182 replies to this topic

[Gravenimage]

True that. How's the game so far? I know it's worth getting a PS3 for but my budget won't allow it right now

Without saying spoilers the game is awesome the battle system is similar to the one from Tales of Destiny. Love the characters and the story there's drama, humor some romance but that will be all. In fact I left my review for the game on the "rate the last game you played" thread.

[AzureWaters]

We're going with that argument AGAIN? for the LAST TIME Kishimoto decides everything is NOT any argument to why he would change his mind on pairings. Yes he could do it, but but does that count as story telling? Does that not mean he is flushing all of his work down the drain? If he wanted to just change his mind for no reason he might as well announce every Naruto CRACK PAIRING under the sun. Naruto should marry his "dead" mom, He should marry INARI'S mom, He should Marry Tayuya (dead), He should marry Temari, He should have a harem! See what I did there? When you say He can "change his mind" He can LITERALLY change his mind and do crazy s**t like that. He doesn't even need to think! It literally means Kishimoto can do anything with his's manga, and it may not end with the pairing you'd want to say the least. Kishimoto is a realistic writer and puts thought into his story; anything he's drawn up to now has a reason and if he wanted to change his mind he'd actually show it, no? And he'd develop it it more. So If you say he can change his mind, that is not an argument my friend, that is just saying "I wish he'd change his mind". Use solid evidence from the manga to support your arguments, not vague "what if " circumstances. Now I'm not antagonizing you. Only saying that Kishimoto's is the author and can do what he wants" means nothing.

You completely missed my point. Kishimoto can decide what he wants to do with his manga. You can take context clues and decide for yourself where you think his story is going, but no one can be absolutely sure. My message was that no one should make their own opinion absolute fact before Kishi finalizes anything; be it pairings or something else. Basically, everyone has the right to think what they want, since nothing romance wise is truly closed yet, and they should not be bashed for it.

Btw, take a chill pill.

[Phantom_999]

Well you're sounding like he is randomizing everything. No author that is passionate about their story does that. Saying "Kishimoto can decide what he wants with his manga" is saying there IS no story to it. He can spoof about it however he pleases. Is that the case? Is this Sponge bob or the Simpsons where every episode is random and has it's own canon? Things can be interpreted in different ways but that does not change what the author is writing. Again I did not say he couldn't change his mind but so far he never did, And the way the story is going I don't think I have to second guess everything that is shown so far. I just wanted to point out saying the creator can do as they please is no argument because Unless they don't care about the story or don't take it seriously. What they already write defines how the rest should turn out because they put their effort into laying it out. Kishimoto's said specifically he already decided the ending. How to get to it he's still making up. And I AM calm now thank you.

Edited by Phantom_999, 20 March 2012 - 01:12 AM.

[AzureWaters]

Well you're sounding like he is randomizing everything. No author that is passionate about their story does that. Saying "Kishimoto can decide what he wants with his manga" is saying there IS no story to it. He can spoof about it however he pleases. Is that the case? Things can be interpreted in different ways but that does not change what the author is writing. Again I did not say he couldn't change his mind but so far he never did, And the way the story is going I don't think I have to second guess everything

No...I'm not. He can decide what he wants to do with his manga, and its not as if anything is set in stone right now either.

Edited by AzureWaters, 20 March 2012 - 01:35 AM.

[Gravenimage]

No...I'm not. He can decide what he wants to do with his manga, and its not as if anything is set in stone right now either.

Still with the way he has developed NS and has made parallels supporting the pairing I think it's already set in stone. If he hasn't bother making Naruto turn a 180 and fall in love with Hinata for absolutely no reason whatsoever (like Potter did with Ginny). Then he's not going to bother now because obviously NH isn't the pairing he is going for or the fact that in Sakura's debut ch 3 he makes Naruto introduce her" a pretty girl that I like" and when he introduces Hinata at the chunin exams arc he says" a weird, dark girl". That pretty much sums it up, along with Kushina's final words to Naruto to" not to fall for weird girl find someone like your mother" Kishi is slapping his pairing of choice in the reader's face that even the most simple minded person can see it. There's more proof that Naruto deeply loves Sakura so much he's willing to let her be with Sasuke for her to be happy and he would rather suffer heartbreak while been happy for her at the same time, this is canon because it's all over the manga. Now here's point of pure logic since Naruto is the protagonist he deserves to have the girl he has always love, he's the hero he should have the girl and that's the path Kishi has taken since he started writing his manga.

[ciardha]

No...I'm not. He can decide what he wants to do with his manga, and its not as if anything is set in stone right now either.

He did decide- before he even wrote chapter 1. He knew exactly how he was going to finish the story when he started the story and has said so in multiple interviews,from during part 1 to his most recent one. Oh, and another point, Japanese manga writers usually tell their editors how the story will end (if they have an ending conceptualized like Kishimoto did) when they get the final go ahead for the story. The ending has already been set, was before Kishimoto drew the first panel for publication.

Kishimoto isn't going to change course randomly like you think he is- this isn't a western superhero comic, with it's characters owned by a corporation where the writers have no ownership rights to what they write (that's long been explicitly stated in the contracts that writers sign at Marvel and DC) and where they can be taken off a book at an editor's whim. Naruto is a Japanese shonen manga. Kishimoto is the sole creator and essentially the sole "controlling shareholder" now, and all rights will revert back to him once the story is completed.

Kishimoto has made it obvious in the manga from the very beginning the pairing is narusaku. He has developed narusaku since the start of part 1 and continues to develop that pairing, including obvious parallels with other significant couples to Naruto and Sakura. The last he did so in such a screamingly overt way with Minato and Kushina that no one who actually reads the manga should have the least doubt the ending is narusaku.

[Dragunov]

Henceforth, its only a matter of when, not if, NS goes canon.

[James S Cassidy]

No...I'm not. He can decide what he wants to do with his manga, and its not as if anything is set in stone right now either.

I have to agree and say this argument is kind of shallow. You can basically use this argument for any and all stories ever written. You can even apply this to real life history. "History is written by the victors." Some history books have people thought to be the Heroes, yet they themselves have done just as bad things if not worse. Any writer who writes can control how a story is written. It's kind of a jerk-ish argument if you ask me. Like getting into discussions about video games or consoles and that one guy keep saying "PCs are the best ever." Yeah, just because it is true, you don't need reminding of this fact every time you want to discuss a game.

The author decides what happens, but the bigger question is "Why and for what purpose?"
Any respectable writer does not just write something without purpose. Otherwise, they would not be a good writer. A story needs to have flow and causality. If you do this, then this must happen (Whether it has a great impact or a minor one, everything has a purpose). Of course, some writers use a cop-out and say "It was all a dream," but then this is why they call it a cop-out. It's not exactly a popular choice in writing.

With Kishimoto, we respect him as a writer. Even if we don't always like how he handles some things, we do respect him to say "Well, he might have a purpose later on" and most of the time it does pay off. Even if it might be much later in the story. We HOPE that all he has written about Sakura, Naruto, and Sasuke actually meaning to it. We don't want to see a 360 in the story where by some "cosmic coincidence", all the characters end up right back where they started personality wise. Development is the car. Conflict is the motor. With the characters being the key.

Sakura possibly still having feelings for Sasuke might be there, but I have a feeling it over between them. She was in love with the Sasuke in Part 1. Not the Sasuke now. Since he has changed so dramatically, I doubt she can keep these feelings especially after what he has done to her. We can also throw the "She will fall right back into love if he comes back" as when she saw him again, she wasn't too happy to see him. That alone gives a hint that him just coming back is not enough to change her mind. Not only that, but combined with the fact that whenever she needed someone she always looked to Naruto. Whether it be support or courage. He was always the one that guided her even if she didn't have the answers.

I know there are facts even before the Pein, but I think for me, the Pein arc was where I finally believe it was canon. When the whole village was crushed and when Sakura knew that someone needed to be the hero, she didn't look for Sasuke. She looked towards Naruto. She screamed for Naruto to come back and save them all because she knew only he could. If she still had feelings for Sasuke or some weird obsession with him, do you think she would have prayed for Naruto to return? I know some will say it something like "Well she knew Naruto was the most powerful" or something like that, but that one scene spoke so much to me personally that I even look at scene when I have doubt.

We saw how emotional she got when Sasuke left. We saw that she had an even bigger reaction when Naruto got hurt or when she thought he was going to die whether it be through the Akatsuki or because of Kurama taking over. I wonder how she would react when she actually thinks he dies. I wonder how broken she would be.

I wonder, what SS fans would do if at the battle between Naruto and Sasuke when they both hit the floor. Sakura runs over to Naruto and not Sasuke.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

So this is the welcome I get huh... Let's see... I missed read the manga... I'm a Sakura basher... WTF is going on here! My straight, forward opinions is not a summay from a fanfiction! I've already gave my statement... And go ahead and be deluded to think Sakura has lost every romantic affection she has for Sasuke. By all means, this is a NS-FC. I do not have anything against it. There's no point in further for me debating here. Flaming means nothing to me, I put it up almost ever update for all my fanfics. Nevertheless some telling me that I lack comprehension of reading the manga, and that I'm a Sakura basher... such disrespectful! O-boy, I thought this fc was going to be nice here, despite my lack of grammar and comprehension skills.

[Jenskott]

Kishimoto isn't going to change course randomly like you think he is- this isn't a western superhero comic, with it's characters owned by a corporation where the writers have no ownership rights to what they write (that's long been explicitly stated in the contracts that writers sign at Marvel and DC) and where they can be taken off a book at an editor's whim. Naruto is a Japanese shonen manga. Kishimoto is the sole creator and essentially the sole "controlling shareholder" now, and all rights will revert back to him once the story is completed.

Thank God for that!

Other than that... Sasuke has been very clear about who he wants killing: everybody in Konohagakure. He has stated very clearly that is how he wants to restore his clan (slaying everybody he thinks slighted the Uchiha), and that statement includes his former teammates. I do not see what is ambiguous about it.

[Soul]

So this is the welcome I get huh... Let's see... I missed read the manga... I'm a Sakura basher... WTF is going on here! My straight, forward opinions is not a summay from a fanfiction! I've already gave my statement... And go ahead and be deluded to think Sakura has lost every romantic affection she has for Sasuke. By all means, this is a NS-FC. I do not have anything against it. There's no point in further for me debating here. Flaming means nothing to me, I put it up almost ever update for all my fanfics. Nevertheless some telling me that I lack comprehension of reading the manga, and that I'm a Sakura basher... such disrespectful! O-boy, I thought this fc was going to be nice here, despite my lack of grammar and comprehension skills.

Don't worry man, This fc is nice. I got treated a bad way but guess what? I don't really care if someone bashed me or whatever. And check out the NH fan that joined the fc. He got bashed the worst way and he still continues. Just don't take it personally from them. I'am sure they didn't mean it.

[Darth Krypt]

AzureWaters is right. You guys can actually give Konoha’sCrimsonFox a nicer reply than what has been given. After reading his posts, I have no idea how you guys come to the conclusion about him. He’s an NS fan, who sincerely thinks Sakura still having feelings for Sasuke. For your info, I think that "Sakura no longer has feelings for Sasuke" is not concrete yet. This was AzureWaters’s point. It isn’t an established fact in the manga. Not yet. I just don’t like the fact that you putting down other people’s opinions so harshly and act all superior accusing the guy of not reading the manga and all.

No it's not rude at all- it's stunned disbelief that anyone who even made an attempt to read the manga would ever misread it to such an extreme fashion- that lack of reading comprehension is just plain beyond belief. If you actually read the manga those opinions would be completely impossible, that kind of opinions only come from Sakura bashers who are anime and fanfiction only fans. They have no connection to manga canon.

This is arrogance at its highest level. Just because you don’t understand someone’s way of thinking you go label him as someone who failed in comprehension? And also in previous pages you were bragging how you scored high in reading comprehension as a child. So what? Because of that you can tell people they lack comprehension skills because their interpretation is different than yours?

I want to make this clear before some people also label me as a Sakura basher or someone who didn’t read the manga. I have absolutely ZERO doubt that NS is the end pairing. However, I also believe that Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke was never dealt with ever since he went rogue. Konoha’sCrimsonFox mentioned this as well. Her feelings are the ONLY obstacle that NS has to overcome. No, Hinata was never an obstacle for NS because NH never had any development because it does not concern Naruto or Sakura but Hinata. SS however involves Sakura even though its one sided. That’s why I believe like I’ve said many times in other threads that her feelings for Sasuke would really need to be dealt with DIRECTLY and in not the kind where we have to interpret behind the lines or the character’s facial expression.

In other words, Sakura needs to verbally declare that she no longer harbor any feelings for Sasuke and really mean it unlike in her shaky confession to Naruto. That is why the confession didn’t go well, because of Sasuke. This clearly shows that Sasuke is an obstacle to NS. Only after that clear declaration can "Sakura no longer have feelings for Sasuke" be established as FACT. Right now, there’s only indirect interpretations which I think is not enough. But hey, this is just my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me. You can think whatever you want.

Edited by Darth Krypt, 20 March 2012 - 10:55 AM.

[AzureWaters]

AzureWaters is right. You guys can actually give Konoha’sCrimsonFox a nicer reply than what has been given. After reading his posts, I have no idea how you guys come to the conclusion about him. He’s an NS fan, who sincerely thinks Sakura still having feelings for Sasuke. For your info, I think that "Sakura no longer has feelings for Sasuke" is not concrete yet. This was AzureWaters’s point. It isn’t an established fact in the manga. Not yet. I just don’t like the fact that you putting down other people’s opinions so harshly and act all superior accusing the guy of not reading the manga and all.




This is arrogance at its highest level. Just because you don’t understand someone’s way of thinking you go label him as someone who failed in comprehension? And also in previous pages you were bragging how you scored high in reading comprehension as a child. So what? Because of that you can tell people they lack comprehension skills because their interpretation is different than yours?

I want to make this clear before some people also label me as a Sakura basher or someone who didn’t read the manga. I have absolutely ZERO doubt that NS is the end pairing. However, I also believe that Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke was never dealt with ever since he went rogue. Konoha’sCrimsonFox mentioned this as well. Her feelings are the ONLY obstacle that NS has to overcome. No, Hinata was never an obstacle for NS because NH never had any development because it does not concern Naruto or Sakura but Hinata. SS however involves Sakura even though its one sided. That’s why I believe like I’ve said many times in other threads that her feelings for Sasuke would really need to be dealt with DIRECTLY and in not the kind where we have to interpret behind the lines or the character’s facial expression.

In other words, Sakura needs to verbally declare that she no longer harbor any feelings for Sasuke and really mean it unlike in her shaky confession to Naruto. That is why the confession didn’t go well, because of Sasuke. This clearly shows that Sasuke is an obstacle to NS. Only after that clear declaration can "Sakura no longer have feelings for Sasuke" be established as FACT. Right now, there’s only indirect interpretations which I think is not enough. But hey, this is just my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me. You can think whatever you want.

Thanks for getting my point. And I really think some of you guys need to be more humble. NaruSaku isn't canon right now, and to be honest the overconfidence is shallow at best. You guys panic at the slightest mention of Sasuke or Hinata. That doesn't sound like a group who is so sure of themselves.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Thanks you three, but like I said. Flaming and bashing me means nothings to me.

That is exactly what's keeping NS from becoming canon. Those lingered romantic feelings she has for Sasuke is what I'm afraid for Naruto. (i'm going to get off topic again with this one) Kishi in numerous ways bashed Naruto's character from birth till now. His parents had to die in front of him, and the man who was responsible for it is fighting Naruto. The Sadaime Hokage made Naruto the to be treated as a hero of the village. Instead he got the opposite. And to add insult immensely, kishi plotted Sakura's character abhorred Naruto, while sometime in the academy. He developed a crush on the same girl who hates his guts all to her believe that he was an obstacle, and a person who was trying to ruin her life, and received brutal, but none harmful punishments. But she makes it up in part two. Jiraiya his godfather was killed, by Pain/Nagato who happens to be an Uzumaki. A blood relative killing a father figure. Naruto however doesn't know Nagato is related to him by the Uzumaki heritage. Also the brotherly affection he has for Sasuke has perhaps caused him the most pain next to Sakura. And now the very last person of his bloodline (Tsunade) has a fifty-fifty chance of dying. In other words, it's not the physical experience that is bashing Naruto. But those whom he held dearly within are causing him so much pain. The pain that he may lose love ones. the pain that he may have to sacrifice the life of the one he calls brother to save the world. The pain of that he is willing to give up his heart to make Sakura a happy girl. This is all the reason of a ploy to bash Naruto's character. While he simply could have let Sakura out of his heart and bring Sasuke back to her doing it as a friend, and find new love... but no...

I think his sudden power ups and heroic efforts in the past are not enough to make the suffering of a life time.

(back on topic)

But Sakura has the destiny to change that. She's been the one to make Naruto for who he is now. A man, not some idiot who still does pranks. Sakura was there for him in places where Kushina or a order sister could have done for him. She doesn't need to be pair up with Naruto, but realize the confession she'd made had ruined every chance for SS. She confessed and possibly made herself look like a fool stated naruto doesn't know what she thinks and what's on her mind, when clearly we the audience knows. Sakura has issues, I can only see two ways. Like what DK said, Sakura must verbally declare that she no longer loves Sasuke and move on (doesn't have to be Naruto), or she continues her fantasy quest to become the mother of the Uchiha Clan, and lose her reputation among her peers and fans. And that is why NS is not canon, but the good news is its not a one sided pairing like NH and SS.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 20 March 2012 - 12:58 PM.

[Nate River]

Tone it down a bit, or the Administration is gonna come marching in.

The "Administration" has been aware of this since it began yesterday morning. It's been visited off and on by no less than four mod/admins. To this point, it's not been necessary for us to intervene.

I'd like to think everyone here is mature enough to handle this without our intervention.

Don't prove me wrong.

(back on topic)

Speaking of that...this thread is already way of it's original topic and is morphing into a general debate thread.

[ciardha]

I wonder, what SS fans would do if at the battle between Naruto and Sasuke when they both hit the floor. Sakura runs over to Naruto and not Sasuke.

Doesn't even think about Sasuke to boot. We've already had a foreshadowing of that in the manga, and of course there is the one shot short OVA that Kishimoto and his friend Higashiyama (who also cowrote the Shippuden movie 5 novelization- which had a stronger narusaku theme than the actual movie did) co-scripted.

[Soul]

Doesn't even think about Sasuke to boot. We've already had a foreshadowing of that in the manga, and of course there is the one shot short OVA that Kishimoto and his friend Higashiyama (who also cowrote the Shippuden movie 5 novelization- which had a stronger narusaku theme than the actual movie did) co-scripted.

Hey about that, Will this happen in the manga? I wish it does.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Thanks for getting my point. And I really think some of you guys need to be more humble. NaruSaku isn't canon right now, and to be honest the overconfidence is shallow at best. You guys panic at the slightest mention of Sasuke or Hinata. That doesn't sound like a group who is so sure of themselves.

NaruSaku isn't canon yet, you're right. However, it's very far ahead in the race to become canon. NH will have to do a lot of catching up (SS is already dead pretty much, if we assume that Kishi will be consistent with his characters. Sakura still harbors confused feelings for Sasuke, but she clearly isn't happy about them. It's also clear that Sasuke doesn't have/never has had romantic feelings for Sakura), catching up that is unlikely to have a possibility of happening.
I don't know who you've seen here, but not nearly all of us "panic" at the slightest mention of Sasuke or Hinata. I know that I don't, at least. There are others I know that don't as well, but I'm unsure as to whether they'd want their names called, so I won't specify.

[redragon88]

Hey about that, Will this happen in the manga? I wish it does.

Even if it doesn't happen like that in the manga the fact that the people who created the OVA went out of their way to create such a tender moment between Naruto and Sakura just for them not to be together by the end of the story feel like it leaves a terrible taste in your mouth.

NH and SS fans can lie to themselves as many times as they want but that moment by the end was 100% meant to be romantic. A friendship moment between a boy and a girl would never in any shape or form involve one of them caressing the cheek of the other in such a way. Do you think that if it was Kakashi holding Naruto that he would touch his cheek like that? OH HELL NO!

Also remember that apart from the mouth the cheek is the place you kiss someone the most to show romantic affection and simply touching it can also bring about the same effect.

[James S Cassidy]

Doesn't even think about Sasuke to boot. We've already had a foreshadowing of that in the manga, and of course there is the one shot short OVA that Kishimoto and his friend Higashiyama (who also cowrote the Shippuden movie 5 novelization- which had a stronger narusaku theme than the actual movie did) co-scripted.

I am going to disagree with that statement. To deny she doesn't think about Sasuke is a blantent lie. Even Naruto knows she still thinks about him. The difference being is that he does not know that she doesn't think about him in a happy light. Nor does she think about him in a romantic light. I am sure she still thinks of the tragedy of losing a teammate which some forget this fact as well.

I don't know who you've seen here, but not nearly all of us "panic" at the slightest mention of Sasuke or Hinata. I know that I don't, at least. There are others I know that don't as well, but I'm unsure as to whether they'd want their names called, so I won't specify.

Well, I am pretty sure you are not talking about me. lol I am just kidding.

I want to stay out of arguments myself and treat everyone with equality. Perhaps people got off on the wrong foot and things were said that shouldn't have been. Me and you, zacrathedemon, know this all too well. AmIrite?lol

It's best to just kiss and make-up. Even if you are right, you don't need to be jerks about it. I think both Ciardhra and Konoha'sCrimsonFox should make-up whatever happened here. If I may say you're both wrong and both right. And yeah, not all members here will go postal at the drop of a "Sasuke" or "Hinata." It's pretty tame here than say a general Naruto forums, but sometimes heated arguments occur.