206 replies to this topic

[K9ofChaos]

Simple. Not only did he kill Danzou, who is still a Konoha ninja, he's allied with Akatsuki, the organization that the whole of Shinobi nations is basically fighting against, so he's basically everyone's enemy. Also, he's a missing ninja who also allied with another ex-Konoha ninja, Orochimaru, and endangered the lives of Shikamaru's team during Sasuke's Retrieval. Allying with Orochimaru also implies he must've done some...ethically/morally questionable actions to attain power. He vowed vengeance against Konoha despite Itachi -as twisted as his approach to 'protecting' Sasuke is- sparing Sasuke from the Uchiha clan's dark secret. If anything, Sasuke's tendency to be manipulated like a wind-up toy is a danger to the people around him.

About Sasuke and Gaara, the greatest difference between the two is that Gaara turned himself around, redeeming himself by becoming Kazekage to protect those who used to hate him. Sasuke chooses to fall into darkness and vengeance, he doesn't want to be saved, he just -pardon the reference- wants to see the world (more specifically, Konoha) burn. If he returns to Konoha and things returned to normal and happy, he'd be the biggest karma houdini I've ever seen.

QFT

[Derock]

Simple. Not only did he kill Danzou, who is still a Konoha ninja, he's allied with Akatsuki, the organization that the whole of Shinobi nations is basically fighting against, so he's basically everyone's enemy. Also, he's a missing ninja who also allied with another ex-Konoha ninja, Orochimaru, and endangered the lives of Shikamaru's team during Sasuke's Retrieval. Allying with Orochimaru also implies he must've done some...ethically/morally questionable actions to attain power. He vowed vengeance against Konoha despite Itachi -as twisted as his approach to 'protecting' Sasuke is- sparing Sasuke from the Uchiha clan's dark secret. If anything, Sasuke's tendency to be manipulated like a wind-up toy is a danger to the people around him.

About Sasuke and Gaara, the greatest difference between the two is that Gaara turned himself around, redeeming himself by becoming Kazekage to protect those who used to hate him. Sasuke chooses to fall into darkness and vengeance, he doesn't want to be saved, he just -pardon the reference- wants to see the world (more specifically, Konoha) burn. If he returns to Konoha and things returned to normal and happy, he'd be the biggest karma houdini I've ever seen.

Agree 100%!

Plus if he does return to the Leaf in the end, where's the punishment? WHERE are the consequences of one's actions due to all of the deeds he had done in the past? (Which I hope Kishimoto plans for this at the end of the series regarding towards Sasuke).

[The Tax-Man]

Agree 100%!

Plus if he does return to the Leaf in the end, where's the punishment? WHERE are the consequences of one's actions due to all of the deeds he had done in the past? (Which I hope Kishimoto plans for this at the end of the series regarding towards Sasuke).

As much as that would suck, I have a sneaking suspicion that Sasuke will simply do one good thing and be 'forgiven'.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

As much as that would suck, I have a sneaking suspicion that Sasuke will simply do one good thing and be 'forgiven'.

And that would be the worst mis-handling of Sasuke ever. Of course, Gaara also seemed to have gone through the same thing though.... But then, there's a lot that could happen in the 2.5 years that wasn't shown..

[theorangehokage]

Fruit cups to that D: . No punishment, say wha?! . Well, if naruto gets proclaimed hokage at the time, then you betta believe that there probably wont be any.

[The Tax-Man]

You're right. Since Naruto has to become hokage in the end, and since Sasuke would probably be taken care of in the end, He would probably get less restitution. That's also a reason why I said it.

[ciardha]

Will Sasuke end up being redeemed in some way- most likely, but I don't think it will be back in the village with no punishment. Considering what Kishimoto is doing with Sasuke I think two endings are most likely

a- Naruto finally gets through to Sasuke. Sasuke and Naruto take down Madara together, Sasuke sacrificing his life to save Naruto and the world

b-ditto, but both Naruto and Sasuke live. Sasuke refuses to live in the village and becomes a wanderer working toward his own redemption. He does acknowledge the Team 7 bond to both Naruto and Sakura, and basically acts in similar capacity as Jiaraiya- spying for Naruto (as Hokage). He doesn't feel any loyality to Konoha, but does to Naruto, who never gave up caring about him.

[The Tax-Man]

Will Sasuke end up being redeemed in some way- most likely, but I don't think it will be back in the village with no punishment. Considering what Kishimoto is doing with Sasuke I think two endings are most likely

a- Naruto finally gets through to Sasuke. Sasuke and Naruto take down Madara together, Sasuke sacrificing his life to save Naruto and the world

b-ditto, but both Naruto and Sasuke live. Sasuke refuses to live in the village and becomes a wanderer working toward his own redemption. He does acknowledge the Team 7 bond to both Naruto and Sakura, and basically acts in similar capacity as Jiaraiya- spying for Naruto (as Hokage). He doesn't feel any loyality to Konoha, but does to Naruto, who never gave up caring about him.

a- Maybe. Probably.

b- Again, never happening as long as MS writes. It's not his style.

[merryGOflava]

sasuke shouldnt get out without punishment!!,

although all hes done was threaten ppl or ALMOST kill them.

he did kill:

Orochimaru-but hes evil so who cares

Danzo-also evil, had messed up ideals, someone was gonna get to him sooner or later

Itachi- even itachi predicted he was gonna die by sasuke....and he was akatsuki anyway.

until he actual goes to konoha, and starts killing random pplz hes still redeemable in my book.

nagato was saved and he killed jiraiya (even if he had to die) but like i said sasuke hasnt done anything crazy bad yet.

i find it funny that hes taking out the bad guys for naruto....

[Greed-Sama]

sasuke shouldnt get out without punishment!!,

although all hes done was threaten ppl or ALMOST kill them.

he did kill:

Orochimaru-but hes evil so who cares

Danzo-also evil, had messed up ideals, someone was gonna get to him sooner or later

Itachi- even itachi predicted he was gonna die by sasuke....and he was akatsuki anyway.

until he actual goes to konoha, and starts killing random pplz hes still redeemable in my book.

nagato was saved and he killed jiraiya (even if he had to die) but like i said sasuke hasnt done anything crazy bad yet.

i find it funny that hes taking out the bad guys for naruto....

Attempted murder is just as bad as murder, the only difference being the victim got out lucky. It's simply a happier ending, but Sasuke had the full intent of committing his atrocious acts.

Nagato's redemption came from him sacrificing his life to bring back those who he killed. Of course he couldn't bring back Jiraiya since he died elsewhere besides Konoha.

Sasuke's redemption is better served as a sacrifice saving Naruto. I would feel cheated if Sasuke was welcomed back with arms wide open.

Whether or not Danzo was evil is besides the point, he was still a Konoha ninja, and therefore it was an attack on Konoha. I didn't agree with anything that Danzo was doing, but I wouldn't necessarily call him a villain. He felt that him becoming Hokage was the best for the village and I'm certain that he truly believed it at his core.

[merryGOflava]

Attempted murder is just as bad as murder, the only difference being the victim got out lucky. It's simply a happier ending, but Sasuke had the full intent of committing his atrocious acts.

Nagato's redemption came from him sacrificing his life to bring back those who he killed. Of course he couldn't bring back Jiraiya since he died elsewhere besides Konoha.

Sasuke's redemption is better served as a sacrifice saving Naruto. I would feel cheated if Sasuke was welcomed back with arms wide open.

Whether or not Danzo was evil is besides the point, he was still a Konoha ninja, and therefore it was an attack on Konoha. I didn't agree with anything that Danzo was doing, but I wouldn't necessarily call him a villain. He felt that him becoming Hokage was the best for the village and I'm certain that he truly believed it at his core.

im just saying that he want as bad as nagato so he doesnt really have to die for naruto to get saved. and no attempted murder is NOT as bad as murder no matter how you look at it (especially if your a ninja). sasuke still as a chance in my book.

and just cause danzo believed it was best doesnt make it best. madara is trying to make peace for everyone, by mind controlling them, does that mean its okay?

[Greed-Sama]

im just saying that he want as bad as nagato so he doesnt really have to die for naruto to get saved. and no attempted murder is NOT as bad as murder no matter how you look at it (especially if your a ninja). sasuke still as a chance in my book.

and just cause danzo believed it was best doesnt make it best. madara is trying to make peace for everyone, by mind controlling them, does that mean its okay?

Disagree. If you're a ninja, the consequences of attempted murder and murder would actually be very close in the same, as opposed to America's court system. You would effectively still become a rouge nin, an enemy of the state, and then would be listed in the Bingo Book. Sasuke had the intent, just because he couldn't make it happen.

In other words, you are simply defending him based on his actions and what transpired. If that was the case, those who killed for self-defense or in protection of one another, even though they had good intentions, would no longer be redeemable. Sasuke is trying to kill because he wants revenge. He fell to his own inner darkness, and is causing other people problems. Would it be even worse if he actually did kill someone? Absolutely. But there is no turning back when you betray allies. Karin did not deserved to be tossed aside, I don't care who she was assisting. She was loyal to him. King's are supposed to take care of their pawns.

Sasuke's actions are going to cause the deaths of more ninjas. He is not in isolation. His actions were reckless, selfish, and foolish.

[merryGOflava]

Disagree. If you're a ninja, the consequences of attempted murder and murder would actually be very close in the same, as opposed to America's court system. You would effectively still become a rouge nin, an enemy of the state, and then would be listed in the Bingo Book. Sasuke had the intent, just because he couldn't make it happen.

In other words, you are simply defending him based on his actions and what transpired. If that was the case, those who killed for self-defense or in protection of one another, even though they had good intentions, would no longer be redeemable. Sasuke is trying to kill because he wants revenge. He fell to his own inner darkness, and is causing other people problems. Would it be even worse if he actually did kill someone? Absolutely. But there is no turning back when you betray allies. Karin did not deserved to be tossed aside, I don't care who she was assisting. She was loyal to him. King's are supposed to take care of their pawns.

Sasuke's actions are going to cause the deaths of more ninjas. He is not in isolation. His actions were reckless, selfish, and foolish.

i guess so :o im just going by what could happen in this sort of manga. its not like this is real life. and ppl tend to get saved even though they hurt others. and i am basing off his actions.

[Madz]

"Disagree. If you're a ninja, the consequences of attempted murder and murder would actually be very close in the same, as opposed to America's court system. "

This does NOT apply in the Naruto's world. There is always "attempted murder" in this story, at every corner! It would be ridiculous to draw the line.
And in the Naruto's world, being an "Avenger" is considered as quasi normal, if "attempted" murder was close as murder", the minute that Sasuke proclaimed himself to be an avenger and aiming to kill his brother Hitachi would have been the minute that Kakashi would have jumped at his throat or hand him over to the authorities, because he had been openly claiming his intent to murder Itachi.
Considering old Japanese (and other eastern) stories, I personally see that Kishi has been very careful not to throw Sasuke over the un-redemnable (does this word exist?) side yet. At every opportunity of pushing Sasuke over the non-return limit Kishi has retracted in one way or another (Killer Bee was not caught, Karin was not dead) and he has added two BIG positives on Sasuke (Killing Oro and Danzo). The old japanese stories is VERY different to the modern western stories and the rules should not be applied as same, the forgivable and non-forgivable are NOT same.

[Greed-Sama]

"Disagree. If you're a ninja, the consequences of attempted murder and murder would actually be very close in the same, as opposed to America's court system. "

This does NOT apply in the Naruto's world. There is always "attempted murder" in this story, at every corner! It would be ridiculous to draw the line.
And in the Naruto's world, being an "Avenger" is considered as quasi normal, if "attempted" murder was close as murder", the minute that Sasuke proclaimed himself to be an avenger and aiming to kill his brother Hitachi would have been the minute that Kakashi would have jumped at his throat or hand him over to the authorities, because he had been openly claiming his intent to murder Itachi.
Considering old Japanese (and other eastern) stories, I personally see that Kishi has been very careful not to throw Sasuke over the un-redemnable (does this word exist?) side yet. At every opportunity of pushing Sasuke over the non-return limit Kishi has retracted in one way or another (Killer Bee was not caught, Karin was not dead) and he has added two BIG positives on Sasuke (Killing Oro and Danzo). The old japanese stories is VERY different to the modern western stories and the rules should not be applied as same, the forgivable and non-forgivable are NOT same.

I agree with the Avenger statement. See but they wouldn't consider the death of Itachi, Orochimaru, Sasori, Deidara, Kisame murder.

However the ninja world is a military world. You attack it or even if you plan to attack it and you are considered an enemy of the state. I'm not talking about whether he is redeemable as a person or not, I'm simply saying whether I think he would be redeemable as a Konoha ninja.

He has stated his intentions to attack Konoha and to side with a group who claimed themselves enemies.

[merryGOflava]

I agree with the Avenger statement. See but they wouldn't consider the death of Itachi, Orochimaru, Sasori, Deidara, Kisame murder.

However the ninja world is a military world. You attack it or even if you plan to attack it and you are considered an enemy of the state. I'm not talking about whether he is redeemable as a person or not, I'm simply saying whether I think he would be redeemable as a Konoha ninja.

He has stated his intentions to attack Konoha and to side with a group who claimed themselves enemies.

so what? gaara was on a team to destroy konoha at one point. it was his intentions also. infact gaara had many intentions to kill ppl. even threatened Lee. killed two konoha ninjas to boot. and look at him now. hes naruto friend and kazekage.

[Greed-Sama]

so what? gaara was on a team to destroy konoha at one point. it was his intentions also. infact gaara had many intentions to kill ppl. even threatened Lee. killed two konoha ninjas to boot. and look at him now. hes naruto friend and kazekage.

Very true. However, you are missing two vital components.

1) Gaara was under orders to attack Konoha.

2) Considering that Gaara was the container of the One-Tail, I don't really know if it was "his" intentions. Because you could say the same to Naruto when he was in his "Four-Tails" form and attacked his sensei.

Sasuke is acting out of his own free will. Sure he's being a bit manipulated, but the "genius" should be smart enough to realize it. I'm not bashing his character, I just like to point out that I'm disappointed with him. I liked him as a character in the early parts of Part 1.

[Madz]

It's not clear yet whether Sasuke is acting out of his own free will. Don't forget that Karin has pointed out a NEW, dark, cold aura from Sasuke which was not there before (and he was not so psycho then).
If you are taking the one tail influence for forgiving Gaara to attempt to kill Sakura, Naruto and Sasuke (no, he was NOT given orders to kill these three - he went after Sasuke on his own blood lusted moment), then the same argument would be applied to Sasuke.
As I say - Kishi has not push Sasuke over the non-return limit YET. Does not mean that he will not do it, though. Lets see what Sasuke's next move will be when he make appearance during the war.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Sasuke, but I'm a HUGE fan of Team 7 and of bonds and I side with Naruto here of not giving up on a friend who is in need (even though the crazy guy himself is not aware of it).

[Darth Krypt]

It's not clear yet whether Sasuke is acting out of his own free will. Don't forget that Karin has pointed out a NEW, dark, cold aura from Sasuke which was not there before (and he was not so psycho then).
If you are taking the one tail influence for forgiving Gaara to attempt to kill Sakura, Naruto and Sasuke (no, he was NOT given orders to kill these three - he went after Sasuke on his own blood lusted moment), then the same argument would be applied to Sasuke.
As I say - Kishi has not push Sasuke over the non-return limit YET. Does not mean that he will not do it, though. Lets see what Sasuke's next move will be when he make appearance during the war.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Sasuke, but I'm a HUGE fan of Team 7 and of bonds and I side with Naruto here of not giving up on a friend who is in need (even though the crazy guy himself is not aware of it).

Sasuke's next move would be a fight with Naruto since there is already the build-up before. The same goes for Naruto since the recent chapter shows he realised something is wrong and most probably will be joining the war soon. He will be fighting Sasuke. That is his role in the war. I don't see the point of Naruto fighting anyone else. If that is the case than the series is going to end soon. Unless Kishi adds another main antagonist which I think is not likely.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

It's not clear yet whether Sasuke is acting out of his own free will. Don't forget that Karin has pointed out a NEW, dark, cold aura from Sasuke which was not there before (and he was not so psycho then).
If you are taking the one tail influence for forgiving Gaara to attempt to kill Sakura, Naruto and Sasuke (no, he was NOT given orders to kill these three - he went after Sasuke on his own blood lusted moment), then the same argument would be applied to Sasuke.
As I say - Kishi has not push Sasuke over the non-return limit YET. Does not mean that he will not do it, though. Lets see what Sasuke's next move will be when he make appearance during the war.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Sasuke, but I'm a HUGE fan of Team 7 and of bonds and I side with Naruto here of not giving up on a friend who is in need (even though the crazy guy himself is not aware of it).

So, allying with the enemy of EVERY major Shinobi countries, trying to kidnap the 8-tails, killing Danzo, tossing aside his own partners, endangering the Sasuke retrieval teams, obviously insane, and let's not forget, allying with the enemy of EVERY MAJOR SHINOBI COUNTRIES, and he's still not at the point of no-return? He crossed that when he spat at the face of Itachi's sacrifice and declared Konoha to be his enemy. That 'new aura' is simply the aura of a madman, he's being manipulated by Madara, but he's not questioning what he's doing is wrong, he's simply another crazed Uchiha. Even Naruto himself knows now how deep Sasuke has fallen, he wants this to end, and it'll end on his and Sasuke's death, if Naruto has anything to say about it.

Again, the difference between Gaara and Sasuke is that Gaara managed to turn himself around, he acknowledged what he did was wrong, he's making up for it by undertaking the burden of protecting his country by becoming its Kazekage. Sasuke doesn't care about others, he only wants revenge. If Madara can help him do it, he'll ally with him.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 11 April 2011 - 09:04 PM.