117 replies to this topic

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Anyone else getting an Emperor Palpatine vibe from Old Man Madara? I was hearing Ian McDarmid's voice whenever he spoke. XD

[TerrorKing]

Anyone else getting an Emperor Palpatine vibe from Old Man Madara? I was hearing Ian McDarmid's voice whenever he spoke. XD

I do. I theorized, both in this thread and the previous chapter thread, that Obito is basically the Narutoverse's Darth Vader, while Madara is basically Darth Sidious (aka. Emperor Palpatine).

So far, that doesn't seem all that unlikely. Just like Anakin, Obito was a kind and compassionate boy who only wanted to help people. However, because of a series of unfortunate events, he was eventually manipulated into joining "the dark side" and just like Palpatine, it seemd like Madara has been planning all this in the shaodows for a long long time.

The only part about Obito that doesn't compare well with Anakin is that Tobito seems more apathetic while Darth Vader was more vicious and hateful. In addition, we do not yet know exactly how Obito was turned to "the dark side".

There probably was some manipulation involved, but I think it was more a question of two different world views. Madara claimed that the world was dark and cruel while Obito steadfastly held onto the belief that there was some good in this world. However, after witnessing Kakashi wasting his life away and Rin's possible death, he might have finally given in and adopted Madara's views.

[harry4e]

I don't really want to start this connection just because they are made from the same material. I don't want to consider them the same. I mean, I could make a teapot and a ceramic plate out of clay, but I am not about to say that the plate is a clone of the teapot simply because they are both made out of clay.

Although again, this got me thinking. Obito's Right side was the limbs that got replaced and since then he has lost his right arm on 2 or 3 occasions. Too many to say. We never see him lose his left arm at all. I wonder if he even can grow his left arm back since, from what this chapter shows, it is still his original arm.

Actually that's why I said a Zetsu Type body not a Zetsu body, Madara himself that he attached Hashirama's body to Obito, so that makes half the body Zetsu type, They are both Body's and they are both made from Hashirama's DNA, and they both created using the power of Mazo Statue. Same way as a cup of coffee, there are so many different ways to make it, with milk, without, black, with cream, etc but at the end of the day they are still all types of Coffee.

You do raise a point about the right side, but you are wrong, during the battle with Minato it was his left hand, and if you look at the body bandaged it's his right side and left arm, so I think most of his right side and his left arm is what that got replaced.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I do. I theorized, both in this thread and the previous chapter thread, that Obito is basically the Narutoverse's Darth Vader, while Madara is basically Darth Sidious (aka. Emperor Palpatine).

So far, that doesn't seem all that unlikely. Just like Anakin, Obito was a kind and compassionate boy who only wanted to help people. However, because of a series of unfortunate events, he was eventually manipulated into joining "the dark side" and just like Palpatine, it seemd like Madara has been planning all this in the shaodows for a long long time.

The only part about Obito that doesn't compare well with Anakin is that Tobito seems more apathetic while Darth Vader was more vicious and hateful. In addition, we do not yet know exactly how Obito was turned to "the dark side".

There probably was some manipulation involved, but I think it was more a question of two different world views. Madara claimed that the world was dark and cruel while Obito steadfastly held onto the belief that there was some good in this world. However, after witnessing Kakashi wasting his life away and Rin's possible death, he might have finally given in and adopted Madara's views.

Yeah, it's getting interesting to hear Obito's Fall and Tobi's Rise. I've always considered Sasuke the "Anakin" of Star Wars, but as we're learning, it's actually Obito. I wonder if Kishi has knowledge of Greek tragedies....

[KnS]

I've thought back to Itachi's original comment about Madara (as Tobi), that Madara was just a shell of his former self. And it's ironic that here we have an illustration of a Tobi "shell."

Yeah, the swirly face on that body cannot be a coincidence.

Also, thinking about Kakashi having to fight Obito, Ino-Shika-Sho having to fight Asuma, Jiraiya vs. Nagato, Sandaime vs. Orochimaru, and Minato (unknowingly) vs. Obito — Naruto is going to have to a gut-wrenching battle with one of his most beloved figures to go through the trauma experienced around him and come out a hero on the same scale. Otherwise he is still an untested hero.

Not necessarily a previous-generation battle though, even though the precedent has been set for it. But something heartwrenching. Fighting his way to the his chosen end battle with Sasuke isn't going to cut it. Something that derails everything and makes the original goal obsolete. Like if Sasuke "killed" Sakura in front of Naruto's eyes, and then Naruto had to persevere to save Sasuke, even though he believes his best friend just killed his love, just to spite him. (Of course Sakura would survive in the end.)

But Kishimoto shouldn't spare Naruto of the emotional battles he so readily deals out to the lesser characters. And the looming "Obito vs. Kakashi over Rin" on the horizon only reinforces that thought.

It may depend on how Kishimoto qualifies "something heartwrenching." Naruto's latchkey kid childhood of hatred and isolation, and everything that precipitated it, wasn't exactly free of heartbreak. Kishimoto may think Naruto has experienced enough trauma already.

But personally, I see your point. So far it seems Naruto's path to heroism has been achieved through hard work and persistence, sure, but also -- let's face it -- unrealistically simple persuasion and reconsideration on the part of his opponents. As you say, Naruto hasn't actually had his own values, connections, or personal commitment tested.

And I think he really needs it. Thinking back to the summit events -- his reaction to Gaara's advice about Sasuke, for example -- proves Naruto has a lot of growing up to do in terms of understanding real sacrifice for ideals in the performance of one's duty. In this one way, Sasuke had it right; Naruto's lack of close ties means he hasn't experienced loss, betrayal by, or confrontation with someone he has loved and admired.

So far, Naruto hasn't really considered the possibility that Sasuke is unworthy and/or unsaveable, and that Sasuke may very well force a situation where Naruto has to choose between what's right and what he personally wants. His almost single-minded pursuit of Sasuke is kind of selfish in my view, and it's a reflection of Naruto's naiveté that it hasn't occurred to him that his nindo might end up causing him serious emotional conflict.

And there's definitely a certain appeal in the scenario of Sasuke "killing" Sakura, and Naruto having to make his moral decision based on that reality. As you say, it would be a good test of Naruto's heroic mettle, but it would also be an excellent way to reveal the depth of Naruto's feelings for Sakura.

[Rikudo Sennin]

Just because Obito believed so doesn't make it so, we all believed that Itachi killed off his family in cold blood just to prove his power but look how that turned out.

Again i will only make a final conclusion until we get all the facts. Going by your logic Kakashi should have never been able to awaken his MS since the eyes were apart, yet he did.
Never really bought the Itachi is the most evil dude ever argument. There was always something fishy if one were to look at his actions starting from the beginning.

Just because the eyes didn't belong to you in the first place doesn't mean that they can turn of thier Doujutsu otherwise Sasuke couldn't shut off his Sharingan because they are Itachi's and we also have Ao (I think that's his name) the Kiri-nin who has the Byakugan, although his Byakugan is covered up we can tell because of the veins around his eye that he can turn it off.

Byakugan is a totally different story, so far it doesn't seem to follow any of the same rules as the sharingan,rinnengan. And Sasuke's case was also different, his eyes not only came from another Uchiha, it was his brother's eyes which we have been told holds a special connection, granting him EMS. So no it's not comparable to giving your eyes to another non-uchiha family member, in that case Kakashi,Danzo and Nagato all have that in common.

[Jake]

Again i will only make a final conclusion until we get all the facts. Going by your logic Kakashi should have never been able to awaken his MS since the eyes were apart, yet he did.
Never really bought the Itachi is the most evil dude ever argument. There was always something fishy if one were to look at his actions starting from the beginning.


Byakugan is a totally different story, so far it doesn't seem to follow any of the same rules as the sharingan,rinnengan. And Sasuke's case was also different, his eyes not only came from another Uchiha, it was his brother's eyes which we have been told holds a special connection, granting him EMS. So no it's not comparable to giving your eyes to another non-uchiha family member, in that case Kakashi,Danzo and Nagato all have that in common.

Madara said that you need both Sharingans to unlock their true power i.e. the Rinnegan which is understandable in that you wouldn't want someone who has used Izanagi, which was apparently a problem as evident by Itachi's description of Izanami which is supposed to only be available to those who have the Mangekyo (I know that still doesn't explain Danzo but he did have Shisui's eye and the others were experimented on).

And another thing I just remembered Madara said that he unlocked his Rinnegan shortly before he died yet Nagato was approximately the same age as Minato and probably a little older so unless about a decade (at the least) before his death was shortly then there is just as much evidence to say that Madara didn't give Nagato his eyes.

[Rikudo Sennin]

Madara said that you need both Sharingans to unlock their true power i.e. the Rinnegan which is understandable in that you wouldn't want someone who has used Izanagi, which was apparently a problem as evident by Itachi's description of Izanami which is supposed to only be available to those who have the Mangekyo (I know that still doesn't explain Danzo but he did have Shisui's eye and the others were experimented on).

And another thing I just remembered Madara said that he unlocked his Rinnegan shortly before he died yet Nagato was approximately the same age as Minato and probably a little older so unless about a decade (at the least) before his death was shortly then there is just as much evidence to say that Madara didn't give Nagato his eyes.

He didn't say rinnengan, he simply stated to unlock their true power which can mean just about anything.

The situation concerning Madara and Nagato's rinnengan is way too vague which i have no doubt Kishi will soon enlighten us on. I already stated my theory and you yours, we shall simply have to wait and see.

[Jake]

He didn't say rinnengan, he simply stated to unlock their true power which can mean just about anything.

True but typically when someone says true power they mean when something or someone is at its most powerful and we have already established that the Rinnegan is more powerful then the Mangekyo, and the fact that Kakashi already has the Mangekyo implies that he is talking about the Rinnegan.

The situation concerning Madara and Nagato's rinnengan is way too vague which i have no doubt Kishi will soon enlighten us on. I already stated my theory and you yours, we shall simply have to wait and see.

For the first time in the little debate I could not agree with you more.

[Codus N]

Does anybody think Danzo was involved in Rin's death?? I do.

Think about it, Danzo sought out the Sharingan as well. Kakashi was the first person ever in the world to have a doujutsu implanted in him. It wouldn't be surprising if he targeted Rin and Kakashi for secrets on doujutsu implantation and Rin got caught up in it and died.

Although, my only problem with this theory would be Minato. We know how shrewd Minato is. He would've placed his Hiraishin seals on his own students at a time of war so that he can quickly come to their aid. Targeting his students would be suicide since if anyone kidnapped them, he would know something's off and teleport to them right away.

Another possible culprit would be the Uchiha (or at least some fanatics) targeting them for transplanting one of their eyes to a non-uchiha. But again, even I'm sure Fugaku would not be so dumb enough as to risk Minato's wrath. If the Uchiha did so, this would explain Obito's motives for revenge against them.

Edited by Codus N, 22 September 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Jake]

Does anybody think Danzo was involved in Rin's death?? I do.

Well Danzo has screwed with just about everybody's lives so chances are he was responsible for something that screwed up Obito too. You know for someone who's goal is to protect Konoha he was really doing a p*** poor job at it.

Think about it, Danzo sought out the Sharingan as well. Kakashi was the first person ever in the world to have a doujutsu implanted in him. It wouldn't be surprising if he targeted Rin and Kakashi for secrets on doujutsu implantation and Rin got caught up in it and died.

I don't think Kakashi was the first I mean there seem to be a lot of people who how to preform eye transplants, I can't imagine that that is something that has taken off since Kakashi got his Sharingan.

Although, my only problem with this theory would be Minato. We know how shrewd Minato is. He would've placed his Hiraishin seals on his own students at a time of war so that he can quickly come to their aid. Targeting his students would be suicide since if anyone kidnapped them, he would know something's off and teleport to them right away.

If Minato had a seals on his students then what would have been the point of giving Kakashi one of his Kunai with the seal on it.

[Rikudo Sennin]

Does anybody think Danzo was involved in Rin's death?? I do.

Think about it, Danzo sought out the Sharingan as well. Kakashi was the first person ever in the world to have a doujutsu implanted in him. It wouldn't be surprising if he targeted Rin and Kakashi for secrets on doujutsu implantation and Rin got caught up in it and died.

I don't believe so no. Danzo's crime record is pretty well known. Danzo seemed to only truelly start his more evil schemes once Minato was out of the way, scheming with Oro to get rid of the Uchiha clan and starting their experiments on the sharingans. He also was not shown to know anything about Madara that is Obito. And in Danzo's fight with Sasuke Obito seemed to not care one bit outside of the chance of aquiring Shisiu's eye. If Danzo had anything to do with Rin's death Obito would have fought/tortured him personally. Overall Danzo was simply not in Madara's league or even Oro's in terms of big bad.
I think in the following week/s we'll get the answers concerning Rin's death.

Edited by Rikudo Sennin, 22 September 2012 - 12:23 PM.

[AnaHatakechan]

I bet it was Madara that killed Rin! If so it'd make more sense xD Curse you Madara

[Jake]

I bet it was Madara that killed Rin! If so it'd make more sense xD Curse you Madara

If Madara killed Rin then why would Obito work with him?

[merryGOflava]

i guess it would be to easy if rin simply died on a mission with kakashi??? XD............wat to boring??

i guess it would be a waste of a good plot twist if that happened huh?

[Nate River]

Does anybody think Danzo was involved in Rin's death?? I do.
.

Yeah, if something bad happened to someone within or around 500 miles of Konoha its a safe bet Danzou was involved. It's Kishimoto's go to guy when he needs Konoha to do something bad without running the risk of legitimizing Sasuke's grievances to the village as a whole.

It was fine for a time, now it'd just be plain lazy.

It wouldn't surprise me, but I see no reason he has to reach for that now. Her dying in a garden variety mission would suffice so long as Kakashi was around and failed to prevent her death. I think Rin's death is the initial catalyst or the final nail. I agree with others it's not the only reason.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

if madara kills rin, obito will only have revenge feelings not the whole world change, i think obito will see rin die and she will die on his arms to be more dramatic and sad scene.

[HalfStarStudios]

Just a heads up:

Kishimoto has stated in the ToC comments of Jump that there is a certain mistake in Ch.599



See!!?? this is why people shouldn't be throwing a hissy fit over such an obvious mistake!!

Link: http://mangahelpers....l=1#post3034507

Now where's my apology on the ages! Anko looks a little old for a 2 year old. Hayate must have grown fast to be looking like that at just 1 year old. :sneaky: