be used has target to make the main character stop hiding what they feel for each other.
Trust me I can be wrong but I really feel that Hinata character will be use to give Sakura that push to accept her feelings for Naruto, while she would not make a move, we all know that selfless love will always win over personal desire and Hinata fan girl mode and Naruto lack of Romantic acknowledgement just proved that Hinata still see him as Idol and Naruto still see her has friend, no doubt NH status of possibility just sky rocket, but it also make it vulnerable to be shatters only because it was pushed to hard before the other drama was resolved.
Edited by Don-kun, 28 December 2012 - 05:56 PM.
#87
Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:11 PM
This whole chapter felt forced. It felt so fake and forced.
From a writing stand point, it is a good move. It is the kind of story writing that creates good moment like these, but with that being said timing also plays a part and this has been just horrible timing.
What feels the most forced is Naruto losing hope from the death of the friends around him. I am not talking about being emotional, but the fact that Naruto was so willing to give up despite constantly being told that he isn't the only one fighting.
I mean, Kishi are you trying to make Naruto stupid on purpose? He has been told many of times from the Pein Arc on that people would die and that pain will be constant, but also told him not to give up. Itachi told him the same thing. Neji said the same thing too. As several other characters throughout this manga. Even Obito told him. How could you not prepare for your friends and people to die? You are in a war. You can't go to war and not expect some casualties to occur. That's just insanity.
Not only that, but even when so many people have told Naruto to not give in to pain, he does anyway and it takes Hinata to snap him out of it. Really?
Kishimoto has not only been giving Sakura the shaft, but has also been giving Naruto the shaft too. He has undermined Naruto as the hero as well just so Hinata got to play the hero just this once. And Neji, he sacrifices his life and Hinata got most of the credit. She got credit for everything everyone else has done. This is not even making up stuff, she has maybe done two important things in the manga and Naruto is made to believe she has done everything.
You know what? This scene should not have been given to Hinata. It shouldn't have been given to Sakura either. You know who it should have been given to? Shikamaru. You know how perfect that would have been? Shikamaru who becomes the form of logic to Naruto like Kishi said he was going to be to him as well? But no, again we get a forced scene just so Hinata can have screen time and feel important. Even now the NH fans don't care about the plot of the story as much as they do about their pair getting the scene.
Kishi, you need to take a lesson from Karin Traviss. THIS is how you do a death scene
I expect Naruto to get angry. So angry that he goes on a rage, blood drunk, as he always does. Not lose complete control, but just be this bad ass for one moment. Instead he shames himself and his character just so Hinata can have her moment.
This type of scene should have been saved to when Sasuke died. Not Neji. Not to say Neji death wasn't important or he wasn't a good character, but that kind of reaction to a death should have been saved to the end with Sakura.
Posted for truth! To be honest, I've been worried ofr a while of how the writing in Naruto's declined so much in this arc. It lacks a lot of what Mr. Kishimoto's really good at and it makes me just wish he would end the manga now since it feels like NOTHING can salvage this clusterf*ck of a mess at times. It's just sad when such a great manga has declined to this level. He obviously is just catering to the over abundance of NH fans out there to get them to shut up, in spite of the fact you think he'd remember how Sakura feels for Naruto and also Naruto for her! But nooooooooo...
I felt he was declining on some developement already as is; like trying to make Shikamaru too much like Asuma rather than his death inspiring Shikamaru to become a BETTER ninja of his own merits and learn to not think it's all up to him and to realize he will make mistakes but has to learn from them rather than just harden up to the point if someone else dies that he'll crack.
Sasuke has been a bit better, but he still is rather childish in not seeing the idea that Itachi chose what he did of his own merit. Right now, I'm half tempted to just read Naruto half-heartedly 'cause what's the point of Kishimoto-sensei won't even put any real effort into his work to make it shine?

And nothing else has happened with them, as if Naruto hates her for saying she loves him and bullsh*t like that. T___T So it's why I give up reading this anticipating something good, guys... I won't give up on NS< but I give up on Kishimoto-sensei making the manga any better if all he's gonna do is B.S. like this week's chapter was without thinking of his characters and the depth he'd given them before, or having them try to be themselves rather than anything else. Didn't he also say that Naruto might succeed where Jiraiya failed? He helped Nagato, saved the village, and yet he's not gonna get Sakura's love? WTF?!
Anyhow... I better shut up before I drive myself to commit ritual seppuku.
#88
Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:39 PM
If someone is trolling, note a mod. (Dissenting opinions are not necessarily trolls.) Otherwise follow the lead of the rest of posters after that comment: be mature and move on.
Do us all a favor and close this damn thread...for the better of it eh?
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#89
Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:44 PM
Same here!
I mean just look at the name of the thread.
Its just negative stuff in here.
All the stuff discussed here, can also be discussed in the debatte thread.
#90
Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:47 PM
I mean just look at the name of the thread.
Its just negative stuff in here.
All the stuff discussed here, can also be discussed in the debatte thread.
I disagree. The debate thread is usually the appropriate place, but with the release of a chapter as monumental as this (this is a NaruSaku site for pete's sake), I think this subject deserves its own thread. And I wouldn't be too hard on the negativity (though I agree that people should watch their language). A lot of us are pissed and need to vent. Maybe close this thread after we've got it all out of our system!
#91
Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:50 PM

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#92
Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:57 PM
On a more on topic note, I'm beginning to think Kishi, as of part 2, has always had a problem keeping characters on the right... levels. Thinking back to part 1, it seemed as though he was able to balance the power between characters and no character had to be brought down to let another shine. If a character was brought down to let another shine, it was for a legitimate reason (For example, to show how absolutely powerful and ruthless Gaara was, Lee had to be ...destroyed)
I feel as though Hinata has already had her moment to shine (when she finally confessed and stood up against Pein, although I still feel it was stupid). Neji just died.... wouldn't it have been a better idea for Lee and Ten Ten to come to the scene? Wouldn't it have made more sense for Ten Ten to slap some sense into Naruto and tell him not to waste Neji, her dear teammate, sacrifice by moping around?
Actually, it would have been even better if that fierce Naruto that walked into Nagato's hiding spot with a fierce and strong attitude returned again to face off against Obito who just did something so terrible. I was indeed shocked that Naruto was giving in so easily. Added onto that, I'm surprised how Hinata's generic repeated "Don't give up because we're here" speech was able to recharge him so easily. (Though, I suppose Kurama helped too)
But seriously, why aren't other characters getting attention? Why did Kishi have to kill Neji in this manner? It was very cheap to use his death and Hinata just seems to be using his body as a base for her own advances. Instead of saying "His hand is so big and warm", it should have at least been, "For you, Neji" or something not so cheesy because I suck. But something about Neji, I know it's war, but they got over him WAY too fast.
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#93
Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:04 PM
NaruHina 160 up, 131 down
A growing pairing from the start of the manga/anime Naruto. Hinata is a stalker who admires Naruto and wants to be just like him. Shes a minor character that gets less screentime than any of the other characters yet they still love her to be with Naruto. The pairing has yet to be canon but by chapter 437 fans thought otherwise. Many NaruHina fans have threated Kishimoto that if NaruHina does not become canon that they will purposely stop reading the manga. The fandom of NaruHina is much more larger in the western hemisphere than Japan. Kishimoto knows nothing of Naruto's fandom in America.
Edit: I bet Kishimoto is afraid of being murdered. Or maybe he already was, and now a diehard NaruHina fan has taken over the manga!!! :o
I choose to wait, it all depends on what the next chapters are going to show.
I've seen this a lot of times on this manga,
Part 2 started with
NS(begining until bridge) - SS(sasuke reunition) - NS( training) - NH(group to search for sasuke) - SS ( sasuke's fight for deidara) - NS(minor moment but wanst NS) - NH(Pain's Arc) NS(Thankyou and Sakura's confession) - SS ( Sasuke's meeting/Lover-nin) - NH(615) - (?) - (?2) - (?3) - (Canon Pairing/Open Ending/Naruto's death).
Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 28 December 2012 - 08:11 PM.

#94
Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:57 PM
#95
Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:00 PM
#96
Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:01 PM
Come on guys. Nothing is ever canon in manga until the final chapters. It happens all the time in most every manga you can think of. There are swerves, things to make you feel someone else is going to end up with the protag and so forth. But nothing is confirmed until the end, because they want any drama going as long as possible. Keeps people reading.
Seriously, this happens every single time I come on here and, whoops, seems I returned when a moment for the other pairing happened. Everyone has a tiny rain cloud over their head, yells, gets pissed and despairs because holy crap she caressed his cheek so it clearly means its over and hopeless and the other pairing is canon because... uhh. It must have happened at least nine times now that I've been around to witness, not taking into account whatever happens while I don't check in here.
Would everybody just friggin relax? Enjoy whatever moments come and of course you'll get annoyed at anything thrown out there for another pairing, but as far as shipping goes... just stop with the hysterics. Nothing is canon in most manga until two people kiss, almost always at the end. That's the romantic payoff for most of these things and of course you'll see it at the end, not half or even three quarters of the way through.
I will agree that the mangas writing went off the deep end, but that's nothing new from me; I've been saying that for years.
Edited by dl316bh, 28 December 2012 - 09:03 PM.

#97
Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:05 PM
He shared a deeper bond with Gaara, IMO. His obsession for Sasuke irks me. It was better when he went after him to keep his promise to Sakura.
It's getting stupid. 615 just took the cake. Hinata's a side character; she should be getting the same treatment as Kiba or Chouji, not taking Sakura's place.
I'm only going to keep reading the manga for Obito/Madara, because they're the only characters that have their act together. Despite what people may say, I find Obito to be a very good character. That's the only reason I partially enjoyed this chapter.
My jimmies are so rustled, man. He's destroying his characters just to give Hinata development. I mean, Neji died for that.
The Obito/Rin and Naru/Saku parallel doesn't even seem like it's going to come up anymore. There was so much potential for this arc, but it's all gone.

Oh well. Off to the land of fanfiction.

Edited by swagosaurus, 28 December 2012 - 09:06 PM.

#98
Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:07 PM
Come on guys. Nothing is ever canon in manga until the final chapters. It happens all the time in most every manga you can think of. There are swerves, things to make you feel someone else is going to end up with the protag and so forth. But nothing is confirmed until the end, because they want any drama going as long as possible. Keeps people reading.
Seriously, this happens every single time I come on here and, whoops, seems I returned when a moment for the other pairing happened. Everyone has a tiny rain cloud over their head, yells, gets pissed and despairs because holy crap she caressed his cheek so it clearly means its over and hopeless and the other pairing is canon because... uhh. It must have happened at least nine times now that I've been around to witness, not taking into account whatever happens while I don't check in here.
Would everybody just friggin relax? Enjoy whatever moments come and of course you'll get annoyed at anything thrown out there for another pairing, but as far as shipping goes... just stop with the hysterics. Nothing is canon in most manga until two people kiss, almost always at the end. That's the romantic payoff for most of these things and of course you'll see it at the end, not half or even three quarters of the way through.
I will agree that the mangas writing went off the deep end, but that's nothing new from me; I've been saying that for years.
Nope just some NH and SS trolls who the mods allow them to post here.

#99
Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

#100
Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:16 PM

Actually, Toasty mentioned on DA that this was a narrative feint on Kishimoto's part. So taken in that light, that this is a false plot line basically, you have to think that he hasn't lost his mind at all! And a few other people have mentioned here that it wouldn't make sense for the pairing to be confirmed before the big climax/ending. Which means that by putting Hinata out there so soon, it almost guarantees that she won't be the main pairing.
Exactly! All you have to do is piece this together. Makes perfect sense.
1. Notice he pretty much states the obvious. We all know that Hinata loves Naruto but there's soooo much ambiguity with Naruto and his feelings for Hinata. Even after all that's just happened, it's still up in the air. He's just painting it to make it look pretty but really, he's being quite cautious with his wordings here especially when it comes to Naruto. After all that's just happened, if NH were the end pairing, why in the world wouldn't he just go with it now.
2. He's pretty much shafted Naruto and Sakura's interactions with one another. We're only left with reaction shots from Sakura with no dialogue. That too is very ambiguous because we don't even know why she's making these faces. We can only assume. We don't even get any dialogue when it comes to her thinking about Sasuke in the tent after finding out that the guy had a crush on her. She's definitely not proud of it, and where's the resolve? I mean, Naruto is determined to bring him back and ultimately, regain a comrade, so why isn't Sakura the same, even after leaving it all up to Naruto once again? Doesn't she have faith that Naruto can save him, or is it because she's QUESTIONING HER LOVE FOR HIM AT THAT MOMENT? He's not the guy she knew, and he's certainly not the guy who's been there for her "all this time"

3. Sasuke will NEVER love Sakura. Sorry to say, but it's not gonna happen. Dude hasn't thought about her in that light at all. He tried to kill her without hesitation 3 times. Nuff said. If any pairing is dead IMO, it's SS.
So basically, Hinata confesses and her feelings are known. Sakura hugs and confesses but with her confession came a lot of backlash because she lied about Sasuke and how she didn't care anymore so we're left with a small rift between Naruto and Sakura. Kishi then proceeds to leave that up in the air after things are cleared up between the two of them, and he starts feeding NH some moments but that's still up in the air because Naruto's feelings are STILL uncertain after all she's done for him. He doesn't acknowledge her love at all, and this pretty much proves he's dense because she already was ready to die for him during the Pain arc. He's acting like this is new. LOL Anyway, sure, he acknowledges her more now but that doesn't mean he loves her at all.
And I just want to dig into Sakura's head right now. I hope she gets a good push. I hope she's jealous, and I hope she takes some freakin initiative because as I've said before, I feel that if at least one of these guys likes the other, NS is it.
I'm done ranting.


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