54216 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

This may be a little off-topic, but do you guys really consider Kishi a troll? I know a lot of people have accused Kishi of trolling in the Naruto fandom, but honestly... I don't see it. When has he really trolled a portion of the fandom? One could argue he trolled NaruHina in chapter 616, but I feel as if it was more NH trolling themselves. Honestly believing that their ship was canon after that moment was a mistake and led them into feeling as if they were trolled after 616 came out. They developed a false sense of security which was easily broken. Other then 616 being considered a moment where he trolled fans, I don't really see any other reason to call him a troll... So why is he labeled as such in the fandom? 

I see troll as a fandom excuse of being disappointed in most cases, though mainly on romance. Honestly, romance dodge technique has been happening for a long time in writing. There's a dodge to it, but since the term troll has been used extreme in Internet, it's now the all day excuse. But that's just me. I do agree with you.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

This may be a little off-topic, but do you guys really consider Kishi a troll? I know a lot of people have accused Kishi of trolling in the Naruto fandom, but honestly... I don't see it. When has he really trolled a portion of the fandom? One could argue he trolled NaruHina in chapter 616, but I feel as if it was more NH trolling themselves. Honestly believing that their ship was canon after that moment was a mistake and led them into feeling as if they were trolled after 616 came out. They developed a false sense of security which was easily broken. Other then 616 being considered a moment where he trolled fans, I don't really see any other reason to call him a troll... So why is he labeled as such in the fandom? 

 

No, I don't see him as being a troll to the fandoms, some writers are, they go about things in a way to tease readers, drop hints and such for pairings, for example, but in the end don't follow through with them and only leave things implied or open to interpretation. Sometimes this can be pulled off in a way that gets readers to kind of laugh along, but it can also make them angry at being played.

615 and 616 are perfects examples of readers trolling themselves by jumping to conclusions, Kishi wasn't going out of his way to tease, even if it seemed that way with the excruciating three week wait. From what I understand though, 615 was actually a leaked chapter that wasn't supposed to be released until after the break  . I'm not quite sure of the reason Kishi has gotten this reputation as a troll, because from what I see, it's the fans getting overly worked up and making outrageous speculations that are much more to blame.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 12 October 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[deviouslyChaotic]

I see troll as a fandom excuse of being disappointed in most cases, though mainly on romance. Honestly, romance dodge technique has been happening for a long time in writing. There's a dodge to it, but since the term troll has been used extreme in Internet, it's now the all day excuse. But that's just me. I do agree with you.

Bolded: Agreed! Maybe it has something to do with the term "trolling" or "troll" being so overused that its lost its proper meaning. Instead of saying something along the lines of, "I wasn't expecting that," they jump straight to trolling. Being caught by surprise isn't due to being trolled--neither is being disappointed.

 

 

No, I don't see him as being a troll to the fandoms, some writers are, they go about things in a way to tease readers, drop hints and such for pairings, for example, but in the end don't follow through with them and only leave things implied or open to interpretation. 615 and 616 are perfects examples of readers trolling themselves by jumping to conclusions, Kishi wasn't going out of his way to tease, even if it seemed that way with the excruciating three week wait. From what I understand though, 615 was actually a leaked chapter that wasn't supposed to be released until after the break  . I'm not quite sure of the reason Kishi has gotten this reputation as a troll, because from what I see, it's the fans getting overly worked up and making outrageous speculations that are much more to blame.

Agreed. I've certainly come across writers who really are trolls and who love to tease their audience, but Kishi is not one of these writers. Also agree about how it's mainly the readers trolling themselves rather than the author going out of his way to purposely troll them. Wow, I didn't know 615 was a leaked chapter . That three weak break was awful to endure ugh. Having such a long break can really cause fans to over-think things and get too much inside of their heads, causing them to perceive something as bigger than it really is.

Bolded: This. 100% agreed. Just because something did not go as you speculated doesn't mean Kishi trolled you. I also don't understand why some NS fans on Tumblr said he trolled NH in chapter 631. ...What was there to troll? That moment just served as a solid confirmation of the parallel. All of the obvious hints were there and pointing towards the parallel beforehand but some people just chose to ignore it which resulted in them being in a state of shock after having the parallel blatantly spelled out for them. 

But yes, being in a state of shock isn't necessarily the result of trolling. It's more often than not the result of choosing to ignore canon as well as getting way to caught up in ridiculous speculation.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

This may be a little off-topic, but do you guys really consider Kishi a troll? I know a lot of people have accused Kishi of trolling in the Naruto fandom, but honestly... I don't see it. When has he really trolled a portion of the fandom? One could argue he trolled NaruHina in chapter 616, but I feel as if it was more NH trolling themselves. Honestly believing that their ship was canon after that moment was a mistake and led them into feeling as if they were trolled after 616 came out. They developed a false sense of security which was easily broken. Other then 616 being considered a moment where he trolled fans, I don't really see any other reason to call him a troll... So why is he labeled as such in the fandom? 

Yes he does trolling but it's trolling because he leave things to be explained later.
Example : 615 Naruto and Hinata held hands, 616 Naruto explains that it's to transfer chakra(troll).

Ex 2: Akatsuki tries to capture all the bijuu's, but then later Obito explains that it doesnt need to capture all of them just a part of the chakra is enough.(dont forget he had the kyuubi on his possession at some point but chose to use it to attack the village lol)

Ex 3: Edo Tensei is trolling at finest.

Ex 4: Madara's edo tensei special, there's no logical explanation for that i do prefer believing Kabuto did some voodoo or used magic because even the kages are using zetsus as their recipients and still cant spam Mokuton(Zetsu = Body made of first hokage cells).

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 October 2013 - 07:22 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Bolded: Agreed! Maybe it has something to do with the term "trolling" or "troll" being so overused that its lost its proper meaning. Instead of saying something along the lines of, "I wasn't expecting that," they jump straight to trolling. Being caught by surprise isn't due to being trolled--neither is being disappointed.

 

Agreed. I've certainly come across writers who really are trolls and who love to tease their audience, but Kishi is not one of these writers. Also agree about how it's mainly the readers trolling themselves rather than the author going out of his way to purposely troll them. Wow, I didn't know 615 was a leaked chapter . That three weak break was awful to endure ugh. Having such a long break can really cause fans to over-think things and get too much inside of their heads, causing them to perceive something as bigger than it really is.

Bolded: This. 100% agreed. Just because something did not go as you speculated doesn't mean Kishi trolled you. I also don't understand why some NS fans on Tumblr said he trolled NH in chapter 631. ...What was there to troll? That moment just served as a solid confirmation of the parallel. All of the obvious hints were there and pointing towards the parallel beforehand but some people just chose to ignore it which resulted in them being in a state of shock after having the parallel blatantly spelled out for them. 

But yes, being in a state of shock isn't necessarily the result of trolling. It's more often than not the result of choosing to ignore canon as well as getting way to caught up in ridiculous speculation.

 

I don't much like to make a habit of using the word "troll" because it is overused, like you said. And when I called Atsushi Okubo a troll, it wasn't because I'd been caught by surprise or disappointed, I knew he would not make Soul/Maka canon, because he was always very careful not to pass that "point of no return" that I mentioned earlier. I said he was a troll because he liked to tease ALOT and very badly. Just to make sure that's clear.

 

And 631 was definitely not a troll to NH fans, and I find it very rude of some NS fans to say so. It confirmed a parallel that was already heavily hinted at, nothing more. If people were caught unawares by it, then it would only be the result of not taking the time to look and see what was already make clear, Kishimoto has not tried to give 'false hope' to NaruHina or SasuSaku, and has been quite consistent in his portrayals of them, in my opinion.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Bolded: Agreed! Maybe it has something to do with the term "trolling" or "troll" being so overused that its lost its proper meaning. Instead of saying something along the lines of, "I wasn't expecting that," they jump straight to trolling. Being caught by surprise isn't due to being trolled--neither is being disappointed.
 
Agreed. I've certainly come across writers who really are trolls and who love to tease their audience, but Kishi is not one of these writers. Also agree about how it's mainly the readers trolling themselves rather than the author going out of his way to purposely troll them. Wow, I didn't know 615 was a leaked chapter . That three weak break was awful to endure ugh. Having such a long break can really cause fans to over-think things and get too much inside of their heads, causing them to perceive something as bigger than it really is.
Bolded: This. 100% agreed. Just because something did not go as you speculated doesn't mean Kishi trolled you. I also don't understand why some NS fans on Tumblr said he trolled NH in chapter 631. ...What was there to troll? That moment just served as a solid confirmation of the parallel. All of the obvious hints were there and pointing towards the parallel beforehand but some people just chose to ignore it which resulted in them being in a state of shock after having the parallel blatantly spelled out for them. 
But yes, being in a state of shock isn't necessarily the result of trolling. It's more often than not the result of choosing to ignore canon as well as getting way to caught up in ridiculous speculation.

I do agree that troll has lost its meaning, but it could be used for yourself, not that the writer intended to. Use it like a "Whoops!" not "Writing sucks!"

Bad writing has also gotten overplay because it's not listening to them, rather what's needed to be done. Bad writing should happen from the writer's fault, not ours. Examples like if he ends with NS with way beyond evidences as well as closing others in a normal fashion and the fandom would call it bad writing. That's your fault. Bad writing should be like Sasuke turns complete good without Naruto needing to do anything, therefore can end series once Obito and Madara are done. That's bad because of all buildup and connections only to go "eh".

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

I don't much like to make a habit of using the word "troll" because it is overused, like you said. And when I called Atsushi Okubo a troll, it wasn't because I'd been caught by surprise or disappointed, I knew he would not make Soul/Maka canon, because he was always very careful not to pass that "point of no return" that I mentioned earlier. I said he was a troll because he liked to tease ALOT and very badly. Just to make sure that's clear.

 

And 631 was definitely not a troll to NH fans, and I find it very rude of some NS fans to say so. It confirmed a parallel that was already heavily hinted at, nothing more. If people were caught unawares by it, then it would only be the result of not taking the time to look and see what was already make clear, Kishimoto has not tried to give 'false hope' to NaruHina or SasuSaku, and has been quite consistent in his portrayals of them, in my opinion.

We know it's not but even then it's understandable to see this reaction, i mean Minato came from nowhere and suddenly just because sakura was healing Naruto he made the assumption that she was his girlfriend and asked if she was really his son's girlfriend.

 

He looked like that uncle that every family has that every time you see him he ask if you have a girlfriend.

[deviouslyChaotic]

Yes he does trolling but it's trolling because he leave things to be explained later.
Example : 615 Naruto and Hinata held hands, 616 Naruto explains that it's to transfer chakra(troll).

Ex 2: Akatsuki tries to capture all the bijuu's, but then later Obito explains that it doesnt need to capture all of them just a part of the chakra is enough.(dont forget he had the kyuubi on his possession at some point but chose to use it to attack the village lol)

Ex 3: Edo Tensei is trolling at finest.

Ex 4: Madara's edo tensei special, there's no logical explanation for that i do prefer believing Kabuto did some voodoo or used magic because even the kages are using zetsus as their recipients and still cant spam Mokuton(Zetsu = Body made of first hokage cells).

Ex1: It was obvious at the end of 615 that it was only used for chakra transfer. 616 just reinforced that and nullified the notion that Hinata was receiving "special treatment" from gaining chakra through hand-holding.

Ex 2: Ok, that can be classified as trolling.

Ex 3: Was that trolling? Or just a poorly thought at scenario/ "asspull"? I really don't like it when people are revived in fiction even though one of my favorite works of fiction does it all the time. It makes the feeling of permanently seizing to exist lose necessary seriousness. It also serves to make it seem like death doesn't mean anything when it should.

Ex 4: I'll classify that as an asspull. That was just ridiculous.

 

 

I don't much like to make a habit of using the word "troll" because it is overused, like you said. And when I called Atsushi Okubo a troll, it wasn't because I'd been caught by surprise or disappointed, I knew he would not make Soul/Maka canon, because he was always very careful not to pass that "point of no return" that I mentioned earlier. I said he was a troll because he liked to tease ALOT and very badly. Just to make sure that's clear.

 

And 631 was definitely not a troll to NH fans, and I find it very rude of some NS fans to say so. It confirmed a parallel that was already heavily hinted at, nothing more. If people were caught unawares by it, then it would only be the result of not taking the time to look and see what was already make clear, Kishimoto has not tried to give 'false hope' to NaruHina or SasuSaku, and has been quite consistent in his portrayals of them, in my opinion.

Oh, yes! Although I haven't finished Soul Eater yet, I knew you were not referring to being disappointed, but rather the fact that you were being teased constantly. I actually saw a gif on tumblr where it looked like Maka was about to kiss a passed out Soul, but instead, she just kind of.. placed her head on his. Major tease. I know where you're coming from. I'm experiencing the pain of an author constantly messing with his readers as of now and it's painful to say the least, haha.

I agree with your second paragraph.

 

I do agree that troll has lost its meaning, but it could be used for yourself, not that the writer intended to. Use it like a "Whoops!" not "Writing sucks!"

Bad writing has also gotten overplay because it's not listening to them, rather what's needed to be done. Bad writing should happen from the writer's fault, not ours. Examples like if he ends with NS with way beyond evidences as well as closing others in a normal fashion and the fandom would call it bad writing. That's your fault. Bad writing should be like Sasuke turns complete good without Naruto needing to do anything, therefore can end series once Obito and Madara are done. That's bad because of all buildup and connections only to go "eh".

Yes! Completely agree about the bad writing situation. I feel as though people are justified in claiming NH to be bad writing if it ended up canon because it's just WAY to unrealistic and lacks necessary development. It can't work. It's too late in the manga to suddenly attempt to develop it in order for it to become endgame. If Kishi really wanted to make NH canon, he would've developed much, much sooner. He could've made a variety of situations happen even in the beginning of part 2 in order to have Hinata and Naruto interact and develop together more, but he didn't. Also, you brought up good examples of what bad writing would be. I agree. Having an "eh" feeling, like you said, at the climax of the story is an emotion that results from bad writing and poorly executed situations. A build-up should leave you nearly mesmerized as well as completely satisfied. If a work fails to do that, than it's because of the way it was written and executed.

[BlueStarSaber]

Yes he does trolling but it's trolling because he leave things to be explained later.
Example : 615 Naruto and Hinata held hands, 616 Naruto explains that it's to transfer chakra(troll).

Ex 2: Akatsuki tries to capture all the bijuu's, but then later Obito explains that it doesnt need to capture all of them just a part of the chakra is enough.(dont forget he had the kyuubi on his possession at some point but chose to use it to attack the village lol)

Ex 3: Edo Tensei is trolling at finest.

Ex 4: Madara's edo tensei special, there's no logical explanation for that i do prefer believing Kabuto did some voodoo or used magic because even the kages are using zetsus as their recipients and still cant spam Mokuton(Zetsu = Body made of first hokage cells).

I don't think leavening things for later to be explained count as trolling as it is to leave to reader more interested in what is to come later in the story.

1. To be fair we saw Kurama holding Kakashi hand for chakra transfer a few chapter back before 615
2. Perhaps though it was kinda of hinted when the gold and sliver brothers were shown with Nine Tails chakra, plus one way or another we were going to see the Ten Tails. Also to be fair when he got the Nine tails he was near the village so it was the perfect opportunity to try and destroy the leaf. Not to menition he used that incident to his advantage to get Sasuke through the Uchia massacre and further boast the lie that he was Madara if he ever need it.  
3. I don't see this as trolling for I knew we may get to see this jutsu due to the fact not all of the jinchuuriki were shown in the manga at that point so what over way to see them than to raise them for the dead (I know Flashbacks could of been a way but since he made a double colour page about them he was going to make them a big deal at some point).
4. It was modified just like what Obito did with the host for his sixth paths (of course not seen), not to mention he already had the first's DNA, also the zetsu are used as sacrifices not as a way to modify.

Edited by BlueStarSaber, 12 October 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

 

Oh, yes! Although I haven't finished Soul Eater yet, I knew you were not referring to being disappointed, but rather the fact that you were being teased constantly. I actually saw a gif on tumblr where it looked like Maka was about to kiss a passed out Soul, but instead, she just kind of.. placed her head on his. Major tease. I know where you're coming from. I'm experiencing the pain of an author constantly messing with his readers as of now and it's painful to say the least, haha.

I agree with your second paragraph.

 

 

Finally! Someone who feels my pain.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yeah I'll be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed in Soul Eater ending. It's not terrible but maybe I was hoping for shipping confirmation. Just left it as it is. Oh well, it could have been worse. Though why on earth "those" was the last topic before closing...

[sushi.]

There is a difference between trolling and an asspull, darkrerst.

 

I agree that some of the examples you mentioned were trolling, but some were just asspulls or bad writing.

Edited by sushi., 12 October 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[deviouslyChaotic]

 

Finally! Someone who feels my pain.

 

[Luna]

Yeah I'll be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed in Soul Eater ending. It's not terrible but maybe I was hoping for shipping confirmation. Just left it as it is. Oh well, it could have been worse. Though why on earth "those" was the last topic before closing...

I'm surprised though. I stopped watching soul eater like 3 years ago. I tend to do that when I'm sure  2 characters will end up together. Like with fairy tail~ I do not watch the anime anymore I only read the manga. NaLu =endgame so I'm shocked to hear soul eater end the way it did.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I'm surprised though. I stopped watching soul eater like 3 years ago. I tend to do that when I'm sure  2 characters will end up together. Like with fairy tail~ I do not watch the anime anymore I only read the manga. NaLu =endgame so I'm shocked to hear soul eater end the way it did.

It's funny because I didn't know soul eater ended until I read "final chapter". I was like "Wait, I stopped a while ago but I thought they were doing this one mission from somewhere else. So yeah, I went back, caught up, and finished it. There is only one pairing confirmed but I thought it was obvious so nice to know they didn't miss that. I mean they are adults.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I'm surprised though. I stopped watching soul eater like 3 years ago. I tend to do that when I'm sure  2 characters will end up together. Like with fairy tail~ I do not watch the anime anymore I only read the manga. NaLu =endgame so I'm shocked to hear soul eater end the way it did.

 

I haven't finished the Soul Eater anime, but I do know that it diverges quite drastically from the manga about halfway through. I still quite enjoy the manga though, even if my favorite characters didn't get together.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 13 October 2013 - 01:01 AM.

[rocci]

Soul eater is the kind of manga that will leave open ending, just like bleach, alive the final evolution, and slam dunk.

It's a good manga.

[rikakim94]

This is off topic theres this cartoon like panel picture of masashi kishimoto and his wife?

 

 http://www.mangapark...to/c340-349/all

 

what does it say in the bottom of that picture? its in Japanese.

[Hiraishin]

This is off topic theres this cartoon like panel picture of masashi kishimoto and his wife?
 
 http://www.mangapark...to/c340-349/all
 
what does it say in the bottom of that picture? its in Japanese.

I'm not fluent in Japanese or anything, but I think it says something like, "Recently, my friends have been getting married more. I've been too busy, and unable to attend... I like the atmosphere of the wedding reception."
Heh, someone else will be able to give you a better translation but since no one had responded yet I thought I could take a crack at it. ^^

[TouKen4Life3g]

I'm not fluent in Japanese or anything, but I think it says something like, "Recently, my friends have been getting married more. I've been too busy, and unable to attend... I like the atmosphere of the wedding reception."
Heh, someone else will be able to give you a better translation but since no one had responded yet I thought I could take a crack at it. ^^

Going by that, I guess that's why he recall the moment with Oda's marriage and pretty much reply back with his wife looking like Nami. Like the atmosphere, eh? Well, we can hope a marriage for NS in the epilogue.