87 replies to this topic

[merryGOflava]

The moment Sasuke defected to Orochimaru, cooperating with people who had just recently attempted to destroy Konoha and cripple Suna and lending them his power, he committed treason. The moment he punched his fist through Naruto's chest, he committed attempted murder.

He aided a terrorist organization by attempting to (and believing he had succeeded in) abduct a citizen of a foreign nation who posed no threat to him for the sake of power and killing one of that nation's citizens, causing an international incident. He attempted to invade an international summit in order to assassinate a leader (whether he deserved it or not is irrelevant) and he then killed neutral people (samurai) and attempted to kill MULTIPLE leaders of various villages.

He has expressed a desire to kill every man, woman, and child in Konoha.

So no, his hands are NOT clean. What's more, you act as though attempted murder and intent/conspiracy to commit mass murder in what can only be described as terrorism are not crimes.

"He's NOT evil because he hasn't killed anyone! He may have shoved his fist through Naruto's chest and tried to stab Sakura and Naruto repeatedly, but he didn't succeed so he's not evil! Since when is trying to murder people who love you isn't evil, anyway? They're in the way of his goals; it's their fault that he tried to kill them."

Then Sasuke attacked and tried to abduct Bee. "Well, Bee is a good-for-nothing douche. Who cares? Oh, and Sasuke didn't succeed in aiding a terrorist organization in creating a weapon that will put the whole world under a genjutsu (except in light of recent events in the manga, it turns out he did), so it doesn't matter. It also doesn't matter that he did all this just for power that he ended up never getting in return."

Then Sasuke killed J and a bunch of samurai. "He's NOT evil because he hasn't killed anyone IMPORTANT!"

Then he stabbed Karin. "It was self defense." Then he tried to get Sakura to kill Karin, as Karin listened helplessly. "self defense." Then he tried to kill Sakura. "self defense, and he didn't actually succeed so it doesn't matter!"


Credit to Gaawa-chan From NF edited for better words choice and Zero profanities.

i know what he did. all I'm saying is, unless he kills someone important like..kakashi or one of the konoha 11 (or the kages) then it doesnt matter how much he threatens people hes not gonna die a villain. but i could go all day about it............buts its just my opinion XDDD

he could die doing something cool......though.....but i think (my opinion) hes gonna live :3

besides naruto said either they both die or both live.........sooo im guessing (hoping) sasuke lives

Edited by merryGOflava, 26 August 2012 - 02:39 AM.

[Don-kun]

i know what he did. all I'm saying is, unless he kills someone important like..kakashi or one of the konoha 11 (or the kages) then it doesnt matter how much he threatens people hes not gonna die a villain. but i could go all day about it............buts its just my opinion XDDD

he could die doing something cool......though.....but i think (my opinion) hes gonna live :3

besides naruto said either they both die or both live.........sooo im guessing (hoping) sasuke lives

Denial merry, denial I don't blame you after all you love his character so it cannot be helped.

Edited by NS means logic, 26 August 2012 - 02:50 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

No, I am not putting all of the blame on the Hokage. I am putting the primary share of the blame on the Hokage because, advised or not, it is his command that sets the troops in motion

I am not even going to respond to the rest because right here alone is where the whole contradiction starts. You are not blaming the Hokage, but you are blaming the Hokage.

Also, one last thought. Do you really think Danzo was that trust worthy? I laugh if you did. Sai showed the seal on his tongue forbidding him to talk about Danzo and his plans. I wonder why he would do such a thing unless he had something to hide even from his own leadership.

I also love the idea that Sarutobi, who was AGAINST the massacre, had the power to order the massacre, but didn't have the power to stop it? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You would think that all he had to say was "No" and the massacre would never would have happened. So either Danzo is a liar or Sarutobi is a terrible leader.

If the Hokage is the absolute power of authority, then the first time he said "no" is when everyone should have shut up and did nothing. If the advisers kept pushing him to say yes, then it's their fault.

If a person in command does not represent the will of the people, then there powers in play that will strip him of his command. Until that time, his power is to be respected. That is how a government works, and that is how a military heirarchy works. The Uchiha were eliminated at the official command of the Leaf. As a collective, the Leaf is responsible for the death of his clan, whether it was called for or not. And I know that if you were in his position, you would not be declaring that your family deserved to die.

I don't think Obama is doing the will of the people, but you don't see the people rising up to strip him of his power do you? Yeah there are powers in play, but who is going to enforce them? His power is to be respected? Again, see there is something I just don't get. If his power is so grand and magnificent, then how come he couldn't stop the massacre from happening? Who has the power: the Hokage or the will of the people? If the Hokage does what he wants, he is a tyrant, but if he has to do everything the will of the people want, then he has no real power...he just does what he is told. Sounds like the Hokage has no power at all.

Corrupted governments can and do exist in the real world, kid. Doesn't matter how many so called "powers" you have in place. Laws only exist if you have the power to enforce them.

Did the village even know of why the massacre took place or were they just kept in the dark and told that one person betrayed everyone? According to Itachi, he publicly took the blame and the people weren't informed of any of the real reasons why it took place. Even Sasuke didn't know of it and wasn't supposed to know, but found out anyway cause Tobi told him.

There was no "troops" it was one guy. (Maybe two, if Tobi helped kill them.)

No, the Leaf is not responsible of the death of the clan. The Leaf LEADERS and the Uchiha Leaders are responsible for the deaths of the Uchiha clan. Remember, the Uchiha clan was wiped out cause they were going to start a war. Otherwise, the plan would never would have even been thought of. And Leaf people had no clue of any of it. The Leaf villagers even felt sorry for Sasuke because of it seeing as he was the last one left.

Okay, I'll humor you and say "Yes. The Hokage ordered the massacre," it still doesn't give Sasuke an excuse to kill the innocent. It's not justifiable. If the leaf villagers knew that the massacre was in plan and the village didn't want it to happen, would Sasuke still be justifiable? Unfortunately, the villagers were kept in the dark as well. Its the same logic as Itachi killing the Uchiha babies. If you think Sasuke is justified in killing the innocent leaf villagers, then Itachi was justified in killing the Uchiha babies simply because their parents wanted to overthrow the government and start a war despite the fact that babies know nothing.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 31 August 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yes, they did. And that's where the politics of it come in. Do you think Sasuke was the only child of the Unchiha who was too young to know anything about this? How many children do you think died by Itachi's blade that night? Do you think the powers that be actually gave him expressed permission to spare his brother? Did the leaders of the Leaf bother to disclose the truth to Sasuke so that he wouldn't live his life based on a total lie? Do you think they did this because it would be better for him to hate Itachi than to hate the village responsible for his family's death and become a future threat?

This is the why the black and white concept of good and evil needs to be removed from situations like this. If your entire family was murdered in cold blood by your government on the grounds that they were terrorists, or potential terrorists, and you were too young to know anything about it, I seriously doubt that you would remain a loyal patriot. Especially not if that same government fed you the lie that it was done by one of your own family, and that it led to you killing the one you loved most.

He killed Samurai who attacked him, ninja who attacked him. He killed nobody who didn't already intend to kill him on sight. That is what war is about. That was the point of Pain's whole diatribe, remember?

Oh rly?
do a research about anachronism.
trying to compare actual governments with a feudal japan system makes me laugh.
2-> so for you sasuke is the victim?
the samurai's were protecting the kages that were having a meeting, no one is allowed to enter there sasuke knew that the samurais would attack him so why he kill them the answer is he's evil, "ninja who attacked him", well why he did not give up on bee and let them take it? no he wanted to kill them, he's evil and u are trying to give a reason for sasuke to do this, you say that his clan is innocent when it's not, everything has a punishment, they committed treason first, the uchihas wanted to have more privileges that the other clans of konoha, in japan feudal system you have to put clans into balance if you dont know what a feudal system is, go play crusader kings 2 then you start understand this, the hokage was put into a difficult decision, he had to do something and the time was short if he allow the uchiha to rebel, he will have a war, if he give the position they want the other clans will likely to rebel too what type of decision will you make as a ruler?

if we accept your logic so it's like hey woman are drunk so we can rape them because they are drunk.
the problem sasuke only see that everyone is wrong but he's not he thinks that what he's doing is right and eveyone else is a fool.