237 replies to this topic

[Fenris]

What if Hinata was just speaking in terms? As in being equals with Naruto, not actually holding his hand. Seems a bit out there.
My reaction to the panel was that Hinata was saying, "NARUTO, we're GOING to be together. No matter what you say, WE'RE GOING TO."

[CloudMountainJuror]

What if Hinata was just speaking in terms? As in being equals with Naruto, not actually holding his hand. Seems a bit out there.
My reaction to the panel was that Hinata was saying, "NARUTO, we're GOING to be together. No matter what you say, WE'RE GOING TO."

"Forever...and ever...and ever..."

[KoolKat]

"Forever...and ever...and ever..."

ewww creeper alert

[Kamina-Yoshi]

Sees mega-drama.

Now I remember why I stopped reading Naruto; Kishi enjoys himself too much with trolling. 8'D Have to give him mad props, and since this was posted in the spoiler thread but not here, I think I'll take the opportunity.

Edited by Kamina-Yoshi, 08 February 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[KnS]

I'm not surprised some people are getting excited about this chapter, however it's not progress for either NaruHina or NaruSaku.

This was my impression as well. Kishi is very clever at touching upon the shipping aspects without actually advancing them at all, and this chapter felt like more of the same to me.

It's easy to get wigged out from the pressure and competition of shipping wars, but it's worth keeping in mind that this story is called Naruto. Not Hinata, not Sakura, not Sasuke. It is Naruto's feelings that will be the overriding factor in the shipping stuff, and to our knowledge as readers, Naruto has always loved and still loves Sakura. There has been zero evidence that his feelings for Sakura have changed.

Hinata's feelings for Naruto may be sweet, but I personally don't see how they are relevant to the dynamics and conflict Kishimoto set up between Team 7 from the start. The love triangle that frames everything is Naruto-loves-Sakura-loves-Sasuke -- and that's what Kishi has to resolve.

Sakura has been torn between Naruto and Sasuke from the beginning, and that's likely to drag out until the end. Kishi has shown his other characters getting over big emotional hurdles to learn, mature, and grow beyond the personal failings they had when they were first introduced. In fact he just recapped them for us in this chapter. But we have yet to see Sakura fully clear her biggest hurdle: Naruto vs. Sasuke in her heart. Sakura is the heroine, and she still has to make the choice that will prove it. If Naruto didn't love Sakura, her struggle wouldn't matter much to the story.

and there is the possibility of him leaving the issue open-ended when the manga ends. In which case, all pairing FCs would be doomed to argue until infinity.

Yeah, and I can see him being tempted to do that. Because no matter which way he goes now, some of his fans are going to be seriously angry. I will always believe that Naruto/Sakura was (is) Kishi's intention, and if it ends up N/H it will be because he caved to the pressure of Hinata's popularity -- which to me is inexplicable.

Although Sakura's statement is not fully decorated with romantic tones as Hinata's, if you see the intend towards Naruto's well-being, I'd say Sakura's has so much more weight.

I agree. Sakura's relationship with Naruto, their mixed up individual AND mutual feelings for Sasuke, all their history...I think it's way, way, way more complex and meaningful to the story than what Hinata feels.

Sakura is no longer questioning his love. She loves him. She knows it now. His goals are her goals. She's going to do this for him and for the goals that they share (love of Konoha), and she's wants everyone to support him. (...) Oh yeah, and I agree with ciardha's post a few pages back: Sakura definitely is following the model of love relationships put forth in the manga. Strong women who support their men in partnering roles.

Yes to all of this. We only have to contrast and compare the nature and depth of the two girls' reactions in this chapter. Inoichi's message of morale inspires Hinata to daydream about her personal desire to hold Naruto's hand when he's taken care of everything and the war is over. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but it struck me as a pretty immature and self-involved thought for the circumstances. Meanwhile Sakura intends to fight as Naruto's partner, and is focused on helping him achieve his cherished goals. Huge, HUGE difference.

As for the rest of the chapter? I loved seeing Tobi sweat and try to convince himself that Naruto's awesomeness doesn't matter. And Sasuke...ugh. How will his powers stack up to Naruto's now? Will Sasuke and Itachi cross paths yet? There's so much going on! Great stuff.

More than anything, I want to know how Naruto is going to deal with Sasuke when the time comes. I want to see this happen, but at the same time I'm not really ready for this story to be over.

[Don-kun]

i honestly thought hinata had gotten over naruto but i guess i was wrong. but i guess hinatas speech didn't bug me that much because just cause she said her little naruto-kun speech doesn't mean naruhina is canon. seriously, i think naruhina fans are getting wayyyyy too excited about a small thing. i mean sure i would get happy over something that was ns similar to that but i wouldn't be like OMG NS IS SOOOO CANON like some(or most of them) naruhina fans out there. but besides that, did anyone else think sasuke looked pretty awesome in the last panel? and how pretty sakura looked when she was talking about naruto?

Showing as much NH as possible(especially just Hinata's fixation on Naruto) is the easiest and cheapest way to keep the status of the pairings as ambiguous as possible and the fans as pleased as possible.

If he shows Naruto showing an interest in Sakura then all NH fans can stop clinging to their hopes that Naruto "maybe" will have a change of heart now that he knows that Hinata is in love with him and what GREAT a girl she is. It would make it too obvious that he will never give up on his love for her(Sakura). Ironically since said confession there were basically no NS moments at all to keep NH fans hopes somehow. NH fans would be obviously very angry about Naruto still being intersted romantically in Sakura and Kishi fears their wrath as he fears the wrath of all pairing fans.

If he shows Naruto showing a clear ROMANTIC interest in Hinata then it is settled: NH is canon and then we have either SasuSaku or SasuDeathNaruSaku fans would be obviously not pleased with this.

If he shows Sakura being still way too interested in Sasuke then that kills NS and makes NS fans angry while at the same time not making it clear if NH becames canon(Sakura still loving Sasuke wont necessarily make Naruto fall in love with Hinata). And obviously SS fans may not be THAT happy as long as Sasuke is completely uninterested in Sakura.

If he shows Sasuke being interested in Sakura then....LOL OOC Sauce?
I would kinda love to see the pairing mayhem(and not only) that a lovey dovey Sasuke could cause...the ultimate asspull

If he shows Hinata being interested in Naruto though then that is just keeping the pairing from being completely dead. As long as Naruto does not fall for her the pairing is living on Hinata's feelings alone. If she stops loving him its all over folks. That is why as long as Naruto is not responding to her feelings, showing Hinata madly in love is good as it has no effect on the other pairings and thus is harmless.

As a not so great pairing fan I would prefer MUCH more if Sakura and (especially) Hinata stopped being treated as pairing fodders by Kishi and stood on their feet as girls whose whole life does not revolve just around love issues. With Hinata it is particularly terrible as EVERY single appearance of her in part 2 is focused on her interest in Naruto. There is no longer any stuff with her bond with her clan or any plans for the future. It is all about "Naruto Kun"

Sheesh...

[Phantom_999]

yay naruhina --Click here to view--

Hinata had more panels and space than the rest of the rookies, with a noticeably more personal and undeniably romantic inner monologue, if this isn't Kishi turning on the lighthouse's signal so the NaruHina ship arrives to port safely I don't know what it is.

At the very least, we the NaruHina fans can expect Kishi to provide us with a NaruHina resolution once this arc is over, for those powerful words coming from Hinata's heart also contain Kishimoto's promise for resolution.

Excuse me? --Click here to view--

But how was that Naruhina? I don't see any NARU there. I only see the same old stuff Hinata has been saying for 12 years. Powerful words? Sorry but no, she looks unhappy. That's the thing with NH. There has never, and will probably never be a "N" in NH. There's always been a H, and will always be a H. It's been one sided as hell since the beginning of the manga.

yay --Click here to view--

Yeah I REALLY felt it with what Sakura said. Hinata came off as selfish and almost conceded, while Sakura's came off as "I am never leaving you again." When I read Hinata's. I didn't feel anything. With Sakura's it made my heart leap.

Things are starting to get good and I hope this becomes a blast

Okay Now now Lets actually wait for a ROMANTIC moment before we debate about this. Besides this should be taken up on the Debate thread. Okay So Hinata was just admitting that she's been trying to catch up to Naruto the same way he's been trying to catch up to Sasuke, and holding his hand means she wants to stand as his equal. Sakura means that she wants stay with Naruto and protect him and she also included everyone else so she may not have meant it romantically but It's definitely shows she's thinking about him. Anyways It's not the time fir romance yet, lets wait until there are actually romantic scenes/ conversations to discuss it okay?

Edited by Phantom_999, 08 February 2012 - 10:39 PM.

[Catwho]

Re: Hinata's hand hold line

I actually have this image in my head of the very last panel in the manga being everyone, all the characters, running across a big field, with Naruto grinning in the middle, and Hinata on one side and Sakura on the other side, both holding his hands... but also holding the hands of everyone else in the row.

Thus, Hinata gets what she really wanted -some equal footing with Naruto (and by extension everyone else in the village) on her own merits.

[James S Cassidy]

So we all agree that it is either a NH moment AND a NS moment or none at all.

Both girls are now resolved to be with Naruto no matter what happens. Now, we see what Naruto wants. That's the remaining factor and so far, from what we can tell, Naruto has not changed his mind about who he loves or has not made any indication that he loves Hinata. So for now, everything has remained constant.

It's funny seeing Tobi begin to have a sense of fear of Naruto. It always reminded me of the 300 movie with Naruto being Leonidas. Except I hope without the everyone dies at the end thing.

Sasuke looks even more demonic now then he did before. There is NO way in hell he is loves anyone now. Not Sakura, not Karin, no one. He just wants revenge and that's all he can think about. That's all he lives for. Kishi really did make him a direct opposite to him. Naruto becomes a god and saviour, Sasuke becomes the devil and destroyer.

This is going to get very interesting.

Okay Now now Lets actually wait for a ROMANTIC moment before we debate about this. Besides this should be taken up on the Debate thread. Okay So Hinata was just admitting that she's been trying to catch up to Naruto the same way he's been trying to catch up to Sasuke, and holding his hand means she wants to stand as his equal. Sakura means that she wants stay with Naruto and protect him and she also included everyone else so she may not have meant it romantically but It's definitely shows she's thinking about him. Anyways It's not the time fir romance yet, lets wait until there are actually romantic scenes/ conversations to discuss it okay?

I never said anything was romantic. In fact, I even denied any "moment" there might have been for any pairing, but Sakura's speech was more heartfelt than Hinata's. She don't just include herself, she included everyone. Everyone has Naruto's back, which means she knows Naruto had a hard life of being rejected. She knows everyone is willing to support Naruto especially herself. "Not just me..." This is truth and it's there in black and white. I feel this also pertains to what kind of romance people like. Do you like the girl who falls head over heels and wants to get the guy to notice her or the two unexpected lovers who learn that they truly do love each other through all that they have been through.

Now that you mention it, you say Sakura didn't mean it romantically, but maybe that IS how she is romantic. She used to be all about herself, but selflessness is no greater love factor. You will do anything for the other person no matter what the cost. Not just for your own sake. So in a way, she is being romantic, it's just not the romance people expect. It's a subtle romance that is more real to real life situations.

When she said it to Sasuke, no doubt people saw it as romantic (even when she lied to him the second time), but when it comes to Naruto it's not? It's up to the reader, but just saying that if you consider one way you have to look at all ways.

I don't really know why this belongs in the debate because it is about the chapter itself. Yeah, it can go there, but it can go here too. We did it in Sakura's confession, we will do it here as well. In my opinion, discussions about the chapter should go here and can later go to the debate thread when the next chapter comes out. Also the fact that I am talking about this scene.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 08 February 2012 - 11:17 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

So we all agree that it is either a NH moment AND a NS moment or none at all.

Both girls are now resolved to be with Naruto no matter what happens. Now, we see what Naruto wants. That's the remaining factor and so far, from what we can tell, Naruto has not changed his mind about who he loves or has not made any indication that he loves Hinata. So for now, everything has remained constant.

It's funny seeing Tobi begin to have a sense of fear of Naruto. It always reminded me of the 300 movie with Naruto being Leonidas. Except I hope without the everyone dies at the end thing.

Sasuke looks even more demonic now then he did before. There is NO way in hell he is loves anyone now. Not Sakura, not Karin, no one. He just wants revenge and that's all he can think about. That's all he lives for. Kishi really did make him a direct opposite to him. Naruto becomes a god and saviour, Sasuke becomes the devil and destroyer.

This is going to get very interesting.

Should I be a kitten and make a Dark Knight reference to that?

[FoolishYoungling]

Another thing, I was sort of when Hinata said 'I'll hold your hand".
At least be sure that the guy WANTS to hold your hand, for Pete's sake! Again, it shows how she thinks of only HERSELF.

She thinks of having babies with Sasuke too.

[James S Cassidy]

Should I be a kitten and make a Dark Knight reference to that?

Why so serious?

[CloudMountainJuror]

Why so serious?

Oh, it is on now. This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

WHERE ARE THEY?! WHACK! WHEEERE AAAAARRRRE THEEEEY?! RAWR!

[Fenris]

I am so confused.

[Super Boom]

Ha ha ha, I understand now. Kishi was trying to compete with Bleach, which started its final arc this week, so he pulled out the shipping guns. Well played, sir.

Anyways, Hinata's portion of the K-11 speech was definitely more romantic than Sakura's, and was also longer, but for some reason it doesn't bother me. It could be possible foreshadowing, if Kishi suddenly decided at some point in the past few years to go in that direction, but I think he's already reached the point of no return as far as pairings go. Some of the Naru/Saku development, hints, and parallels can be ret-conned into being platonic interaction, but a lot of it's really hard to go back on. Naruto's feelings for Sakura have been portrayed as completely selfless for the majority of the series, and seeing him give up on her would seem awkward at this point.

As for Hinata's speech itself, I actually liked it. Part of the thing that's always bugged me about Naru/Hina, even when I shipped it (don't worry, it was a while ago-I was young and reckless ), was that it was never a pairing between equals. It was always just Naruto with a cute shy girl following him around. For someone like Kishi, who seems to prefer outgoing female characters, pairing his hero up with a girl like Hinata just wouldn't seem natural. Now, though, it definitely looks like Hinata has the resolve to stand next to Naruto as an equal, and not just as a hero-worshipper. To be honest, if Kishi intended to show the Naru/Hina pairing in this light from now on, I wouldn't even mind seeing an N/H ending, in and of itself. The only problem I'd have with it would be how Kishi shows Naruto giving up on his selfless feelings for Sakura, which, as I mentioned, would really seem unnatural at this point in the story.
Of course, probably a bigger problem I'd have with an N/H conclusion would simply be that it would make S/S more viable, which is the pairing that really tends to irk me. But that's another story, I suppose.

Now, like a lot of people have said, Sakura's speech, though it wasn't necessarily romantic, definitely seemed stronger to me. Hinata's was important too, and she also echoed her intentions to help Naruto out, but outside of the romantic stuff, I thought Sakura's speech to help Naruto definitely seemed to resound the loudest. Hinata's speech may set the tone for the whole K-11 thing, given how it was first one to be shown, but, as readers, we see Sakura's speech last, and thus that's the note the whole spiel ends on. So while Hinata's speech shouldn't be ignored, Sakura's speech is definitely more important than some fans will be giving it credit for (though not on this site obviously ).

Anyways, outside of the shipping stuff, I really don't have too much to comment on. Tobi's confusion was pretty cool. It seems like part of him is aware that Naruto is a serious threat to his plan, but his pride won't let him admit it. Other than that, it really seemed like a motivational chapter for everyone. I'd be willing to bet that this song will be playing when the anime gets to this chapter.


Also, did anyone else notice how Neji didn't get a speech? He was running right next to Hinata while she was giving hers, but I don't recall him saying anything. Did his speech get absorbed by Hinata's? Poor guy. I guess he had the misfortune of being with one of Naruto's potential love interests while Kishi was in Troll Mode.

[Phantom_999]

I never said anything was romantic. In fact, I even denied any "moment" there might have been for any pairing, but Sakura's speech was more heartfelt than Hinata's. She don't just include herself, she included everyone. Everyone has Naruto's back, which means she knows Naruto had a hard life of being rejected. She knows everyone is willing to support Naruto especially herself. "Not just me..." This is truth and it's there in black and white. I feel this also pertains to what kind of romance people like. Do you like the girl who falls head over heels and wants to get the guy to notice her or the two unexpected lovers who learn that they truly do love each other through all that they have been through.

Now that you mention it, you say Sakura didn't mean it romantically, but maybe that IS how she is romantic. She used to be all about herself, but selflessness is no greater love factor. You will do anything for the other person no matter what the cost. Not just for your own sake. So in a way, she is being romantic, it's just not the romance people expect. It's a subtle romance that is more real to real life situations.

When she said it to Sasuke, no doubt people saw it as romantic (even when she lied to him the second time), but when it comes to Naruto it's not? It's up to the reader, but just saying that if you consider one way you have to look at all ways.

I don't really know why this belongs in the debate because it is about the chapter itself. Yeah, it can go there, but it can go here too. We did it in Sakura's confession, we will do it here as well. In my opinion, discussions about the chapter should go here and can later go to the debate thread when the next chapter comes out. Also the fact that I am talking about this scene.

Oh I know I wasn't directing that at you. Though I did quote your comment for another reason..... forgot what. Besides if people are gonna debate whether it was the Hinata or Sakura speech was more authentically romantic, it might as well be done on the debate thread. Besides I thought you were one saying this is a war so romance would be inappropriate, unless it is concern of well being.

Edited by Phantom_999, 10 February 2012 - 12:16 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

I am so confused.

We're making The Dark Knight references

[Phantom_999]

UHHH? "I'm an agent of chaos".

Edited by Phantom_999, 08 February 2012 - 11:59 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Oh, it is on now. This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the internet that, like, Sakura loves Naruto or Sakura gives him a hug nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old Hinata will hold Naruto's hand, well then everyone loses their minds!

Introduce a little NaruSaku. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of NaruSaku. Oh, and you know the thing about NaruSaku? It's fair!

Edited by James S Cassidy, 09 February 2012 - 12:09 AM.