19964 replies to this topic

[narulsaku]

great post slextrem but why cant sakura gain new power and save tsunade. it seems unlogical but you just said that kishi feels okey to go unlogically or something.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

That's why I said he still doesn't have the maturity to back that wisdom up. With the wisdom he has gained, does he also have the maturity to handle the wisdom he's gained??

Most definitely not. Naruto's hero complex is just too strong.


@Slextrem: Excellent post!

[Codus N]

Exactly.

Y'know, this makes me even more pissed about the current Sasuke mini-arc. Seriously, just imagine the amount of wisdom and maturity Naruto could've gained from this meeting. This meeting is something that a Hokage candidate would've needed. Moreover, Hashirama is the best Hokage for him to talk to, aside from his father, because of their similar personalities.

Moreover, they're considered the strongest Shinobi of their respective generation. I'm pretty sure Hashirama had experienced a phase of hero complex in his life just like Naruto is going through now. If they had met, I'm sure Hashirama would be giving him a stern lecture about his hero complex because he's gone through it before.

[Don-kun]

Exactly.

Y'know, this makes me even more pissed about the current Sasuke mini-arc. Seriously, just imagine the amount of wisdom and maturity Naruto could've gained from this meeting. This meeting is something that a Hokage candidate would've needed. Moreover, Hashirama is the best Hokage for him to talk to, aside from his father, because of their similar personalities.

Moreover, they're considered the strongest Shinobi of their respective generation. I'm pretty sure Hashirama had experienced a phase of hero complex in his life just like Naruto is going through now. If they had met, I'm sure Hashirama would be giving him a stern lecture about his hero complex because he's gone through it before.

This is something I've saying for a while now, Sasuke gets all the mining full development, he get before hand all the explanations of the events, but somehow we most believe that Naruto the one with zero knowledge compered to Sasuke will save him.
What happen if Sasuke tell Naruto, are you aware of what I was told by your father on the other Kages? What take place with the Uchihas and Senju's? Aru you telling me that I'm wrong when you know nothing? What do you know about the past Naruto?
I saw everything I saw how my parents were murder, how much pain Itachi when through, the Hokages themselves accepted that they have some blame for the Uchihas behavior (just a scenario).

This is just an example of what I mean, Sasuke is gating all the development where he should be the one using TNJ on Naruto since he has the knowledge and Naruto is the one almost ignorant to the truth.

I see Sasuke doing Something good to save the alliance, just to get back at Tobi and Madara, I believe in this more than Sasuke vs Naruto evil vs good fight, Kishi making Tobirama the 1st Kages to speak while Hashirama and Minato will definitely soften his heart, gives me more reason to believe this way.





At Tsunade dying theory, I believe if she was about to die Kishi would of let us know a long time ago, the fact that he is keeping us in the dark about her status for so long is only to keep the readers under a high tension.
1st- You don't keep readers in the dark for so long about a character possible death and still kill them with out showing them in 20 or more chapter.
2nd- After the last joke about Tsunade in the latest chapter and the revelation to the other Kages that she is the current Hokage and the Village is doing fine, I believe is another positive hint that she will be fine in the end.

This character condition logic does not work in fiction.

[Slextrem]

great post slextrem but why cant sakura gain new power and save tsunade. it seems unlogical but you just said that kishi feels okey to go unlogically or something.

I'm not saying she can't. I'm just giving reasons as to why I don't think she will.
It seems unlikely to me because of the reasons that I listed above. While I want her to shine for us, I don't want her development to come from some butt-pull move that doesn't seem realistic.

I prefer to believe that she's either in Kamui (which probably won't happen but oh well...), or her moment will come soon during the battle. It makes more sense to me than having her suddenly leave the battle and shift the focus away from the Alliance (yet again). Plus, if she is given a power up in this scenario, Kishimoto can at least pretend that she trained for it off-panel. It would be another butt-pull, but it's more reasonable than having her travel all the way over to Tsunade and back again for it.

At Tsunade dying theory, I believe if she was about to die Kishi would of let us know a long time ago, the fact that he is keeping us in the dark about her status for so long is only to keep the readers under a high tension.
1st- You don't keep readers in the dark for so long about a character possible death and still kill them with out showing them in 20 or more chapter.
2nd- After the last joke about Tsunade in the latest chapter and the revelation to the other Kages that she is the current Hokage and the Village is doing fine, I believe is another positive hint that she will be fine in the end.

This character condition logic does not work in fiction.

Bolded: Unfortunately, you make a good point. I really dislike it when an author continuously puts his characters in near-death situations over and over again, but never lets them die. It's so... God-mode. That's why I had to stop reading Bleach. I couldn't stand Kubo constantly making it look like the Shinigami were all on death's door, just to have them all come back from it like nothing had happened.

Once is fine (as it's fiction), twice is okay but starting to push it, three times is just too much. I really hope that Kishimoto does not follow in Kubo's footsteps with this. Tsunade is from the old generation. She's lived to be a wonderful Hokage that's done more than enough for the people. It's time to hand over the torch to the new generation.

Edited by Slextrem, 06 February 2013 - 03:00 PM.

[Codus N]

Bolded: Unfortunately, you make a good point. I really dislike it when an author continuously puts his characters in near-death situations over and over again, but never lets them die. It's so... God-mode. That's why I had to stop reading Bleach. I couldn't stand Kubo constantly making it look like the Shinigami were all on death's door, just to have them all come back from it like nothing had happened.

Once is fine (as it's fiction), twice is okay but starting to push it, three times is just too much. I really hope that Kishimoto does not follow in Kubo's footsteps with this. Tsunade is from the old generation. She's lived to be a wonderful Hokage that's done more than enough for the people. It's time to hand over the torch to the new generation.

Well, if you want, you can go back to reading it since Kubo already killed off a major character and the story is getting better nowadays. Won't say who, but I'll give you 3 guesses.

[kirabook]

I think it's obvious Tsunade is going to die. This situation is not like her other ones. She's literally chopped in half and refused help from Katsuya in favor of helping the other Kages.

I like Tsunade and all (though she doesn't make my top 5 list) but I think she's done for.

[Slextrem]

Well, if you want, you can go back to reading it since Kubo already killed off a major character and the story is getting better nowadays. Won't say who, but I'll give you 3 guesses.

Yeah, my boyfriend already told me all about it. Out of all of the major characters that Kubo stuck on death's door, he only killed off two of them (the big honcho and Kira, wasn't it?) Somehow Rukia's brother was able to survive yet again, along with his merry band of comrades that were barely clinging onto life. LOL. That turned me away from the series even more. That isn't my only complaint about Bleach, but I'll leave it at that. It'll take a lot of mending to reverse the damage that's been done to that series.

Edited by Slextrem, 06 February 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[T XD]

Seems that her slashed body and refusing Katsuya's help means the end for her. But, like Don-Kun said, after 619, telling that Tsunade is the current Hokage, it's something that tells us that she'll be fine.

So, once again, for me, dying and still alive for Tsunade, are still two equal options that can happen.

[Chatte]

Well given her lineage I do doubt she's going to die, however, maybe she won't be able to help that much after that situation. I'm torn between her dying and Sakura gets development and her not dying but what about Sakura surpassing her, you know?

[T XD]

Well given her lineage I do doubt she's going to die, however, maybe she won't be able to help that much after that situation. I'm torn between her dying and Sakura gets development and her not dying but what about Sakura surpassing her, you know?

Sakura can surpass her if she's still alive. It's a way for Sakura to get development for Tsunade dying, but she can get development in another way.

In these latest chapters, I don't know why I'm getting confused on some things in the manga *sigh*. After some chapters, it'll be clear for me cause I need some more information. Too many possibilities that none of them are more higher than others.

Edited by T XD, 06 February 2013 - 04:00 PM.

[kirabook]

I don't particularly care about Sakura getting development because someone died (to me, that's similar to Hinata not growing unless Naruto is in danger or death) Sakura should grow on her own. If Tsunade dies, then I guess Sakura would get development, but Tsunade should not die just so Sakura will get development.

I think Tsunade is going to die because her wound (being literally completely split in half in a non-clean cut way) seems impossible to recover from, even for a ninja. Added onto that, she probably has only so much time left, wasting it on the other Kage's just seems to be more proof that her time is up and she has no intention of recovering.

[Codus N]

Yeah, my boyfriend already told me all about it. Out of all of the major characters that Kubo stuck on death's door, he only killed off two of them (the big honcho and Kira, wasn't it?) Somehow Rukia's brother was able to survive yet again, along with his merry band of comrades that were barely clinging onto life. LOL. That turned me away from the series even more. That isn't my only complaint about Bleach, but I'll leave it at that. It'll take a lot of mending to reverse the damage that's been done to that series.

Yeah... but you still have to appreciate the large step Kubo took. Definitely a far cry from pre-timeskip, don'tcha think?? even a lot of readers didn't think Kubo would actually finally have the balls to do it. So, at the very least we should appreciate this.... improvement, if you can call it that.

[Don-kun]

I don't particularly care about Sakura getting development because someone died (to me, that's similar to Hinata not growing unless Naruto is in danger or death) Sakura should grow on her own. If Tsunade dies, then I guess Sakura would get development, but Tsunade should not die just so Sakura will get development.

I think Tsunade is going to die because her wound (being literally completely split in half in a non-clean cut way) seems impossible to recover from, even for a ninja. Added onto that, she probably has only so much time left, wasting it on the other Kage's just seems to be more proof that her time is up and she has no intention of recovering.

Kira I have read Bleach on One Piece, I'm seeing character in a worst death state than Tsunade and without any medical ability.
Tsunade stuff is to raise tension, if she was destined to die, we would of know maybe 10 or more chapters ago or even Naruto/someone would thought about her.
The pattern of a character with the exception of Neji is that they always get this focus from the Author before they die, this is in the case of most side characters, the fact that Kishi hasen't shown the Kages after 18/19 chapters only increase her chances of not dying.

Tsunade --Click here to view--

Then we have this, something that gives me even more reason to believe that what she stated about not dying will be truth.
Kisho choose such a bag moment to insert a joke about Tsunade.

Edited by Don-kun, 06 February 2013 - 04:54 PM.

[kirabook]

Orochimaru doesn't know about Tsunade's current condition, why would he mention the possibility that she's been cut in half if not even the alliance seems to know Tsunade's condition?

I would be more obliged to believe she was going to live if she accepted Katsuya's help, but she declined in favor of helping the other kage. It's a basic sacrificial move. I don't see why her death must be on screen. Of course we're going to see her body before any burial and funeral stuff, but similarly to Gaara, they could easily arrive when it's too late and she's already dead. Yes, Gaara was revived, but Tsunade is the medic nin here, who is going to revive her?

I've also read Bleach and One Piece, but I'm not sure what they have to do with this conversation at all since they all handled death in different ways.

[Don-kun]

Orochimaru doesn't know about Tsunade's current condition, why would he mention the possibility that she's been cut in half if not even the alliance seems to know Tsunade's condition?

I would be more obliged to believe she was going to live if she accepted Katsuya's help, but she declined in favor of helping the other kage. It's a basic sacrificial move. I don't see why her death must be on screen. Of course we're going to see her body before any burial and funeral stuff, but similarly to Gaara, they could easily arrive when it's too late and she's already dead. Yes, Gaara was revived, but Tsunade is the medic nin here, who is going to revive her?

I've also read Bleach and One Piece, but I'm not sure what they have to do with this conversation at all since they all handled death in different ways.

1- Because all important characters die on panel, basic knowledge.
2- Because Kishi not Oro choose to insert a Tsunade joke when the situation with her should be serious since she is about to die.
3- Other Manga is to counter you argument about her current condition, this doesn't apply with fiction.
4- Her refusing katsuya's help is just a way to raise tension among the readers.
5- Doubt it but Hashirama is in the picture, Sakura is available or any other ass pull Kishi feels like creating to save her life.

Tsunade can die or she can live you are convinced that she will die, but I'm leaving it to the Author and by the way he act with her he gives me that vibe that he will allow her to live.

[Chatte]

Well given my knowledge about Tsunade she isn't going to die, being half Senju half Uzumaki. Also, what Katsuyu said about I'm going to stick your body together ag...[again?] made me believe that she was in this situation before.
And killing Tsunade IN battle would kinda suck given the fact she stated "That means I'm never going to die in a battle".
I want her alive but I also want to see Sakura development, independent on Tsunade's death to be honest.

Edited by Chatte, 06 February 2013 - 05:56 PM.

[catsi563]

Nah, I just googled "Sailor Sasuke". I'm surprised there were so many hits for that search...

Neither did anyone, I think. LOL. The likelihood of Naruto becoming Hokage skyrocketed with this chapter. I would really like to see him and the First Hokage together in the same room. I feel like they would interact the same way that Naruto interacts with Killer Bee.
I had forgotten that she was on the brink of death. It's really sad... Poor Tsunade.

like this? --Click here to view--

[quote name='Slextrem' date='Feb 5 2013, 09:00 PM' post='435797']

Edited by catsi563, 06 February 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[Slextrem]

Yeah... but you still have to appreciate the large step Kubo took. Definitely a far cry from pre-timeskip, don'tcha think?? even a lot of readers didn't think Kubo would actually finally have the balls to do it. So, at the very least we should appreciate this.... improvement, if you can call it that.

Yes, it is an improvement from the pre-timeskip. Having everyone survive the Aizen onslaught was just... ugh. I'll give him that, but he created a brand new set of reasons for me to dislike Bleach with what's going on post-timeskip.

It's the never ending pattern that I don't like:
Ichigo fights a new enemy and loses.
He meets a new group of people.
He gets a hax power-up from said group.
He sends the enemy into oblivion.
Repeat.

Over and over and over again... I was officially done when Kubo hinted that Ichigo is half Quincy.

I'm also not fond of his giant stack of characters. Humans, Quincy, Shinigami, Captains, Vizard, Hollow, Arancar, Espada, whatever those new guys called themselves (Xcution, I think?)... There's just too many. He's completely lost sight of the original cast because of the sheer number of characters that he's included in the series.

And I laugh every time one of his characters stop to explain what their attack is and how it works right in the middle of the battle. Even the Captain Commander did it. No wonder he died. That's what happens when you explain how all of your moves work to the bad guys.

I miss the Soul Society arc. The story was so good at that point! It started going downhill from there...

like this? --Click here to view--

That is awesome.

Edited by Slextrem, 06 February 2013 - 08:30 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I'm also not fond of his Kishi's giant stack of characters. Humans Hinata, Quincy Kiba, Shinigami Ten-ten , Captainsv Obito, Vizardv Hanzo , Hollow Danzo, Arancar Ino, Espada Shino, whatever those new guys Sasuke's group called themselves (Xcution Hawk, I think?)... There's just too many. He's completely lost sight of the original cast because of the sheer number of characters that he's included in the series.

And I laugh every time one of his characters stop to explain what their attack is and how it works their feelings right in the middle of the battle. Even the Captain Commander Kabuto did it. No wonder he died is in a comma. That's what happens when you explain how all of your moves work to the bad guys. confess your love.

I miss the Soul Society arc Pein Arc. The story was so good at that point! It started going downhill from there...

Fixed. XD

lol. I have to laugh because this sounds a lot like the same mistake Kishi is doing now. He has introduced so many characters that he lost focus on the three most important characters: Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke. Mostly Naruto and Sakura.

Because of all the characters we have to stop and hear their side of the story. Some characters were good and their story was amazing, but some just...I don't know how it helped the story at all. There were some scenes I found completely unnecessary during this Fourth Shinobi War arc and it has caused the story to stall in some areas. It would have been cool if it was entertaining, but most of the time it really wasn't. It was okay, but half the time I find myself wanting to get it over with.

I am eager to move on and see the Naruto vs Sasuke fight now because I know Sakura will play a major role in it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 February 2013 - 09:21 PM.