89 replies to this topic

[Khaleesi]

Again, didn't Kishimoto specifically said MinaKushi was a red-herring on Narusaku? And that the only one who resembles Kushina and could be compared into the parallel was Sakura? I mean, some dude asked about it and he denied it (being more than that) pretty fast.

Edited by Khaleesi, 03 August 2017 - 12:58 AM.

[Charger76]

@Analyzer. Honest question, no hate coming from it. Why are you on this site? You have every right to be here, you have done no bashing or hate, but I don't see what satisfaction you get from being on this site. Is it just for the debates? You oppose just about every post in any thread, which again is your view, which is fine, but like I'm honestly just not seeing what you are doing. Some comments don't have any continuation or importance to them, like mine on that parallel, but you responded with a rebuttle. Like the parallel was literally made in the manga for a purpose as a red herring as Kishi said. No other reasons. Yet you defended the NH parallel between the couples which was in-canon as not the intended purpose. As you said, parallels can't hold that much weight, but you still couldn't let NS have the parallel that was intended for them as a reason to mislead. Edit: you are corect in the fact that the focus of the parallel was more on Kushina and sakura rather than the couple themselves, although there are parallels between them as well

I guess just what are your motives for this site? Is your goal to get people to move on or "see the light"?

Also just a quick comment on the ending. You defend it and like it, that's fine your opinion. I do not, others do not as well, that is fine. I think there are other problems besides pairings (I include the war arc as part of the ending that I see flaws in). I also hate how much he pushed the misleading of NS towards the end when he should have focusing on branching off that thought to create a clearer ending like endings should have, although I figured when Neji died they wouldn't kill a character and not have them get together. Back to my point as I got off topic. Not everything is going to be liked, not everything is going to be disliked. Even low rated movies have people who enjoy them, and vice Versa with top rated movies. But aside from my opinion, I do think it shows something on how the ending went when nearly half of your fanbase disliked how it ended. You are not going to please everyone, but your goal should be to please as many as you can. The fact that a good chunk of your fanbase dislikes the ending showed there are indeed flaws within the product that you put out.

I am not a writer, I do not draw, I don't create stories, I am a business student. There are clear flaws that go outside shipping. There are flaws within the ships themselves. There have been poor business decisions within the manga/anime/outside the fact that frustrated a lot of people. Ultimately with something that plays off the opinions of others, what becomes objective is the end result. That end result was with a lot of people dissatisfied with their product. A lot pleased, but if it's 50/50 while in your opinion it is a good ending, in an overview it is controversial and cannot be classified as good from a distance. Also while I hate negativity and bashing to reach a point, the people on this site have put in a lot of time to this series throughout their life, they have a right to be frustrated at the very least. NS had the most time interacting of any two people in the entire series. We saw them interact the most out of anyone. We grew up with them, we liked the way they interacted, we saw how much they cared for each other. Then it kind of just cut off at the end.

Also I do think you have confirmatory bias to some degree, like ThroughWithLove stated. Ok, the ending happened, you are mad like a lot of people are. You go a month, you hurt a friends feelings, you feel bad. You then look at yourself and say "what did I do wrong" "what did I miss". So you go back through the story with the ending in mind. You take each NH moment thus forth and give it more meaning. Then you take NS moments and search for flaws in them. Your confirmatory bias is you searching for a reason for NH/SS to occur as opposed to the other results because you want to believe it ended the best way possible. Everyone has confirmatory bias to some degree. You use hindsight to prove yourself wrong for supporting NS as the end game. It's easy to see faults in your initial reasoning when you have hindsight. Me personally, as I look at more and more stuff on naruto, my NS resolve wavers, but actually ends up stronger at the end. Now I admit I have confirmatory bias, I dislike the end pairings because imo NH is boring and SS is flawed and weakens sakuras development or at least potential development, so I'm not gonna look as much at the stuff that focuses on them. So naturally there will be some degree of bias.

Kishi saying he wanted to mislead proves enough that he did give reasons to assume NS had a possibility of end game potential. It's ok for you to like the ending and end up ok with the result, but it is also ok to dislike it

Edited by Charger76, 03 August 2017 - 01:40 AM.

[T XD]

Minato and Kushina aren't the parallels of Naruto and Sakura. Naruto only connects to Minato in hair, and maybe jutsu name silliness, but in ways that Sakura parallels to Kushina, well, Naruto does too, and more strongly so. Hey, I just demonstrated how parallels work earlier. I guess I'm not grasping at straws, understand parallels, and am saying that MinatoKushina is a stronger parallel to the canon couple.

 

So I guess your statement is false.

 

0/100, F, See me after class.

Reality will hit you hard when you know what and how good writing is, and how parallels are simple in manga and anime.

 

I can not take you seriously when you say MK isn't like NS.

Edited by T XD, 03 August 2017 - 01:25 AM.

[BlackShirtGuy]

@Charger76 At this point, I'm pretty sure all of she say it's a lie and she is just there to annoy and enrage people, there really is no point to her actions other than to annoy and enrage others who differ with her, she continues on arguing even when it isn't a debate thread and ask for proff and when it's given to her she says is wrong or twist the facts, so no she just want to get people banned or is an atention seeker.

[Charger76]

@Charger76 At this point, I'm pretty sure all of she say it's a lie and she is just there to annoy and enrage people, there really is no point to her actions other than to annoy and enrage others who differ with her, she continues on arguing even when it isn't a debate thread and ask for proff and when it's given to her she says is wrong or twist the facts, so no she just want to get people banned or is an atention seeker.

I hate to think that, but as it's gone on idk anymore. Maybe not on all of that but her intended purposes. When I joined I liked the unbiased reality driven responses. I didn't always agree but I understood the thoughts. She was a NS fan that didn't hate the ending, ok that's fine. But........just so much effort on small, minute unimportant details over a long course of time. While she has every right, she combats every single little detail. It's mind boggling. She was on this site before as a guest as she said, so she knew what she kind of responses she was gonna get. No disrespect but I just don't understand the goal

Edited by Charger76, 03 August 2017 - 01:53 AM.

[BlackShirtGuy]

I hate to think that, but as it's gone on idk anymore. Maybe not on all of that but her intended purposes. When I joined I liked the unbiased reality driven responses. I didn't always agree but I understood the thoughts. She was a NS fan that didn't hate the ending, ok that's fine. But........just so much effort on small, minute unimportant details over a long course of time. While she has every right, she combats every single little detail. It's mind boggling. She was on this site before as a guest as she said, so she knew what she kind of responses she was gonna get. No disrespect but I just don't understand the goal

If she wouldn't twist everything I might belive her, but she is on a mind of her own, she will refuse everything and refute everyone, even if it doesn't make sense.
Considering she defends The Last and Sasusaku which are LITERALLY undefendable if you followed this series, that only makes you think.
Look I never gave too much importance of the pairings, but I knew, the moment Neiji was killed that something was up and figured that the ending was gonna be NH, but it sill didn't made sense they wanted the movie  (or the movie was the flipping reason for Neijis death) , just think about it, the penultimate movie of the series was heavy NS, and then all of a sudden new announcement of a movie for ending the series, around a year later we get Neji's death (which people have said and I believe made no sense),  that's too much of a coincidence in timing, but that's just my opinion.

Edited by BlackShirtGuy, 03 August 2017 - 02:11 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

Correct. To clarify my point, since you did not grasp it:

 

MinaKushi does not parallel NaruSaku, and paralleles are a weak argument if you are going to use them on why a pairing should be canon.

MinaKushi actually paralleles NaruHina more, based on the above I pointed out. This isn't to put down NaruSaku at all, mind, but I illustrated the parallel. The point is saying this parallel proves NaruHina to be canon is a weak argument, because it doesn't have to do with development.

 

This wasn't even adding Red Fate, or the later paralleled escaping breakfast pictures.

 

Overplayed your hand this time. Not taking the bait. 

 

@Analyzer. Honest question, no hate coming from it. Why are you on this site?

 

 

Attention of the negative variety. Note how our good friend nearly suffocated when people started talking about digimon and dbz in the debate thread. And he not only seeks it; he craves it. Something as simple as Khaleesi not wanting to continue their debate in the debate thread just about drove Analyzer-sama crazier than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.   Then you've got this thread where he goes so far as to try and argue that Minato/Kushina parallels Naruto/Hinata despite insisting that parallels don't matter (the stuff about "I'm just trying to prove it's a weak argument" is a lie given that he makes this exact same argument to BlackShirtGuy in the Boruto episosde 18 review thread for no reason whatsoever).

 

So in retrospect, we've got two real options when dealings with the likes of Analyzer sama. (1) Ignore him. He/she/it/whatever will get increasingly desperate at first (which is maybe what this NaruHina =MinaKushi stuff is), but will vanish fast and move onto more promising waters elsewhere. (2) Don't take him seriously. I'm doing this at the moment as I don't care one way or the other whether someone is trolling this forum as long as they can at least be somewhat interesting (which was the case here initially). Though I've gotta say. If he keeps being obvious with his routine and keeps making semantics arguments, I'm gonna lose all interest entirely.

 

 

 

@ Khaleesi, on 02 Aug 2017 - 7:58 PM, said:

Again, didn't Kishimoto specifically said MinaKushi was a red-herring on Narusaku? And that the only one who resembles Kushina and could be compared into the parallel was Sakura? I mean, some dude asked about it and he denied it (being more than that) pretty fast.

 

 

Yes, he was pretty specific. There's no denying what Kishi intended here. There's also no denying that this is going on:

 

 

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 03 August 2017 - 02:56 AM.

[Khaleesi]

[Yyubie]

 

Correct. To clarify my point, since you did not grasp it:

 

MinaKushi does not parallel NaruSaku, and paralleles are a weak argument if you are going to use them on why a pairing should be canon.

MinaKushi actually paralleles NaruHina more, based on the above I pointed out. This isn't to put down NaruSaku at all, mind, but I illustrated the parallel. The point is saying this parallel proves NaruHina to be canon is a weak argument, because it doesn't have to do with development.

Everyone read this ??

 

I have a request to anyone that still replying to this person , please if you want to reply this person use this format :

 

@YouKnowWhosName

--------------------------------------

------------------------------

 

Even though i already put the name into ignore list i can still see his/her B.S post if you quote his/her post. So i'm not saying or force you to stop reply to this person and it's just a request , please don't quote his/her post. I'm in a car sometimes or walking to mini market while reading this forum through phone i might get accident or step into dog poo because of this person B.S post.

[ThroughWithLove]